26 replies to this topic

[caliban]

Since the start of the COVID19 epidemic, research for a vaccine have proceeded at great speed. Now phase 3 trials are underway and it is hoped that vaccines may be available by the beginning of 2021.

For vaccines to succeed a very widespread uptake will be necessary. Given the unusual policy, scientific and health circumstances one might wonder about broad public acceptance.    

 

It is very early days.  As a vaccine comes closer more information will be available and attitudes may shift.

Consequently, you can change your vote after casting it. 

 

 [part of the current featured poll series]

[Dorian Grey]

I became a vaccine skeptic after I started taking the flu shot for a new job (healthcare) and wound up falling ill with astonishing swiftness 3 years running.  Falling ill shortly after getting the flu jab the most common reason cited for those refusing it now.  

 

Wolff, G., 2020. Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017–2018 influenza season. Vaccine, 38(2), pp.350-354

 

“Receiving influenza vaccination may increase the risk of other respiratory viruses, a phenomenon known as virus interference.” 

 

“Examining non-influenza viruses specifically, the odds of both coronavirus and human metapneumovirus in vaccinated individuals were significantly higher when compared to unvaccinated individuals (OR = 1.36 and 1.51, respectively).” 

 

"This translates to a 36% higher risk of getting coronavirus"

 

--------------------

 

The history of ominous adverse events with previous attempts at vaccines for original SARS doesn't exactly instill confidence.

 

Can We Beat SARS-CoV-2? Lessons From Other Coronaviruses  

 

https://www.contagio...r-coronaviruses

 

Efforts to develop a SARS-CoV-1 vaccine have been thwarted in the past by antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE)-mediated vaccine-induced infection aggravation.^17,18 In ferrets, rMVA-S vaccines were successful in inducing a rapid memory immune response, which is an essential feature of an effective prophylactic; but, when these ferrets were challenged with SARS-CoV-1, they developed enhanced liver damage.^19,20 Likewise, in mice, SARS-CoV-1 vaccines utilizing either live SARS-CoV-1 or DNA-based S-protein were able to induce antibody formation and protection against SARS-CoV-1;^21,22 however, challenged mice exhibited Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV-1 components.²³ These results suggest that comprehensive evaluation of target SARS-CoV-2 signatures is required before vaccine trials ensue in humans, so as to prevent organ damage upon viral challenge. Specifically, scientists must identify different viral proteins or anti-Spike sera concentrations which would not induce ADE.

 

---------------------------

 

There is the potential for ADE (antibody dependent enhancement of disease), but the bigger problem is probably Th2 immunopathology.  The potential for antiphospholipid antibody syndrome is also a concern of mine (SARS-CoV-2 has a phospholipid membrane).  

 

The suppression of outpatient COVID therapeutics has shaken my faith in medical science to the core.

 

https://c19study.com/

 

The new vaccines are going to require an EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) and in order to get this, there must be "No adequate, approved, and available alternative".  Any outpatient therapeutic would jeopardize the EUA for the vaccine, so these will not be tolerated.  They're herding the herd into the vaccine cattle chute, & I don't like it.   

 

I'll certainly reconsider getting the COVID jab next Fall if things go well with the launch, but I'll resist the urge to be at the front (or even middle) of the line for any "Warp Speed" SARS vaccine.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 24 September 2020 - 04:56 AM.

[Flavio Ferlitz]

If it is a vaccine that modifies our genome (which many European doctors talk about in a very negative way) and possibly the genome of descendants, I believe that at least people in reproductive age should sterilize themselves after getting it. There is as mentioned the danger of ADE. Furthermore there are many strategies to resolve the disease favoring the immune system.

[Mind]

Considering my age and health status, the risk of death from COVID is extremely low, therefore I prefer to wait a while before taking the new vaccines.

[jroseland]

Great points made here COVID moderation note, Longecity team! You guys have a done a good job of walking the tightrope between respecting free speech and not letting the forum devolve into a disinformation nexus. It's better to be biased a bit more towards free speech, bad ideas lacking evidence can't stand up to good ideas with evidence in a public space.

