100 replies to this topic

[JamesPaul]

People considering buying a Brown's gas machine should consider this FAQ from one of the manufacturer's websites:

 

One cannot get much molecular hydrogen into water by bubbling Brown's gas through it. The oxygen gas takes up most of the space. 

The Hydrogen for Health site's FAQ explains this as follows:

 

Q: Do your inhalers make hydrogen water and what is the PPM [parts per million] or amount of hydrogen they can infuse into the water?

A: All of our inhalers can make hydrogen water with the included diffuser stone. The Pure hydrogen (PEM) machines can infuse between 1.0 to 1.5PPM and the BG inhaler can infuse from .03 to .06PPM. The reason why the PPM is so low for the BG machine is because the oxygen in the gas takes up space in the water thus reducing the amount of hydrogen that and be infused.

 

So it seems optimal to breathe Brown's gas (with a nasal cannula of course, so that it is mixed with air) and to drink hydrogen-enriched water, because they have complementary benefits.

[RWG]

I checked several manufacturers, but I´m concerned about Brown´s gas generators based on cheap Chinese welding machines with wet cell design. I don´t believe that these machines are built with healthy food grade components (for example seals, pipes..) because they were constructed and built in China for welding and not for inhalation.

Therefore, I choose the machines from https://hydrogen4health.com/ which were already mentioned in Post #29 Point 2

This machine, called „H2Life Brown’s Gas therapy machine v3.0“ has a dry cell design and was especially constructed for inhalation and I´m very happy with the quality, the customer service, the easy use and the small size……. I think this machine is really worth the price and you can´t produce such a machine cheaper yourself, unless you don´t calculate your time and effort. With the coupon code „BG50“ you get 50$ off on orders above 1000$ on the website Hydrogen For Health: https://hydrogen4health.com/

 

 

Inhalation of Brown's gas (Hydrogen) and COVID-19

I am still very happy with the my two machines described in the quoted post # 58

My health has never been better within the last 20 years. And I have had no problems with a flu or corona.

One month ago the family of my best friend (all unvaccinated) got infected with Covid-19 and I lent them my second machine. Everybody got through COVID-19 well. After inhaling Brown’s gas/Hydrogen they all felt a quick relief in coughing, were able to breathe better, deeper and had more energy. They had never used the machine before and only had one machine available for 6 people, each of them using it up to one hour per day and then giving it to the next family member. They are aged 18, 24, 26, 50, 60 and 96. It is of course impossible to say what would have been the outcome of their infection with Covid-19 without the use of the machine, but because they felt its support, relief and power, I am convinced it was a big help anyway.

 
 

[RWG]

New Information on COVID-19 and Brown´s gas

 

Combating Oxidative Stress and Inflammation in COVID-19 by Molecular Hydrogen Therapy: Mechanisms and Perspectives

 

https://www.hindawi....l/2021/5513868/

 

[RWG]

People considering buying a Brown's gas machine should consider this FAQ from one of the manufacturer's websites:

 

One cannot get much molecular hydrogen into water by bubbling Brown's gas through it. The oxygen gas takes up most of the space. 

The Hydrogen for Health site's FAQ explains this as follows:

 

Q: Do your inhalers make hydrogen water and what is the PPM [parts per million] or amount of hydrogen they can infuse into the water?

A: All of our inhalers can make hydrogen water with the included diffuser stone. The Pure hydrogen (PEM) machines can infuse between 1.0 to 1.5PPM and the BG inhaler can infuse from .03 to .06PPM. The reason why the PPM is so low for the BG machine is because the oxygen in the gas takes up space in the water thus reducing the amount of hydrogen that and be infused.

 

So it seems optimal to breathe Brown's gas (with a nasal cannula of course, so that it is mixed with air) and to drink hydrogen-enriched water, because they have complementary benefits.

 

Compare #54:

"Additionally, I got stomach pain after drinking hydrogen rich water, which went away again, after I stopped drinking it. I guess, if you have „helicobacter pylori bacteria“ in your stomach and you feed it with hydrogen, this will cause a gastritis and then stomach pain. Therefore, I decided to invest in a Brown´s gas inhalation system. My 85-year-old mother used hydrogen rich water for 3 months, she drank 1,5 liters a day without improvement of her carpal tunnel syndrome and the doctor advised a surgery. Then she started to inhale and inflate a plastic glove with Brown´s gas she wears on her bad hand 2 times a day for 30 minutes each and the pain was reduced significantly within 2 weeks.

Therefore, I´m convinced of the superiority of the inhalation of Brown´s gas (and not only drinking hydrogen rich water or inhaling hydrogen)."

