• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
* * * * - 4 votes

Regarding the vaccines, I think this is a question we All should be asking as members of a longevity-promoting website.

coronavirus

  • Please log in to reply
2090 replies to this topic

#781 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:18 AM

I remember when many people in this discussion said the COVID injections did not prevent infection. They were attacked as anti-science, anti-vax, conspiracy nuts - called "Covidiots"

 

That COVIDIOCY still continues on this forum today, as some people here state that the COVID vaccines do not prevent infection.

 

The reality is that COVID vaccination does help prevent infection, it reduces your chances of becoming infected. It does not guarantee you will not be infected, but reduces your chances (by a factor of 3 if I remember correctly).

 

 

 


I remember when these women tried to alert everyone to what was happening with their menstrual cycles. They were savagely attacked and censored online. They were called insane anti-vaxxers, among many other horrible things.

 

I don't remember anyone getting savagely attacked for mentioning this. You will have to show me the webpage in question where this attack took place.

 

Note that COVID infection itself can cause changes in menstrual cycles. Thus it is likely not the COVID vaccine technology itself which is causing the menstruation changes, but probably the COVID spike protein. 


Edited by Hip, 04 February 2023 - 05:19 AM.

  • Agree x 2
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Unfriendly x 1

#782 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,699 posts
  • 642
  • Location:USA

Posted 04 February 2023 - 06:22 AM

That COVIDIOCY still continues on this forum today, as some people here state that the COVID vaccines do not prevent infection.

 

 

 

Let's cool this down shall we.

 

 

 

 


  • Agree x 2

#783 pamojja

  • Guest
  • 2,921 posts
  • 729
  • Location:Austria

Posted 04 February 2023 - 11:58 AM

Are you suggesting that it is wrong to mention the possible negative consequences of not being vaccinated? Long COVID is a MASSIVE negative. Is Longecity a forum where we only discuss the problems with the vaccines, not their benefits?

 

Well, agian my n=330: No-one died, no-one hospitalized, almost all vaccinated experienced sick-ness leave after the jab, almost all vaccinated got covid twice, some really strong short of being hospitalized.

 

All personally known without vaccination didn't get covid even once. In my own case with all co-morbities (T2D, PAD). And to round it up sort of ironic, the only co-worker abusing me for not vaccinating (asked as member of the union for protection from job-mandates) got long-covid vaccinated. :|?



#784 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,336 posts
  • 2,001
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 04 February 2023 - 03:48 PM

There is persistent myth going around that natural immunity is "weak" and that the COVID injections offer superior protection from infection. This is not backed-up by the available science. In fact, the current literature mostly suggests the opposite.

 

Here is another PEER-REVIEWED paper in Nature, indicating that natural immunity was far superior in preventing further infection. The authors clearly state that "...prior infection has a STRONG protective effect".

 

With all of the misinformation (and hatred) being spread online, more and more people are becoming vaccine hesitant and outright "anti-vax". 85% of the U.S. public has not taken the most recent COVID booster and that number hasn't budged in months. This, in spite of the fact that "talking head" doctors on TV, and the current government, keep telling everyone how they are in danger if they don't get the latest COVID injection.

 

85%!

 

It is no wonder that Turtles All the Way Down, is becoming more popular once again.


Edited by Mind, 04 February 2023 - 04:04 PM.

  • Good Point x 3

#785 geo12the

  • Guest
  • 762 posts
  • -211

Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:36 PM

There is persistent myth going around that natural immunity is "weak" and that the COVID injections offer superior protection from infection. This is not backed-up by the available science. In fact, the current literature mostly suggests the opposite.

 

Here is another PEER-REVIEWED paper in Nature, indicating that natural immunity was far superior in preventing further infection. The authors clearly state that "...prior infection has a STRONG protective effect".

 

With all of the misinformation (and hatred) being spread online, more and more people are becoming vaccine hesitant and outright "anti-vax". 85% of the U.S. public has not taken the most recent COVID booster and that number hasn't budged in months. This, in spite of the fact that "talking head" doctors on TV, and the current government, keep telling everyone how they are in danger if they don't get the latest COVID injection.

 

85%!

 

 

 

The problem is that you are selectively picking out the bits of the paper that cater to your view. Their conclusion is:

 

"Our study shows that vaccination or previous infection has a strong protective effect against Sars-CoV-2 hospitalization"

 

In other words both prior infection and vaccines work. Something we basically already knew. 


  • Disagree x 1
  • Agree x 1

#786 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 04 February 2023 - 08:23 PM

Here is another PEER-REVIEWED paper in Nature, indicating that natural immunity was far superior in preventing further infection.


There have been a number of studies showing that natural immunity from prior COVID infection reduces you chances of death during any subsequent acute COVID reinfections. For example, this paper and this one show natural immunity is protective of death during the acute phase.

 

But those studies miss the big picture, because they do not follow up patients for a longer period; they only usually record deaths occurring during the few weeks of acute infection.

