18 replies to this topic

[Danail Bulgaria]

I stumbled upon an old theory, accordig to which the people, who live longer - the centerians - live that long, because they do same things day after day, for decades.

 

I am qurious what do you think about that theory?

 

Would it be possible "trainig your body" to successfully perform particular tasks keep you alive longer?

 

 

Edited by seivtcho, 31 July 2020 - 12:51 PM.

[pamojja]

I never heard about. Could you specify this theory a bid further? - It must be particular repetitions, because in general humans do the same things at the same time troughout life.

Edited by pamojja, 01 August 2020 - 11:53 AM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

The author simply claims, that the one thng that repeats through all long living people is a repetition of something, that the person is doing every day for decades.

Centerians are very different in everything else - some drink alcochol, some do not, some eat healthy, some not anything different than the people arround them, who lived less long, some have been sporting, some not. But all of them have had some "daily routine"

That is one of the few theories, that explains why my grand-mother lived to 97. She was having a very non-healthy lifestyle, but she had a very strict routine - in that time wake up, in that time start cooking, in that time take the grand son to the kinder garden, in that time serve lunch, in that time- dinner, etc.

I also noticed that centerians have had a daily routine.

One another long living person - a centerian from my life line, also has had a daily routine of walking on the black sea sand.

One of the very famous Bulgarian centerians - "Grandpa Dobri" had a very strict routine, waking up - going by feet fro his cillage to Sofia (some 40 km by feet !!!!), going to the largest church in Sofia, then starting to beg - at the end of the day, he was giving all of the eaned from begging money for the church or for to the local orphanages - then going back to his village - another 40 km !!!

 

At first glance I dodn't pay attention of the theory, but then I thought - wait a minute - if you train your body to perform successfuly a walk of 40 km then you surely will not die...   

 

I simply started to think if you little by little day by day train your body to successfully perform something despite of the outside circumstances, would this actually train your body to be active, e.g. alive despite of the surrounding factors.

 

Such as you drink, but you trained yourself to perform that despite you have drunk alcohol ...

 

Can simmilarly you trin your body to perform a task despite what do you eat, how do you sport, etc.

 

 

 

 

[pamojja]

I also noticed that centerians have had a daily routine.

 

But in that they are no different from anyone else. A smoker will lit his first cigarette upon waking, a drinker take his first beer, a housewife will take care of her waking child, a laborer takes maybe breakfast and goes to work. A monk does his first meditation. Every day. With differing outcomes.

 

However, I too noticed once a workers routine gets disrupted by pension, or any lifelong routine, it can be a very fast downward spiral. Therefore it rather seems to have to do with having a clear purpose in life, from which a clear routine follows. With routines broken for any reason, the question of purpose presents itself again. And if never solved, might produce worse outcome. Association isn't causation.

 

 

Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good. - The Buddha

 

Dhammapada 122

 

Edited by pamojja, 01 August 2020 - 01:24 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Evryone has routines of some kind. But how many of them stay for life, or for decades....

 

Some routines may be dangerous and shortening the life, some may be prolonging the life. It may be the case the centerians to be performing the correct routines.

 

I am thinking again about the centerians, who have a routine of walking.

Walking is not simply training the muscles of your legs, it is also training your hrart, your blood vessels, the lungs, the production of erythrocites if you wish,

So, ... slowly but surely adapting to maintaining walking despite the environment means to slowly but surely maintaining your heart, lungs, erythrocites, immune system, etc.

That surely may help you live longer.

 

 

 

[pamojja]

Centerians are very different in everything else - some drink alcochol, some do not, some eat healthy, some not anything different than the people arround them, who lived less long, some have been sporting, some not. But all of them have had some "daily routine"

 

I am thinking again about the centerians, who have a routine of walking.

What you said first: "..some drink alcochol, some do not, some eat healthy, some not anything different than the people arround them, who lived less long, some have been sporting, some not."

 

Doesn't exactly correllate with what you conclude now: "..who have a routine of walking."

 

 

Either its any routine - which isn't different from the average person - or known healthy routines. Like having purpose in life, eating healthy and movement.

 

 

Evryone has routines of some kind. But how many of them stay for life, or for decades....

 

Lets see for example some of my out of ethical reason consciously choosen habits.

