2094 replies to this topic

[Mind]

 

Hot off the press:

 

Same-Day Deaths After COVID-19 Vaccinations: Autopsy Findings in 54 Cases

Manu, Peter MD

 

"These data indicate that same-day deaths after COVID-19 vaccination are extraordinary infrequent. They support a nationwide survey showing no positive association between acute myocardial infarction and pulmonary embolism, common causes of sudden death, in persons receiving mRNA-based vaccines during the 3 weeks following the administration of either the first or the second dose.11 Arterial thrombotic events have been reported after adenovirus-based vaccines,11 but the association is not apparent among the published cases of same-day death.

 

Vaccinations campaigns prior to the COVI-19 pandemic have led to a mortality rate of 1/1,000 within one day of the innoculation.12 This rate reflects a large number of vaccines as well as anaphylactic events. It seems reasonable to assume that the same-day rate of death for a single vaccine might be in a very large range, going from 1/1,000 to 1/1,000,000. The most conservative death rate of 1/1,000,000 would translate, for the COVID-vaccinated population in the Unites States, to at least 224 cases, but none have been reported in the literature as of October 2022."

 

 

This should maybe be referred to Retraction Watch, considering there were 4 anaphylaxis deaths reported during the Pfizer trial alone (among 1833 cases of anaphylaxis). Does trial data not count as "literature"?

[Mind]

Just a round up of some recent news:

 

I know some people do not consider Dr. Mercola a reliable source of COVID information, but here he investigates the claims that the COVID injections are driving new cancer cases. He reports on one doctor who encouraged the injections, then got an aggressive cancer shortly after, and now the doctor is warning other people about this potential side-effect.

 

A review of myocarditis research finds that most papers claiming no increase in myocarditis after the injections are not properly age-stratified, thus hiding the safety signal among young men.

 

Despite the "100% safe and effective" campaign at the beginning of the injection rollout, a survey found around 28% percent respondents suspect someone they know died as a result of the injection. Seems kind-of high to me.

 

European Journal of Pediatrics published a study showing a 17.1 percent increase in cardiac problems among young people after the second injection. In Australia, one analyst claims that cardiac incidents have doubled among 15-54 year-olds.

 

The CDC had finally been forced to release their safety monitoring (which they lied about several times). The Epoch Times reports that the CDC is monitoring 770 different adverse events reported through VAERS many of which qualify as significant safety signals.

 

Much is being made of this recent report out of Australia (government surveillance data), indicating that of all the recent hospitalizations and deaths, NONE were among the un-injected. They were all injected. THis follows data from many other countries, that the injected people now account for more COVID deaths then un-injected people, The data also shows that injected people become infected more often and transmit the virus more often. This recent surveillance report out of the UK seems to show the same thing - recently the most infections are occurring among the elderly - who are also the most likely to be injected.

 

Similar to the U.S. not many people in Switzerland are getting the new boosters and the country will likely end up disposing of millions of expired doses. No matter the hype and media surrounding the injections (both positive and negative), I just don't think people like to get "vaccinated" every other month. They probably think it is a pretty poor "vaccine" if you need to keep getting injected so often.

 

 

[william7]

This just come hot off the press from Dr. Mercola. 
 

https://media.mercol...ariants-pdf.pdf

 

STORY AT-A-GLANCE

January 10, 2023

 At the end of December 2022, John Campbell, Ph.D., posted a video calling on the British health authorities to halt the use of mRNA COVID injections, as the data suggest there are far too many safety issues

 Campbell argues that while the risk of complications and death due to COVID has signicantly lessened since the early days of 2020, the risks associated with the COVID jabs remain the same. Hence, the risk-benet ratio of the mass injection campaign has ipped, and the risk associated with the shot now outweighs the risk of infection

 The COVID jabbed are now dying in greater numbers than the unjabbed — so much so that it has driven down the overall life expectancy in the U.S. by nearly three years

 Across the world, excess mortality has dramatically risen since the rollout of the jabs. If they were benecial, you’d expect excess mortality to drop. We’re also not seeing mass death from COVID. The only clear factor that might account for these discrepancies is mass injection with an experimental gene transfer technology

 Most COVID-19 related deaths are also occurring among the fully jabbed and boosted

 

Dr. John Campbell Called For An End To COVID Vaccines

https://youtu.be/YAG9Y2NdHmc

Edited by william7, 10 January 2023 - 08:29 PM.

