2092 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

lol

 

https://en.wikipedia..._Health_Defense

 

Children's Health Defense is an American 501©(3) nonprofit activist group mainly known for anti-vaccine propaganda and has been identified as one of the main sources of misinformation on vaccines.^{[1][2][3][4][5][6]} Founded under the name World Mercury Project in 2011, it is chaired by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.^[7][8] The group has been campaigning against various public health programs, such as vaccination and fluoridation of drinking water.^[9] The group has been contributing to vaccine hesitancy in the United States, encouraging citizens and legislators to support anti-vaccine regulations and legislation.^[10][11][12] Arguments against vaccination are contradicted by overwhelming scientific consensus about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.

 

Children's Health Defense claims that the United States government seeks to harm ethnic minorities by prioritizing them for COVID vaccines. The conspiracy theory is elaborated upon in an hour-long video production released in March 2021 by Children's Health Defense and Kennedy, along with recycled anti-vaccination stories about autism, Bill Gates and the Centers for Disease Control. Like other such conspiracy theory videos, it inserts true historical events into its narrative to make its fantastic claims appear more believable.^[1][33]

In step with the QAnon movement, their Instagram promotes the "Great Reset" theory and identifies "Big Pharma" as part of "the real deep state".^[3]

 

 

 

Do you have anything out of a medical journal and actual research to back up this theory or do you trust this organisation? If you dont, that's cool, I'll find some that no doubt debunks it when I come back to work tomorrow for you

 

The link to the peer reviewed and published study was in the article.  

 

https://www.scienced...313647?via=ihub

 

Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017–2018 influenza season

 

Table 5. Respiratory viruses and odds ratios by vaccination status.

 

Virus Vaccinated (%) Not Vaccinated (%) OR (95% CI) P-Value

 

Coronavirus 507 (7.8) 170 (5.8) 1.36 (1.14, 1.63) <0.01

 

Did you miss it?  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 05 September 2022 - 08:41 PM.

[Hebbeh]

The link to the peer reviewed and published study was in the article.  

 

https://www.scienced...313647?via=ihub

 

Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017–2018 influenza season

 

Table 5. Respiratory viruses and odds ratios by vaccination status.

 

Virus Vaccinated (%) Not Vaccinated (%) OR (95% CI) P-Value

 

Coronavirus 507 (7.8) 170 (5.8) 1.36 (1.14, 1.63) <0.01

 

Did you miss it?  

 

From the study:

 

 

The overall results of the study showed little to no evidence supporting the association of virus interference and influenza vaccination. Individual respiratory virus results were mixed, and some rebutted virus interference. Additionally those receiving the influenza vaccine were more likely to have no pathogen detected and reduced risk of influenza when compared to unvaccinated individuals. Further research is necessary to help character virus interference and validate or refute the validity of the test-negative design for influenza vaccine effectiveness.

Disclaimer

The views expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official policy or position of the Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

From the study: 

 

"Vaccine derived virus interference was significantly associated with coronavirus"

 

"Examining non-influenza viruses specifically, the odds of both coronavirus and human metapneumovirus in vaccinated individuals were significantly higher when compared to unvaccinated individuals"

 

"Additionally, the laboratory data in our study showed increased odds of coronavirus and human metapneumovirus in individuals receiving influenza vaccination."

Edited by Dorian Grey, 05 September 2022 - 09:06 PM.

[Hebbeh]

For the ill-informed, rather than cherry pick 2 odd contradictory sentences out of the paper, let's look at what the paper actually says:

 

 

Highlights

•

We examined virus interference in a Department of Defense dependent population.

•

Vaccinated personnel did not have significant odds of respiratory illnesses.

•

Vaccinated personnel were protected against influenza.

 

 

 

4. Discussion

Examining 6120 people with respiratory viruses other than influenza and pan-negative results who submitted a respiratory specimen for laboratory testing to the DoDGRS team, those who received an influenza vaccine had a decreased risk of having other respiratory pathogens identified compared to the unvaccinated group. One study in the United States found similar results [12]. The study found influenza vaccination was not associated with detection of non-influenza respiratory viruses [12].

 

The study finding similar results to our study found no association between influenza vaccination and RSV, adenovirus, human metapneumovirus, rhinovirus or coronavirus [12].

 

The minute differences among the vaccine effectiveness of all three control groups does not support the virus interference concept.

 

Both the unadjusted and adjusted models did not show significant evidence of virus interference in Active Duty members

 

 

 

 

5. Conclusion

Virus interference associated with influenza vaccination has been previously investigated [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12]. However, this study was the first virus interference study conducted among highly vaccinated DoD personnel. The study included a diverse, well dispersed population based on sex, age group, beneficiary category, and vaccination status. Additionally the population size was relatively large, and numerous respiratory pathogens were examined which were not previously individually investigated for virus interference.

The overall results of the study showed little to no evidence supporting the association of virus interference and influenza vaccination. Individual respiratory virus results were mixed, and some rebutted virus interference. Additionally those receiving the influenza vaccine were more likely to have no pathogen detected and reduced risk of influenza when compared to unvaccinated individuals. Further research is necessary to help character virus interference and validate or refute the validity of the test-negative design for influenza vaccine effectiveness.

Disclaimer

The views expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official policy or position of the Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Yes, it appears they had 18 different respiratory virus in their study, and "overall" (on average) there was no statistical significance between flu shot & increased infection.  

 

The two standouts however were coronavirus and human metapneumovirus, and when looked at individually, there was a significant correlation seen of increased infection with these specific bugs and influenza vaccination.  

 

You can spin anything you want out of context (they do mention a different, much smaller/under-powered study where this was not seen), but the link between the flu shot & coronavirus in this particular study was not only statistically significant, but impressive.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 06 September 2022 - 02:26 AM.

[shifter]

Looking at various articles and studies (none as crazy as the 'children's health defense' You can see that influenza vaccinations have little to no effect on contracting SARS Cov-2

 

I cant paste the entire articles here but I advise you to read the whole thing as conclusions can otherwise be nuanced

 

https://www.medrxiv....22278264v1.full

The concurrent timing of the COVID-19 pandemic and the seasonal occurrence of influenza, makes it especially important to analyze the possible effect of the influenza vaccine on the risk of contracting COVID-19, or in reducing the complications caused by both diseases, especially in vulnerable populations. There is very little scientific information on the possible protective role of the influenza vaccine against the risk of contracting COVID-19, particularly in groups at high-risk of influenza complications. Reducing the risk of contracting COVID-19 in high-risk patients (those with a higher risk of infection, complications, and death) is essential to improve public well-being and to reduce hospital pressure and the collapse of primary health centers. Apart from overlapping in time, COVID-19 and flu share common aspects of transmission, so that measures to protect against flu might be effective in reducing the risk of contracting COVID-19.