 

I'm 53 of age: 50% of my life-time with daily meditation practice, 75% vegetarian, no alcohol or drugs, 96% with no own car (=walking, cycling and public transportation).

 

Seems to me they can be quite stickies. But again, couldn't be without purpose.

[Danail Bulgaria]

...

Doesn't exactly correllate with what you conclude now: "..who have a routine of walking."

 

 

Either its any routine - which isn't different from the average person - or known healthy routines.

 

....

 

I'm 53 of age: 50% of my life-time with daily meditation practice, 75% vegetarian, no alcohol or drugs, 96% with no own car (=walking, cycling and public transportation).

 

Seems to me they can be quite stickies. But again, couldn't be without purpose.

 

Yes, that is a valid argument - it either has to be any routine, not a particular routine, or the argument is wrong.... 

 

Besides, sticking to particular routines, that are healthy, lead us back to what we know.

For example the particular routine of walking may mean simply maintain physical activity, and we know that maintaining physical activity may elongate the human life ....

 

Your routines are also healthy. Lets hope you also be a centerian.

 

But then new questions arise:

- Can any routine established by the purpose of life make you live longer?

- May it be that the purpose of life and the length of life are interconnected, and supporting each-other?

- If so, what is the bilogical mechanism?

- How a less physically active daily routines, such as the one of my grand-mother keep us alive?

- Can a less physically active daily routines, such as the one of my grand-mother's maintain the life at all, or it was simply something else?

- Which healthy routines may overcome the bad effect of the other unhealthy routines?

- What exactly bad effects they may overcome?

- Is it necessary to maintain all of the healthy rooutines or only some of them?

- What daily routines may have a cummulating effect, e.g. which may be combined for maximall effect?

Edited by seivtcho, 01 August 2020 - 02:53 PM.

[pamojja]

You should really have asked your grandma and grandpa Dobri. Being in the middle of life, I can only speculate, and be death tomorow. But maybe try to visualize your grandma, her manners and appearance, how she would respond, her facial expresion, and what she would say to your questions?

 

 

But then new questions arise:

- Can any routine established by the purpose of life make you live longer?

- May it be that the purpose of life and the length of life are interconnected, and supporting each-other?

- If so, what is the bilogical mechanism?

- How a less physically active daily routines, such as the one of my grand-mother keep us alive?

- Can a less physically active daily routines, such as the one of my grand-mother's maintain the life at all, or it was simply something else?

- Which healthy routines may overcome the bad effect of the other unhealthy routines?

- What exactly bad effects they may overcome?

- Is it necessary to maintain all of the healthy rooutines or only some of them?

- What daily routines may have a cummulating effect, e.g. which may be combined for maximall effect?

 

She would probably answer from the heart, difficult to comprehend by intellect only.

 

 

There are 2 purposes: 1 is accomplished in the now by whatever you do or refrain from. A prime example would be for ethical purposes. Another is directed to a goal or gain acomplished in the future. Which of the both could give instant satisfaction and contentment?
 

A constant mental perception of lack, in justa-position to one in contentment, will of course release different hormones, autonomic nervous system functions, with long-term effects down the road.

 

 

Taking my no-own-car example, would I have walked only to see the whole world adapt to the same, I would have become totally depressed by now. Since privat traffic and its multi-factoral harm in the 33 years since then only increased manyfold.

 

But mission accoplished for avoiding any potential harm by consciously not driving myself. With every step. Really no need for external oxytocin. In love with every step, or breath. Contentment is a routine difficult to give up again.

Edited by pamojja, 01 August 2020 - 04:59 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

You should really have asked your grandma and grandpa Dobri. ....

 

There are 2 purposes: 1 is accomplished in the now by whatever you do or refrain from. A prime example would be for ethical purposes. Another is directed to a goal or gain acomplished in the future. Which of the both could give instant satisfaction and contentment?
 

A constant mental perception of lack, in justa-position to one in contentment, will of course release different hormones, autonomic nervous system functions, with long-term effects down the road.

 

 

Taking my no-own-car example, would I have walked only to see the whole world adapt to the same, I would have become totally depressed by now. Since privat traffic and its multi-factoral harm in the 33 years since then only increased manyfold.