[Mind]

About the rising mortality rates in several countries, here is a different take - that the rising mortality rates are real in some countries, but it is because those countries have higher obesity rates. The author notes that there are a few highly-injected countries where the mortality rate has not increased. So essentially, people who are obese were on their way to poor health and death rather soon and the disruptions related to the failed COVID response just brought it on quicker.

 

It is an interesting take - through correlation alone. Many people (including myself) have correctly noted that countries with higher obesity rates have higher mortality rates from COVID. Many studies have shown higher COVID mortality among the elderly and obese, from the very beginning of the media-created COVID panic.

 

One thing to consider, however, is that there are many case studies/autopsies and trial data directly implicating the injections with mortality. I am sure the author of the above-linked article would argue the direct deaths from the injections are rare and that most of the excess mortality is from obesity.

[Mind]

Adding to the large study out of Israel showing that myocarditis is NOT associated with COVID, is a large retrospective study of fatal COVID cases. The authors note the people with heart problems were more likely to die of COVID but that was not much association between COVIOD fatalities and myocarditis. This again supports the conjecture that COVID is NOT causing the large increase in myocarditis, but rather it is the injections (or something else?).

 

Lead author of the Pfizer and Moderna trials now says the COVID injections should be withdrawn. Most countries are not giving them to kids. Denmark is not recommending them to anyone under 50. The U.S. is the only country that is still pushing the injections on everyone - even toddlers.

 

Young men are particularly vulnerable to heart problems from the injections (according to multiple peer-reviewed papers and case studies), which puts US Universities in a legal predicament. They forced everyone to get the injections. Lawsuits are being prepared.

 

Another study finds statistically relevant heart problems related to the COVID injections in people over 65.

[Mind]

Apparently FDA advisory panel "angry" and "disappointed" that they didn't get all the data about the COVID injections before approval. (and recently Pfizer has not provided updated safety data)

 

I don't believe this for one second. Most of the FDA advisory board has ties to big pharma. This looks like a poor attempt at CYA. Remember that two lead advisors resigned last year complaining about corruption in the COVID injection approval process. Also recall that the head of the FDA was recently cheerleading and basically acting as lead salesperson for the COVID injections.

 

Senator Johnson continues to be one of the few people in the US government pointing out the obvious lies of the CDC.

 

Dr. Offit has finally come out against continued boosters for everyone.

[Mind]

I am sure some will just say this group of doctors are just "anti-vaccine nut jobs", but a group of 5 doctors in Sweden has called for a halt to the COVID injections until the side effects can be investigated more thoroughly.

 

The Pfizer trial data is immense but it has been sorted through by a large team of volunteers. Their reports are now in e-book form for easier analysis.

 

Pfizer's business partner BioNtech bullied Twitter into censoring discussions about generic or low cost vaccines.

 

Steve Kirsch claims that there is no ICD10 code for "death by COVID vaccine". Seems like a pretty simple explanation for why the CDC has not found any deaths from the COVID injections, lol, but is it true? Anyone know for sure?

 

A rather funny satire on the "coincidence" of sudden unexplained deaths of many people recently.

[Mind]

Very early on after widespread COVID injection campaigns, a lot of people noticed that those countries who jumped in early, also had huge jumps in COVID cases and deaths. Some people have argued that the deaths were mainly from un-injected people, but recall, a person was not counted as "injected" until 2 weeks after the second shot, so about a month after the first injection. How many people got the injections, then died in the first month, but were not counted as a breakthrough infection or death?

 

A lot of data and published research has come forth indicating that people are more vulnerable to infection the more they get injected. Here is another peer-reviewed paper indicating the same thing. In addition, main stream media outlets are now letting people know the same thing...that you are MORE likely to get the new COVID variant if you have gotten the injection(s).

 

There is probably no better example of this than Japan. There is another huge wave of COVID in Japan even though they follow all of the masking guidelines and the vast majority of the population has not only gotten the original injections but have gotten all the boosters. The mortality rate now is much HIGHER, than in earlier waves. Japan's experts are apparently baffled about the increasing mortality rate.

 

The CDC is barely looking into these issues, but thankfully some doctors and research groups around the world continue to investigate. Here is another case report/autopsy conclusively linking myocarditis to the COVID injection.

 

Although I haven't been able to closely examine the recent paper claiming an extraordinary increase in cardiovascular events and deaths in athletes, some of the data and charts are being shared by others.

