34 replies to this topic

[Starchild]

Is anyone donating blood or plasma for life extension purposes? Wonder if you observed anything good or bad afterwards. 

 

Reference: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice

[Raphy]

I donate my blood every 3 months, among lots of other stuff. Hard to say if it has an impact or not, my epigenetic (mydnage) clock seems to stay at 30 yo while I'm 34 yo so not a lot of difference.

 

In a few months I'm gonna try to dilute 50% of my plasma with saline (and IV vitamin C), I found a plasmapheresis clinic for that, and I'll measure effects on epigenetic age then. Should be interesting.

[Mind]

https://www.longecit...ealth-benefits/

 

https://www.longecit...f-giving-blood/

 

https://www.longecit...m-ferriss-book/

 

Some other discussions on this topic.

[Dorian Grey]

I started donating blood (over 7 gallons of whole blood over the years) in my early 30s and now at age 64, truly believe it has been my fountain of youth.  

 

"Ferrotoxic Disease" is the theory, and iron homeostasis is the rationale.  I've become a bit of a zealot, & have several posts on this: 

 

https://www.longecit...isease-omnibus/

 

https://www.longecit...k-in-longevity/

 

https://www.longecit...otoxic-disease/

 

https://www.longecit...d-with-disease/

 

P.D. Mangan's book "Dumping Iron" is the bible on Ferrotoxic Disease & less than $10 (kindle version) on amazon.  

 

Get thee to a blood bank, & donate only "whole blood" (the iron is in the red cells), but be sure and read my tips on donating (in my posts) first.  Donate in the afternoon, a couple of hours after a good meal, & WELL HYDRATED.  Watch some youtubes on donation so you're familiar with the process.  The needle they use is a BIG ONE, so look away right as you get the jab.  

 

If Granny Bea can do it at age 95:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/n...at-95-1.4624704

 

So can you!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 15 October 2020 - 04:24 AM.

[Starchild]

Very inspiring and informative responses. Deep thank you!

 

My Ferritin was only 41 in the last blood draw. Can (or should) I still donate?

Edited by Starchild, 15 October 2020 - 07:53 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks Starchild, ferritin @ 41 is a remarkably good level.  I like to say when it comes to ferritin, 50 is nifty, so you're right in the sweet spot.  

 

Each blood donation is supposed to drop ferritin by around 30 points, so a donation at this point would put you down below 20, which is considered clinically iron deficient by most measures.  

 

I'm guessing you're female as most males cross into triple digit ferritin by age 30 or so, while in females menstruation keeps iron low until 5-10 years after menopause.  A vegan/vegetarian male might also maintain ferritin around this level through his 20s.  

 

Bottom line...  You're right where you need to be, and a whole blood donation would probably be unwise.  Keep asking for ferritin to be added to your routine labs, and if it ever gets up near 100, remember how to fix this.  

 

Stay young, healthy and beautiful.

[Starchild]

Thanks, Dorian Grey!

 

I'm 42, male. Ferritin was 160 in March. I changed my diet to mostly to salad and vegetable based (meat every 2-3 days), plus started a bunch of anti aging interventions (weekly rapamycin, glucosamine, lisinopril...). 

 

I suspect my apo-lactoferrin usage contributed to lower ferritin as well (not everyday, just for 7 days I think... repeated occasionally). 

https://blog.valerie...verload-part-3/

 

Also occassional quercetin:

Effect on Ferritin: https://www.scienced...965229919300494

Effect on BP: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5015358/

 

My BP came down *very significantly* from avg 140, 90 to avg 125, 75 with half of my readings below this.

 

I was thinking of donating blood i) because of its antiaging effects; ii) to control ferritin, possibly lower BP etc. Not sure if I can at this point

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and expertise!

Edited by Starchild, 15 October 2020 - 11:37 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Very interesting.  I haven't heard of anyone who could drop ferritin by over 100 points so quickly through diet/supplement chelation alone.  

 

Inflammation & infection can spike ferritin higher, so it's possible if you had your ferritin checked while seeing your doc about another issue this might have popped your number briefly higher.  I'll have to look into the chelators again and see if anyone has experienced a similar effect.  Some folks really don't want to try blood donation, so it would be great if the chelators could effectively lower iron.  