 

 

One you look at the big picture, and follow COVID patients for a 6-month period after their infection, as this Veterans Affairs study I posted before did, you find that the net overall effect of prior COVID infection is to increase the chances of death in any subsequent COVID reinfections

 

This is because when COVID kills, it does not just kill during the acute infection phase (the first few weeks), but kills people many months after they have recovered from their acute infection.

 

If you look at figure 3 from the Veterans Affairs study, you see it indicates the chances of death by any cause is actually higher in the 6 month post-acute phase, compared to during the acute phase of the infection. So most of the COVID deaths are not occurring during the acute infection via lung failure; most COVID deaths are occurring many months after the acute infection has cleared up, when people think they have recovered. 

 

Clearly COVID is damaging the heart, and/or is lingering in the heart tissues, which is why it can cause this delayed action death by heart failure many months after your infection has cleared up.  

 

The Veterans Affairs study is not the only one which has found a delayed action death from COVIDthis study for example found that in year after catching COVID, you are at higher risk of dying from heart attacks.

 

This delayed action death that COVID infection causes many months has not been adequately studied. 

 

But when we look at the effects of natural immunity and vaccine immunity, clearly we need to look at the big picture, and note the overall effect on mortality over a timeframe of 6 to 12 months.

 

When we look at this bigger picture, we see that prior COVID infection actually increases, not decreases, your chances of death from any subsequent COVID reinfection. 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Hip, 04 February 2023 - 08:28 PM.

  • Ill informed x 4
  • Good Point x 1
  • Agree x 1

#787 smithx

  • Guest
  • 1,446 posts
  • 458

Posted 04 February 2023 - 08:40 PM

What's misleading about this is that nearly everyone in Australia has been vaccinated, so of course there will be more vaccinated people being hospitalized than unvaccinated.

 

What counts is the PER CAPITA rate comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated.

 

In NSW, a 4th vaccine was only offered to people with severe health problems for a long time, so it is likely that most people who got 4 vaccines are in this group, while the few who were never vaccinated and are still alive are probably in a much younger and more basically healthy group.

 

 

 

 

All the data out of Australia has the vaccinated being hospitalized

https://twitter.com/...src=typed_query

 

 

"The  NSW govt’s own data shows that over the past 4 weeks; 498 quadruple vaccinated people have been admitted to hospital with Covid - and just one vaccine free person. "

 

 

 

Insurance analysis - in a dose dependent fashion, the more vaccinated, the more aggregate mortality

https://twitter.com/...512597798977539

 

 

"7% Increase In Aggregate Mortality for Each C19 Dose Received"

 


Edited by smithx, 04 February 2023 - 08:44 PM.

  • Agree x 2

#788 william7

  • Guest
  • 1,779 posts
  • 17
  • Location:US

Posted 04 February 2023 - 10:59 PM

Here’s an excellent video of an interview of Robert Kennedy, Jr., on how the powerful captured the public during the pandemic. Fascinating!

 

https://rumble.com/v...-the-publi.html


  • Good Point x 2
  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • dislike x 1
  • Disagree x 1

#789 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 04 February 2023 - 11:29 PM

Here’s an excellent video of an interview of Robert Kennedy, Jr., on how the powerful captured the public during the pandemic. Fascinating!
 
https://rumble.com/v...-the-publi.html

 
I could not help noticing that on Robert F Kennedy Jr's bookshelf (shown behind him in this video), there are no less than nine large duck ornaments!
 
Quite fitting for a medical quack like RFKJr!
 

  • Pointless, Timewasting x 2
  • Agree x 2
  • Unfriendly x 2
  • Off-Topic x 1
  • Ill informed x 1

#790 william7

  • Guest
  • 1,779 posts
  • 17
  • Location:US

Posted 05 February 2023 - 03:45 AM

 

 
I could not help noticing that on Robert F Kennedy Jr's bookshelf (shown behind him in this video), there are no less than nine large duck ornaments!
 
Quite fitting for a medical quack like RFKJr!
 

RFKJr is not a medical doctor. He’s a lawyer. He successfully worked in environmental law and expanded into protecting the public from dangerous medical practices. 


  • Informative x 2
  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1

#791 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 05 February 2023 - 04:16 AM

RFKJr is not a medical doctor. He’s a lawyer.  

 

Sure, bringing environmental polluters to book is a good thing. But that was the past.

 

He now runs a multi-million dollar antivax business which counters the medical advice given by government medical experts. So he operates in the medical arena. His antivax messaging has undoubtedly led to the death of many people during the pandemic. He associates with many known antivax quacks. 

 

If you watch this video about RFKJr ranting on about 5G phone techology conspiracy theories, it's clear that his mental health has declined. I think from his language he is probably suffering from schizotypy, a very mild version of schizophrenia that makes people susceptible to conspiracy theories. This is sad to see, for someone who did such good work in the past as an environmentalist. 