[smithx]

Main stream media outlets are now letting people know the same thing...that you are MORE likely to get the new COVID variant if you have gotten the injection(s).

 

This is an example of misreading a badly formed sentence and reporting based on a misunderstanding.

 

For the actual statement from NYC Health, see their webpage here:

https://www.nyc.gov/...a-variants.page

 

The full sentence and context is:

 

The current dominant variant of COVID-19 in NYC is an omicron subvariant called XBB.1.5. This subvariant is the most transmissible form of COVID-19 that we know of to date. It may be more likely to infect people who have been vaccinated or previously had COVID-19 compared to prior variants.

 

 

 

In other words, it's better at bypassing immunity created by previous infection or vaccination. They are not saying that it's more likely to infect people who were vaccinated compared with people who were not vaccinated.

 

They continue by saying:

 

We do not know yet whether XBB.1.5 may cause more severe disease. Getting the COVID-19 vaccine — including the updated booster — is still the best way to protect yourself from hospitalization and death from COVID-19, including from these new variants.

 

Edited by smithx, 19 January 2023 - 02:43 AM.

[Mind]

 

 

It may be more likely to infect people who have been vaccinated

 

They (NYC Health) said it, and the media reported accurately what they said.

 

I am guessing that behind the scenes, they have seen all the peer-reviewed research and country-level data that clearly shows people who have taken the COVID injection are more likely to be infected by future variants, they just don't want to come out and say it plainly to the people...but rather muddle the issue with a vague press release.

[smithx]

They (NYC Health) said it, and the media reported accurately what they said.

 

I am guessing that behind the scenes, they have seen all the peer-reviewed research and country-level data that clearly shows people who have taken the COVID injection are more likely to be infected by future variants, they just don't want to come out and say it plainly to the people...but rather muddle the issue with a vague press release.

 

They didn't say it. All this reporting was based on a single Twitter post, which was a badly formed and misleading sentence. The webpage was up before the twitter post was made.
 

[Mind]

 

 

In other words, it's better at bypassing immunity created by previous infection or vaccination

 

They said it, and you said it.

 

This variant is more likely to infect those who are injected (or had a prior infection) compared to prior variants.

 

The point that a lot of people are making is that it is a poor "vaccine" if you are MORE likely to be infected with future variants.

 

The large Cleveland Clinic study indicated that your risk of infection goes up with every new injection that you take. 

Edited by Mind, 19 January 2023 - 10:25 PM.

[Mind]

One unanticipated side effect of the unhinged non-stop push to get everyone to take the COVID injections is that more people are becoming more skeptical of the vaccine industry in general. This could be a good thing as an extra layer of analysis for new vaccines, but it could have a negative effect on research in the future.

 

Everyday I see more people looking into past vaccine trials. This one was for the HepB vaccine. Someone noted that in children they only monitored for side effects for 5 days after the injection. They thought this was not long enough for approval. I am unsure what the standard length of monitoring is.

 

[Mind]

I know people have said all the athletes collapsing on the field (many dying) and all of the young people dying suddenly in their sleep is nothing to be concerned about...happens all the time, or whatever....

 

But if it keeps happening more people are going to start asking questions. Here is a case of someone who died unexpectedly in their sleep who was quite vocal about disparaging people who did not want to take the injections.

 

In a follow-up, here is a more in depth discussion about the bivalent vaccine data that the FDA did not see before approving it. 

[Mind]

This article is amazing for the admissions it makes:

 

-The recent death rate for unvaccinated people is only 1.32 per 100,000.

-Vaccinated people are more likely to be older and prone to get severe COVID because of underlying health problems

-Unvaccinated people gain natural immunity

-The vaccine protection wanes rapidly

 

If you had mentioned any of these points over the past year or two you would have been lambasted as an anti-vaccine anti-science conspiracy nut, threatened, mocked, and harassed. Now this appears in mainstream media as "matter of fact" nonchalant statements.

[Mind]

Just wondering what people think of this new mouse study out of China. Repeated mRNA injections lowers immune response dramatically.

 

Don't trust Chinese research/data? Just a mouse study, nothing to worry about?

 

This seems to correlate well with mRNA mouse research before the media-created COVID panic. Vaccinated mice developed ADE and all (or most) died when challenged with new viruses.

[Hip]

Just wondering what people think of this new mouse study out of China. Repeated mRNA injections lowers immune response dramatically.

