2102 replies to this topic

[Mind]

Of course, the Cleveland Clinic Study (among many others) were challenged by incompetent public "health" leaders in the UK/US. Reanalyzing the data based up the rate of infection showed once again that people who got the biivalent booster injection had a much higher COVID infection rate.

 

Not sure how widespread this is, but foreign DNA has been found in some of the COVID injections. Several other reports of contamination have been discussed previously in this thread.

[Dorian Grey]

Took another look at the wiki opinion on the OpenVAERS site.  https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/OpenVAERS

 

It's interesting they never outright accuse the site of falsifying data, or pulling numbers out of their a$$, but rather of "decontextualization".  "You take a bit of information and you remove all the other context from it."

 

I've seen a lot of researchers spin data by overcontextualizing it.  You can make a big scary number look less ominous by breaking it down into smaller bite-sized pieces.  

 

Take the total vaccine deaths reported to VAERS, and break them down by various vaccine brand, by year, by cause of death, by demographic, etc.  Next thing you know, you've got a mish-mash of smaller numbers and confusing variables that aren't nearly so spooky as that big ugly number you started with.  

 

If OpenVAERS data is fraudulent, why not just come out & say it?  It can't be that hard to verify...  Or can it?  Far more likely, we simply can't handle the truth, so let's keep it obscured by the clouds of government oversight, and cancel & shame those who attempt to provide enlightenment.  

[Dorian Grey]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC10043970/

 

This is probably as good as it gets. If you want to do your own statistical analyses, go right ahead and post them here.

 

Skimmed through this paper.  A whole lot of talk on injection site pain, fever & even some allergic reaction.  A search for the word "death" produces only one result in the conclusion, which was not associated with VAERS/vaccine reports.  Zero results searching for "died" & "fatal".  

 

Could it be there was not a single report of vaccine associated death to the VAERS system during the time monitored?  Or would the truth about any reports of death be something us simple folk couldn't handle?  

 

Where's the data on vaccine associated deaths reported to VAERS?  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 28 June 2023 - 08:02 PM.

[smithx]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC10043970/

 

This is probably as good as it gets. If you want to do your own statistical analyses, go right ahead and post them here.

 

Did anyone click on the link before rating it as pointless? I feel like we have a lot of lazy reactionary people here who have fixed opinions and shouldn't be on a science forum, because the entire point of science is that you CHANGE YOUR MIND when you see NEW DATA.

 

The request was for an analysis of VAERS data because for some reason 9 million hospital records of COVID patients weren't sufficient. The title of this article is:
 

Real-life safety profile of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19: An analysis of VAERS database

 

I think that sort of fits the request, for any who deigned to click through.

Edited by smithx, 28 June 2023 - 10:32 PM.

[smithx]

Skimmed through this paper.  A whole lot of talk on injection site pain, fever & even some allergic reaction.  A search for the word "death" produces only one result in the conclusion, which was not associated with VAERS/vaccine reports.  Zero results searching for "died" & "fatal".  

 

Could it be there was not a single report of vaccine associated death to the VAERS system during the time monitored?  Or would the truth about any reports of death be something us simple folk couldn't handle?  

 

Where's the data on vaccine associated deaths reported to VAERS?  

 

Maybe because there actually are no vaccine associated deaths and the 32K deaths figure you keep quoting is just anti-vax misinformation?

If the data don't show something, the logical conclusion is that it is not there.

[Gal220]

Maybe because there actually are no vaccine associated deaths and the 32K deaths figure you keep quoting is just anti-vax misinformation?

If the data don't show something, the logical conclusion is that it is not there.

 

The clinical trial had more jab deaths than the placebo arm

(1) Wittgenstein on Twitter: "Ed Dowd: Pfizer knew, in their clinical trials, that more people died in the vaccine group than the placebo group Source: https://t.co/TdXsT6lnyJ https://t.co/GTp1r2TYWu" / Twitter

 

 

 

Recent evidence shows a large number of placebos in Denmark

(1) TexasLindsay™ on Twitter: "NEW: Scientists claim to have startling evidence that estimates approximately 30% of Pfizer- BioNTech’s vaccine batches deployed in Denmark

[Dorian Grey]

Maybe because there actually are no vaccine associated deaths and the 32K deaths figure you keep quoting is just anti-vax misinformation?

If the data don't show something, the logical conclusion is that it is not there.

 

I actually recall a thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) widely reported in a doctor who died from the J&J jab, so the number ain't zero.  