  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 2
  • Agree x 2
  • Off-Topic x 1
  • Good Point x 1
  • Disagree x 1

#792 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,699 posts
  • 642
  • Location:USA

Posted 05 February 2023 - 06:40 AM

If you watch this video about RFKJr ranting on about 5G phone techology conspiracy theories, it's clear that his mental health has declined. I think from his language he is probably suffering from schizotypy, a very mild version of schizophrenia that makes people susceptible to conspiracy theories. This is sad to see, for someone who did such good work in the past as an environmentalist. 

 

I haven't seen any compelling evidence that 5G is harmful, but having that opinion does not make a person crazy.

 

But, we've been here before. There is a long pedigree in certain parts of the world of diagnosing those that disagree with the official line has having a mental illness.

 

We certainly inhabit a most contentious time. Where someone that disagrees with you can't merely be wrong, they must be evil or crazy.

 

I suppose that's a natural position if you believe your opinions are so obviously correct and that you are so personally immune from error that anyone that disagrees with you can only do so out of malice or mental defect.


  • Good Point x 2
  • Well Written x 2
  • Enjoying the show x 1

#793 william7

  • Guest
  • 1,779 posts
  • 17
  • Location:US

Posted 05 February 2023 - 08:50 AM

Sure, bringing environmental polluters to book is a good thing. But that was the past.

 

He now runs a multi-million dollar antivax business which counters the medical advice given by government medical experts. So he operates in the medical arena. His antivax messaging has undoubtedly led to the death of many people during the pandemic. He associates with many known antivax quacks. 

 

If you watch this video about RFKJr ranting on about 5G phone techology conspiracy theories, it's clear that his mental health has declined. I think from his language he is probably suffering from schizotypy, a very mild version of schizophrenia that makes people susceptible to conspiracy theories. This is sad to see, for someone who did such good work in the past as an environmentalist. 

    Of course, I would say that RFKJr has saved many from the harmful effects of vaccines - including death. Especially children! The tide is starting to shift on the pandemic response, Covid-19, and the vaccines. You’ll eventually see RFKJr fully vindicated. Just look at the recent article in Newsweek, a mainstream news publication. https://youtu.be/mbl7gatVa2s.
   On RFKJr suffering from mild mental illness, I would have to warn you, you would be thrown out of court on that argument. Being a staunch anti-psychiatrist, we understand that psychiatry itself is a form of aberration. https://blogs.scient...ry-heal-itself/. Psychiatric labeling is a false, hypocritical practice, designed to oppress the poor and working class more than anyone else. https://www.psycholo...l-health-labels. It’s mostly a tool of big pharma to sell drugs and make a killing, killing people. https://topdocumenta...ropic-drugging/.

 


Edited by william7, 05 February 2023 - 08:52 AM.

  • Informative x 2
  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • Ill informed x 1

#794 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 05 February 2023 - 03:51 PM

Of course, I would say that RFKJr has saved many from the harmful effects of vaccines - including death. Especially children! The tide is starting to shift on the pandemic response, Covid-19, and the vaccines. You’ll eventually see RFKJr fully vindicated. Just look at the recent article in Newsweek, a mainstream news publication. https://youtu.be/mbl7gatVa2s.

 
Nobody is suggesting that vaccines do not sometimes cause harm. Most highly beneficial things in our lives cause harm sometimes, including cars (50,000 die each year in the US through road accidents), houses (3000 die each year in house fires), aspirin (15,000 die from taking aspirin each year).
 
So given this fact, the question with vaccines is whether the benefits vasty outweigh the negatives. 
 
An competent and honest version of RFKJr would state that though the are side effects from the COVID vaccines, the benefits greatly outweigh the negatives, and therefore the vaccine is recommended.

 

Does RFKJr say that? No, he has not issued any balanced statements like that.

 

Even RFKJr's own family have said that they love him, but his antivax propaganda is terrible.


 

On RFKJr suffering from mild mental illness, I would have to warn you, you would be thrown out of court on that argument. Being a staunch anti-psychiatrist, we understand that psychiatry itself is a form of aberration. https://blogs.scient...ry-heal-itself/. Psychiatric labeling is a false, hypocritical practice, designed to oppress the poor and working class more than anyone else. https://www.psycholo...l-health-labels. It’s mostly a tool of big pharma to sell drugs and make a killing, killing people. https://topdocumenta...ropic-drugging/.

 

If you believe in RFKJr's 5G conspiracy theories, you might like to consider whether you have schizotypy yourself. Schizotypy is very common, a massive 4% of the population have schizotypy, so you would be in good company. There are online questionnaires you can complete which can help diagnosed you.

 

Your views that psychiatric labelling is designed to oppress the poor and working classes are certainly odd and conspiracy theory-like. 