 

In this study, we conclude that the risk of contracting COVID-19 is reduced if patients are vaccinated against flu, but the reduction is small (0.22%) and therefore not clinically important. When this reduction is analysed based on the risk factor suffered by the patient, statistically significant differences have been obtained for patients with cardiovascular problems, diabetics, chronic lung and chronic kidney, in all four cases the reduction in the risk of contagion does not reach 1%.

It is worth highlighting the behaviour that is completely different from the rest of the data for institutionalized patients. The data for these patients does not suggest a reduction in the risk of contagion for patients vaccinated against the flu, but rather the opposite, a significant increase of 6%.

Socioeconomic conditions, as measured by the MEDEA deprivation index, explain increases in the risk of contracting COVID-19, and awareness campaigns should be increased to boost vaccination programs.

 

This research was conducted this year. Your article was done in April 2020 when the Sars Cov2 was new. Were they comparing it to a common cold but using the context of corona virus to mean Sars Cov2? Dishonest and grubby but I'd expect nothing less from an antivaxxer network whose mission is to end vaccinations of any kind

 

 

Here is another. Currently in Pre Print showing as much as 30% reduction in risk but again, read the whole thing

 

https://www1.racgp.o...-covid-19-study

Recent influenza vaccination was associated with a 30% reduction in the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection by the original virus, before introduction of variants of concern. Recent influenza vaccination was also associated with a 90% reduction in the risk of severe COVID-19, but the 95% confidence interval of the effectiveness estimate was wide. Incidence of severe COVID-19 was rare among those vaccinated, with only one case of severe COVID-19 documented among them.

 

 

Here is another (read the whole thing)

 

https://academic.oup...16/2285/5842161

In this 7-season analysis by the Canadian SPSN, influenza vaccine was protective against medically attended ILI due to influenza viruses, significantly reducing the risk by more than 40%. Conversely, influenza vaccine had no effect on noninfluenza causes of ILI, with the likelihood of vaccination among NIRV cases relative to test-negative controls approaching unity. In particular, influenza vaccine did not affect seasonal coronavirus risk. Our findings provide reassurance against the speculation that influenza vaccine may negatively affect COVID-19 risk. Addressing such speculation is important to maintain influenza vaccine coverage through the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

 

It is also important to understand what it means by RISK. In Australia during 2020-2021, the risk was next to 0% simply because we didn't have covid. The risk was obviously higher in America where it was almost omnipresent. Your own geographical location, coupled by your initial health and wellbeing changes the numbers dramatically. As always - talk to your doctor. Not an antivaxxer network who is known for lying.

 

 

And here is an article discussing living with both covid-19 and influenza together and the best way forward (read the whole thing)

 

https://onlinelibrar....1111/irv.12824

The continued co-circulation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses is expected to present global challenges to healthcare systems. It is important that we anticipate and consider a holistic approach to this double threat, which may present a severe challenge due to a simultaneous burden of both diseases. We propose a series of key recommendations for stakeholders, public health authorities, primary care physicians and surveillance systems that will help to mitigate the combined risks of concurrent influenza and COVID-19 epidemics (Table 1). Maximizing the use of influenza vaccines and antivirals will lead to a reduction in influenza burden even in the absence of similar options for COVID-19. It is likely that the COVID-19 pandemic will lead to novel innovations in infectious disease healthcare, including rapid diagnostics and increased use of telemedicine and contact tracing, which will also mitigate the influenza burden if implemented effectively. Optimal use of these evolving technologies, combined with increased global surveillance capacities, will ensure we are better equipped to deal with future outbreaks of both influenza and COVID-19.

 

 

 

What we can be pretty sure of is that influenza vaccines should not be avoided if you are in a high risk group of potentially having serious adverse outcomes or even high risk of death from infection. If your doctor advises you take it, they know more about you and your body than some charlatan on the internet making money stirring the outrage pot.

 

We have vaccines which combine influenza and covid in one as well - I think the medical experts who have devoted their career in the field know what they are doing. Certainly more than someone who has never studied biology or worked in a lab giving their opinion based on the BS they read on the internet from anti vaxxer trolls

 

 

Honestly, if you guys are going to mark the 'Childrens Health Defense' as 'Informative' and 'Good Point' while actual studies from career scientists, researchers and indisputable FACTS as 'ill informed' then really this site has gone off the rails and into the canyon. Thankfully, most of the world disagrees with your side. Probably because your antivaxxer side lacks any evidence and only clings onto conspiracy theories and ignorant speculations on how you think things work.

 

The real sad thing is, the longer you guys peddle this BS and empower the contrarians, the more children are going to suffer and some die from vaccine preventable diseases because antivaxxers like yourselves are trying to cut the confidence not just for the covid vaccine, but every vaccine. Are you guys are proud of this kind of legacy? "to conquer the blight of involuntary death" should probably read as "to ensure the blight of involuntary death" given the rhetoric here and the people and organisations you give credibility to.

 

Yes. Mark this post as unfriendly lol. The truth doesn't always have a friendly bedside manner. It isn't always popular, but it is always right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

A bit of a dumpster fire of pre-prints and wild claims the flu jab might prevent all known human disease.  Perhaps we should stick to peer reviewed & published material that involve large cohorts and strong signals.   

 

Attempting to bury legitimate science with an avalanche of rubbish data is an old trick, & actually works sometimes.  This is how Fauci & Big Pharma created the current narrative, that produced our dreadful pandemic mortality rate in the US.  Perhaps it will work here too.  

[shifter]

Ha! Says the guy promoting the rubbish and wildly outrageous and affront to science 'childrens health defense'. You want a dumpster fire? There it is. 'legitimate science' lol. I dont think you have any idea what science is. And no, none claimed to prevent 'all known human disease'. This is your nonsense, and only your nonsense claim.

 

Peruse these at your leisure when you learn how to read a scientific paper

https://scholar.goog...ovid risk&btnG=

 

 

Keep on going with your conspiracy theories. The cognitive dissonance is pretty strong in this forum

 

 

 

[shifter]

Serious question

 

Did this mean anything when it was written or was it simply 'lip service'

 

WARNING: LongeCity prides itself on high-quality scientific discussions. Still, as in any corner of the internet, we attract our share of uncivilised debaters and conspiracy theorists. LongeCity has usually a greater patience for ‘alternative’ views than some other places, relying on the social comments system in lieu of censorship. This has cost us dearly in recent years -- were ‘punished’ by some search engines as a place offering at times unreliable health information. But life extension science itself has previously been dismissed as ‘fringe’ and LongeCity does not want to risk blindness to new ideas by overzealous censorship. In this spirit we have  tolerated some frankly fanciful discussions about COVID-19. We will continue to maintain an open mind and moderation policy in this regard -- but what we cannot condone is scientific misinformation, ad-hominem or hyperbolic statements, or idle speculation unsupported by evidence. This is a last and final warning in those directions.