 

The more I learn, the more I realize there is much more to learn!  Thanks for the reply.  

[Starchild]

It's kinda scary actually I hope there's no gastrointestinal bleeding or something similar. Nothing I'm aware of, but who knows (my platelets have been elevated for the past few years, for which I'll see a hematologist soon). 

 

I added a bunch of things to my regimen this year. Hard to guess how this happened (weekly testosterone cypionate 100mg, daily oat fiber, aged garlic extract, turmeric, a lot of black tea...). 

Edited by Starchild, 16 October 2020 - 02:23 AM.

[Starchild]

Hi Dorian Grey,

 

I'm curious if you ever measured your epigenetic age (through horvath's or levine clock or some other mechanism). Would love to know if your regular donations contributed to a healthy epigenetic profile (hopefully in some measurable way). Wishing you the best. Thanks for the all the information. 

 

Gokhan

[Dorian Grey]

Never had any advanced testing done, but I've been a lucky dog when it comes to aging.  I eat meat & potatoes, have always drank a bit more than recommended.  Started smoking in my teens and never have managed to quit, though I switched to a pipe & smoke only in the evening since my 30s.  At 64, I have no chronic disease or daily meds.  Hair is still brown (and still there!).  I've never exercised much, but hike the 205 steps up and over the San Diego Convention Center to the waterfront every month or so without getting winded.  Six feet tall & 192 pounds, despite never watching what I eat.  

 

My co-workers were surprised when I retired a couple years back, as they thought I was in my 50s.  Guess my luck may run out, but I've lived a bohemian bachelor life of wine, women & song, so If I die tomorrow I'll go smiling.  I've taken supplements for many years (SAM-e & PPC/polyenylphosphatidylcholine are two of my favorites).  

 

I worked in healthcare for 35 years (Surgical Technologist), and have always been shocked at the young patients with chronic disease that passed through my OR.  A lot of unhealthy doctors & nurses too, that were much younger than I.  All in the genes?  Perhaps, but I like to think donating blood has helped immensely. It's interesting, bloodletting was the most consistently popular medical therapeutic throughout human history, up till the early 20th Century.  Working class people used to pay good money to have a bleeding down at the barber shop a couple of times a year (the red stripe on the barber pole used to mean "we do bloodletting here") Evil humors be gone!  

[Iporuru]

Another study from the Conboys:

Plasma dilution improves cognition and attenuates neuroinflammation in old mice

Our recent study has established that young blood factors are not causal, nor necessary, for the systemic rejuvenation of mammalian tissues. Instead, a procedure referred to as neutral blood exchange (NBE) that resets signaling milieu to a pro-regenerative state through dilution of old plasma, enhanced the health and repair of the muscle and liver, and promoted better hippocampal neurogenesis in 2-year-old mice (Mehdipour et al., Aging 12:8790–8819, 2020). Here we expand the rejuvenative phenotypes of NBE, focusing on the brain. Namely, our results demonstrate that old mice perform much better in novel object and novel texture (whisker discrimination) tests after a single NBE, which is accompanied by reduced neuroinflammation (less-activated CD68⁺ microglia). Evidence against attenuation/dilution of peripheral senescence-associated secretory phenotype (SASP) as the main mechanism behind NBE was that the senolytic ABT 263 had limited effects on neuroinflammation and did not enhance hippocampal neurogenesis in the old mice. Interestingly, peripherally acting ABT 263 and NBE both diminished SA-βGal signal in the old brain, demonstrating that peripheral senescence propagates to the brain, but NBE was more robustly rejuvenative than ABT 263, suggesting that rejuvenation was not simply by reducing senescence. Explaining the mechanism of the positive effects of NBE on the brain, our comparative proteomics analysis demonstrated that dilution of old blood plasma yields an increase in the determinants of brain maintenance and repair in mice and in people. These findings confirm the paradigm of rejuvenation through dilution of age-elevated systemic factors and extrapolate it to brain health and function.

 

Lifespan.io's write-up:

Diluting Aged Blood Rejuvenates Old Brains

[Iporuru]

And one more recent paper:

 

Plasma from young rats injected into old rats induces anti-aging effects

Edited by Iporuru, 18 November 2020 - 07:32 AM.

