14 replies to this topic

[sub7]

Headline is as follows; One dose of myostatin inhibitor bimagrumab results in permanent muscle mass increase

 

and, while there is a touch of sensationalism in there, the hype is rather justified.

 

"People with type-2 diabetes can build up a couple of kilos of muscle mass and lose a couple of kilos of fat, without training or changing their diet, by taking a one-time dose of the myostatin inhibitor bimagrumab. A study by researchers at Novartis has shown this to be the case."

Ergo-log link:
https://www.ergo-log...bimagrumab.html

 

For some background, the drug works through the follistatin pathway and had previously failed a 2016 study. The most recent work was just completed like 3 weeks ago:(Phase 2)
https://jamanetwork....article/2774903

 

In this newly completed study,, the drug was repositioned for Type 2 Diabetes and Obesity...

 

Can this be custom made? It is a monoclonal antibody; would that mean it would not be feasible to custom-produce it in small quantities or has technology advanced to the point that we can even obtain these items?

[Believer]

This would only compensate for the underlying cause of the age-related loss of muscle mass.

And sarcopenia is just one part of the problem. My father has normal muscle mass (is on 600mg T/week) but still has muscle weakness.

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Dynapenia

[sub7]

This would only compensate for the underlying cause of the age-related loss of muscle mass.

And sarcopenia is just one part of the problem. My father has normal muscle mass (is on 600mg T/week) but still has muscle weakness.

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Dynapenia

 

You sure you wrote the above correctly?
I am fairly certain that he is not on 600 mg pf testosterone per week.

[Believer]

He is, 600mg testosterone enanthate/cypionate weekly. Obviously not doctor prescribed, in my country it is literally impossible to get male hormones prescribed no matter if a dog ate your testicles on your vacation to Mexico.

[sub7]

He is, 600mg testosterone enanthate/cypionate weekly. Obviously not doctor prescribed, in my country it is literally impossible to get male hormones prescribed no matter if a dog ate your testicles on your vacation to Mexico.

 

Nobody -and I mean absolutely nobody- should be staying on 600 mg of testosterone per week except for short bursts. Even an exceptionally healthy athlete would be very ill-advised to take such a dose for anything more than say 12 weeks at the very maximum (do some reckless bodybuilders get on even higher doses and stay on for a year or even several years? Yes, of course... and the results are often very unenviable)

I have never even heard of a middle aged or elderly person get on such a high dose unless they were bodybuilding....
Well best of luck with it -I very much hope your dad can avoid severe side effects from this regimen.

[hamishm00]

Agree 600mg T a week is bodybuilder style dosing, and not a good T replacement strategy. You would want to blast and cruise at that level. 

[Rocket]

This would only compensate for the underlying cause of the age-related loss of muscle mass.
And sarcopenia is just one part of the problem. My father has normal muscle mass (is on 600mg T/week) but still has muscle weakness.
https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Dynapenia

600mg testosterone a week is a dose that bodybuilders take on a cycle.... What doctor is their right mind would write a prescription for that and risk their medical license? The feds actively watch for that.

[Rocket]

There is something you can buy now that was found about 6 or 7 years ago and its called tomatidine. An extract of green tomatoes that restored muscle function in aging mice.

That being the case without gene therapy its a losing battle with muscle mass as you age and muscle is replace with fat.

Liz Parrish has had some results with her gene therapy that saw reduced intramuscle fat.

Sarcopenia is multi pronged with losing nerves that activate muscle contraction, stem cell loss, mitochondria dysfunction, growth hormone and testosterone decline and increasing frailty causing people to be unable to exercise sufficiently to prevent muscle loss. There is no silver bullet to attack the entire axis at once.

Good lord 600mg test a week.... You want live for very long at that dose! And I am not exaggerating.....

His RBC count must be so high he is likely going to die of a heart attack or stroke anytime now. Plus his lipids are soaring!!! Plus his testicles likely don't exist anymore and his estrogen and dht is dangerously high. Hello gynocomastia and enlarged prostate.