 

 

Where exactly does this forum stand on science and what is considered evidence? I would have thought a lot of the anti vaccine sentiment/promotion here as well as the conspiracy theories surrounding Fauci or Big Pharma would count

 

The idea that vaccines are killing people (eg responsible for SADS) is idle speculation unsupported by evidence. There isn't even any evidence to suggest SADS is on the increase. Well even the admin of this forum doesn't mind this nonsense speculation and seems to support it

 

Dont get me wrong, I'm no fan of 'big pharma' either and they are certainly not altruistic - but if they came up with a shoddy vaccine there is no way it's going to pass. And it's not just big pharma providing the data - thousands of researchers across the world independently study the data. Studies of studies are done by thousands more. And every country has their own regulative authority and does their own research before they authorise for use. Just because the FDA passes something, doesn't mean Australias TGA will. Everything is also batch tested and the conspiracy theory at play here, that 'big pharma' is making a vaccine to kill/injure the worlds population in some 'great reset' nonsense and the thousands if not millions of independent researchers around the world is playing along with it and even taking the vaccine themselves is why you guys look loopy and fringe. Exactly what is the end game of wiping out almost all of the developed worlds population leaving the impoverished developing nations left (the ones unable to buy and administer the vaccines).

 

This site is legit crazy. There is zero issue with promoting the ingestion of C60 Buckminsterfullerene (for example) which is frankly experimental for long term safety and results almost exclusively anecdotal but when it comes to a vaccine which has a slam dunk effective rate in curbing hospital admission and death during a pandemic? Lets empower the quacks. This site promotes a lot of supplements and dosages which have not been tested for safety or perhaps can be quite dangerous (this place is where I learned how about phenylethylamine while taking selegiline afterall)

 

This site should be promoting good quality science and research. Instead you have joined the ranks of the fringe and crazy with the most outlandish and crazy conspiracy theories to date. Given COVID has become one of the biggest talking points of a generation, this crazy stance you've chosen to promote has become your legacy and your antivax stance is what you will be remembered for.

 

 

 

Edited by shifter, 06 September 2022 - 04:33 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

The paper linked to in the CHD story was peer reviewed and published, but I understand why you'd like to keep steering the topic away from this and back to CHD.  You get points for resisting the urge to suggest I try injecting bleach.  

 

I'll let my input stand for now.  There is ample evidence too many jabs tend to compromise normal immune response.  Choose your vaccination schedule wisely, and stay healthy my friend!  

[shifter]

The paper linked to in the CHD story was peer reviewed and published, but I understand why you'd like to keep steering the topic away from this and back to CHD.  You get points for resisting the urge to suggest I try injecting bleach.  

 

I'll let my input stand for now.  There is ample evidence too many jabs tend to compromise normal immune response.  Choose your vaccination schedule wisely, and stay healthy my friend!  

 

Your own paper was not exactly a slam dunk do not vaccinate for influenza for fear of viral interference

The overall results of the study showed little to no evidence supporting the association of virus interference and influenza vaccination. Individual respiratory virus results were mixed, and some rebutted virus interference. Additionally those receiving the influenza vaccine were more likely to have no pathogen detected and reduced risk of influenza when compared to unvaccinated individuals. Further research is necessary to help character virus interference and validate or refute the validity of the test-negative design for influenza vaccine effectiveness.

Disclaimer

The views expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official policy or position of the Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government

 

 

And that childrens health defense was dishonest when it tried to suggest a 36% increase in risk for corona virus in the context of sars cov2 when no such study had been done so early in the pandemic. It also relied on the initial question of the paper (viral interference) and not the conclusion after the study.

 

 

If your doctor advises you get a flu vaccine, he/she knows your best interest.

 

My own doctor did not advise I get a 4th dose of the covid vaccine and I agree. I'm in good health so the 3 I already had (nicely spaced apart) will do the job quite nicely. Not every doctor is a 'big pharma' shill. If I was a morbidly obese diabetic with high blood pressure problems and on immune suppressing drugs, he might have suggested I have a 4th dose several months after a 3rd. There is no one size fits all advice and why people should consult a doctor and not some anti vaxxer network site or charlatans on YouTube trying to make a quick buck with views

[Mind]

Here at LongeCity, there has always been open discussion and light moderation. Anyone can see all kinds of interesting, weird, illuminating discussions for 20 years. Forum users have always read papers and argued about the quality. The usefulness of various supplements is debated. A few people take chances on speculative treatments, while most wait for robust studies.

 

There is no difference with COVID discussions, except that ad hominem attacks have proliferated - which are one of the main areas where moderation is typically used.

 

For whatever reason, there are a select few forum users who are reluctant to have a robust discussion. Anyone who asks any question about the COVID pandemic and/or the COVID injections is immediately derided as a lunatic, anti-vaxxer, anti-science, etc... These attacks should be deleted/moderated, but perhaps it is better to leave them stand in order to inform other forum users who is willing to have an open discussion and who would rather just attack everyone who disagrees with their ideas.

 

One of the main illogical things happening is that if peer-reviewed research is reported by a non-traditional outlet, then it is garbage. When the same peer-reviewed research is reported by a government agency or national news outlet it magically becomes "the science".

 

The large increase in all-cause mortality in several countries during 2021 is real data from real countries (no matter what news outlet reports it)

 

In absolute numbers, vastly more injected people are currently dying of COVID than the uninjected. It is a fact based upon real data from real government health agencies.

 

Natural immunity is substantially better and longer lasting than that provided by the injections. Peer-reviewed published research.

 

The SARS-CoV2 spike protein (no matter if from the virus or from the injection) travels through the body via exosomes. The spike protein :text=With%20a%20size%20of%20180,-terminal%20segment%20%5B11%5D.' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>lasts a long time in the body, accumulates, and can cause persistent skin infection - case study. Speculation, not peer-reviewed, of how the spike protein could cause prion-like diseases, and another deep-dive into this subject. The CDC has removed from their website the statement that the spike protein is quickly and easily removed from the body - you can speculate what this means - maybe it is meaningless - but it is not untrue and it is worthy of discussion.

 

 

[shifter]

Here at LongeCity, there has always been open discussion and light moderation. Anyone can see all kinds of interesting, weird, illuminating discussions for 20 years. Forum users have always read papers and argued about the quality. The usefulness of various supplements is debated. A few people take chances on speculative treatments, while most wait for robust studies.

 

There is no difference with COVID discussions, except that ad hominem attacks have proliferated - which are one of the main areas where moderation is typically used.

