12 replies to this topic

[BioInfinite]

So I've had a blood test that confirms mild deficiency, and I have many of the symptoms of deficiency, but I'm unable to tolerate oral Vitamin D3 above 100-200 IU per day which is puzzling as I don't react at all from my skins Vit D production with sun exposure, even when I've spent a long time in the sun without protection. The symptoms I get from oral supplementation are serotonergic in nature, as Vit D upregulates serotonin production through tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH). I have a history of serotonin toxicity so I am very sensitive to this.

 

Does anyone know the pathways of Vitamin D well enough to give me any suggestions?

 

I'm thinking of whether there is anything I can do to hinder its regulation of TPH, or if there is a way to have a slow release of Vitamin D or something that mimics sun-exposure. I've heard of UVB lamps, injections but the doses are usually high, and ergocalciferol (which I haven't tried yet).

 

I have tried:

NOW Foods D3 liquid (in MCT oil, 100 IU per drop)

Source Naturals D3 400 IU tablets (cut into quarters)

 

Thanks in advance

 

[experimenting]

So I've had a blood test that confirms mild deficiency, and I have many of the symptoms of deficiency, but I'm unable to tolerate oral Vitamin D3 above 100-200 IU per day which is puzzling as I don't react at all from my skins Vit D production with sun exposure, even when I've spent a long time in the sun without protection. The symptoms I get from oral supplementation are serotonergic in nature, as Vit D upregulates serotonin production through tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH). I have a history of serotonin toxicity so I am very sensitive to this.

Does anyone know the pathways of Vitamin D well enough to give me any suggestions?

I'm thinking of whether there is anything I can do to hinder its regulation of TPH, or if there is a way to have a slow release of Vitamin D or something that mimics sun-exposure. I've heard of UVB lamps, injections but the doses are usually high, and ergocalciferol (which I haven't tried yet).

I have tried:
NOW Foods D3 liquid (in MCT oil, 100 IU per drop)
Source Naturals D3 400 IU tablets (cut into quarters)

Thanks in advance

What are your symptoms? I have similar issues.

[BioInfinite]

What are your symptoms? I have similar issues.

Destabilisation of mood, depression, anxiety. I know, paradoxical reaction. At higher doses agitation.

I’m thinking, what if I take my Vit D along with calcium and K2? Would it potentially be used up peripherally?

[experimenting]

Destabilisation of mood, depression, anxiety. I know, paradoxical reaction. At higher doses agitation.

I’m thinking, what if I take my Vit D along with calcium and K2? Would it potentially be used up peripherally?

...same.

I don’t take calcium at all, you don’t need it, it’s in all foods.

You can try different carrier oils. I did to no avail.

There’s something about sun exposure that’s vastly different to oral supplementation. It’s a code I haven’t cracked, and living in the northeast with dark skin I don’t know what I can do.

[Qowpel]

Doesn't dopamine have a direct inhibitory effect on serotonin levels? If so, why not supplement l tyrosine?

[musex]

Destabilisation of mood, depression, anxiety. I know, paradoxical reaction. At higher doses agitation.

I’m thinking, what if I take my Vit D along with calcium and K2? Would it potentially be used up peripherally?

 

You should supplement with magnesium if you take vitamin D. Vitamin D needs magnesium at 4 enzymatic steps to be used, and it's also used, along with calcium and phosphorus, to build bone. So supplementing with vitamin D means that your magnesium requirements are higher.  Start with something like 300mg of magnesium.

 

Citrate is very well absorbed, chloride as well and it should be even cheaper. Low magnesium sy6mptoms are: fast heart rate, feeling cold in the hands and feet, anxiety. If it's really bad you also have dangerous heart arrhythmia, nausea, headaches.

[protoject]

Here is what I found

1) magnesium will make me feel worse if i take 400 mg, so I stick to 200 mg and that helps.

2) if I take too much vitamin D and react to it, it's fine if I only do that every few days. (for example my kind of deficiency has 20 000 iu as a better dose, but that triggers wierd anxiety attack things if i do that daily. )

I notice that doing that every once in a while is actually better than taking less daily, though. I dunno why.