 

Serious psychiatric conditions like major depression, bipolar, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc are one of the worst sufferings that can be inflicted onto conscious living beings. The cosmos we live in can inflict hellish suffering on conscious beings by tormenting them with hideous mental symptoms. Hell is not a theoretical concept, but actually exists here on Earth, in the form of all the serious mental health illnesses that afflict humanity. Putting your head in the sand regarding these terrible psychiatric afflictions is ignoring all the people who live in hell on an everyday basis.

 

Humanity need to address this terrible problem of hellish psychiatric symptoms, and this can only be done by science, by trying to figure out what causes mental symptoms, and trying to fix the cause. 

 

At present our understanding of the causes of mental health is still primitive, so all we have to offer at the moment are drugs which are a Band-Aid, but do not address or fix the (unknown) root cause of mental ill health in the brain. Nevertheless, these drugs can be lifesavers for people in extreme states of suffering due to mental ill health. 

 

The main problem with the psychiatric profession is that the majority of psychiatrists (erroneously) believe that mental illness is caused by psychological factors (like adverse or stressful life events), rather than by a physical underlying brain dysfunction. So psychiatrists ever since Freud have been making lots of money giving talk therapies to patients, even though such therapies have never once cured any serious mental illness. 

 

Only a small minority of psychiatrists understand that serious mental illness is most likely caused by physical dysfunction in the brain. So this is a major problem with psychiatry, because they are looking in the wrong place for the cause of mental illnesses. They need to look at the brain, the physical organ which creates our minds.

 

 

  

 


Edited by Hip, 05 February 2023 - 04:06 PM.

  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 2
  • Agree x 2
  • Needs references x 1
  • Off-Topic x 1
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Good Point x 1

#795 geo12the

  • Guest
  • 762 posts
  • -211

Posted 05 February 2023 - 05:54 PM

 

 

We certainly inhabit a most contentious time. Where someone that disagrees with you can't merely be wrong, they must be evil or crazy.

 

I suppose that's a natural position if you believe your opinions are so obviously correct and that you are so personally immune from error that anyone that disagrees with you can only do so out of malice or mental defect.

 

I wonder why you never call out Mind  when he calls people he disagrees with evil, but you always call out Hip?

 

People have always disagreed and argued. The thing that is different now is the embrace of alterative facts, denial of reality, social media news echo chambers and internet charlatan-gurus that people follow and this hyper-partisan tribal identity politics where everyone who is on the other team is evil. At the end of the day what should matter is truth and facts. That is all but lost in these discussions where people cherry pick conclusions from papers-scroll up and you will see my last post is calling out for someone doing this-and the only thing that matters is that your side is validated.


Edited by geo12the, 05 February 2023 - 05:56 PM.

  • like x 2
  • Unfriendly x 1

#796 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,699 posts
  • 642
  • Location:USA

Posted 06 February 2023 - 01:08 AM

I wonder why you never call out Mind  when he calls people he disagrees with evil, but you always call out Hip?

 

Because Hip's remark was explicitly directed at other members of the forum.


  • Agree x 2
  • Enjoying the show x 1
  • Disagree x 1

#797 william7

  • Guest
  • 1,779 posts
  • 17
  • Location:US

Posted 06 February 2023 - 01:34 AM

 
Nobody is suggesting that vaccines do not sometimes cause harm. Most highly beneficial things in our lives cause harm sometimes, including cars (50,000 die each year in the US through road accidents), houses (3000 die each year in house fires), aspirin (15,000 die from taking aspirin each year).
 
So given this fact, the question with vaccines is whether the benefits vasty outweigh the negatives. 
 
An competent and honest version of RFKJr would state that though the are side effects from the COVID vaccines, the benefits greatly outweigh the negatives, and therefore the vaccine is recommended.

 

Does RFKJr say that? No, he has not issued any balanced statements like that.

 

Even RFKJr's own family have said that they love him, but his antivax propaganda is terrible.


 

 

If you believe in RFKJr's 5G conspiracy theories, you might like to consider whether you have schizotypy yourself. Schizotypy is very common, a massive 4% of the population have schizotypy, so you would be in good company. There are online questionnaires you can complete which can help diagnosed you.

 

Your views that psychiatric labelling is designed to oppress the poor and working classes are certainly odd and conspiracy theory-like. 

 

Serious psychiatric conditions like major depression, bipolar, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc are one of the worst sufferings that can be inflicted onto conscious living beings. The cosmos we live in can inflict hellish suffering on conscious beings by tormenting them with hideous mental symptoms. Hell is not a theoretical concept, but actually exists here on Earth, in the form of all the serious mental health illnesses that afflict humanity. Putting your head in the sand regarding these terrible psychiatric afflictions is ignoring all the people who live in hell on an everyday basis.

 

Humanity need to address this terrible problem of hellish psychiatric symptoms, and this can only be done by science, by trying to figure out what causes mental symptoms, and trying to fix the cause. 

 

At present our understanding of the causes of mental health is still primitive, so all we have to offer at the moment are drugs which are a Band-Aid, but do not address or fix the (unknown) root cause of mental ill health in the brain. Nevertheless, these drugs can be lifesavers for people in extreme states of suffering due to mental ill health. 