 

Don't trust Chinese research/data? Just a mouse study, nothing to worry about?

 

This seems to correlate well with mRNA mouse research before the media-created COVID panic. Vaccinated mice developed ADE and all (or most) died when challenged with new viruses.

 

I would say this might potentially be a cause for concern.

 

Immune tolerance is a real phenomenon. Immune tolerance is where the immune system lowers the ferocity of attack on a pathogen. It's where the immune system decides to tolerate the presence of the pathogen in the body, without going hell for leather trying to eliminate the pathogen.

 

In the case of mucosal vaccines, these can go wrong and create immune tolerance rather than the desired immune boosting if the vaccine is given without an adjuvant. Ref: here. That intuitively makes sense, since the adjuvant stimulates the immune system (triggers cytokine release, etc); but if there is no such stimulation because no adjuvant is used, the immune system might think the inactivated pathogen in the vaccine is nothing to worry about, and so may decide to tolerate its presence. 

 

Whereas when you use an adjuvant, the strong immune response that this creates makes the immune system think that the inactivated pathogen in the vaccine is causing an infection, and so is something to be concerned about, so the immune system will then mount a strong immune response to it.

 

 

Well it just so happens that the COVID mRNA vaccines contain no adjuvants. Though I am not sure if these results from mucosal immunity also apply to the systemic immunity of injected vaccines. 

Edited by Hip, 20 January 2023 - 03:07 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Just wondering what people think of this new mouse study out of China. Repeated mRNA injections lowers immune response dramatically.

 

Don't trust Chinese research/data? Just a mouse study, nothing to worry about?

 

This seems to correlate well with mRNA mouse research before the media-created COVID panic. Vaccinated mice developed ADE and all (or most) died when challenged with new viruses.

 

As we know, this is a well known phenomena. If you keep introducing a foreign biological substance to the body, and it repeatedly doesn't result in a real illness, eventually the immune system figures out that this particular substance isn't a threat and it starts ignoring it.

 

This is the theory by which allergy immuno-therapy (i.e. "allergy shots") work. You take something that is generating an immune response (pollen, pet hair, foods, etc), you isolate what you think the immune system is reacting to (almost always a protein) and you give the patient periodic injections of it. Eventually the immune system starts to ignore it.

 

There are really three types of vaccines:

 

1.) Vaccines that confer long term immunity lasting anywhere from a decade or so to a lifetime. Examples: Mumps, Polio, Smallpox vaccines

 

2.) Vaccines that confer limited immunity lasting a year or less, but the virus at issue is seasonal and changes from year to year. Examples: Seasonal flu vaccines

 

3.) Vaccines that confer limited immunity lasting a year or less where the virus at issue is persistent and isn't going away. Example: Covid-19 vaccine

 

The first two types of vaccines are viable means of long term protection for a population. The third type of vaccine is not viable long term and will eventually likely become counter productive as you end up training the immune system to ignore at least certain aspects (e.g. the spike protein in the case of covid) of the pathogen.

 

This was known before the covid pandemic and I think I even recall you (Mind) posting a paper to that effect way early back in Q1 2020.

[geo12the]

 

 

There are really three types of vaccines:

 

1.) Vaccines that confer long term immunity lasting anywhere from a decade or so to a lifetime. Examples: Mumps, Polio, Smallpox vaccines

 

2.) Vaccines that confer limited immunity lasting a year or less, but the virus at issue is seasonal and changes from year to year. Examples: Seasonal flu vaccines

 

3.) Vaccines that confer limited immunity lasting a year or less where the virus at issue is persistent and isn't going away. Example: Covid-19 vaccine

 

 

 

The COVID vaccine is more like #2. There is a seasonal component and it changes from year to year.

[Daniel Cooper]

The COVID vaccine is more like #2. There is a seasonal component and it changes from year to year.

 

I don't really think that is the case. In the case of covid you have a single progenitor virus of recent vintage with some genetic drift. It's an RNA virus so the transcription error rate is rather high, but all variants of covid descended from a single point of origin only two to three years ago. So the amount of genetic diversity is low.

 

In the case of influenza you're looking at multiple progenitors from multiple zoonotic sources. Some have avian sources, others porcine, bovine, etc. etc. And you have viruses that jumped to man at a relatively distant point in the past mixed in with viruses of more recent origin. Therefore the genetic diversity in the influenza population is significantly higher.