 

I would hope an analysis on vaccine safety & VAERS might think to mention there was not a single reported death if this was in fact the case.  

 

You're spinnin' yer wheels deeper & deeper into the mud mate.  You don't give hundreds of millions of doses of a new vaccine with zero deaths reported.  

 

The VAERS data is supposed to be available from the VAERS site.  All you have to do is find it.  

[Dorian Grey]

A clue!  https://www.cdc.gov/...VAERS-data.html

 

How to Access VAERS Data through VAERS WONDER System

 

VAERS data (without patient-identifying information) are publicly available online through a system called CDC’s VAERS WONDER.

Below are step-by-step instructions on how to access the data from CDC’s VAERS WONDER System. The instructions can be printed: How to Access Data from CDC’s VAERS WONDER System pdf icon[PDF – 9 Pages]

A video is also available to demonstrate how to search VAERS data using CDC WONDER.  The video will explain the purpose of VAERS and strengths and limitations of VAERS data.

Getting Started

• Go to https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html. Read the Disclaimer box at the bottom of the page and click “I agree.”

[Daniel Cooper]

 

You don't give hundreds of millions of doses of a new vaccine with zero deaths reported.  

 

 

Hard to argue with that.

[Dorian Grey]

Ok, been havin' some fun on the VAERS Wonder System, & it's quite a site to behold.  It covers ALL symptoms & side effects from ALL vaccines of ALL types, from ALL time, so singling out the COVID vaccines & reported deaths one at a time took a bit of doing.  

 

Don't know if I even did the searches correctly, but I did come up with some data (updated Friday 6/16).  

 

Pfizer:      6318 

Moderna: 6392

J&J:         1474

 

Total:    14,184 reported COVID vaccine associated deaths.  Don't know if this is US only, or global.  

 

I did see some reported deaths had been removed.  Believe it was due to deaths occurring outside their established time window.  Apparently no way to look at these.  Don't know what other adjustments may have been done.  

 

Anywayz...  NOT ZERO as far as "reported" deaths, & as we know, anyone can report on VAERS, though the process is rather arduous & of course: Knowingly filing a false VAERS report with the intent to mislead the Department of Health and Human Services is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment.

Edited by Dorian Grey, 29 June 2023 - 01:22 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

I believe that VAERS should be US only. It's run by Health and Human Services so that's what you'd think.

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

I believe that VAERS should be US only. It's run by Health and Human Services so that's what you'd think.

 

Ok, now all we have to do is dig up the UK yellow card data, EU's EudraVigilance, Israel, Japan, India, China & Russia, and we might cover the globe fairly well.  

[Empiricus]

Maybe because there actually are no vaccine associated deaths and the 32K deaths figure you keep quoting is just anti-vax misinformation?

If the data don't show something, the logical conclusion is that it is not there.

 

The pharma-tech-media-medical-education cartel killed and injured many innocent people with their mRNA vaccines.  Now this powerful cartel is covering up their crime, assisted by millions of their victims in denial about their complacency.   It takes real courage for these people to reject the official narrative, a source of continued reassurance and comfort to victims.  

 

Words such as "anti-vaxxer" and "misinformation" were clearly planted in lexicon of our society years ago as part of the cartel's psychological operation.  Needless to say, they are hardly slurs anymore. 

[smithx]

I'm not sure how you searched, but the way that VAERS seems to work is that you have:

1. A vaccination

2. An event that takes place

3. Within a specified period of time

 

There is no cause-effect relationship that is established between the vaccination and the event, and the likelihood of causality would seem to decrease as the duration of time between the vaccination and the event increases.

 

So for example if someone gets vaccinated and then dies of some other cause, it could be attributed to the vaccine.

 

What I get if I search for all COVID vaccines and all days (all durations) with the symptom of "Death", is 9,616.

Up to 60 days after vaccination the number is 4,972

Up to 14 days it's 3,646

Up to 7 it's 2,997

 

Doing the same all days search with flu vaccines gives 713 deaths.

 

On the face of it this looks like COVID vaccines are more than 10 times worse, but it's probably not quite that simple because some percentage of the vaccines would have been given to people who got COVID before the immunity kicked in (or after), and who died of disease rather than the vaccine. Since COVID is supposed to have a much higher fatality rate than influenza, more people would have died after vaccination from that cause.

On the other hand, the numbers do seem to show that COVID vaccines are a lot more likely to cause death than influenza vaccines.