[Nate-2004]

If you’re gonna donate do try not to use the Red Cross as they’ll waste your time over semantics and take your temperature 4 times with a thermometer and use the worst temperature reading as the real temp. Never use the word quarantine with them because being home alone two weeks with no human contact isn’t quarantine apparently. Despite being literally the definition of quarantine. In other words they will make it exceedingly difficult to donate blood. If I had some way of just removing a unit or two of blood myself I’d do it, but for the next year or so it’s gonna be a nightmare trying to give blood even when they’re begging for it.

My temp was 97, then 84, then 100 then 97. Wtf do they think my actual temp was?

[michael0505]

I donate my blood every 3 months, among lots of other stuff. Hard to say if it has an impact or not, my epigenetic (mydnage) clock seems to stay at 30 yo while I'm 34 yo so not a lot of difference.

 

In a few months I'm gonna try to dilute 50% of my plasma with saline (and IV vitamin C), I found a plasmapheresis clinic for that, and I'll measure effects on epigenetic age then. Should be interesting.

 

 

May i ask how much it costs to have the dilution process you're going to go through done?  Thanks

[Raphy]

May i ask how much it costs to have the dilution process you're going to go through done?  Thanks

Good question, it's 550 euros per session. Here is a bit more context:

 

I found 2 aesthetic clinics in France which have been offering plasmapheresis for years. They claim that it "detoxifies the blood", helps with "aging", "neuro-degenerative diseases including Alzheimer", can help against "chronic fatigue", "skin aging" and "hair loss", etc...

 

Obviously you would dismiss these claims from that type of clinics, except that we now have this study on mice.

 

I have called one of the doctors doing the procedure to get more info: what they offer is not exactly the procedure found in the study:

In the mice study from the Conboys, 50% of platelet-rich-plasma was removed by centrifugation, and replaced with a saline-albumin solution

The 2 clinic offers membrane plasmapheresis mTPE (machines are Hemofenix), which is less efficient than centrifugal. I couldn't get the pore size of the filters they use but from what I understand it will remove most but not the biggest proteins. The solution used for replacement seems to be physiologic saline solution, not ringer lactated (the doc was not clear on that)

In the 2 clinics, you get 4 sessions separated by 48 hours minimum, during each of which you get 800ml of your plasma replaced (~30%). Note that because mTPE is less efficient less of your plasma will be replaced than the nominal 800mL

FYI, the clinics are http://www.dr-sagnar...pherese-68.html and https://medecineesth...e lyon-974.html

 

So this is an interesting anecdotal validation of the Conboys study. I will try the procedure on myself, the doctor seemed open to use 1600mL of fluid replacement in 1 go. I will test my epigenetic age (the various validated clocks, original 2013 Horvath, Grimage,...) before and after.

[tayru]

Russian biohackers repeated the experiment on breeding plasma in humans https://rlegroup.net..._eid=b37eb6a90b

[Starchild]

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing.

 

Translated table <min_opt, max_opt, before, after, delta> from the russian text.

After = 3 days after neutral plasma exchange. 

https://pasteboard.co/JDSYBve.png

[Nate-2004]

 

Good question, it's 550 euros per session. Here is a bit more context:

 

I found 2 aesthetic clinics in France which have been offering plasmapheresis for years. They claim that it "detoxifies the blood", helps with "aging", "neuro-degenerative diseases including Alzheimer", can help against "chronic fatigue", "skin aging" and "hair loss", etc...

 

Obviously you would dismiss these claims from that type of clinics, except that we now have this study on mice.

 

I have called one of the doctors doing the procedure to get more info: what they offer is not exactly the procedure found in the study:

In the mice study from the Conboys, 50% of platelet-rich-plasma was removed by centrifugation, and replaced with a saline-albumin solution

The 2 clinic offers membrane plasmapheresis mTPE (machines are Hemofenix), which is less efficient than centrifugal. I couldn't get the pore size of the filters they use but from what I understand it will remove most but not the biggest proteins. The solution used for replacement seems to be physiologic saline solution, not ringer lactated (the doc was not clear on that)

In the 2 clinics, you get 4 sessions separated by 48 hours minimum, during each of which you get 800ml of your plasma replaced (~30%). Note that because mTPE is less efficient less of your plasma will be replaced than the nominal 800mL

FYI, the clinics are http://www.dr-sagnar...pherese-68.html and https://medecineesth...e lyon-974.html

 

So this is an interesting anecdotal validation of the Conboys study. I will try the procedure on myself, the doctor seemed open to use 1600mL of fluid replacement in 1 go. I will test my epigenetic age (the various validated clocks, original 2013 Horvath, Grimage,...) before and after.