 

With covid, all of the current vaccines hang their hat on the spike protein. The most recent vaccine added in the omicron variant of spike, but there is significant overlap between the original spike and the omicron spike. So the likelihood of training the immune system to ignore spike with repeated doses of this vaccine is high, as recent research is proving out.

 

On the other hand a vaccine against H1N1 isn't necessarily going to be cross reactive to a H5N1 virus (and we know that's the case because the vaccine changes from year to year).  Whereas we've now been giving repeated doses of the same covid vaccine for two years now with a little nibbling around the edges of the details of the spike. You have people that have now received four or five doses of either exactly the same vaccine or two extremely similar vaccines in the space of two years. You simply don't have that with the flu vaccines.

 

I do not believe that the seasonal influenza vaccine is in any significant way comparable to the covid vaccines currently available. 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 20 January 2023 - 05:30 PM.

[Mind]

The COVID vaccine is more like #2. There is a seasonal component and it changes from year to year.

 

What do you make of the HHS secretary tweeting that you essentially need a booster every 2 months? The CDC says the same thing - every two months.

[Daniel Cooper]

What do you make of the HHS secretary tweeting that you essentially need a booster every 2 months? The CDC says the same thing - every two months.

 

That is nothing less than a tacit admission that subsequent vaccines are conferring less and less immunity.

 

If we've reached the point where the vaccine needs to be boosted every two months then the jig is truly up on the current covid vaccine.

 

And what's worse is these people know that. They aren't stupid and presumably they have more education in this field that the average bear. At this point the CDC and the federal health bureaucracy have an emotional attachment to these vaccines that goes well beyond anything supported by the science. Covid vaccines have become a religious icon. A station of the cross if you will.

[geo12the]

That is nothing less than a tacit admission that subsequent vaccines are conferring less and less immunity.

 

If we've reached the point where the vaccine needs to be boosted every two months then the jig is truly up on the current covid vaccine.

 

And what's worse is these people know that. They aren't stupid and presumably they have more education in this field that the average bear. At this point the CDC and the federal health bureaucracy have an emotional attachment to these vaccines that goes well beyond anything supported by the science. Covid vaccines have become a religious icon. A station of the cross if you will.

 

Y'all  all are missing the big picture. The threat of COVID at the beginning was that our immune systems were not exposed to this virus yet. I know many people who died those first 6 months of 2020. The point of the vaccines was to introduce our immune systems to the virus. And they did that and saved countless lives and suffering. COVID is a respiratory virus and I expected it would behave like other respiratory viruses which constantly mutate to evade the immune system. That is why every year people catch colds. That is why every year new flu shots are developed.  Only thing different is that when the flu or cold viruses mutate to evade immunity they are not labeled as "variants". At this point our collected immune systems have been exposed to COVID, through infection or vaccination or both, so when people contract the new variants they don't get as sick. Among the people I know who have contracted COVID in the last 6 months it's more like a really bad cold.

 

"if it has been at least 2 months since your last dose" The idea that people need boosters every two months is utterly ridiculous. I have no idea if the wording is meant to denote the minimum amount of time before you can get another booster, but it is clearly wording that needs clarification. I agree this is very wrongheaded. 

 

At this point COVID is here to stay and will continue mutating like cold viruses and the flu. That should come as a surprise to no one. Yearly boosters, tailored to the new variants, makes sense. I think one reason the vaccines are not confering as much immunity should be pretty obvious- they are tailored to the original strain, though the bivalent one is a mix. I can't really understand the rational of constantly using vaccines to the original COVID strain and not switching to the approach used for the yearly flu vaccines which are tailored to the current circulating strains.  

Edited by geo12the, 20 January 2023 - 07:52 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Y'all  all are missing the big picture. The threat of COVID at the beginning was that our immune systems were not exposed to this virus yet. I know many people who died those first 6 months of 2020. The point of the vaccines was to introduce our immune systems to the virus. And they did that and saved countless lives and suffering. COVID is a respiratory virus and I expected it would behave like other respiratory viruses which constantly mutate to evade the immune system. That is why every year people catch colds. That is why every year new flu shots are developed.  Only thing different is that when the flu or cold viruses mutate to evade immunity they are not labeled as "variants". At this point our collected immune systems have been exposed to COVID, through infection or vaccination or both, so when people contract the new variants they don't get as sick. Among the people I know who have contracted COVID in the last 6 months it's more like a really bad cold.