 

The net benefit of any treatment has to be calculated based on lives saved by the treatment vs lives lost because of the treatment. Nearly every paper I've seen finds that this calculation is very heavily weighted towards the vaccines being net beneficial, but probably not for every age group.

 

One point that is often or usually left out of the analysis, partly because it is unknown, is how much sub-clinical damage is done to a vaccinated vs an unvaccinated person if they get a 'mild' case of COVID-19. It may turn out that even the subgroups (teenage to early 20s men, for example) that where there appears to be a net negative instead of a net benefit, there is reduced damage and that there will be increased long term or late-life health status. But we don't know that yet and won't for a long time.

 

 

 

Don't know if I even did the searches correctly, but I did come up with some data (updated Friday 6/16).  

 

Pfizer:      6318 

Moderna: 6392

J&J:         1474

 

Total:    14,184 reported COVID vaccine associated deaths.  Don't know if this is US only, or global. 

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Fair enough mate, it seems we've come to a consensus. 

 

There is some risk that comes along with the rewards of vaccines. 

 

How much risk appears to vary, depending on how you filter the data.  

 

I hope we can all agree, where there is risk, there must also be informed consent, and the ethics of coercion must be considered.  

[Mind]

I'm not sure how you searched, but the way that VAERS seems to work is that you have:

1. A vaccination

2. An event that takes place

3. Within a specified period of time

 

There is no cause-effect relationship that is established between the vaccination and the event, and the likelihood of causality would seem to decrease as the duration of time between the vaccination and the event increases.

 

So for example if someone gets vaccinated and then dies of some other cause, it could be attributed to the vaccine.

 

What I get if I search for all COVID vaccines and all days (all durations) with the symptom of "Death", is 9,616.

Up to 60 days after vaccination the number is 4,972

Up to 14 days it's 3,646

Up to 7 it's 2,997

 

Doing the same all days search with flu vaccines gives 713 deaths.

 

On the face of it this looks like COVID vaccines are more than 10 times worse, but it's probably not quite that simple because some percentage of the vaccines would have been given to people who got COVID before the immunity kicked in (or after), and who died of disease rather than the vaccine. Since COVID is supposed to have a much higher fatality rate than influenza, more people would have died after vaccination from that cause.

On the other hand, the numbers do seem to show that COVID vaccines are a lot more likely to cause death than influenza vaccines.

 

The net benefit of any treatment has to be calculated based on lives saved by the treatment vs lives lost because of the treatment. Nearly every paper I've seen finds that this calculation is very heavily weighted towards the vaccines being net beneficial, but probably not for every age group.

 

One point that is often or usually left out of the analysis, partly because it is unknown, is how much sub-clinical damage is done to a vaccinated vs an unvaccinated person if they get a 'mild' case of COVID-19. It may turn out that even the subgroups (teenage to early 20s men, for example) that where there appears to be a net negative instead of a net benefit, there is reduced damage and that there will be increased long term or late-life health status. But we don't know that yet and won't for a long time.

 

Don't forget that past studies found that VAERS underereports the true number of adverse events by up 100 times.

 

In addition, doctors and medical professionals have - in some states - been counseled to not report ANY adverse events.

 

Thousands of people are trying to be re-imbursed for their adverse events from the US vaccine injury compensation program. Of course, the US government is refusing to pay. The US government has been a true horror show of incompetence and unethical activity throughout the COVID panic.

 

____________________________________

 

On a different note, which has been discussed in this thread, the COVID injections have been found to be contaminated with graphene oxide, foreign DNA, and other mysterious substances (maybe it is just a small percentage, but recall, Japan temporarily halted the injections because of the contamination). Now, a group in Europe has found that a certain percentage of the injections appear to be placebos. Whistleblowers have brought forth evidence of fraud and deception during the Pfizer trials and others have tried to raise the alarm about contamination - of course, they are all still shouted down as conspiracy nuts, thankfully that tactic is getting worn out.

[Empiricus]

If VAERS data for Covid-19 vaccinations was mainly picking up illnesses and deaths attributable to other causes, VAERS reports should echo background rates of illness and mortality by age.

 

But what we find is that the patterns in the VAERS reports don't reflect the background rates of diseases by age. 

 

Moreover, common VAERS adverse events have been shown to be frequently observed by other reporting systems. In other words, the most common adverse events reported are consistent across various reporting systems.   

Edited by Empiricus, 29 June 2023 - 07:50 PM.

[gamesguru]

Maybe because there actually are no vaccine associated deaths and the 32K deaths figure you keep quoting is just anti-vax misinformation?