 

There's actually a pretty simple solution to the quality of conversation challenge online, that arises especially around things like vaccines, make people pay to be apart of the conversation. When forums charge people a reasonable fee ($10/year maybe) the quality of conversation improves - the trolls, and people who don't know how to make arguments go elsewhere. You probably don't want to make Longecity a closed-paywall community, BUT if you're having a lot of issues with moderation charge a reasonable fee to participate in certain forums.

</2cents>

Edited by jroseland, 18 December 2020 - 12:01 PM.

[jakeb]

I'm quite surprised that there is such a high "won't take" vote on a forum where people take supplements based on much smaller trials, sometimes only animal trials, purchased off the internet.

 

[jakeb]

If it is a vaccine that modifies our genome (which many European doctors talk about in a very negative way) and possibly the genome of descendants, I believe that at least people in reproductive age should sterilize themselves after getting it. There is as mentioned the danger of ADE. Furthermore there are many strategies to resolve the disease favoring the immune system.

 

Simply introducing messenger RNA into a cell does not modify the genome. And it most certainly does not modify the genome of germline cells. Messenger RNA is an instruction set for protein production, that's it. 

[Flavio Ferlitz]

Well, that's very nice to hear.

Edited by Flavio Ferlitz, 10 January 2021 - 09:21 AM.

[pamojja]

I'm quite surprised that there is such a high "won't take" vote on a forum where people take supplements based on much smaller trials, sometimes only animal trials, purchased off the internet.

The reason for this most probably is that most here would look at any evidence for benefit or harm oneself, before making a benefit/risk analysis accoding to one's own particular situation. Which can be very individual. Someone with dangerous conditions already might tend to incline to higher risk-taking, than someone without.

As for example this very detailed analysis and excerpt of concluding remarks from a young Swedish MD from the available data on now 3 covid vaccines:

https://sebastianrus...-and-effective/

Ok, let’s wrap up. So all three vaccines appear to be highly effective at preventing covid-19, although both the Pfizer vaccine and the Moderna vaccine are clearly more effective than the Astra-Zeneca vaccine. In terms of safety, I have significant concerns about the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, considering that there is a signal suggesting that it increases your risk of developing transverse myelitis by a hundredfold or more. Future research will have to show whether that is a real risk or not. I also have concerns about the Pfizer vaccine, since there was a 60% increase in severe adverse events among those taking the vaccine, an issue that Pfizer hasn’t bothered to address at all, and I am also concerned about the fact that Pfizer does not provide a detailed breakdown of adverse events, which makes it impossible to see if there is anything in there that we should be worried about. The Moderna vaccine does appear to be safe however, based on the data available up to now.

One final point. None of these studies tell us whether the vaccines are safe and effective for children. It would be unethical to start vaccinating children without first having made sure that it’s safe, especially considering that the risk to children from covid is infinitesimal. The same applies to pregnant and breastfeeding women, people with immune disorders, and people with severe allergies. If you belong to one of these groups, you should probably think extra long and hard before getting vaccinated, because these groups were not represented in the studies, and it is therefore not clear that the benefits outweigh the harms.

Though supplements are not extensively studied like pharmaceuticals in humans, any really serious adverse events are also suspiciouly absent from national toxicological monitoring. Which can't be said of most pharmaceuticals. For example even something as harmless as Aspirin might cause about 60 deaths a year in the US alone.

Something all vitamins, minerals, amino-acids or herbal preparations taken together could never accomplish even in all the years mortality has been systematically monitored from intoxications.

Edited by pamojja, 10 January 2021 - 04:38 PM.

[Xenthide]

Yes, I would take it obviously.

 

These poll results are baffling.

 

I'm not in a high risk category and fully expect I would survive coronavirus infection with minimal symptoms. I also fully expect to survive a vaccine with minimal to non-existent long term negative effects even in the extremely unlikely circumstance that I did unluckily have some kind of reaction to the vaccine in the short term.