 

The main problem with the psychiatric profession is that the majority of psychiatrists (erroneously) believe that mental illness is caused by psychological factors (like adverse or stressful life events), rather than by a physical underlying brain dysfunction. So psychiatrists ever since Freud have been making lots of money giving talk therapies to patients, even though such therapies have never once cured any serious mental illness. 

 

Only a small minority of psychiatrists understand that serious mental illness is most likely caused by physical dysfunction in the brain. So this is a major problem with psychiatry, because they are looking in the wrong place for the cause of mental illnesses. They need to look at the brain, the physical organ which creates our minds.

It looks like you’ve swallowed the whole big Pharma scam hook line and sinker. Are you, by any chance, a student studying to be a psychologist or psychiatrist or involved with the mental profession in someway? I’ve noticed that a good number of the people who earn their money or plan to earn their money in such a profession tend to be afflicted with scientism or “science delusion.” You probably only believe in “mechanistic medicine” as the solution for disease states and totally disregard alternative medicine? The belief in “mechanistic medicine” is dogma #10 in the You Tube video “Exposing Scientific Dogmas - Banned TED Talk - Rupert Sheldrake”, at https://youtu.be/sF03FN37i5w. In my opinion, it’s been greed combined with the worship of “mechanistic medicine” that caused the mishandling of the Covid-19 crisis.


  • Good Point x 2
  • Off-Topic x 1
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Agree x 1
  • dislike x 1

#798 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 06 February 2023 - 04:42 AM

It looks like you’ve swallowed the whole big Pharma scam hook line and sinker. Are you, by any chance, a student studying to be a psychologist or psychiatrist or involved with the mental profession in someway? I’ve noticed that a good number of the people who earn their money or plan to earn their money in such a profession tend to be afflicted with scientism or “science delusion.” You probably only believe in “mechanistic medicine” as the solution for disease states and totally disregard alternative medicine? The belief in “mechanistic medicine” is dogma #10 in the You Tube video “Exposing Scientific Dogmas - Banned TED Talk - Rupert Sheldrake”, at https://youtu.be/sF03FN37i5w. In my opinion, it’s been greed combined with the worship of “mechanistic medicine” that caused the mishandling of the Covid-19 crisis.

 

Alternative medicine has never been able to tackle any serious disease. It has a track record of failure.

 

Before the scientific discovery of antibiotics, perfectly healthy people would routinely die in their prime from bacterial infections. In the Victorian era, for example, sudden death of young people from infection was just a part of life. Herbalism and other modes of alternative medicine were well developed in Victorian times, but they could not save these people. Only scientific medicine was able to tackle the issue of lethal bacterial infections, by the development of antibiotics. 

 

Similarly for conditions like hypothyroidism, type 1 diabetes, etc. Thanks to mechanistic science, these diseases are now treatable, and you can live a full life with them; but before science came along, they would quickly kill you. 

 

And when HIV hit us in the 1980s, infected people were trying all sorts of alternative treatments to kill the virus, but nothing helped, and so in the 1980s and 90s everyone with AIDS died. It was only by mechanistic science that we developed the antiviral drugs to tackle HIV, so that people with this virus can now live a full life, provided they take their antiviral pharmaceuticals 

 

Mechanistic science has also eliminated nasty infections such as smallpox, polio, tetanus, rubella, measles, mumps, etc via vaccinations. 

 

That's the reason we put our faith in mechanistic science, because of its track record of success. And that's the reason why we are skeptical of alternative medicine, because it has a track record of failure: you cannot name a single previously fatal disease which alternative medicine has rendered non-fatal. 

 

I am not against alternative medicine though, and find it useful. But most of the alternative medicine I derive benefits from (like vitamins, minerals, supplements) were developed by mechanistic science anyway. It was not the herbalists who discovered vitamins, but scientists. 


Edited by Hip, 06 February 2023 - 05:04 AM.

  • Ill informed x 3

#799 william7

  • Guest
  • 1,779 posts
  • 17
  • Location:US

Posted 06 February 2023 - 08:55 AM

Alternative medicine has never been able to tackle any serious disease. It has a track record of failure.

 

Before the scientific discovery of antibiotics, perfectly healthy people would routinely die in their prime from bacterial infections. In the Victorian era, for example, sudden death of young people from infection was just a part of life. Herbalism and other modes of alternative medicine were well developed in Victorian times, but they could not save these people. Only scientific medicine was able to tackle the issue of lethal bacterial infections, by the development of antibiotics. 

 

Similarly for conditions like hypothyroidism, type 1 diabetes, etc. Thanks to mechanistic science, these diseases are now treatable, and you can live a full life with them; but before science came along, they would quickly kill you. 