I'll update you on anything else, but I find it wierd that you have serotoninergic effects, are you on SSRIs or anything? I don't get anything like that on vitamin D. but I have had other wierd things like if i take it chronically my insomnia gets worse, sometimes i feel like I'm having some kind of anxiety attack/ episode if i take it daily or high dose for too long etc. and it has a specific "I took too much vitamin d" feeling

oh I think beta carotene at night helps, some might argue animal vitamin a, i find that has been a bit too toxic and others agree but maybe if you have a great animal source and not too high of a dose that could balance it out..

honestly I can't remember exactly why vitamin A balances out vitamin D effects nor if that's objectively true but somehow it stuck with me and I do that.
sorry, this thing isn't letting me edit right now, I also meant to mention that I feel far worse on magnesium threonate than I would on say, biglycinate... but i also react to amino acid supplements anything really wierd
I find K2 is an excellent supplement, just be careful with high doses, I think they trigger that same anxiety thing i was talking about, but that's with those massive doses like 10 mg, that's crazy but in Canada here they have wimpy doses like 60 mcg so I got the large dose from USA lol.

[BioInfinite]

Well, I found one I can tolerate, at least much better than D3. I found this D2 (ergocaliferol) from mushrooms (RealMushrooms brand) that I can take 3-400 IU every day with not much side effects. No serotonin feeling, however it is very stimulating for me like dopamine, which could perhaps be partly the antioxidants from the mushroom extract. I can get a bit of anxiety from it later in the day but overall I feel much better. So I have ordered pure D2 in tablet form to see if I can tolerate that even better, I'll report back.

 

Some people on Amazon reviewing the product describe D3 as poison in comparison that couldn't tolerate D3 either. 

[experimenting]

this is the inscrutable mystery for me, why certain d3 shops were life changing and others make me feel worse even though I’m deficient.

was thinking of trying calcitriol directly.

[protoject]

Yeah please do update with D2

 

this is the inscrutable mystery for me, why certain d3 shops were life changing and others make me feel worse even though I’m deficient.

was thinking of trying calcitriol directly.

 

 

Well, I found one I can tolerate, at least much better than D3. I found this D2 (ergocaliferol) from mushrooms (RealMushrooms brand) that I can take 3-400 IU every day with not much side effects. No serotonin feeling, however it is very stimulating for me like dopamine, which could perhaps be partly the antioxidants from the mushroom extract. I can get a bit of anxiety from it later in the day but overall I feel much better. So I have ordered pure D2 in tablet form to see if I can tolerate that even better, I'll report back.

 

Some people on Amazon reviewing the product describe D3 as poison in comparison that couldn't tolerate D3 either. 

 

[BioInfinite]

Time for an update:

 

I am now consistently taking 500 IU per day of D2 from the mushroom extract and I have to say I feel fantastic compared to before. My energy, mood, cognitive function, motivation and productivity as well as sociability and confidence are through the roof! Side effects I was getting at first such as anxiety are gone. I had been suffering from fatigue, mood instability, social anxiety, etc for many years.

 

All these years I thought I couldn't tolerate D3 because of serotonin. And I now have a theory about that - most D3 comes from Lanolin (sheeps wool). I think my brain may have an neuro-inflammatory reaction (and serotonin is related to inflammation and the immune response). I thought this because I recently saw a dietitian who suggested I may have Mast Cell Activation Syndrome or mastocytosis which means the body is often flooded with histamine and serotonergic symptoms can be a result of this disorder. Anyway I am seeing an immunologist about this soon. Vit D definitely does play a role in serotonin production but I think much less than I thought. So does methyl-B12 but I easily have up to 2mg/day for years with no reaction.

 

The pure D2 has arrived but I am hesitant to try it because everything is going so well. I'll update if/when I try it but the bottom line is if you are having reactions or problems with Vitamin D supplementation, I think it's worth to try D2, or the mushroom extract (which also has immune system benefits), or perhaps even the D3 extract from Lichen that can be found online.

Edited by BioInfinite, 20 February 2021 - 11:24 AM.

[BioInfinite]

Just an update that I tried the pure D2 and am now on 800 IU per day with no issues at all for about 1 month, in fact I have less side effects than the mushroom D2. The amazing benefits of the mushroom D2 I mentioned previously ended up being short lived for me, so that's when I tried the pure D2. My mood has been a lot more stable and all those benefits I'd been getting I still get but to a lesser, more stable degree.

 

I still believe that the mushroom D2 is a great product, I am just extremely sensitive to a lot of foods, supplements and medicines.

[kurdishfella]

Are you hairy? that could decrease the amount of sunlight you get and cause skin issues. A lot of furry animals struggle with this. The vitamin d from supplement vs food is different.