 

For whatever reason, there are a select few forum users who are reluctant to have a robust discussion. Anyone who asks any question about the COVID pandemic and/or the COVID injections is immediately derided as a lunatic, anti-vaxxer, anti-science, etc... These attacks should be deleted/moderated, but perhaps it is better to leave them stand in order to inform other forum users who is willing to have an open discussion and who would rather just attack everyone who disagrees with their ideas.

 

One of the main illogical things happening is that if peer-reviewed research is reported by a non-traditional outlet, then it is garbage. When the same peer-reviewed research is reported by a government agency or national news outlet it magically becomes "the science".

 

The large increase in all-cause mortality in several countries during 2021 is real data from real countries (no matter what news outlet reports it)

 

In absolute numbers, vastly more injected people are currently dying of COVID than the uninjected. It is a fact based upon real data from real government health agencies.

 

Natural immunity is substantially better and longer lasting than that provided by the injections. Peer-reviewed published research.

 

The SARS-CoV2 spike protein (no matter if from the virus or from the injection) travels through the body via exosomes. The spike protein lasts a long time in the body, accumulates, and can cause persistent skin infection - case study. Speculation, not peer-reviewed, of how the spike protein could cause prion-like diseases, and another deep-dive into this subject. The CDC has removed from their website the statement that the spike protein is quickly and easily removed from the body - you can speculate what this means - maybe it is meaningless - but it is not untrue and it is worthy of discussion.

 

Peer review is fine, It's a process. It's when garbage sites like 'Childrens Health Defence' slap a peer review article on their site and draw their conclusions from the opening question of the paper, cherry pick data or conflate the stats to mean something out of context etc. I guess they dont expect their audience to actually read the sources or papers. You often see people post a graph on twitter saying its from a peer review article and drawing a wildly different conclusion to the paper itself. But the graph in isolation can make their point. This is an abuse of the research and I always encourage people to read the full paper if I ever cut/paste an excerpt

 

That Cureus one you posted - well it did get peered and the peers thought it was garbage and full of conflict of interest issues.
 

Australia is one of the highest vaccinated countries on the planet and we are not seeing excess deaths. People like John Campbell can get creative with statistics and not use the rate of death but simply use the number of deaths and not account for the increased and aging population but that's not exactly honest. Other countries, well there was this horrific viral outbreak from 2020 - I wonder if that could have trashed peoples health. Given long covid is very well established it's plausible that apart from ruining peoples quality of life, it also ruined their quantity of life. Wouldn't you agree that's possible?

 

Can you even point to where there is an increase in the rate of SADS? Sure there is an increase in reporting - if your local news reported every homicide that happened in your city - like every single one - you might believe there is an increase in homicides. Even if the trend was going down, the increase in reporting gives you the perception there is more. It is the same thing with all these tabloids reporting 'sudden deaths'. They know what triggers people

 

 

In absolute numbers more vaxxed people are dying. You sure got me. Probably because in absolute numbers a hell of a lot more people are vaxxed? Stupid argument. In my city Canberra, ~99% of adults are vaxxed. Yep, more vaxxed people are dying than the unvaxxed around here. What an amazing coincidence....

 

 

Natural immunity is an oxymoron. You have to actually contract the disease to get the immunity. And more than a few million people have either died or ended up with permanent damage. It should not be 'sought after' and given vaccination infers immunity without the risk of infection, damage and death, I'd call that a win. Perhaps the best one is of both worlds. Vaccine to reduce the damage from an inevitable infection and then omicron as your 'unofficial' booster. Not that you should seek to get infected, avoidance is always the best defense. Only a fool chases after a disease. How good is natural immunity when you're left with lungs that look like you've been in the mines inhaling silica dust for years? Or when you have scarring all over your cardiovascular system? Or brain? Or when your fitness is forever ruined? Or your sense of smell/taste is altered/gone? But hey, you got that NATURAL immunity! Good for a few months until the next variant comes around. Yay

 

The tired trope of antivaxxers with spike proteins lingering in the body for years. There is simply no evidence of this and never has been. Just speculation which to this day, has yet to be proved.

 

https://www.reuters....e-idUSL2N2NX1J6

 

What antivaxxers lack is evidence. Just speculation from ignorance. They just roll with whatever sounds scary but have no evidence to explain how they arrived at their conclusion.

 

The vaccine has been injected into billions of people. In some countries like Australia, more than 90% have had it. And had it from over a year ago. If it was going to cause heart attacks or infertility or any other calamity antivaxxers can dream up, it would be happening. So, where is it?

 

 

 

Australia makes a good case study. A population that dodged the initial waves of sars cov-2 and almost all infections have been after vaccines and of the omicron strain.

 

Other countries which may have the excess deaths concerns (eg the UK, America), had millions of the population ravaged by the initial waves of sars cov2 before they had a chance to get vaccinated

 

 

Is that something you'd be curious to look at? Or does your antivaxxer bias have you think 'no! I only want to blame the vaccine. Correlation always equals causation!'

Edited by shifter, 06 September 2022 - 08:53 PM.

[geo12the]

 

There is no difference with COVID discussions, except that ad hominem attacks have proliferated - 

 

 

 

Problem is that people will post something that is either a distortion or not factually correct. One may then invest time to show that what is posted is distorted or factually incorrect. This has no effect on the person who posted the factually incorrect thing. So why bother spending the time in the first place? People will post from clearly highly politically slanted news sources. When you point this out you are accused of politicizing the debate. So why bother? The anti-vax people here are set in their thinking and will not be convinced to open their minds. So why bother?  

Edited by geo12the, 06 September 2022 - 11:52 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

A critical aspect of scientific thought, is the ability to always consider the possibility we may be wrong, no matter how confident one is on a given thought or position.  Without this, scientific discussion & discourse has no purpose.  Whenever you encounter a scientist or scholar who claims to be infallible or incapable of error, you need to take anything he or she says with a grain of salt.  

 

A link to a scientific paper embedded in a rubbish web page should be a good exercise in critical thinking.  Is our mind able to separate the two entities?  Or is the fact it is linked to on a rubbish page automatically corrupt and contaminate the scientific paper for all time and purpose?  The answer to these questions probably boils down to our ability to separate science from politics.  

 

We can do this if we try, but we do have to try.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 07 September 2022 - 02:18 AM.

[shifter]

A critical aspect of scientific thought, is the ability to always consider the possibility we may be wrong, no matter how confident one is on a given thought or position. Without this, scientific discussion & discourse has no purpose. Whenever you encounter a scientist or scholar who claims to be infallible or incapable of error, you need to take anything he or she says with a grain of salt.

A link to a scientific paper embedded in a rubbish web page should be a good exercise in critical thinking. Is our mind able to separate the two entities? Or is the fact it is linked to on a rubbish page automatically corrupt and contaminate the scientific paper for all time and purpose? The answer to these questions probably boils down to our ability to separate science from politics.