 

While the speed with which these vaccines have been produced and effectively approved is new, the overall mechanism by which this has happened is not - neither is any of the science, really. The only difference is that governments worldwide have committed near unlimited amounts of money to expedite the usually glacially slow administrative processes that are the primary hindrance to fast vaccine approval.

 

For the same reason I don't believe in other anti-vax nonsense propaganda viewpoints (eh, did my best to keep this post neutral and balanced), I don't believe there's any reason to think any currently in-use COVID vaccines would be explicitly harmful, even if there had been shortcuts taken scientifically, rather than just administratively, as I believe is overwhelmingly likely to be the case. At worst, the vaccine just won't work for it's intended purpose to induce immunity. It's not going to mutate into the T-virus.

 

Or, I guess, on the other hand it could result in an infection with some form of COVID but this would be such an obscene failure of process that I don't believe this to be any real risk either, although it could happen, just like I might be struck by lightning tomorrow.

[TranscendingSingularity]

I hold it to be unscientific if one argues radically against the vaccine

[pamojja]

I hold it to be unscientific if one argues radically against the vaccine

Ask yourself: Does one evaluating the known risks against benefits, in the context of one's own co-morbitities - and considering the right of informed consent for any medical treatment unalienable - makes one argue 'radically'?

If one categorically ignores, doesn't counter or discuss the science, which showed risks with certain vaccines in the past - put only brings forward meaningless adhominems against - that's what being unscientific actually means.

But these days being bullying seems more favored, than remaining rational and sticking with ethical standards.

[pamojja]

 

Two mice were talking to each other. And one mouse says to the other, "Are you going to take the vaccine?" The other one says, "Are you crazy? They didn’t finish human trials yet."

 

[YOLF]

I became a vaccine skeptic after I started taking the flu shot for a new job (healthcare) and wound up falling ill with astonishing swiftness 3 years running.  Falling ill shortly after getting the flu jab the most common reason cited for those refusing it now.  

 

Wolff, G., 2020. Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017–2018 influenza season. Vaccine, 38(2), pp.350-354

 

“Receiving influenza vaccination may increase the risk of other respiratory viruses, a phenomenon known as virus interference.” 

 

“Examining non-influenza viruses specifically, the odds of both coronavirus and human metapneumovirus in vaccinated individuals were significantly higher when compared to unvaccinated individuals (OR = 1.36 and 1.51, respectively).” 

 

"This translates to a 36% higher risk of getting coronavirus"

 

--------------------

 

The history of ominous adverse events with previous attempts at vaccines for original SARS doesn't exactly instill confidence.

 

Can We Beat SARS-CoV-2? Lessons From Other Coronaviruses  

 

https://www.contagio...r-coronaviruses

 

Efforts to develop a SARS-CoV-1 vaccine have been thwarted in the past by antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE)-mediated vaccine-induced infection aggravation.^17,18 In ferrets, rMVA-S vaccines were successful in inducing a rapid memory immune response, which is an essential feature of an effective prophylactic; but, when these ferrets were challenged with SARS-CoV-1, they developed enhanced liver damage.^19,20 Likewise, in mice, SARS-CoV-1 vaccines utilizing either live SARS-CoV-1 or DNA-based S-protein were able to induce antibody formation and protection against SARS-CoV-1;^21,22 however, challenged mice exhibited Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV-1 components.²³ These results suggest that comprehensive evaluation of target SARS-CoV-2 signatures is required before vaccine trials ensue in humans, so as to prevent organ damage upon viral challenge. Specifically, scientists must identify different viral proteins or anti-Spike sera concentrations which would not induce ADE.

 

---------------------------

 

There is the potential for ADE (antibody dependent enhancement of disease), but the bigger problem is probably Th2 immunopathology.  The potential for antiphospholipid antibody syndrome is also a concern of mine (SARS-CoV-2 has a phospholipid membrane).  