 

 

Something tells me it's not gonna turn out as well as the Conboy study and likely because of the issue you mention. Probably better to just donate blood for now till things catch up. I donate at the local hospital now and they're super nice about it. Can do it every 60 days or so.

 

 

I wonder though, what is the best thing to do post blood donation for this purpose? Eating steak is one recommendation I've seen and the phlebotomists taking your blood will tell you the same thing, but what else? They give you cookies and juice boxes at the donor centers which makes sense because there's a dangerous drop in blood glucose levels. But is there anything more we can do that could be helpful other than lots of water? NAD+ boosting or sulforaphane or something?

Edited by Nate-2004, 08 December 2020 - 01:14 PM.

[Raphy]

Something tells me it's not gonna turn out as well as the Conboy study and likely because of the issue you mention. Probably better to just donate blood for now till things catch up. I donate at the local hospital now and they're super nice about it. Can do it every 60 days or so.

 

 

I wonder though, what is the best thing to do post blood donation for this purpose? Eating steak is one recommendation I've seen and the phlebotomists taking your blood will tell you the same thing, but what else? They give you cookies and juice boxes at the donor centers which makes sense because there's a dangerous drop in blood glucose levels. But is there anything more we can do that could be helpful other than lots of water? NAD+ boosting or sulforaphane or something?

I agree with you in that I'm not expecting much, but it still is an opportunity for more data that I can't pass on. And so I'll report here, whatever comes of it

[escape]

Could daily bloodletting be the reason why hemorrhoids were not done away with by evolution long ago? If bloodletting provided no benefit at all, seems like quite the survival disadvantage. Loss of blood lowers the immune system, and less overall blood volume leaves one more prone to death by exsanguination in the event of a major traumatic injury. Even in modern times, chronic blood loss from hemorrhoids can cause anemia and other health complications.

[VP.]

Biohackers Perform First Plasma Dilution Experiment on Humans

This technique is a human modification of the Conboys' mouse experiments.

https://www.lifespan...ment-on-humans/

[VP.]

The bad news is only gravitational separation works, not membranes. I found this paper:

 

Therapeutic plasma exchange is a blood purification technique designed for the removal of large molecular weight toxins such as pathogenic antibodies and lipoproteins. Plasma exchange can be performed either by membrane separation or centrifugation. Centrifugal plasma exchange is more common in the United States, while membrane separation is more popular in Germany and Japan. The membrane separation technique is similar to the ultrafiltration procedures performed with a standard dialysis machine but in which the membrane’s pores are large enough to allow removal of all circulating molecules while retaining the cellular components. The current availability of plasma separation membranes compatible with CRRT systems has dramatically increased the potential for almost all nephrologists to perform these treatments. This review describes the membrane separation techniques available in the United States, the practical aspects of ordering and operating a membrane separation plasma exchange procedure, and its possible complications.

https://cjasn.asnjou...ntent/15/9/1364

Edited by VP., 22 December 2020 - 09:34 PM.

[Neurocryo]

I donate blood whenever I can approximately every 2 months.

 

I experiment with different bio hacks I think of each time I donate.

 

Most recently I donated whole blood and then ate a small bag of sun chips while waiting and a glass of water.  Then I starved for the next few hours except for coffee.  My logic is that I decreased total blood volume by donating and then minorly stimulated cell division with the snack.  If I have any stem cells moving towards precancerous they will possibly divide faster than normal healthy stem cells.  Then I starve for a while and constrict my blood vessels even more with coffee.  My vascular system will detect an increase in blood pressure due to the construction and the bad precancerous cells in my blood will receive inhibition signals from dividing because the blood stream can only accommodate so many cells and proteins.  This trains cells in the blood beginning to move towards a cancerous phenotype to transiently adopt a halt cell division pathway which I think could be beneficial long term to exercise a cease cell division pathway following an extreme loss of blood and tons of feedback to replenish what was lost.