We can do this if we try, but we do have to try.

We could be wrong. OK. That courtesy of thinking doesn't extend to ignorant people that have zero understanding making ad hoc claims without evidence that so and so died from the vaccine. Research. Ask experts. Verify the claims. Find evidence. Don't make up BS. Eg vaccines contain microchips, 5G, make you magnetic etc.

As I said, the paper is fine. The research is always good. It's those rubbish organisations that use said paper to draw their own conclusions not expecting people to read them. John Campbell for example, does this a lot. Read his sources one time - if you can follow the science, you'd know his videos are full of crap

By all means question. Ask the experts. But if you don't know anything, don't make up BS and state it as fact

The simple facts are, SADS is not on the rise and the reports of people 'dying unexpectedly' is nothing out of the ordinary. The only thing that has changed, is the frequency of reporting.

The data doesn't lie

[Dorian Grey]

I have only come here seeking knowledge.  Things they would not teach me of in college.  Sorry if I've come across as a preacher man.  I came here many years ago, simply to learn & share.  

 

The evolution of Dr John is an interesting case study.  I've watched him from very near the beginning.  In the early days, he was one of the most buttoned down conformists, strictly educating the narrative, & shunning all non-mainstream views.  I still remember the day the Henry Ford study on hydroxychloroquine came out, and he was bold enough to question the demonization of the forbidden fruit.  He appeared quite perplexed, like a doting husband who had suddenly discovered his wife had been cheating on him for many years, and his conformist philosophy was never quite the same after that.  He's been totally immersed in all things COVID from the beginning, and I have learned much from him.  Don't know that it is wise to dismiss him too lightly. 

 

I'll close with some preachy-teachy thoughts on communication.  I confess, I have not spent hours combing through the data dumps that have appeared over the last couple pages here, and I doubt many other have either.  I've learned to pick cherries from the data I do comb through, and add a few powerful quotes from legitimate research as the most effective means of communicating my thoughts and ideas.  Human attention spans have been shrinking over the years, and anything more than a few paragraphs is likely to get bypassed.  In the spirit of brevity, I'll leave it here for now.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 07 September 2022 - 04:05 PM.

[joesixpack]

Hi Dorian, I enjoy your posts and thank you for your thoughtful discussions about issues we care about.

 

This clown that seems to have nothing to offer except vitriol about your reasoned observations, seems to be, a useless shill. Maybe a paid shill. The going rate for these shills seems to be $3.50 for a post. No source on this from this site, but many sources exist for this issue. It might explain the multiple walls of print that he/she have been putting out. They are definitely out there, especially about the experimental vaccines for Covid 19.

 

There is no doubt that this is an experimental vaccine, including the new variant vaccine, that has no trials regarding effectiveness, or safety.

 

The first hint that it is a dangerous, and experimental vaccine is the government action to prevent any legal action against the pharmaceutical companies for injuries caused by the vaccine. This happened with the 1976 swine flu vaccine (which was canceled after far less reports of injuries)  and this Covid 19 vaccine, which has far more reports of injury.

 

I took the experimental vaccine, both of them. I now wish I had not. I got pneumonia within 4 months of my second dose of the vaccine. Immune system malfunction.

 

Now they are saying boosters, either 3 or 6 months and yearly new vaccines, that they admit do not prevent infection, or transmission of the virus. Really? Take something every 3 months that does not prevent infections, or transmission? Why? Because I am an idiot?

 

I take vaccines that work. I do not take the vaccines that do not work.

 

Also, my advice is, do not feed the trolls. You just get never ending useless exchanges that go nowhere.

 

That is all.

 

Thanks again for your contributions.

 

 

 

 

[shifter]

I have only come here seeking knowledge.  Things they would not teach me of in college.  Sorry if I've come across as a preacher man.  I came here many years ago, simply to learn & share.  

 

The evolution of Dr John is an interesting case study.  I've watched him from very near the beginning.  In the early days, he was one of the most buttoned down conformists, strictly educating the narrative, & shunning all non-mainstream views.  I still remember the day the Henry Ford study on hydroxychloroquine came out, and he was bold enough to question the demonization of the forbidden fruit.  He appeared quite perplexed, like a doting husband who had suddenly discovered his wife had been cheating on him for many years, and his conformist philosophy was never quite the same after that.  He's been totally immersed in all things COVID from the beginning, and I have learned much from him.  Don't know that it is wise to dismiss him too lightly. 

 

I'll close with some preachy-teachy thoughts on communication.  I confess, I have not spent hours combing through the data dumps that have appeared over the last couple pages here, and I doubt many other have either.  I've learned to pick cherries from the data I do comb through, and add a few powerful quotes from legitimate research as the most effective means of communicating my thoughts and ideas.  Human attention spans have been shrinking over the years, and anything more than a few paragraphs is likely to get bypassed.  In the spirit of brevity, I'll leave it here for now.  

 

John Campbell started off being pretty good and he used to say 'conspiracy theories do no good in the health care system and people should stick to the facts'. I agree. Sadly, he lost his way as he seems to post a hell of a lot of conspiratorial videos, ad hoc speculations and misinformation (whether through ignorance or deliberate)

 

His video about excess deaths in Australia for one was BS and he would have been educated enough to realise it. He used the total number of deaths (not rate of deaths) from 2015-2019 and compared it to today. He did not account for an aging and increased population just so he could spin that Australia had an excess death problem. Except, when you took the increased population and aged population into account, we had no excess deaths. We did have a bump in excess deaths in 2017, during a bad flu year - before the vaccines lol.

 

One of his more recent videos about the UK advice on pregnancy and confusion was also bogus and easily debunked. Just look at the date he said the new information was from - it was older lol.  His video that got taken down was utter nonsense and to date, I dont believe he has acknowledged the ivermectin trial that showed it doesn't work. Given its importance and implication and his usual video topics, why wouldn't he?

 

Another video he did attempted to say that the vaccine had over 1200 adverse effects - except this was BS because that was a list of effects the researchers look out for. When he got hammered in the comments for being utterly wrong he made a video correcting that at least but it goes to show that he doesn't understand, doesn't read or outright misinforms his viewers. I'm not saying dont watch his channel, I watch it, but I take what he says with a grain of salt and check the sources he provides. Too many people use 'well I put sources in there so it must be legit' expecting the audience to never bother to double check and instead rely on the commentators spin

[shifter]

Hi Dorian, I enjoy your posts and thank you for your thoughtful discussions about issues we care about.

 

This clown that seems to have nothing to offer except vitriol about your reasoned observations, seems to be, a useless shill. Maybe a paid shill. The going rate for these shills seems to be $3.50 for a post. No source on this from this site, but many sources exist for this issue. It might explain the multiple walls of print that he/she have been putting out. They are definitely out there, especially about the experimental vaccines for Covid 19.