 

The suppression of outpatient COVID therapeutics has shaken my faith in medical science to the core.

 

https://c19study.com/

 

The new vaccines are going to require an EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) and in order to get this, there must be "No adequate, approved, and available alternative".  Any outpatient therapeutic would jeopardize the EUA for the vaccine, so these will not be tolerated.  They're herding the herd into the vaccine cattle chute, & I don't like it.   

 

I'll certainly reconsider getting the COVID jab next Fall if things go well with the launch, but I'll resist the urge to be at the front (or even middle) of the line for any "Warp Speed" SARS vaccine.  

 

I always thought I was alone when it came to getting sick more frequently after flu vaccination. Guess I'm not the outlier that I thought I was.

[Dorian Grey]

I always thought I was alone when it came to getting sick more frequently after flu vaccination. Guess I'm not the outlier that I thought I was.

 

Falling ill shortly after getting the flu shot is the number 1 reason cited by those who no longer take the jab.  It drives the flu shot bullies wild, as they think we're saying we believe the flu shot gave us the flu.  They parrot out their mantra "IT'S A DEAD VIRUS AND CAN NOT POSSIBLY GIVE YOU THE FLU!"  

 

I guess the confusion arises due to "the flu" being a generic term for about any winter respiratory infection.  

 

Wonder if anyone else is making a connection between this year's flu shot season, and the greatest surge of COVID ever seen.  Flu shots in September/October, & a super-surge that began even before the Thanksgiving kick-off to the holiday season.  

 

Holiday gatherings certainly played their part, but was this really the sole cause of the super-surge? 

 

Interesting, the flu shot tends to wear off quite quickly, after just a couple months time.  I recall some actually advising not to get the jab too early, as it may wear off before flu season is over.  

 

Now, all of a sudden everyone is saying "what's going on with the dramatic & mysterious fall-off in COVID?"  Even with the new super contagious UK variant spreading, new coronavirus cases are plummeting all around the western flu shot world, just as the flu shot effect wears off.  

 

Coincidence?  

[YOLF]

I think I misunderstood and that we're actually experiencing two different things.

 

My assumption has been that my immune system was well acclimated to the evolution of the flu virus and other pathogens. Then I get a flu shot and I'll get the flu or other bug in the next six months, and this phenomena was happening to me for about 3 years before I stopped and eventually saw my infections becoming fewer and fewer. So maybe it made a change to my immune response that effectively reduced my immunity. I wonder if it's possible that since I'm allergic to egg, my immune system responds more strongly to the egg protein and learns to ignore the flu as it learns to ignore the allergy proteins in allergy shots?

 

If the aerosol? vaccines every become more readily available, I'll have to give those a try and see what happens.

[aribadabar]

Yes, I would take it obviously.

 

These poll results are baffling.

 

I'm not in a high risk category and fully expect I would survive coronavirus infection with minimal symptoms. I also fully expect to survive a vaccine with minimal to non-existent long term negative effects even in the extremely unlikely circumstance that I did unluckily have some kind of reaction to the vaccine in the short term.

 

While the speed with which these vaccines have been produced and effectively approved is new, the overall mechanism by which this has happened is not - neither is any of the science, really. The only difference is that governments worldwide have committed near unlimited amounts of money to expedite the usually glacially slow administrative processes that are the primary hindrance to fast vaccine approval.

 

For the same reason I don't believe in other anti-vax nonsense propaganda viewpoints (eh, did my best to keep this post neutral and balanced), I don't believe there's any reason to think any currently in-use COVID vaccines would be explicitly harmful, even if there had been shortcuts taken scientifically, rather than just administratively, as I believe is overwhelmingly likely to be the case. At worst, the vaccine just won't work for it's intended purpose to induce immunity. It's not going to mutate into the T-virus.

 

Or, I guess, on the other hand it could result in an infection with some form of COVID but this would be such an obscene failure of process that I don't believe this to be any real risk either, although it could happen, just like I might be struck by lightning tomorrow.