 

But mission accoplished for avoiding any potential harm by consciously not driving myself. With every step. Really no need for external oxytocin. In love with every step, or breath. Contentment is a routine difficult to give up again.

 

Grandpa Dobri is not from my family He was simply one of the very famous Bulgarian centerians. That was his nickname "Grandpa Dobri". His real name was Dobri Dobrev. He died in 2018 at the age of 103.
 

There is still some sixth feeling that we are missing something...

Just a strange sixth feeling.

[pamojja]

A constant mental perception of lack, in justa-position to one in contentment, will of course release different hormones, autonomic nervous system functions, with long-term effects down the road.

There is still some sixth feeling that we are missing something...
Just a strange sixth feeling.

 

Agree, being not in the habit of feeling content with constantly repeating tasks, but only expecting long-term fulfillments, is the habit most difficult to break.

[Danail Bulgaria]

The adaptations of the human body to perform function despite the existence of certain diseases, that to disrupt that function, is still not well researched in the medicine.

 

For example, there are kown cases of people with more than 80% obstruction of the coronary arteries, who live normaly their daily life and live without any heart damage and without any symptoms of heart failure. Whereas other people with 80 or even 75% obstruction may have symptoms of heart failure, and need an urgent treatment, or even suffer an ischemia, that to lead to permanent heart damage. Simmilar cases can be reported for a wide range of diseases (if not for all), varying from people able to chew with insuficient number of teeth to people living amazingly long with malignant cancers in final stage.

 

Furthermore there are people with bengin slowly growing brain tumors, that are alive even though, that the tumor ahs taken away large parts of the brain. The same portion of the brain damaged suddenly will lead to death. There comes the question how the patient with the slowly growing tumor manages to adapt to the level of leading a normal life with the large tumor in his head.

 

Grandpa Dobri had damages of the bones and the spine, most probabbly rheumatoid arthritis, and was humped. He was walking slowly, but despite that he was able to walk 40 kilometers.

 

May we suggest, that these compensatory powers of the body are being shown when the body is being trined to perform its tasks even though the slowly progression of the chronic diseases?

 

 

[pamojja]

One of the very famous Bulgarian centerians - "Grandpa Dobri" had a very strict routine, waking up - going by feet fro his cillage to Sofia (some 40 km by feet !!!!), going to the largest church in Sofia, then starting to beg - at the end of the day, he was giving all of the eaned from begging money for the church or for to the local orphanages - then going back to his village - another 40 km !!!

 
First, try to discern fact from fiction. Seemingly exceptional people often get idealized, but if one concerns with logic the exageration is there in plain sight. A slow stroll is about 3 km/hr, fast walking about 5.
 
So if this guy walked 80 km each day, and walked fast even while being humped, this distance would still take him at least 16 hrs every day. Either he had inherited enough property for not needing to earn a lifelyhood himself, or he lifed from part of the begged money. But since a day only has 24 hrs, that leaves it with only eight for church, to eat, sleep and beg. All very unlikely, every day for decades.

 

He was walking slowly,

 

In that case the 80 km daily stroll would have taken him 27 hrs. Really miracoulous within 24 hrs
 

May we suggest, that these compensatory powers of the body are being shown when the body is being trined to perform its tasks even though the slowly progression of the chronic diseases?

 
Every competition trainer could tell you: training is as much, if not more so, of the mind.
 
Believe me, every construction worker gets daily 8 hours extreme training of their bodies. But most succumb earlier than other trades to chronic diseases.
 

Grandpa Dobri is not from my family

 
That's why I specifically asked how your grandma would have answered your questions. Which certainly is of your family.
 

But maybe try to visualize your grandma, her manners and appearance, how she would respond, her facial expresion, and what she would say to your questions?

Edited by pamojja, 02 August 2020 - 12:41 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

 
First, try to discern fact from fiction. Seemingly exceptional people often get idealized, but if one concerns with logic the exageration is there in plain sight. A slow stroll is about 3 km/hr, fast walking about 5.
 
So if this guy walked 80 km each day, and walked fast even while being humped, this distance would still take him at least 16 hrs every day. Either he had inherited enough property for not needing to earn a lifelyhood himself, or he lifed from part of the begged money. But since a day only has 24 hrs, that leaves it with only eight for church, to eat, sleep and beg. All very unlikely, every day for decades.