 

And when HIV hit us in the 1980s, infected people were trying all sorts of alternative treatments to kill the virus, but nothing helped, and so in the 1980s and 90s everyone with AIDS died. It was only by mechanistic science that we developed the antiviral drugs to tackle HIV, so that people with this virus can now live a full life, provided they take their antiviral pharmaceuticals 

 

Mechanistic science has also eliminated nasty infections such as smallpox, polio, tetanus, rubella, measles, mumps, etc via vaccinations. 

 

That's the reason we put our faith in mechanistic science, because of its track record of success. And that's the reason why we are skeptical of alternative medicine, because it has a track record of failure: you cannot name a single previously fatal disease which alternative medicine has rendered non-fatal. 

 

I am not against alternative medicine though, and find it useful. But most of the alternative medicine I derive benefits from (like vitamins, minerals, supplements) were developed by mechanistic science anyway. It was not the herbalists who discovered vitamins, but scientists. 

You’re cherry picking a few of corporate medicine’s successes while ignoring there major failures. Watch the video “The Big Secret - Full Medical Documentary”, at https://youtu.be/_QGPxlx0oOY, which explains how John D. Rockefeller suppressed natural or alternative medicine while building his empire. They won’t teach this stuff in school for obvious reasons. Then take a look at the history of cannabis as medicine and how its been suppressed and still is being suppressed by big Pharma and corporate medicine. Watch the “Full CNN Documentary Weed Parts 1-3 (2013-2015)”, at https://youtu.be/PRLYV0_6zY8, showing how cannabis as medicine is making a comeback. Had it not been for the hippie movement in the 1960s and 70s that put cannabis in the public eye again in a major way, we might not have the major comeback we’re seeing today. Maybe we can cure you of your “science delusion” with a little education. 


  • Good Point x 2
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Agree x 1

#800 Gal220

  • Guest
  • 1,062 posts
  • 640
  • Location:United States

Posted 06 February 2023 - 02:01 PM

That COVIDIOCY still continues on this forum today, as some people here state that the COVID vaccines do not prevent infection.

 

The reality is that COVID vaccination does help prevent infection, it reduces your chances of becoming infected. It does not guarantee you will not be infected, but reduces your chances (by a factor of 3 if I remember correctly).

 

It's not just us dear Hip

 

MIT professor Retsif Levi

https://twitter.com/...124058229800962

 

"The evidence is mounting & indisputable that MRNA vaccines cause serious harm including death, especially among young people. We have to stop giving them immediately”

 

 

 

Dr. Hoeg on new Myocarditis study... seems our health agencies have a habit of lying. The blood money must be sweet!

https://twitter.com/...255886839193604


  • Informative x 3
  • Good Point x 1

#801 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 06 February 2023 - 05:24 PM

You’re cherry picking a few of corporate medicine’s successes while ignoring there major failures. Watch the video “The Big Secret - Full Medical Documentary”, at https://youtu.be/_QGPxlx0oOY, which explains how John D. Rockefeller suppressed natural or alternative medicine while building his empire.

 

 

They won’t teach this stuff in school for obvious reasons. Then take a look at the history of cannabis as medicine and how its been suppressed and still is being suppressed by big Pharma and corporate medicine. Watch the “Full CNN Documentary Weed Parts 1-3 (2013-2015)”, at https://youtu.be/PRLYV0_6zY8, showing how cannabis as medicine is making a comeback. Had it not been for the hippie movement in the 1960s and 70s that put cannabis in the public eye again in a major way, we might not have the major comeback we’re seeing today. Maybe we can cure you of your “science delusion” with a little education. 

 

Ah the suppressed cures that THEY do not want you to know about. That conspiracy theory. You are falling for any conspiracy theory going, it seems. You probably think there is some mysterious shadow government like the Illuminati controlling all of humanity. That's a common theme in those who are conspiracy theory fanatics. 

 

There is a good chance you are suffering from schizotypy, given that that you are pumping out conspiracy theories in every post.

 

Now, you can live with that affliction, or you can try to do something about it. I can give you some suggestions that will help, either drugs or supplements, depending on your preferences. I speak from experience, since about 25 years ago, after I developed irritable bowel syndrome, it affected my mental state, and for some years I had a schizotypal disposition. That's why I can easily spot someone suffering from schizotypy.

 

As I said, schizotypy is very common, 4% of the population have it, that's 1 in 25. This explains why conspiracy theories are so popular online, as there is a massive schizotypal audience wanting to lap them up. 


  • Unfriendly x 2
  • Disagree x 1

#802 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 06 February 2023 - 05:41 PM

It's not just us dear Hip

 

MIT professor Retsif Levi

https://twitter.com/...124058229800962

 

"The evidence is mounting & indisputable that MRNA vaccines cause serious harm including death, especially among young people. We have to stop giving them immediately”

 

 

But COVID infection itself can trigger myocarditis, as well as numerous other medical events including death, and worse still, long COVID. 

 

If the vaccine are withdrawn, there will be a wave of death as well as an increase in COVID-triggered medical events. Would you like to take that decision of withdrawing the vaccines, and then face the wrath of all the families who have lost loved ones on the basis of that decision?