 

May be there are complementary benefits, but may be you get problems by drinking hydrogen-enriched water. Additionally I would only buy a real Brown´s gas machine without PEM for Inhalation, cause it´s a difference between Brown´s gas produced without PEM and a mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen produced in a machine with PEM (Figure 1).
Real Brown´s gas contains hydrogen, oxygen and Electrically Expanded Water (ExW) and this Electrically Expanded Water (ExW) is missing in a mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen produced in a machine with PEM. I´m convinced that hydrogen is good, but the real Brown´s gas with ExW is much better and the machines they use in China in hospitals combating COVID-19 are real Brown´s gas machines too, but without using the name Brown´s gas, compare figure 2 in :
https://pubmed.ncbi....nt=17167:Figure1.jpg]  Figure 2.jpg   30.3KB   0 downloads

Attached Files

•  Figure 1.jpg   31.05KB   0 downloads

[xEva]

maybe a silly question but: how a good rice vinegar is not "hydrogen rich water"?

[johnhemming]

I looked at the electrically expanded water thing.  They made some claims which I find doubtful about extending the range of vehicles.  Is there any independent peer reviewed work about whether or not it is a thing and whether it warrants trying to get that.

 

I do see that there are arguments for the use of Molecular Hydrogen to scavenge OH free radicals.  Machines to generate 300ml of H2 or more are slightly expensive so I want to check this out a bit before just getting one to try it. I would assume most of the hydrogen water machines that are much cheaper don't actually produce much hydrogen.

[Adaptogen]

I would assume most of the hydrogen water machines that are much cheaper don't actually produce much hydrogen.

You'd be surprised. there are a lot of cheap devices on Amazon in the $40-$50 price range that people have tested with H2 blue and get 1ppm+, but it's certainly possible to get 3ppm or so if you go into the $100-200 range.

Electrolysis isn't very complicated and SPE/PEM membranes are being mass produced for pretty low cost.

[RWG]

maybe a silly question but: how a good rice vinegar is not "hydrogen rich water"?

 

A good vinegar contains positive hydrogen ions (H⁺) or simplified protons H⁺.

Molecular hydrogen is H₂ and contains 2 protons H⁺ and 2 electrons e^-.

The electron is a negatively charged elementary particle. Its symbol is e^-.

Molecular hydrogen is able to give away his electrons :

Hydrogen acts as a therapeutic antioxidant by selectively reducing cytotoxic oxygen radicals

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1577

Quote:

H2 selectively reduced the hydroxyl radical, the most cytotoxic of reactive oxygen species (ROS), and effectively protected cells; however, H2 did not react with other ROS, which possess physiological roles.

Positive hydrogen ions H⁺ can´t give away an electron e^- and therefore they are no antioxidant and can´t reduce the hydroxyl radical.

Therefore, vinegar is no "molecular hydrogen rich water"

[johnhemming]

If you are trying to get 300ml plus of hydrogen per minute for breathing then it tends to be harder.

[johnhemming]

I have decided to go for the h2genesys machine.

[xEva]

A good vinegar contains positive hydrogen ions (H⁺) or simplified protons H⁺.

.....
Therefore, vinegar is no "molecular hydrogen rich water"

 

 

Thanks RWG for the explanation!

 

Question to users of this "molecular H rich water": Does it taste sour? Could anyone describe the taste, please?

[Adaptogen]

Question to users of this "molecular H rich water": Does it taste sour? Could anyone describe the taste, please?

My experience is no change in taste, with a subtle change in mouthfeel from the carbonation-like effect of the H2 production in a sealed vessel.

[RWG]

New Information on COVID-19 and Brown´s gas

 

Combating Oxidative Stress and Inflammation in COVID-19 by Molecular Hydrogen Therapy: Mechanisms and Perspectives

 

https://www.hindawi....l/2021/5513868/

 

New interesting video :

Long Covid Symptoms Resolved by Hydroxy Gas (mixed hydrogen oxygen inhalation)

 

 

[Stanfoo]

How much ml/min brown gas are you guys doing? How many hours a day?

[johnhemming]

I have just assembled the Genesys device and run it for two minutes.  I have also run IR/R for three minutes (I did two minute a couple of days ago).   I intend building up both of these.  I have been running varioxia at 20mins high O2 for some months now and also a 10 minute morning session for the IPRGS of bright lighting and a stack of supplements.

[johnhemming]

I don't know whether 2 minutes had an effect or not (it may have), but this morning I have run 0.95ATA O2 for 20 minutes followed almost immediately by 40% power H2 on Genesys (at about 200Hz) for 10 minutes.  I intend to remove the word "almost" in future sessions. The idea is to drive up the HIF activation by creating a clearer distinction in terms of ROS.  I will also increase the H2 to 20 mins.