If the data don't show something, the logical conclusion is that it is not there.

 

There have definitely been vaccine-associated adverse events, with shortness of breath being the most common. And while I agree with the ballpark figure, maybe the true number of people who have died shortly after receiving a COVID vaccination is closer to 15-20K—but who knows. I'm not concerned about the exact figure.

 

What's more important here is to consider the number of COVID-related deaths and to compare that with the number of vaccine-associated deaths. Which is larger, by how much?

[Empiricus]

There have definitely been vaccine-associated adverse events, with shortness of breath being the most common. And while I agree with the ballpark figure, maybe the true number of people who have died shortly after receiving a COVID vaccination is closer to 15-20K—but who knows. I'm not concerned about the exact figure.

 

What's more important here is to consider the number of COVID-related deaths and to compare that with the number of vaccine-associated deaths. Which is larger, by how much?

 

Studies have estimated that VAERS underreports adverse events, including deaths, by 90% or more.  So 15-20K deaths translates to minimum 150,000+ deaths in the population (likely much higher though).  

 

Not only is it a pain to fill out the reports, but even when a teenager dies of heart attacks a few weeks after getting their third jab for COVID, their death is attributed to various other suspected causes such as over-exercising, red meat, the effects of climate change, or Sudden Adult Death Syndrome.  

There have definitely been vaccine-associated adverse events, with shortness of breath being the most common. And while I agree with the ballpark figure, maybe the true number of people who have died shortly after receiving a COVID vaccination is closer to 15-20K—but who knows. I'm not concerned about the exact figure.

 

What's more important here is to consider the number of COVID-related deaths and to compare that with the number of vaccine-associated deaths. Which is larger, by how much?

 

Studies have estimated that VAERS underreports adverse events, including deaths, by 90% or more.  So 15-20K deaths translates to minimum 150,000+ deaths in the population (likely much higher though).  

 

Not only is it a pain to fill out the reports, but even when a teenager dies of heart attacks a few weeks after getting their third jab for COVID, their death is attributed to various other suspected causes such as over-exercising, red meat, the effects of climate change, or Sudden Adult Death Syndrome.  

[Gal220]

There have definitely been vaccine-associated adverse events, with shortness of breath being the most common. And while I agree with the ballpark figure, maybe the true number of people who have died shortly after receiving a COVID vaccination is closer to 15-20K—but who knows. I'm not concerned about the exact figure.

 

What's more important here is to consider the number of COVID-related deaths and to compare that with the number of vaccine-associated deaths. Which is larger, by how much?

 

Its the worst in Germany, forced the German Health Minister to do an interview confessing severe adverse events at 1 in 10,000.

 

Right after, the media immediately started covering all the adverse events, as if this was finally "permission" to do so.

 

 

What is the real number?  The excess deaths in 2020 that sent health agencies into a frenzy are oddly silent in 2023, all cause mortality which is even higher(and the most vulnerable have already passed).

Does anything else really need to be said? 

 

https://twitter.com/...562885315633152

 

The vaccine data is there, just not be released, by anyone..

https://twitter.com/...623550801666049

https://twitter.com/...810738053173255

Edited by Gal220, 06 July 2023 - 08:09 AM.

[gamesguru]

Studies have estimated that VAERS underreports adverse events, including deaths, by 90% or more.  So 15-20K deaths translates to minimum 150,000+ deaths in the population (likely much higher though). 

 

Again, this is a bold claim. I think it requires evidence, models, theories to back it up. To say "it was likely 150K, and oh sorry, actually it's likely much higher than that even," seems speculative, and I'm not sure what this claim is based on. There is a lot going on here, and it's important to analyze accurately.

 

 

Where are you getting your number for COVID-associated deaths, do you believe that number is over-reported? If so, I think there needs to be a rationale behind such a critique. Debate typically involves not just an exchange of ideas, but also sources, references, and supporting theory.

 

Its the worst in Germany, forced the German Health Minister to do an interview confessing severe adverse events at 1 in 10,000.

 

Right after, the media immediately started covering all the adverse events, as if this was finally "permission" to do so.

 

 

What is the real number?  The excess deaths in 2020 that sent health agencies into a frenzy are oddly silent in 2023, all cause mortality which is even higher(and the most vulnerable have already passed).

Does anything else really need to be said? 