Edited by Rocket, 10 February 2021 - 02:21 AM.

[Believer]

I think testosterone may have anti-apoptotic effects in the muscles and if consistently normal throughout aging can potentially prevent things like sarcopenia but once an elderly has sarcopenia testosterone doesn't do much to combat it.

Sort of like Alzheimer's and antioxidants

Edited by Believer, 10 February 2021 - 02:51 AM.

[Believer]

As I wrote in my comment, I do not live in the USA. I live in Europe.

 

I appreciate your concern but my father is not mentally retarded and this is his own desire and free choice.

Just as people experiment with potentially toxic research chemicals never tested in humans, he uses testosterone in the dosage he feels has effect on his body. I did not force him and I do not inject him. He injects himself.

 

He has a degree in chemistry and he has worked in big companies including having been contracted to produce tear gas for his country's defense department. He has also held patents for fire extinguishing chemials. He is not an idiot.

 

His RBC is normal. His blood lipids are normal. He donates blood for this purpose.

He has genetic (confirmed) reduced sensitivity to estrogen (like myself) and so is protected against gyno from high T (like myself).

 

He is fully aware of all the risks involved with what he is doing, just as he is aware of the potential risks of using FOXO4-DRI and other things.

 

 

[adamh]

There is something you can buy now that was found about 6 or 7 years ago and its called tomatidine. An extract of green tomatoes that restored muscle function in aging mice.

That being the case without gene therapy its a losing battle with muscle mass as you age and muscle is replace with fat.

Liz Parrish has had some results with her gene therapy that saw reduced intramuscle fat.

Sarcopenia is multi pronged with losing nerves that activate muscle contraction, stem cell loss, mitochondria dysfunction, growth hormone and testosterone decline and increasing frailty causing people to be unable to exercise sufficiently to prevent muscle loss. There is no silver bullet to attack the entire axis at once.

Good lord 600mg test a week.... You want live for very long at that dose! And I am not exaggerating.....

His RBC count must be so high he is likely going to die of a heart attack or stroke anytime now. Plus his lipids are soaring!!! Plus his testicles likely don't exist anymore and his estrogen and dht is dangerously high. Hello gynocomastia and enlarged prostate.

Yeah great, except you can't buy it anywhere. I did find one place that claimed to sell it but they "forgot" to mention how much tomatidine is in it. You don't suppose its just a super low dose super high priced ripoff? No, they probably just forgot to mention it. /s

 

And watch out for loratidine, its apparently just an antihistamine with no hypertrophic qualities. Its not the same as tomatidine

[Rocket]

Ostarine is a good supplement ONLY as long as you eat and weight train appropriately to encourage muscle growth. There was once an American source for tomatidine. No longer it appears. ostarine can cause a little shutdown to natural T production but its pretty minor and you don't run it every day for life.

If you want to stay healthy and not run real anabolic that are dangerous to the elderly than ostarine with leucine and nutrition + weight training is a winning combination.

Really if you want to combat sarcopenia then its best to prevent it while you're young and under 60 or 65 and build as muscle muscle as you can. Over around 65 basically all you can do is scavenge and save what you have.

Edit: I forgot to mention yk11 is supposed to be good and better than ostarine but I have no 1st hand experience.

Edited by Rocket, 11 February 2021 - 02:08 AM.

[aribadabar]

Edit: I forgot to mention yk11 is supposed to be good and better than ostarine but I have no 1st hand experience.

 

I have experience with both - you can feel the muscle growth with both even if you are a couch potato like me. YK11's anabolic effect is stronger indeed.

[Lady4T]

What about RAD-140?

Anyone here has experience with it?

[Lady4T]

Also:

What about Epicatechin? The manufacturer claims "...has been studied to positively affect skeletal muscle growth by inhibiting myostatin and enhancing follistatin."