 

I don't know what difference the Genesys frequency makes.

Edited by johnhemming, 22 January 2022 - 08:24 AM.

[Phoebus]

I don't know whether 2 minutes had an effect or not (it may have), but this morning I have run 0.95ATA O2 for 20 minutes followed almost immediately by 40% power H2 on Genesys (at about 200Hz) for 10 minutes.  I intend to remove the word "almost" in future sessions. The idea is to drive up the HIF activation by creating a clearer distinction in terms of ROS.  I will also increase the H2 to 20 mins.

 

I don't know what difference the Genesys frequency makes.

 

 

any updates? 

[johnhemming]

Its quite difficult to assess.  I have moved the H2 to 20 mins each morning.  However, I don't have a lot of identified health issues to resolve.   My theory of the H2 is that 20 mins will to some extent saturate the body and act to reduce particular the Hydroxyl radical from causing oxidative stress for a good few hours.  However, that can only really be measured in a macro measurement.

 

What I can say is that I am not aware of any negative side effects.

 

It does get quite hard with quite a wide ranging protocol (which in my view is the correct approach) to isolate out the effects of any part of that protocol.

 

A lot of the things I do are in esssence targeted on the mitochondria.  I have moved the O2 to a good few hours away from H2 and Melatonin. That is because Melatonin tends to switch off HIF and O2 is looking for a shift in ROS to enable HIF.   Hence if I go for upregulating HIF whilst serum Melatonin is high and ROS are low that is not clever.   Going for O2 then H2 would perhaps be better, but I like doing the gas therapies early in the morning whilst I am typing things up and doing my morning routine (I am using the H2 at the moment).

 

One hypothesis I have about HIF is that it comes on when mitochondrial Melatonin goes low and mitochondrial Melatonin goes low when there are a lot of ROS to neutralise.   Taking out mitochondrial  Melatonin itself, however, does not stop the antioxidant process as Melatonin is the first anti-oxidant in a sequence of molecules which may allow the reduction of up to 10 Oxidants.

 

I have had a further thought on this.  This approach would work particularly well if the production of mitochondrial Melatonin was in some way linked to the level of oxygenation (the partial pressure of Oxygen).  To some extent, of course, that is true although it also links to the availability of glucose.

 

Mitochondrial Melatonin requires as a substrate Acetyl-CoA which the Mitochondria get from Oxidative Glycolysis.  So if you switch down the Oxygen you produce less Melatonin hence that which is already there gets depleted for clearing up the ROS.  I have no idea how the cells would determine what proportion of Acetyl-CoA goes into the Krebs Cycle and what propoportion is used for Melatonin production and what proportion wanders out of the cells in search of the Nucleus for acetylation etc etc. (and what other things might happen).

 

However, that would explain the response from HIF to an increase In ROS which is not associated with an increase in the partial pressure of Oxygen and would also explain why a reduction in the partial pressure of Oxygen would cause HIF to switch on.

 

What I would say about the machine, however, is that I am very happy with the machine itself and the support that was available although I set it up quite easily myself. (with reading their online documentation).

Edited by johnhemming, 13 February 2022 - 09:15 AM.

[johnhemming]

Further on this reading this:

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/26391197/

 

"The hypoxia-sensitive subunit, HIF-1α, is stabilized in skeletal muscle in response to an acute bout of endurance exercise. However, long-term endurance exercise seems to attenuate the acute HIF-1α response. "

 

Which would explain why small bursts of exercise that switch on HIF are good, but as the exercise continues because the partial pressure of Oxygen does not shift Melatonin comes back up in levels and switches off HIF.  In a strict sense, however, it is the availability of pyruvate rather than oxygen.

 

It would also explain the merits of HIIT.

 

The point about HIIT is that the exerciser depletes the level of Melatonin and switches on HIF so that the cells move to anaerobic energy usage.  However, at that point there is no sense continuing on for much longer as the Melatonin levels will then come back up again because Melatonin is again in balance with ROS.

Edited by johnhemming, 13 February 2022 - 09:27 AM.

[johnhemming]

Adding to this, however, I have just had the results of my blood tests from last week.  Using the Levine formula I have moved from about 56 last May to about 52 more recently.  However, in that I cannot isolate out what aspect of my protocol is doing anything specifically.  Nor can I be certain as to the significance of the Levine formula.  I am, however, now measuring a few more things in order to work out the direction of travel.

[sensei]

My machine produces the gas through electrolysis and does not separate the H2 from the O2.

So, somehow your machine VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. That's AMAZING.

By DEFINITION ELECTROLYSIS

SEPARATES H20 into FREE HYDROGEN and FREE OXYGEN.