 

They are not baffling, they are LOGICAL. People expect proper SAFETY, not just efficacy, trials before taking the jab like for any other vaccine and such testing is yet conspicuously absent for these COVID vaccines yet the immunization has been almost imposed on the entire humankind.

 

I also fully expect that I will be able to handle a coronavirus infection.

I am not an anti-vaxxer but there is no chance in hell that I will take a vaccine without proper min 2-year safety testing trial. I guess this time it will be a population-sized one 

 

People have been hoodwinked into mass hysteria into taking some half-baked witch's brews ( Astra-Zeneca anyone?) apparently with multiple fatal outcomes in many countries which halted its use, at least temporarily. 

 

Last but not least, let's keep in mind that these vaccines do not make you immune to infection - you can still catch the virus and be contagious for many days you are expected to be just handling it better/less severe. 

Edited by aribadabar, 12 March 2021 - 10:54 PM.

[Karazantor]

As someone who is very much pro-vaccine, I'd put it off as long as possible and initially refuse. Far too many long term safety issues unknown at this stage, and fortunately COVID is almost extinct in my Nation.

 

Sadly, my view is to let others be the guinea pigs.

[AlxM]

Considering my age and health status, the risk of death from COVID is extremely low, therefore I prefer to wait a while before taking the new vaccines.

 

@Mind  Are you still of this opinion of waiting?  Waiting for what exactly? 

[Flavio Ferlitz]

If it is a vaccine that modifies our genome (which many European doctors talk about in a very negative way) and possibly the genome of descendants, I believe that at least people in reproductive age should sterilize themselves after getting it. There is as mentioned the danger of ADE. Furthermore there are many strategies to resolve the disease favoring the immune system.

Please disregard this piece of disinformation I had forgotten about, I would erase it if I could. I'm getting vaccinated now.

[Ames]

I hold it to be unscientific if one argues radically against the vaccine

 

I hold it to be unscientific if one tempers their their arguments on anything, for fear of categorization.

[Ames]

I'm quite surprised that there is such a high "won't take" vote on a forum where people take supplements based on much smaller trials, sometimes only animal trials, purchased off the internet.

 

"People"

 

"take supplements"

 

Your complaint is in regard to a ratio.

 

What is your information on the ratio here of people who take low evidence supplements? None? None. 

 

B6 is not an apples to apples comparison with the jab. 

[Ames]

I became a vaccine skeptic after I started taking the flu shot for a new job (healthcare) and wound up falling ill with astonishing swiftness 3 years running.  Falling ill shortly after getting the flu jab the most common reason cited for those refusing it now.  

 

 

I started having immune system issues immediately after my first tuberculosis test (of many), which continue today. Nine years later.

 

People talk about class issues in the nation. One of the class issues that is widely ignored is being forced to be subject to such tests and vaccinations because you aren't wealthy enough to avoid jobs that require them. A mechanism that we are about to see exerted across all federal employees and beyond. 

[jakeb]

"People"

"take supplements"

Your complaint is in regard to a ratio.

What is your information on the ratio here of people who take low evidence supplements? None? None.

B6 is not an apples to apples comparison with the jab.

The average Longecity user is into much more exotic stuff than B6. We’ve got people ordering what they hope is rapamycin from India. We’ve got people doing group buys of synthesized compounds of drugs still in clinical trials made by gray hat labs.

I’m not telling anyone where their risk tolerance should be, I just had the impression that this forum’s risk tolerance was already so far down the scale that a vaccine that’s been taken by millions of people and is made under strict GMP and quality control would be a like eating gumdrops.

[Ames]

The average Longecity user is into much more exotic stuff than B6. We’ve got people ordering what they hope is rapamycin from India. We’ve got people doing group buys of synthesized compounds of drugs still in clinical trials made by gray hat labs.

I’m not telling anyone where their risk tolerance should be, I just had the impression that this forum’s risk tolerance was already so far down the scale that a vaccine that’s been taken by millions of people and is made under strict GMP and quality control would be a like eating gumdrops.