 

https://twitter.com/...562885315633152

 

The vaccine data is there, just not be released, by anyone..

https://twitter.com/...623550801666049

https://twitter.com/...810738053173255

 

I don't agree the media only recently started covering vaccine-associated adverse events. There needs to be more evidence, and it can't be circumstantial. So far all I've seen is the excess death studies—which seem to be undermined by a lack of authority of the authors and other methodological flaws. We can go more in depth into those and give a thorough analysis. I'm still trying to get a list of the sources you use to support these claims, so I can adequately respond.

 

Here's a video from October 2021, again almost two years ago.

 

 

Regarding the Doctor's posts on twitter claiming excess death stats have not been released, they have for many countries. You can see Europe is basically back to baseline. I'm not sure who this Doctor is, but she doesn't include citations for anything, or even specify the country. Is that US or UK?

 

 

Monthly excess mortality in the EU
Source: Eurostat (demo_mexrt)

[Gal220]

"Regarding the Doctor's posts on twitter claiming excess death stats have not been released, they have for many countries"

 

The first link showng more deaths in 2023 is for the UK using ONS data(office of national statistics), you can see the chart right in her post

 

Her other claim, is no country is releasing data on vaccinated death vs un-vaccinated.  They do have it though...

 

 

Lancet preprint found 74% of 325 deaths were caused by the vaccine, they have taken it down.  Whether with good cause or not, the question reamains. why aren't there more studies

Toby Young on Twitter: "A Lancet review of 325 autopsies after Covid vaccination found that 74% of the deaths were caused by the vaccine – but the journal removed the study within 24 hours. Read it here. https://t.co/4UDFTjGLAo" / Twitter

 

 

 

Edited by Gal220, 06 July 2023 - 02:02 PM.

[gamesguru]

Yes and afaik those with a recent vaccination are at lowest risk of extreme complication from COVID-related disease.

 

I think if there are excess deaths in the UK, we need to analyze possible sources rather than pinning it exclusively on the vaccine. We need to identify biological mechanisms which would result in vaccine associated deaths. We need to quantify and record those deaths. These are areas where the analysis is lacking.

 

According to some sources, the 2022 excess death rate in England and Wales is up about 40,000 per year. So we can either claim all 40,000 exactly are due to the vaccine and close the case, or we can delve a little deeper.

 

Other possible sources of increased mortality since 2020 include elevated automotive accidents, drug abuse[2][4], homicide, heat waves[1], mortality displacement[3], hospital strain[6][7], as well as COVID-19 itself[3][5][8].

 

References

 

[1] https://www.gov.uk/g...ing-report-2022

 

[2] Drug and alcohol treatment sees rise in deaths in England. 2021 Nov. https://www.bbc.com/...health-59417105

 

[3] What is driving excess deaths in England and Wales? BMJ 2022; 379 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o2524 (Published 20 October 2022)

 

[4] Ghose, R., Forati, A. M., & Mantsch, J. R. (2022). Impact of the COVID-19 Pandemic on Opioid Overdose Deaths: a Spatiotemporal Analysis. Journal of urban health : bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, 99(2), 316–327. https://doi.org/10.1...524-022-00610-0

 

[5] Han, L., Zhao, S., Li, S. et al. Excess cardiovascular mortality across multiple COVID-19 waves in the United States from March 2020 to March 2022. Nat Cardiovasc Res 2, 322–333 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1...161-023-00220-2

 

[6] French, G., Hulse, M., Nguyen, D., Sobotka, K., Webster, K., Corman, J., Aboagye-Nyame, B., Dion, M., Johnson, M., Zalinger, B., & Ewing, M. (2021). Impact of Hospital Strain on Excess Deaths During the COVID-19 Pandemic - United States, July 2020-July 2021. MMWR. Morbidity and mortality weekly report, 70(46), 1613–1616. https://doi.org/10.15585/mmwr.mm7046a5

 

[7] Understanding the concept of excess mortality; Analysis of direct and indirect effects of COVID-19 on cancer care services in the United Kingdom. https://www.aspher.o...-pc-summary.pdf

 

[8] Lewnard, J. A., B, C. M., Kang, G., & Laxminarayan, R. (2023). Attributed causes of excess mortality during the COVID-19 pandemic in a south Indian city. Nature communications, 14(1), 3563. https://doi.org/10.1...467-023-39322-7

 

 

[Gal220]

"According to some sources, the 2022 excess death rate in England and Wales is up about 40,000 per year. So we can either claim all 40,000 exactly are due to the vaccine and close the case, or we can delve a little deeper."

 

​As I said, there is no interest in digging deeper, despite numbers being worse than 2020 when health agencies were in an uproar

 

Requests are being made(Andrew Bridgen in their parliament) and many citizens, but there is no interest in cutting their own throats... 