 

 

In that case the 80 km daily stroll would have taken him 27 hrs. Really miracoulous within 24 hrs
 

 ....

 

lol

 

I know, that it is hard for you to believe it, but all of that about Dobri is true. There were sceptics travelling with him to be sure he really walked all that path.

 

He was walking slowly while in the town, but has adopted somehow in much faster walking intercity lol. That is actually part of the things I can not explain.

 

He was living like a rat, but entirely self-sufficient, and he didn't need even one cent more than his retirement pension.
 

He has been investigated from numerous enthusiasts, and he was really giving all of his begged money to church and orpahanages.  He was wearing warn out clothes, most of them made by himself, but yes, he was giving all of the begged money for charity.

 

https://www.google.c...QMygEegUIARClAQ

[Danail Bulgaria]

P.S.

 

i can visualize in my mind my grandmother, gather everything I know about her, but in my own experience I know, that there is a big chance the ansewr to be different that the answer, that she would respond for real.

 

 

[Danail Bulgaria]

P.S. 2

 

Yes, sometimes he was using an intercity bus.

 

But even if not every day walking 40 km, even if it is half the days of the week or even if once a week, it is 40 km!!!!

I myself don't know if I will manage to walk them through without having rheumatoid arthritis and a dozen of age related diseases and conditions.

 

 

 

[pamojja]

I also noticed that centerians have had a daily routine.

One another long living person - a centerian from my life line, also has had a daily routine of walking on the black sea sand.

One of the very famous Bulgarian centerians - "Grandpa Dobri" had a very strict routine, waking up - going by feet fro his cillage to Sofia (some 40 km by feet !!!!), going to the largest church in Sofia, then starting to beg - at the end of the day, he was giving all of the eaned from begging money for the church or for to the local orphanages - then going back to his village - another 40 km !!!

 

P.S. 2
 
Yes, sometimes he was using an intercity bus.
 
But even if not every day walking 40 km, even if it is half the days of the week or even if once a week, it is 40 km!!!!
I myself don't know if I will manage to walk them through without having rheumatoid arthritis and a dozen of age related diseases and conditions.

So first you wrote he walked 80 km a day. Every day. Now you insist on 40 kms a day. Or at least once a week.
 
Similiarly, first any habit. Then a healthy habit like walking only.
 
Why your impossible to believe exaggerations in the first place? - Saying impossible things first, then repeatedly toning down the impossible exaggerations - in the end makes honest discussion of the subject quite impossible. What do you try to accomplish with such repeatedly exaggerated first 'facts'?
 

https://www.google.c...QMygEegUIARClAQ

Funny, looks exactly like a consciouly choosen homeless person here. Though he too was of the habit of walking many km each day, upto 40 some days, his chronic conditions meanwhile completely disabled him from walking much any further. He is still an alcoholic.

Edited by pamojja, 02 August 2020 - 01:35 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Yes, I admit, that I gave different information... that is my fault.

 

I started digging about that man. It is the more I read about him the more the information gets refined. Initially the resources were writting that he has been doing that walk every day. Now, I found a source that wrote, that "sometimes he has been taking the bus to his village".

 

But until now one thing became clear. He really has had many days in his life when he really was walking 40 km unidirectional and 80 km total.

 

On the picture it is him. I posted the picture to represent his clothes. I found pictures of his room and the place he was living. He has doated all his properties to the official church in Bulgaria, and he has been living in a small construction attached to the church in his village.

 

Another thing still clear is that his way of living was really absolutely self-sufficient.

 

 

 

[Danail Bulgaria]

People here may have relaties, who have lived long.

 

I wonder, if you know long living people or centerians were they performing some actions repetedly, and what exactly were they repeating every day? 

 

 

[pamojja]

Apropos walking long distances, 25 years ago I walked the longest, about 1200 km within 3 month with a backpack above 20 kg in West Tibet. Also the Kailash Kora, a circumambulation of Asian religions holiest mountain. One round of 53km, with highest altitude at 5630 meters, took me about 3 days. Every religion walks around keeping Mount Kailash righthand, with the exception of the before Buddhism in Tibet present Bönpo. They do it the reverse. Quite stunning to meet the same Bönpo every day from the opposing direction during my 2 weeks there cruizing his daily circumambulation seemingly with ease.