 

No need to restate. Every single person here knows what you said and were implying. My prior reply stands. 

 

And there you go with your "average" again. That particular habit of cognition / argument may be a type of tick. 

 

What is slightly clearer is downplaying what the vaccine is. But again, I think that was prior implied and understood as your view. Whether or not it is agreed with / persuasive as true by your readers will be up to them. My opinion is that it is a dishonest frame. 

 

And that it is a dishonest frame that participants here on "average" are substance happy mad hatters for whom taking anything is trivial.

 

I would argue that the more accurate frame is that the "average" person here is likely to be trying to solve impactful personal health issues, as carefully as possible, either or both inside and outside of medical supervision. For various reasons.

 

And that a good number of people here, if not the average person (and maybe the average person), see their problematic physiology as more delicate than they do robust. And are therefore more careful than you give them credit for.

Edited by Ames, 31 July 2021 - 07:12 PM.

[Xenthide]

People have been hoodwinked into mass hysteria into taking some half-baked witch's brews ( Astra-Zeneca anyone?) apparently with multiple fatal outcomes in many countries which halted its use, at least temporarily. 

 

Last but not least, let's keep in mind that these vaccines do not make you immune to infection - you can still catch the virus and be contagious for many days you are expected to be just handling it better/less severe. 

 

The link you have provided does not support the context you've implied. A quick search reveals that, as far as I can tell, there are 6 fatalities confirmed to be linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine out of over 6 million people vaccinated. That's a lower fatality rate that COVID itself, for a start, and the fact that it was even flagged in the context of a global pandemic which has killed millions is a testament to the uncharacteristically extreme diligence with which these vaccines are being monitored. For once most nations recognise that this is a global threat to the human species and possibly a harbinger of things to come, and - even though COVID-19 specifically, even with no vaccines in some kind of alternate history where we live in a cruel dystopia would probably not wipe out the human race - in the absence of the suffocating bureaucracy and capitalistic forces that usually determine how much focus is given to the risks of new pharmaceuticals, even a one in a million fatality risk is cause for multiple nations to take immediate action.

 

In the absence of a pandemic, a 1 in a million fatality rate for an novel opioid would be ignored, suppressed, and irrelevant. Fortunately, we do have the luxury of being able to turn down 1 vaccine because we have multiple options available which have an even lower risk than 0.0001%, itself probably a distorted statistic because it contains no information about the age brackets and other factors that make one more at risk. I mean... I'm not gonna bother looking it up but I wonder if that risk is comparable to getting struck by lightning or tripping while stepping off a curb and somehow fatally cracking your skull on a quiet street when the sun is shining.

 

As for catching the virus and being contagious - yes, but if you're even partially immune you suppress the virus' ability to replicate and evolve. If vaccines were 40% effective it would still be a benefit to us - the potential host organisms for a virus that doesn't really want to kill us - if you'll forgive my anthropomorphising of an entity which is debatably even alive, let alone conscious - but it will happily kill some of us in an effort to evolve, spread, and figure out how to infect more of us. Fortunately, the vaccines are far more effective than that, it would be an almost impossible sell to the conspiracy nuts - oops sorry, less informed sceptics - I'm sorry, that's still insulting but fuck it it's the best I can do.

 

What do you think is going on with this vaccine program, seriously? What's the motive for pushing people to get an untested medicine that might kill us? How many people are in on this, how deep does the conspiracy go? I just cannot understand your thinking here, I have a good friend who is also a vaccine skeptic and I can't figure out his thinking either, he's an intelligent guy but... I mean, do you believe the moon landing happened? Humans are not so good at keeping secrets, this is like people thinking 9-11 was a false flag event... the sheer scale of such a conspiracy is not plausible.