[gamesguru]

There ought to be an interest in digging deeper.

 

I shared a diagram of Europe in post #1041. It shows that some countries are reporting lower mortality compared to pre-pandemic. Any thoughts on the idea that this may be due to chance, statistical noise which tends to even out over larger sample sizes—and that the UK is maybe just an example of one country with higher mortality?

 

It's worth noting that around 50 deaths a day are still being reported in the UK due to COVID-19. That's nearly 20,000 per year. Any thoughts on the idea that COVID-19 itself may largely explain the UK's excess mortality?

 

I still didn't see any support of the claim that the openVAERS database is massively underestimating fatalities. It seems wildly speculative to claim that.

[Gal220]

"Any thoughts on the idea that this may be due to chance, statistical noise which tends to even out over larger sample sizes"

 

There are many variables

 

-How much of the shot leaked into your blood, some people with serious side effects report tasting the vaccine.  Aspiration would have helped

-Shots created vulnerability the week after, not good if you were in a hot spot at the time

-Some shots were not properly kept, mRNA needs proper handling, basically a placebo at that point

-Shots after a recent infection were 3x more likely to have adverse events(ZOE app data of 600k users).  No one already infected should have got a shot

-Shots are cumulative. Like any medication, more jabs, the more adverse events

-Poor health conditions were made worse.  People recovering from cancer relapsed.  Younger people experiencing cancer

 

Recently

-Denmark study showed 70% of adverse events were from 4% of the batches , this will vary country to country.  It takes years to get a clean manufacturing process in place, some countries did better

-They also found a third of the vaccine batches were PLACEBO.. was this the same everywhere?  Obviously these folks had no side effects

 

Giuseppe Guarriello on Twitter: "BOMBSHELL! One in Three Pfizer Vaccine Shots May Have Been a Placebo https://t.co/mjMQbUvAEg - Apparently this happened in Denmark…" / Twitter

Viral Vaccine paper - YouTube

[Gal220]

They have learned though, most recent booster is a quarter of the original shot and 2 shots are no longer recommended, so it is essentially 1/8 of the original

Many people only had a reaction to the 2nd shot(especially myocarditis)

 

So should be far fewer adverse events, just took 2+ years to figure it out(the general population became the clinical trial).  Is the mfg process clean now? doubtful

 

Did The FDA Just Admit That It Overdosed People With COVID Vaccines? (emerald.tv)

Edited by Gal220, 06 July 2023 - 09:04 PM.

[gamesguru]

Aspiration / injecting into an artery.

This seems like a random issue, not correlated to specific batches or geographical regions.

 

Vaccines not stored at low enough temperatures, expiring, otherwise placebo

Same as above, random error. Expected on a certain level.

 

Poor health conditions made worse

It's not clear this is due to the vaccine, or COVID itself and the resulting health care strain, the psychosocial effects of isolation, etc. Need to examine specific studies linking it.

 

Denmark showing batch-dependent safety of vaccine.

I found the article on Google scholar and found articles citing it, only 2 since it is a recent publication. They seem to be interpreting it as a likely issue with dose or composition. This highlights the need for independent quality testing and verification. But until this is reproduced in multiple studies, it's not clear if this is a systemic issue or due to a one time error.

[Gal220]

"Same as above, random error. Expected on a certain level."

 

Some countries did better... I believe Denmark is one of the few countries to aspirate as part of their vaccination protocol

Germany did the worst with 40% excess death, leaving their Health Minister to answer some pointy questions

 

 

You mention more studies, there should be many more, but scientific curiousity seems to have been stymied.   

The recent Lancet study retracted

 

Hard to get information out, its easy to see whats going on if you are keeping up.

Edited by Gal220, 06 July 2023 - 09:57 PM.

[smithx]

Here's the difference between reasonable people and those with an axe to grind:

 

Reasonable people listen to evidence.

Those with an axe to grind ignore evidence unless it suits their preconceived notions.

 

I think there are too many of the latter on this forum now and in this thread.

That being said, I'm not one of them. Here's some evidence that vaccines can cause long-covid-like symptoms sometimes. It does still seem to be quite rare: 

 

Rare link between coronavirus vaccines and Long Covid–like illness starts to gain acceptance
Studies probe unusual cases of neurologic complications, blood pressure swings, and other side effects

https://www.science....gain-acceptance

 

 

Edited by smithx, 07 July 2023 - 03:30 AM.