[AlbertN]

Get thee to a blood bank, & donate only "whole blood" (the iron is in the red cells), but be sure and read my tips on donating (in my posts) first.  

 

When I sign up at the Red Cross two of the donation types are "whole blood" and "power red".   The Red Cross seems to prefer that you give "power red".   Which is better healthwise for the donor?  Dorian Grey,  you seem to prefer giving "whole blood".  Is there a reason for that or is "power red" just as good or better?

Edited by AlbertN, 31 March 2021 - 03:03 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

When I sign up at the Red Cross two of the donation types are "whole blood" and "power red".   The Red Cross seems to prefer that you give "power red".   Which is better healthwise for the donor?  Dorian Grey,  you seem to prefer giving "whole blood".  Is there a reason for that or is "power red" just as good or better?

 

With a power red donation, you're hooked up to a machine that spins your red cells out and returns your plasma back to you.  They actually take 2 units of red cells this way (which the blood bank does like).  The needle they use is smaller than the whole blood donation spike, but you're hooked up to it for around half an hour as opposed to around 10 minutes for a whole blood donation.  

 

I've never done a power red, but my sister did.  She said she felt a bit wiped out (anemic) for several days afterwards.  2 units red cells is a lot to lose in one go.  If your male (or non-menstruating female) and close to or over 200 lbs, a power red might not phase you too much, but I would recommend against this if you're at all slight of build (or menstruating female).  

 

Nurses at the blood bank have told me some like the power red due to the smaller needle.  The whole blood spike they use is rather impressive (about the size of a pencil lead).  I still remember the first time I saw it.  "Oh you've got to be kidding me!".  It actually doesn't hurt all that much more than the smaller needles, but I never knew they made needles that large.  Watch a youtube on blood donation to check it out.  

 

If you're a first time donor, the blood bank usually recommends you go whole blood.  Quick & easy and out you go.  

[Lady4T]

Those of you interested in the topic of plasmapheresis or blood exchange or replacement, might be interested in the work of the French Dr. Rene Quinton. He saved the life of dogs, children and adults by replacing blood with specially filtered seawater (Quinton water is named after him). He was way ahead of his time.

You can Google or YT but unfortunately, most of the available info is in French or Spanish. Here's a good site in English:

https://oceanplasma....s/research.html

 

 

Edited by Lady4T, 26 April 2021 - 04:48 AM.

[Lady4T]

I agree with you in that I'm not expecting much, but it still is an opportunity for more data that I can't pass on. And so I'll report here, whatever comes of it

 

Raphy:

Any update?  Would love to hear if you had it done, how it went, and the results.

[Raphy]

Raphy:

Any update?  Would love to hear if you had it done, how it went, and the results.

 

Hello Lady4T,

 

I've documented my attempt there: https://lifex.networ...-first-results/ (and previous posts).

 

To make a long story short, I physically did not notice any changes, except maybe increased muscle mass, but I am very health and energetic to begin with. Blood work show some potentially significant lowering of inflammation and improvements in lipids profile. IGF-1 is also the highest for the whole year (5 measurements), even higher than when taking MK677, a GH secretagogue. It might be a fluke, or it might indicate some HGH stimulation going on (30 days after the procedure mind you).

 

I also recently received my latest MyDnage result, which is now 29 (chrono age = 34). It is 1 year younger than 6 months previously, but the trend is the same as the previous 6 months, so no indication of the effect of plasmapheresis if any. Keeping in mind a 2 years error margin for that kind of test.

 

Keep in mind that I diluted my plasma with saline only, not albumin. Considering the recent result showing rejuvenation effect on mice with just recombinant albumin, I think I am missing out on something. I intend to repeat the procedure, if possible with albumin.

Edited by Raphy, 26 April 2021 - 02:35 PM.

[Raphy]

Those of you interested in the topic of plasmapheresis or blood exchange or replacement, might be interested in the work of the French Dr. Rene Quinton. He saved the life of dogs, children and adults by replacing blood with specially filtered seawater (Quinton water is named after him). He was way ahead of his time.

You can Google or YT but unfortunately, most of the available info is in French or Spanish. Here's a good site in English:

https://oceanplasma....s/research.html

 

Very interest thanks