 

There is no doubt that this is an experimental vaccine, including the new variant vaccine, that has no trials regarding effectiveness, or safety.

 

The first hint that it is a dangerous, and experimental vaccine is the government action to prevent any legal action against the pharmaceutical companies for injuries caused by the vaccine. This happened with the 1976 swine flu vaccine (which was canceled after far less reports of injuries)  and this Covid 19 vaccine, which has far more reports of injury.

 

I took the experimental vaccine, both of them. I now wish I had not. I got pneumonia within 4 months of my second dose of the vaccine. Immune system malfunction.

 

Now they are saying boosters, either 3 or 6 months and yearly new vaccines, that they admit do not prevent infection, or transmission of the virus. Really? Take something every 3 months that does not prevent infections, or transmission? Why? Because I am an idiot?

 

I take vaccines that work. I do not take the vaccines that do not work.

 

Also, my advice is, do not feed the trolls. You just get never ending useless exchanges that go nowhere.

 

That is all.

 

Thanks again for your contributions.

 

Thanks for the laugh - but maybe I shouldn't. Cognitive dissonance is not very nice to have.

 

Thanks for confirming just how fringe and loopy this site has become. Despite the facade of this organisation seemingly into science and research, it really is just another place that takes a steaming dump on actual science and research

 

So did the vaccine make you magnetic? Improve your 5G reception? Alter your genes and rewrite your DNA? Implant a microchip inside you? Maybe these are the talking points more fit for a place like this

 

After my vaccine, anecdotally, my 5G reception improved. I don't think it was because afterwards I had bought a new phone that had 5G capability. That couldn't be it

[Mind]

Thanks for the laugh - but maybe I shouldn't. Cognitive dissonance is not very nice to have.

 

Thanks for confirming just how fringe and loopy this site has become. Despite the facade of this organisation seemingly into science and research, it really is just another place that takes a steaming dump on actual science and research

 

So did the vaccine make you magnetic? Improve your 5G reception? Alter your genes and rewrite your DNA? Implant a microchip inside you? Maybe these are the talking points more fit for a place like this

 

After my vaccine, anecdotally, my 5G reception improved. I don't think it was because afterwards I had bought a new phone that had 5G capability. That couldn't be it

 

These are normally ban-able offenses in the forum.

 

People have been discussing the vaccine data and research back and forth. The data should speak for itself. A couple of posters feel the need to constantly denigrate anyone and everyone who disagrees with them. This is disturbing. Almost all other discussions about treatments and supplements have disagreements....without such constant insults.

 

In Australia, people are dying of COVID at a clip of 100 per day or greater recently. If the COVID injections were similar to past vaccines, almost no one would be dying of the disease. These new injections are not all that great. They don't prevent infection. They don't prevent transmission. Injected people also stay infectious for longer. Injected people still get sick. In fact, everyone I know who got the injections all got symptomatic COVID (only 1 had to go to the hospital, as far as I know). The injections impact male fertility (peer-reviewed research)

 

There has got to be something better. We should push for something better.

[shifter]

These are normally ban-able offenses in the forum.

 

People have been discussing the vaccine data and research back and forth. The data should speak for itself. A couple of posters feel the need to constantly denigrate anyone and everyone who disagrees with them. This is disturbing. Almost all other discussions about treatments and supplements have disagreements....without such constant insults.

 

In Australia, people are dying of COVID at a clip of 100 per day or greater recently. If the COVID injections were similar to past vaccines, almost no one would be dying of the disease. These new injections are not all that great. They don't prevent infection. They don't prevent transmission. Injected people also stay infectious for longer. Injected people still get sick. In fact, everyone I know who got the injections all got symptomatic COVID (only 1 had to go to the hospital, as far as I know). The injections impact male fertility (peer-reviewed research)

 

There has got to be something better. We should push for something better.

 

If I had made no prior comments in this thread and my first post was 'my 5G seems better' or 'fridge magnets stick on me' or 'I notice more grey hairs since the vaccine', you guys would be patting my back. Of course, that is jest but it is no more silly than saying the vaccines are culling the human race

 

As for your male fertility, maybe read the conclusion in that paper

 

Systemic immune response after BNT162b2 vaccine is a reasonable cause for transient semen concentration and TMC decline. Long-term prognosis remains good.

 

It is no surprise that an immune response has an impact. That's the immune system for you.  But as there is no real infection or disease, there is no damage. I'd be more concerned about using laptop computers on your lap or warm phones in your pocket. That we do know is affecting sperm counts and motility. Our 21st century lifestyle is not kind to our sperm. Do you want to know what can damage male (and female) fertility? An actual covid infection.

 

'symptomatic covid' after a vaccine is simply an immune response. It is not the disease. It is your immune system doing it's job. Your cells aren't being destroyed by the millions from a virus. Your organs aren't getting perma scarred in a cytokine storm. Honestly I was kind of disappointed when I had my vaccines that all I got was a sore arm. When I had a flu vaccine several years ago, I had the works! Muscle aches, cold shivers, nausea and fatigue. Everything except throwing up and a fever. If it were a covid vaccine, that would all get reported from the SMS they sent out to everyone who got vaxxed. Do you think I reported all those events after the flu vaccine? Did anyone ask? Did anyone care?

 

As for Australian deaths, just compare our 2022 results at a rate per 100K vs America during 2020 per 100K. Our deaths would be much higher had there been no vaccine program. No matter how you try to spin in, unvaccinated individuals end up in hospital and die at far higher rates than vaccinated individuals.

 

 

Every data set is like this. How do you call that a fail? Otherwise, find me one that doesn't. That's a slam dunk the vaccines have prevented deaths and hospital admissions and covid damage. If you are suggesting ALL the data sets are falsified to push the vaccine than that is an outlandish conspiracy theory even more ridiculous than saying fridge magnets stick to me (hint: you can get them to stick if you are a little sweaty)

 

So even though Australia has covid deaths, they are clearly far lower than if we never got vaccinated and we employed a 'let her rip' strategy with the virus.

 

Australia has met the target for 95% 16 years and over being fully vaccinated. We also dont have an unexplained excess death problem. So where does that leave your hypothesis? You know what one difference Australia had compared to America or Europe? We weren't ravaged by covid infections before vaccines existed. 

 

I'm all for research. But you cant make up a conclusion before the research begins.

 

If you are going to ask yourself if the vaccines are to blame for SADS, you must also ask whether the covid infection could play a role. Why doesn't a single antivaxxer seem to consider the possibility that the millions afflicted with covid before vaccines could play a role? Do you consider it? Do you think more research into long covid and covid damage is a good idea?