 
No, I think I have exactly the big picture. The threat at the beginning of the pandemic was significantly greater than it is today. I also knew people that died, mostly in the first year. I got the first two vaccines in March and April of 2021 which is when they became available to me.
 
When a virus first jumps from one host species to another it is normally at it's most deadly. As the virus adapts to it's new host, the trend is for it to become progressively less deadly but more transmissible. In respiratory viruses this has historically taken 2-3 years. That's why my strategy was to try to avoid contracting it in the first year or two.
 
And I agree with your observation of people that got the virus in the last 6 months having more or less a bad cold. I finally caught covid in early August of last year and that was exactly my experience. Which is the expected outcome with or without a vaccine. The proper view of the vaccine was that it was a way to confer immunity in the early stages of the pandemic when it would be most deadly. That stage has passed. As you say, covid is here to stay. I've been saying this since the beginning when some of our health officials were making noises to the effect that we would vaccinate our way out of this the way we vaccinated our way out of smalpox or polio. That was never going happen. They were either woefully misinformed (which would be astounding given their positions) or they were being less than totally honest with the public.
 
But, we are now well past the early stages of the pandemic. The virus is much less lethal. And most of the population has been exposed either through vaccination or having contracted the virus (whether they are aware they contracted it or not). The situation is radically different yet the federal health bureaucracy has not by in large adapted their stance to the new situation. 

 

"if it has been at least 2 months since your last dose" The idea that people need boosters every two months is utterly ridiculous. I have no idea if the wording is meant to denote the minimum amount of time before you can get another booster, but it is clearly wording that needs clarification. I agree this is very wrongheaded.

 
I think HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra's tweet was pretty straight forward:
 
"An updated COVID vaccine can help protect you from the worst outcomes of COVID. If it’s been over 2 months since your last dose, make a plan to get one now."
 
I don't know how to interpret that beside if you haven't had a booster in two months it's time to get one - do you?
 

At this point COVID is here to stay and will continue mutating like cold viruses and the flu. That should come as a surprise to no one. Yearly boosters, tailored to the new variants, makes sense. I think one reason the vaccines are not confering as much immunity should be pretty obvious- they are tailored to the original strain, though the bivalent one is a mix. I can't really understand the rational of constantly using vaccines to the original COVID strain and not switching to the approach used for the yearly flu vaccines which are tailored to the current circulating strains.

Covid was here to stay after it made the jump into man (whether naturally or via a lab leak) and made the first human to human transmission.

 

But you've said two things that are at odds with each other. You said that people you know that caught covid in the last 6 months experienced the equivalent of a bad cold. But here you say that we should have yearly boosters tailored to the new variants (for how long? To infinity and beyond?). Why? We don't attempt to vaccinate for the common cold. Because the cost, effort, and potential side effects don't justify it. You in the field. You know better than I do that this virus will asymptotically approach the equivalent of the common cold and will eventually be just one more coronavirus of the 3 or 4 that today cause about 30% of the common colds. We are well down the path of that occurring. We are to the point where nature can take it's course and we can move on.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 20 January 2023 - 08:24 PM.

[Mind]

In addition, new variants are coming out every couple of months or so. Every time a new variant comes out, Pfizer and Moderna let everyone know they will have a booster ready in no time, and then HHS and CDC say "everyone get your booster". There have been some public figures saying there will be one shot per year, but that is not what is happening in reality. The pace of original shots plus boosters is about every 6 months right now, and HHS and CDC are saying get every booster - if there is one available - no less than 2 months later than your last injection.

_____________________________

 

Surely another group of anti-science whack jobs, deserving to lose their jobs, and be relentlessly mocked, has called for a temporary suspension of the COVID injections, a large group of UK doctors.

 

Another analysis, among many other posted here, showing that the increase in heart problems and myocarditis in highly correlated with the roll-out of the COVID injections. An acquaintance of mine suffered pericarditis after the injection. He did not speak out about it because he still felt the benefit of the injection outweigh the potential side effects.

 

A recent CDC study indicates nearly 50% of children who took the COVID injections suffered a "systemic" reaction for several days. The most common reaction was fatigue, followed by fever, myalgia, and chills. 50% seems pretty high. I don't think other vaccines have that large of a percentage suffering such side effects.

Edited by Mind, 20 January 2023 - 09:33 PM.