 

 

As for Prof Retsif Levi, this critique of his comments says he is a professor of business administration, not medicine or science. You might like to read that critique to see the flaws in his argument.


  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1

#803 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 06 February 2023 - 05:43 PM

 Studies linking conspiracy theory beliefs to schizotypy:

 

The relationship between schizotypal facets and conspiracist beliefs via cognitive processes 

 

Belief in conspiracy theories. The role of paranormal belief, paranoid ideation and schizotypy 

 

Associations between schizotypy and belief in conspiracist ideation

 

The relationship between schizotypal facets and conspiracist beliefs via cognitive processes

 

Conspiracy theory and cognitive style: a worldview

 

Something's Going on Here: Psychological Predictors of Belief in Conspiracy Theories

 

Perceptual Biases in Relation to Paranormal and Conspiracy Beliefs

 

 

 

Articles on conspiracy theory beliefs and schizotypy:

 

What Makes Conspiracy Theorists Tick? 

 

Schizotypy and bullshit receptivity predict belief in conspiracy theories 

 

Crazy Beliefs, Sane Believers: Toward A Cognitive Psychology Of Conspiracy Ideation

 

Who believes in conspiracies? New research offers a theory

 


  • Off-Topic x 3
  • Enjoying the show x 1
  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • like x 1

#804 healthmysteries31

  • Guest
  • 34 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Planet Earth
  • NO

Posted 06 February 2023 - 06:24 PM

As I said, schizotypy is very common, 4% of the population have it, that's 1 in 25. This explains why conspiracy theories are so popular online, as there is a massive schizotypal audience wanting to lap them up. 

 

And germophobia is even more common and has a bigger audience. If we start diagnosing people over the internet we could do the same and "diagnose" you with that disorder and claim your judgment is affected by it so much that everything you say is invalid.

 

You would probably be upset if someone did that.

 

If you don't agree with someone either point out the flaws in their argument or just state that your don't agree with their viewpoint.. Routinely claiming that someone is mentally ill because their opinion differs from yours not well adjusted behavior either.

 

Maybe it's a way of trolling people you don't agree with but I don't think it's  a convincing argument and doesn't help anyone. Also it's just lame.


Edited by healthmysteries31, 06 February 2023 - 07:21 PM.

  • Agree x 2
  • Good Point x 2
  • Well Written x 1

#805 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,699 posts
  • 642
  • Location:USA

Posted 06 February 2023 - 07:07 PM

 Studies linking conspiracy theory beliefs to schizotypy:

 

The relationship between schizotypal facets and conspiracist beliefs via cognitive processes 

 

Belief in conspiracy theories. The role of paranormal belief, paranoid ideation and schizotypy 

 

Associations between schizotypy and belief in conspiracist ideation

 

The relationship between schizotypal facets and conspiracist beliefs via cognitive processes

 

Conspiracy theory and cognitive style: a worldview

 

Something's Going on Here: Psychological Predictors of Belief in Conspiracy Theories

 

Perceptual Biases in Relation to Paranormal and Conspiracy Beliefs

 

 

 

Articles on conspiracy theory beliefs and schizotypy:

 

What Makes Conspiracy Theorists Tick? 

 

Schizotypy and bullshit receptivity predict belief in conspiracy theories 

 

Crazy Beliefs, Sane Believers: Toward A Cognitive Psychology Of Conspiracy Ideation

 

Who believes in conspiracies? New research offers a theory

 

 

Is there a purpose for this aside from painting those you disagree with as mentally unsound?

 

 


  • Agree x 2

#806 pamojja

  • Guest
  • 2,921 posts
  • 729
  • Location:Austria

Posted 06 February 2023 - 07:36 PM

Is there a purpose for this aside from painting those you disagree with as mentally unsound?

 

At least he isn't hiding on his PhoenixRising profil, that he is since 11 years self-medicating with the anti-psychotic amisulpride from online pharmacies.

 

 

I have been taking very low doses (12.5 mg daily) of the drug amisulpride for around a year now, and I have found this drug quite helpful for a number of mental and cognitive symptoms that arise in ME/CFS and its comorbid conditions like depression and anxiety disorder.

At very low doses, amisulpride is know to act as an:

Antidepressant treatment
Anti-anhedonia treatment
Anti-anxiety treatment

I have personally found that very low-dose amisulpride also:

Reduces ME/CFS noise sensitivity symptoms
Greatly reduces ME/CFS irritability symptoms
Improves sociability
Treats anxiety psychosis symptoms (anxiety psychosis from anxiety disorder)
Improves attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)

I have all the above conditions, and so I found amisulpride particularly useful.

And how ironic, that propably most he would consider schizotypic because of opposing his crusade never have taken anti-psychotic drugs.


  • Informative x 2

#807 pamojja

  • Guest
  • 2,921 posts
  • 729
  • Location:Austria

Posted 06 February 2023 - 07:45 PM

Alternative medicine has never been able to tackle any serious disease. It has a track record of failure.