If the manufacturer told you the machine magically turns WATER into hydrogen and oxygen gas that isn't separate --

THEY LIED.

[johnhemming]

If the manufacturer told you the machine magically turns WATER into hydrogen and oxygen gas that isn't separate --

THEY LIED.

 

In a strict sense some machines separate hydrogen and oxygen, but then mix the gases together giving 2/3rd H2 and 2/3rd O2.  There is a more complex argument as to whether there is an odd form of gaseous water as well, but I make no comment on that.  

The one I use provides a mixture of H2 and O2.

[sensei]

In a strict sense some machines separate hydrogen and oxygen, but then mix the gases together giving 2/3rd H2 and 2/3rd O2. There is a more complex argument as to whether there is an odd form of gaseous water as well, but I make no comment on that.
The one I use provides a mixture of H2 and O2.

That is physically impossible.

2/3 + 2/3 = 4/3 which is greater than one.


Furthermore, the concentration of hydrogen gas in the studies = 1% to 4%.

At the average tidal volume and respiration rate for adult humans approximately 20 Liters per minute is the volume of air breathed, this equals 1200 Liters per hour. The mass of 1200 Liters of air is approximately 1.44 kilograms. 1% of that equals 14mg of hydrogen.

There are 111mg of hydrogen in a LITER of water. In order to provide a 1% hydrogen feed through a cannula to the nose, a continuous electrolysis of approximately 140ml of water PER HOUR is necessary.

How long does it take for your machine to completely electrolyze 5 ounces of water.


As you can see, attempting to increase the hydrogen in the air in a room to a constant 1% concentration is futile and a waste of time.

I can do the math for you if you like.

[sensei]

In a strict sense some machines separate hydrogen and oxygen, but then mix the gases together giving 2/3rd H2 and 2/3rd O2. There is a more complex argument as to whether there is an odd form of gaseous water as well, but I make no comment on that.
The one I use provides a mixture of H2 and O2.

It takes 16 MEGAJOULES of energy to electrolyze 1 LITER of water.

What is the amperage and voltage draw of the machine you use?

[johnhemming]

That is physically impossible.

2/3 + 2/3 = 4/3 which is greater than one.
 

Sorry, I did not properly engage my brain.  2/3 + 1/3.

[johnhemming]

It takes 16 MEGAJOULES of energy to electrolyze 1 LITER of water.

What is the amperage and voltage draw of the machine you use?

 

I don't know for certain.  Mains is 230 V and I blew a 1 A fuse.  However, in 20 mins it electrolyses more like 50ml, but don't hold me to the precise figures.  It is supposed to end up with about 4% hydrogen in the breathable air.

[johnhemming]

Furthermore, the concentration of hydrogen gas in the studies = 1% to 4%.
 

 

You don't breathe the gas produced by the electrolyser without it being first mixed with atmospheric air.  It uses a nasal cannula.

Edited by johnhemming, 14 February 2022 - 07:48 PM.

[sensei]

I don't know for certain. Mains is 230 V and I blew a 1 A fuse. However, in 20 mins it electrolyses more like 50ml, but don't hold me to the precise figures. It is supposed to end up with about 4% hydrogen in the breathable air.

If it's breathable air as in room volume, it's not even coming close.

A small room is 12x12x8. That is 1152 cubic feet. 4% is a bit more than 46 cubic feet. Hydrogen has a density of .00523lbs per cubic foot.

That is a total mass of hydrogen of weirdly about 111 grams - which is just about exactly the hydrogen in 1 kg of water, or 1 LITER.

Hydrogen diffuses at a very high rate, so it will rapidly flow to other rooms VERY QUICKLY, because normally there is only .00005% in the air - basically zero.

Based on your 50ml/20 minutes, it would take 7 hours to get the room to 4%, not counting diffusion.

Edited by sensei, 14 February 2022 - 08:01 PM.

[johnhemming]

If it's breathable air as in room volume, it's not even coming close.

However, the H2/O2 mix comes out of the nasal cannula into the nose.    

[sensei]

However, the H2/O2 mix comes out of the nasal cannula into the nose.

Are you not concerned that an oxygen enriched atmosphere will INCREASE THE GENERATION OF REACTIVE OXYGEN SPECIES?

"In general, increased oxygen concentrations promote higher leakage of reactive oxygen species (superoxide and H2O2) from the respiratory chain affecting metalloenzymes and DNA that in turn cause impaired growth and elevated mutagenesis."

https://microbialcel...2934-014-0181-5

I think it may be a wash, or actually detrimental to inhale that much extra O2.

AFAIK, the studies used H2 gas not Brown's Gas.

Edited by sensei, 14 February 2022 - 09:48 PM.