[geo12the]

 But here you say that we should have yearly boosters tailored to the new variants (for how long? To infinity and beyond?). Why? We don't attempt to vaccinate for the common cold. Because the cost, effort, and potential side effects don't justify it. You in the field. You know better than I do that this virus will asymptotically approach the equivalent of the common cold and will eventually be just one more coronavirus of the 3 or 4 that today cause about 30% of the common colds. We are well down the path of that occurring. We are to the point where nature can take it's course and we can move on.

 

For the same reason we have vaccines to the flu. Personally I have always thought it should be a personal choice to be vaccinated (but businesses should be able to require vaccinations if they believe having their employees sick will effect their business). People, especially the elderly who are most at risk, should be able to get vaccinated (with new boosters) yearly. Personally as I have mentioned here before I despise being sick even with a cold so I will be get a yearly booster. While all vaccines come with risks and side effects, the anti-vax propaganda spewed here by various folks is exaggerated bs.     

[Hip]

This is the theory by which allergy immuno-therapy (i.e. "allergy shots") work. You take something that is generating an immune response (pollen, pet hair, foods, etc), you isolate what you think the immune system is reacting to (almost always a protein) and you give the patient periodic injections of it. Eventually the immune system starts to ignore it.

 

There are really three types of vaccines:

 

1.) Vaccines that confer long term immunity lasting anywhere from a decade or so to a lifetime. Examples: Mumps, Polio, Smallpox vaccines

 

2.) Vaccines that confer limited immunity lasting a year or less, but the virus at issue is seasonal and changes from year to year. Examples: Seasonal flu vaccines

 

3.) Vaccines that confer limited immunity lasting a year or less where the virus at issue is persistent and isn't going away. Example: Covid-19 vaccine

 

Yes, these are the 3 scenarios, but I don't think there are 3 types of vaccines as such; rather there are 3 types of pathogens that fit this 3-part schema. 

 

(1) With most pathogens, vaccines will confer long term immunity lasting for decades, as you say.

 

(2) Then in the case of rapidly mutating pathogens like influenza, yearly vaccinations are required to cover the next strain of the flu. It's not that the previous year's flu vaccine has stopped working; it's because the flu virus has mutated, so that it is now effectively a different virus.

 

(3) As for your third category, what most people on this forum don't appreciate is that coronavirus is an unusual virus, which does not create long term immunity, even during natural infection. This is one of the reasons why you don't develop immunity to the common cold, as many cold viruses are coronaviruses. Most other viruses will produce long term immunity from a natural infection, but coronavirus does not.

 

This was known right at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, that this lasting immunity problem would be a major issue, and would have two very negative consequences:

• People would get reinfected with COVID even if they previously caught it, because natural immunity to coronavirus does not last.
• The COVID vaccines would also likely not be able to create long term immunity.

 

 

This is why the idea of getting herd immunity by just letting COVID rip through society was discounted — because you cannot get herd immunity to coronavirus. 

 

If this pandemic had been caused by another virus, like poliovirus for example, then natural infection with that will lead to lifetime immunity. And a single vaccine shot would protect you for decades. But neither is the case with coronavirus. 

 

People on this forum are blaming the COVID vaccines for their poor performance, because unlike other vaccines, they are not able to protect people for decades. But it would be better to learn a bit about the science of coronavirus immunity, so that you can appreciate what the vaccine makers are up against.  

 

As I understand it, this shortcoming is nothing to do with the COVID vaccine technology itself, and is everything to do with the fact that coronavirus itself is a weird virus that does not generate lasting immunity. 

 

 

 

If you would like to read more about why coronavirus does not result in lasting immunity, this article from 2017 covers some of it:

 

Why Don’t We Ever Develop Immunity Against the Common Cold?

 

This article explains that the spike protein of common cold coronaviruses is made up of three parts, which work to evade antibody attacks from the immune system. These spike protein dynamics relate to how coronavirus infection does not lead to long term immunity. I don't really understand the mechanism, but wish we could discuss fascinating scientific issues like this, rather than politics, conspiracy theory and always taking a negative cynical perspective on the efforts of science. 

Edited by Hip, 21 January 2023 - 01:34 AM.

[Empiricus]

Y'all  all are missing the big picture. The threat of COVID at the beginning was that our immune systems were not exposed to this virus yet. I know many people who died those first 6 months of 2020. The point of the vaccines was to introduce our immune systems to the virus. And they did that and saved countless lives and suffering.  