 

We have looked at the vaccines. And we continue to look at the vaccines. There hasn't been a vaccine more widely looked at or studied or scrutinized by researchers around the world and I'm all for it. But statements purported as fact should be backed up by evidence.  Unless you think there is a world wide conspiracy at play the consensus is they are not killing people months to years later.

 

My money would be on those that had severe cases and long covid being a cause for premature / untimely death. But before I state that as a fact, I'd be keen for research into long covid to study that

[Mind]

 

 

If you are suggesting ALL the data sets are falsified to push the vaccine than that is an outlandish conspiracy theory

 

This is not the case, but there is enough evidence to be skeptical of some of the data. This began when 2020 COVID deaths were wildly overcounted in the U.S. (and possibly much of the world). Continued with leading health agencies hiding data on multiple occasions, making false statements, and colluding behind the scenes to squelch any alternative data, treatments, or theories. Multiple high-profile resignations from health agencies due unscientific and unethical actions by those agencies does not inspire confidence either. When trial data and real world data show significant cause for concern and the same cadre of fact-checkers keeps saying it is just a "figment of your imagination" - excess mortality happens all the time, every year, nothing to see here....that is a little suspicious.

 

I think it would be much better if the health agencies were more honest and open instead of taking an inflexible, obstinate, pro-big pharma stance and constantly belittling anyone who disagrees (even in the slightest).

 

A better approach would be to say "The COVID injections work really well, providing short-term protection through the enhancement of anti-bodies, but they do not stop transmission and are not a guarantee to keep you out of the hospital or from dying from COVID. They are the best we have right now and will save a lot of people, but we are constantly trying to improve our response to this virus and pandemic".

Edited by Mind, 10 September 2022 - 11:18 AM.

[zorba990]

So then I will cherry pick this:
J. Clin. Med. 2022, 11(8), 2219;
The Incidence of Myocarditis and Pericarditis in Post COVID-19 Unvaccinated Patients—A Large Population-Based Study
https://www.mdpi.com...3/11/8/2219/htm

Abstract

Myocarditis and pericarditis are potential post-acute cardiac sequelae of COVID-19 infection, arising from adaptive immune responses. We aimed to study the incidence of post-acute COVID-19 myocarditis and pericarditis. Retrospective cohort study of 196,992 adults after COVID-19 infection in Clalit Health Services members in Israel between March 2020 and January 2021. Inpatient myocarditis and pericarditis diagnoses were retrieved from day 10 after positive PCR. Follow-up was censored on 28 February 2021, with minimum observation of 18 days. The control cohort of 590,976 adults with at least one negative PCR and no positive PCR were age- and sex-matched. Since the Israeli vaccination program was initiated on 20 December 2020, the time-period matching of the control cohort was calculated backward from 15 December 2020. Nine post-COVID-19 patients developed myocarditis (0.0046%), and eleven patients were diagnosed with pericarditis (0.0056%). In the control cohort, 27 patients had myocarditis (0.0046%) and 52 had pericarditis (0.0088%). Age (adjusted hazard ratio [aHR] 0.96, 95% confidence interval [CI]; 0.93 to 1.00) and male sex (aHR 4.42; 95% CI, 1.64 to 11.96) were associated with myocarditis. Male sex (aHR 1.93; 95% CI 1.09 to 3.41) and peripheral vascular disease (aHR 4.20; 95% CI 1.50 to 11.72) were associated with pericarditis. Post COVID-19 infection was not associated with either myocarditis (aHR 1.08; 95% CI 0.45 to 2.56) or pericarditis (aHR 0.53; 95% CI 0.25 to 1.13). We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection.

Conclusions

Our data suggest that there is no increase in the incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in COVID-19 recovered patients compared to uninfected matched controls. Further longer-term studies will be needed to estimate the incidence of pericarditis and myocarditis in patients diagnosed with COVID-19.
-------
Does any of that matter anyway? Medicine has been running an illegal (and immoral) human trial for the past several years. Take care, friends, the show is not over yet...

[Dorian Grey]

If I had made no prior comments in this thread and my first post was 'my 5G seems better' or 'fridge magnets stick on me' or 'I notice more grey hairs since the vaccine', you guys would be patting my back. Of course, that is jest but it is no more silly than saying the vaccines are culling the human race

 

As for your male fertility, maybe read the conclusion in that paper

 

It is no surprise that an immune response has an impact. That's the immune system for you.  But as there is no real infection or disease, there is no damage. I'd be more concerned about using laptop computers on your lap or warm phones in your pocket. That we do know is affecting sperm counts and motility. Our 21st century lifestyle is not kind to our sperm. Do you want to know what can damage male (and female) fertility? An actual covid infection.

 

'symptomatic covid' after a vaccine is simply an immune response. It is not the disease. It is your immune system doing it's job. Your cells aren't being destroyed by the millions from a virus. Your organs aren't getting perma scarred in a cytokine storm. Honestly I was kind of disappointed when I had my vaccines that all I got was a sore arm. When I had a flu vaccine several years ago, I had the works! Muscle aches, cold shivers, nausea and fatigue. Everything except throwing up and a fever. If it were a covid vaccine, that would all get reported from the SMS they sent out to everyone who got vaxxed. Do you think I reported all those events after the flu vaccine? Did anyone ask? Did anyone care?

 

As for Australian deaths, just compare our 2022 results at a rate per 100K vs America during 2020 per 100K. Our deaths would be much higher had there been no vaccine program. No matter how you try to spin in, unvaccinated individuals end up in hospital and die at far higher rates than vaccinated individuals.

 

 

Every data set is like this. How do you call that a fail? Otherwise, find me one that doesn't. That's a slam dunk the vaccines have prevented deaths and hospital admissions and covid damage. If you are suggesting ALL the data sets are falsified to push the vaccine than that is an outlandish conspiracy theory even more ridiculous than saying fridge magnets stick to me (hint: you can get them to stick if you are a little sweaty)

 

So even though Australia has covid deaths, they are clearly far lower than if we never got vaccinated and we employed a 'let her rip' strategy with the virus.

 

Australia has met the target for 95% 16 years and over being fully vaccinated. We also dont have an unexplained excess death problem. So where does that leave your hypothesis? You know what one difference Australia had compared to America or Europe? We weren't ravaged by covid infections before vaccines existed. 

 

I'm all for research. But you cant make up a conclusion before the research begins.

 

If you are going to ask yourself if the vaccines are to blame for SADS, you must also ask whether the covid infection could play a role. Why doesn't a single antivaxxer seem to consider the possibility that the millions afflicted with covid before vaccines could play a role? Do you consider it? Do you think more research into long covid and covid damage is a good idea?