 

These vaccines have been developed by teams of dedicated, educated scientists. I know a few personally. Are they lying to me about what's going on? They seem like good, honest people to me, but... I dunno, maybe I'm a vaccine shill too! By the way... what IS going on? What are these vaccines? Mind control drugs? Saline solutions while the Illuminati keep us locked down? Please... explain your thinking here. What is the motive for a global conspiracy, and how deep does this conspiracy go? And again.. what about the scientists on the ground? Are they being paid? Are they all in on it? Is bioscience actually not that hard and it's a carefully cultivated myth that it takes decades to properly specialise in even any one area?

 

Since my last post anyway I've been double vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNtech one, happy to report no hint of T-virus mutations or strange callings to any New World Order kind of groups. I'll update if that changes.

[aribadabar]

The link you have provided does not support the context you've implied. A quick search reveals that, as far as I can tell, there are 6 fatalities confirmed to be linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine out of over 6 million people vaccinated. That's a lower fatality rate that COVID itself, for a start, and the fact that it was even flagged in the context of a global pandemic which has killed millions is a testament to the uncharacteristically extreme diligence with which these vaccines are being monitored. For once most nations recognise that this is a global threat to the human species and possibly a harbinger of things to come, and - even though COVID-19 specifically, even with no vaccines in some kind of alternate history where we live in a cruel dystopia would probably not wipe out the human race - in the absence of the suffocating bureaucracy and capitalistic forces that usually determine how much focus is given to the risks of new pharmaceuticals, even a one in a million fatality risk is cause for multiple nations to take immediate action.

 

In the absence of a pandemic, a 1 in a million fatality rate for an novel opioid would be ignored, suppressed, and irrelevant. Fortunately, we do have the luxury of being able to turn down 1 vaccine because we have multiple options available which have an even lower risk than 0.0001%, itself probably a distorted statistic because it contains no information about the age brackets and other factors that make one more at risk. I mean... I'm not gonna bother looking it up but I wonder if that risk is comparable to getting struck by lightning or tripping while stepping off a curb and somehow fatally cracking your skull on a quiet street when the sun is shining.

 

As for catching the virus and being contagious - yes, but if you're even partially immune you suppress the virus' ability to replicate and evolve. If vaccines were 40% effective it would still be a benefit to us - the potential host organisms for a virus that doesn't really want to kill us - if you'll forgive my anthropomorphising of an entity which is debatably even alive, let alone conscious - but it will happily kill some of us in an effort to evolve, spread, and figure out how to infect more of us. Fortunately, the vaccines are far more effective than that, it would be an almost impossible sell to the conspiracy nuts - oops sorry, less informed sceptics - I'm sorry, that's still insulting but fuck it it's the best I can do.

 

What do you think is going on with this vaccine program, seriously? What's the motive for pushing people to get an untested medicine that might kill us? How many people are in on this, how deep does the conspiracy go? I just cannot understand your thinking here, I have a good friend who is also a vaccine skeptic and I can't figure out his thinking either, he's an intelligent guy but... I mean, do you believe the moon landing happened? Humans are not so good at keeping secrets, this is like people thinking 9-11 was a false flag event... the sheer scale of such a conspiracy is not plausible.

 

These vaccines have been developed by teams of dedicated, educated scientists. I know a few personally. Are they lying to me about what's going on? They seem like good, honest people to me, but... I dunno, maybe I'm a vaccine shill too! By the way... what IS going on? What are these vaccines? Mind control drugs? Saline solutions while the Illuminati keep us locked down? Please... explain your thinking here. What is the motive for a global conspiracy, and how deep does this conspiracy go? And again.. what about the scientists on the ground? Are they being paid? Are they all in on it? Is bioscience actually not that hard and it's a carefully cultivated myth that it takes decades to properly specialise in even any one area?

 

Since my last post anyway I've been double vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNtech one, happy to report no hint of T-virus mutations or strange callings to any New World Order kind of groups. I'll update if that changes.

 

I won't deign this blathering diatribe with more than reiterating my initial stance: I will let the typical testing periods run their course for these population-sized Phase 3 trials before deciding to be immunized with this gene therapy but you do you.