 

Just a facet of his to fit his present agenda. All open there for anyone to read on his PR profile that he himself in fact benefited the most from failure supplements:

 

 

Supplements and Drugs That Have Most Helped My ME/CFS and Anxiety

Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements! — this thread details how NAG, flaxseed oil, turmeric and other supplements were highly effective in treating my generalized anxiety disorder. Two other threads of mine on anti-anxiety treatments can be found here and here.

High Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog — this thread details how I found 400 mcg a day of yeast-free selenomethionine generally beneficial for ME/CFS fatigue and brain fog.

Vitamin B12 oils significantly reduce my brain fog — transdermal B12 oils provide similar B12 doses to B12 injections.

Amisulpride — A Multipurpose Drug for ME/CFS — this thread details the multifaceted benefits of very low dose amisulpride for ME/CFS.

IBS Improved After Removing Chloramine From My Drinking Water — this thread details the surprising and significant improvements in my IBS-D that quickly appeared after I started removing the toxic disinfectant chloramine (not the same as chlorine) from my tap drinking water.

Wonders of Prebiotics — this thread details how high dose prebiotics (= food for friendly probiotic bacteria), helped to noticeably reduce my anxiety levels.

Sleep Cycle Inversion: A Simple Technique Fixed This For Me — this thread details a simple technique I used to fix my sleep cycle inversion (where you are awake at night, and sleeping during the day).


  • Informative x 2
  • Enjoying the show x 1

#808 Hip

  • Guest
  • 2,402 posts
  • -449
  • Location:UK

Posted 06 February 2023 - 08:42 PM

If you don't agree with someone either point out the flaws in their argument or just state that your don't agree with their viewpoint.. Routinely claiming that someone is mentally ill because their opinion differs from yours not well adjusted behavior either.

 

Normally when there are flaws in a argument, then pointing out those flaws is the best approach, and helps us get to the truth. However, this approach does not always work.

 

For example, some people have mental health issues such that they genuinely believe they are the second coming of Jesus Christ. I've read accounts of such people who have these beliefs, and their belief is unshakable. 

 

Do you really think it would be fruitful to engage with such a person, and try to have a rational discussion about their belief that they are the messiah? Of course not. If you humour them, it's just going to make it worse.

 

Similarly, when someone claims that all mental health diagnoses and classifications are false, and their real intention is just to oppress the poor and working classes, then engaging in discussing about such a conspiracy theory would be fruitless. 

 

Because of the ubiquity of schizotypy, the Internet is plagued with conspiracy theories. Sometimes these conspiracy theories have terrible effects in real life, such as the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory, or the pizzagate conspiracy theory. 

 

If we are going to try to maintain the sanity of the human race, we need to call out these people mad people who believe in outlandish conspiracy theories, and given them the help they need. We should not humour them, we need to help them.


  • Unfriendly x 2

#809 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,699 posts
  • 642
  • Location:USA

Posted 06 February 2023 - 08:45 PM

Normally when there are flaws in a argument, then pointing out those flaws is the best approach, and helps us get to the truth. However, this approach does not always work.

 

For example, some people have mental health issues such that they genuinely believe they are the second coming of Jesus Christ. I've read accounts of such people who have these beliefs, and their belief is unshakable. 

 

Do you really think it would be fruitful to engage with such a person, and try to have a rational discussion about their belief that they are the messiah? Of course not. If you humour them, it's just going to make it worse.

 

Similarly, when someone claims that all mental health diagnoses and classifications are false, and their real intention is just to oppress the poor and working classes, then engaging in discussing about such a conspiracy theory would be fruitless. 

 

Because of the ubiquity of schizotypy, the Internet is plagued with conspiracy theories. Sometimes these conspiracy theories have terrible effects in real life, such as the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory, or the pizzagate conspiracy theory. 

 

If we are going to try to maintain the sanity of the human race, we need to call out these people mad people who believe in outlandish conspiracy theories, and given them the help they need. We should not humour them, we need to help them.

 

 

Labeling someone as insane because you disagree with them isn't doing much to "maintain the sanity of the human race". Quite the opposite.

 

 


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 06 February 2023 - 08:57 PM.

  • Agree x 2

#810 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,699 posts
  • 642
  • Location:USA

Posted 06 February 2023 - 08:50 PM

Alternative medicine has never been able to tackle any serious disease. It has a track record of failure.

 
 

Just a facet of his to fit his present agenda. All open there for anyone to read on his PR profile that he himself in fact benefited the most from failure supplements:

 

 

Perhaps the conclusion is that Hip doesn't consider ME/CFC to be a serious disease since he's testified on so many occasions how helpful various supplements have been in helping to treat it.

 

 


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 06 February 2023 - 08:51 PM.

  • Good Point x 2





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: coronavirus

16 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 16 guests, 0 anonymous users