 

We have looked at the vaccines. And we continue to look at the vaccines. There hasn't been a vaccine more widely looked at or studied or scrutinized by researchers around the world and I'm all for it. But statements purported as fact should be backed up by evidence.  Unless you think there is a world wide conspiracy at play the consensus is they are not killing people months to years later.

 

My money would be on those that had severe cases and long covid being a cause for premature / untimely death. But before I state that as a fact, I'd be keen for research into long covid to study that

 

 

Interesting the data in the graph ends in January 2022.  I mentioned on the previous page: "I feel it is important to start differentiating between the pre & post omicron worlds.  I'm about done rehashing the rights and wrongs of the pre-omicron SARS plague.  

 

Pre-omicron was a true Sudden Acute Respiratory Syndrome, but omicron has not been a notorious destroyer of lungs. I had omicron back in January, & developed no cough at all.  It was a viral sinus infection for me, that passed in a week to 10 days time."

 

---------------------

 

We're in a different world now than we were in 2020/21.  Wuhan & Delta are extinct, and a much milder omicron rules.  Nearly everyone has already had omicron (including those who got vaccinated), and therefore a level of naturally acquired omicron immunity exists.  

 

A massive drive to get everyone boosted with the omicron jab may be a bit pointless & futile at this point.  Most of us are already there with omicron immunity.  This may fade with time, but boosting in Sept/Oct will mean your boosted immunity will be fading around year end, when the next surge may appear.  Logical to wait till mid November if you want this jab.  

[shifter]

Interesting the data in the graph ends in January 2022.  I mentioned on the previous page: "I feel it is important to start differentiating between the pre & post omicron worlds.  I'm about done rehashing the rights and wrongs of the pre-omicron SARS plague.  

 

Pre-omicron was a true Sudden Acute Respiratory Syndrome, but omicron has not been a notorious destroyer of lungs. I had omicron back in January, & developed no cough at all.  It was a viral sinus infection for me, that passed in a week to 10 days time."

 

---------------------

 

We're in a different world now than we were in 2020/21.  Wuhan & Delta are extinct, and a much milder omicron rules.  Nearly everyone has already had omicron (including those who got vaccinated), and therefore a level of naturally acquired omicron immunity exists.  

 

A massive drive to get everyone boosted with the omicron jab may be a bit pointless & futile at this point.  Most of us are already there with omicron immunity.  This may fade with time, but boosting in Sept/Oct will mean your boosted immunity will be fading around year end, when the next surge may appear.  Logical to wait till mid November if you want this jab.  

 

Most of the entire 14K deaths in Australia have been due to the omicron strain. A bad influenza year we get a bit over 1000 deaths concentrated mostly around winter (mid year for us). Omicron is not 'mild' and I shudder what our toll both on death and to the health care system would be if Australia shunned the vaccine and 0% of us were vaccinated.

 

On an individual level - omicron may not be as big of a deal as the previous strains.- but on a national level - it is still a huge deal - for the very ability to put many people burdening the health care system all at once. Omicron might be milder but that doesn't mean it is mild in an absolute sense.

 

In Australia, the winter season has already ended - along with the usual uptick in risk of respiratory viral spread. But as I am going on holiday in mid November and will be transiting on airplanes through multiple airport hubs 'mingling' with passengers from across the world, my risk of becoming in contact with the virus is much greater than my current living and working situation (I dont take public transport and I work on my own). So late October is a good time for me to get a booster if I am to get one.

 

We can never say for sure when we will come in contact with a virus, but we can predict when our greatest risk will be (eg my last shot was at the start of the year before the kids went back to school and despite being summer, I saw no point in rushing to get one for winter.

 

If I happened to catch the virus between now and my holiday, I'd simply consider it my 'unofficial booster' and not get another vaccine shot later this year. It would not be my preferred option though. If I wasn't going on holiday, I wouldn't bother with getting a booster at all this year. I'd look at next year and see how covid is tracking in my area and my own circumstances.

 

I dont judge covid's risk by whether or not it will kill me. I think my chances of survival are very good. I judge it's risk by its ability to destroy quality and maybe even perhaps quantity of life (long covid). The percentage of people ending up with long covid or maybe even sub clinical damage that doesn't immediately present itself is not insignificant. That is not something I want to roll the dice on. A vaccine simply mitigates the risk - I'm fully aware it's not a silver bullet that eliminates risk. Consider the vaccine as adding many more sides of the dice that when rolled, are safe.

 

 

Others may judge and act on risk differently - that's for them.

 

You all do you. Even though we are in a society we are still individuals. In regards to vaccines I have not supported blanket mandates and my message to anyone that asked was to 'listen to your doctor' (my own doctor did not say there was a point in me getting another dose when it became available to me ~2 months ago because he knows me and my health and body. I would never trust any such medical decision from someone on the internet who is not even speaking to me directly or know me at all). My only wish for this world is that our standard of science and research isn't trashed and that conclusions aren't made up based on emotion or bias but on good, sound, unbiased diligent research. Research on the vaccines is ongoing and always good to do and may it never end. Research on long covid or covid damage I believe needs much more support. Too many unknowns there and not enough people talking about or researching it

[Mind]

Over 98% of US citizens are now "anti-vaxxers". Less than 2% have gotten the recent booster so far (approved with a study involving 8 mice).

 

Some of the reasons people stated for not getting the latest booster is that they had bad side effects from previous COVID injections and because they all still got COVID. Around the world, hundreds of injected people are still dying of COVID every day.

[Gal220]

Everyone seems pretty well dug in on their position  here, but the tide is turning.

 

You will see more and more articles like this, from a UK cardiologist

"I’ve spend 9 months on this paper and today it’s finally published after rigorous and long peer review process. It’s perhaps the most important work of my career so far"

https://twitter.com/...257292006014976

https://t.co/uiNRucOQpE

https://t.co/aoy6mHgowF

 

https://twitter.com/...986541302104065

 

Paul Offit on booster for young people

https://twitter.com/...721053091307521

 

 

Mark Steyn does it best - "Nothing to See Here"

https://rumble.com/v...oss-the-uk.html

 

See especially 4:11 for actuary data and 5:54 for EU data

 

 

[Mind]

 

 

My own doctor did not advise I get a 4th dose of the covid vaccine and I agree. I'm in good health so the 3 I already had (nicely spaced apart) will do the job quite nicely.

 

Nearly everyone in Germany is an anti-vaxxer now as well. Hardly anyone is taking the 4th dose in Germany.

[Mind]

We know from previous peer-reviewed research (posted above) that the spike protein from the COVID injections travels throughout the body via exosomes. New research (just a case report) suggests that the spike protein from the COVID injections causes inflammation, encephalitis, and myocarditis throughout the body including the brain. Maybe this is why all cause mortality has increased dramatically this year in multiple countries (verified but public health service data), and why doctors report neurological problems like tinnitus and a recurrence of cancer.