 

Many people died during the first several months because of 1) hospital malpractice, including the misuse of respirators and the administration of inappropriate drugs; 2) banning of several effective and safe drugs; 3) banning, censorship, and lack of promotion of safe and effective prophylactics, especially vitamin D.  

 

Also, many people were naturally exposed to the virus early on, and acquired broader and longer-enduring immunity than the mRNA vaccines would provide.  These already well-protected people were coerced to get vaccinated for no good reason.

 

At this point COVID is here to stay and will continue mutating like cold viruses and the flu. That should come as a surprise to no one. Yearly boosters, tailored to the new variants, makes sense. I think one reason the vaccines are not confering as much immunity should be pretty obvious- they are tailored to the original strain, though the bivalent one is a mix. I can't really understand the rational of constantly using vaccines to the original COVID strain and not switching to the approach used for the yearly flu vaccines which are tailored to the current circulating strains.  

 

Yearly boosters? LOL.  

Edited by Empiricus, 21 January 2023 - 06:46 AM.

[healthmysteries31]

(3) As for your third category, what most people on this forum don't appreciate is that coronavirus is an unusual virus, which does not create long term immunity, even during natural infection. This is one of the reasons why you don't develop immunity to the common cold, as many cold viruses are coronaviruses. Most other viruses will produce long term immunity from a natural infection, but coronavirus does not.

 

 

That's partially true but it's still only half of the truth and a common misconception which is sometimes used to fear-monger so I would like to explain this in more detail:

 

Influenza and corona viruses mutate rapidly and as such they can evolve quickly enough to re-infect people. Coronavirus reinfections of common cold viruses happen every couple for years on average for each variant.

 

Our bodies however are not helpless against these infections. We do have several types of immune defenses and immune memories can be long-lasting.

 

What happens is that we develop partially immunity against them that can last a long time or even a lifetime but does not protect completely that's why we get re-infected but do usually only get mild disease.

 

Children get exposed early in life when they are less vulnerable and better equipped to handle these types of infections and once they are exposed their immune system retains a memory that lasts a lifetime.

 

If an adult got exposed to a common influenza virus for the first time in their life they would develop unusually severe disease for an influenza virus since the immune system had no previous experience with this type of infection. After the first infection they would also have acquired lasting immune memory.

 

Further exposure would result in less severe disease.

 

This is seen in isolated tribespeople who never had contact with the outside world. Exposing them to harmless common cold or influenza virus can result in serious epidemics with many of them dying because they lacked immune memory from childhood when first time exposure would have been much safer.

 

The difference between life and death in this scenario is immune memory. When covid-19 was introduced to the world we were all tribespeople because we lacked immunity from childhood exposure.

 

So the idea that we don't develop immunity against these infections is not true in the sense that we do develop immunity against disease but not against re-infections so it's not a 100% immunity as seen with other diseases but it's far from zero.

 

Immunity is quite powerful in that regard: If you have been exposed to a common coronavirus as a child it's a common cold. If you haven't been exposed it could kill you. The only reason why flu or the common cold is usually harmless is that we already have immunity against it.

Edited by healthmysteries31, 21 January 2023 - 11:39 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

For the same reason we have vaccines to the flu. Personally I have always thought it should be a personal choice to be vaccinated (but businesses should be able to require vaccinations if they believe having their employees sick will effect their business). People, especially the elderly who are most at risk, should be able to get vaccinated (with new boosters) yearly. Personally as I have mentioned here before I despise being sick even with a cold so I will be get a yearly booster. While all vaccines come with risks and side effects, the anti-vax propaganda spewed here by various folks is exaggerated bs.     

 

But you are ignoring the fact that repeatedly vaccinating with very similar vaccines is at best futile as the conferred immunity will diminish and last for a shorter duration with each subsequent vaccine or at worst it may create "anti-immunity" as you train the immune system to ignore the protein you keep periodically showing it.

 

HHS is now apparently recommending vaccinations every two months. If that is where we're at we have reached the end of these mRNA based spike targeted vaccines. If a vaccine only confers two months of useful immunity then why do you want to give it once a year? The evidence shows that the most recent bivalent vaccine gave almost no improved immunity against omicron than the original vaccine. Which is lasting far less than a year.

 

Maybe you can make a vaccine that targets something other than spike, but repeatedly giving the same or highly similar vaccine isn't going to work and there is ample evidence of that.
 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 21 January 2023 - 05:15 PM.