2089 replies to this topic

[Hip]

"On catching it again the long COVID became more permanent."
 
Hip's language is problematic. Something that's been around only three years cannot be said to have any permanence whatsoever.  Since the beginning the media has been fear-mongering that LC might be permanent.

 

 

Your lack of background reading about myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) does not inspire much confidence in your views on the subject.

 

 

Myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) has been around since the 1950s. The name myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) was coined after the famous Royal Free Hospital outbreak of ME/CFS in London in 1955.

 

ME/CFS is a well-characterised disease, and every study on long COVID indicates LC is pretty much identical to ME/CFS. (Yes, there are other forms of LC, like LC based on POTS, or LC based on heart or lung damage, but I am referring here to the ME/CFS form of LC).

 

So given that ME/CFS is often a life-long affliction, the chances are that LC will be long-lasting too.

 

We also have data from the SARS-CoV-1 pandemic of 2003, where many people developed ME/CFS, and still have that ME/CFS today, 20 years later. 

 

In fact if you read ME/CFS forums, people such as myself were predicting COVID might create lots of new cases of ME/CFS even before the first case of long COVID appeared, based on what happened with the first SARS pandemic of 2003.

 

 

The purpose of this spin on LC was to frighten people into taking the vaccines. Such cynical behavior on the part of the healthcare establishment and media. They drove a small group of LC victims into the worst depression to sell the masses on something they don't need.  
 
Our knowledge of treating of LC has always been far outstripped our knowledge of treating mRNA injection injuries. That's another reason it was always a mistake to promote the latter as a means to avoid the former.

 
Nonsense!

 

It has been demonstrated that vaccination offers only minor protection from developing long COVID. Different studies have come up with different figures, but if we take an average figure, COVID vaccination only reduces your chances of getting long COVID by about 30%.

 

So while vaccination is still a good idea, since 30% is better than nothing, it's not the magic pill that will protect you from LC.

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 18 July 2023 - 03:41 PM.

[Hip]

I would suggest, Empiricus, that you look into metformin, which you could consider taking if you are hit by COVID again. A study found metformin reduces the chances of getting long COVID. I've got my emergency supply of metformin in case I catch COVID again.

 

 

Since you already developed the ME/CFS form of long COVID once before (but were lucky enough to recover), that suggests something in your body makes you vulnerable to getting ME/CFS from viral infections. 

 

Did you ever take long courses of antibiotics as a child? One study found that many ME/CFS patients have a history of taking repeated heavy duty antibiotics during childhood.

 

Since the gut microbiome has been linked to ME/CFS, the theory is that heavy antibiotic use may cause bacteria to build biofilm communities in the gut, since biofilms protect against antibiotics and protect against the immune system, and bacteria make more biofilms when being attacked by antibiotics. Once you have a lot of biofilm bacterial infections in your intestines, this can lead to bacterial dysbiosis in the gut.

 

Biofilm bacteria are largely invulnerable to further courses of antibiotics (and more antibiotics may only serve to increase the amount of biofilm even further). These biofilm bacteria will secrete a range of nasty bacterial toxins. There is one theory that ME/CFS is caused by bacterial toxins from the gut leaking into the systemic circulation, thus poisoning every organ in the body, and causing the symptoms of ME/CFS or long COVID.

 

 

Edited by Hip, 18 July 2023 - 04:53 PM.

[Gal220]

More insurance claim data from the UK

 

"If you look at this chart, [increased claims in] different body systems started off slowly in 2020, picked up speed in 21, and just exploded in 2022"

 

Hematological - 522%

Auditory - 121%

Cardiovascular - 121%

Endocrine, metabolic, and thermoregulation - 156%

Gastrointestinal - 145%

Genito-urinary - 143%

 

 

[Gal220]

New study disccussed by John Campbell

"One in 35 https://youtu.be/cd_RTf_ForA via @YouTube One in 35 recipients (2.8%) had vaccine-associated myocardial injury.

 

If this is not suspended at once, the lunatics have well and truly taken over the regulatory asylum."

 

 

 

McCullough adds this comment

"Autopsy proven fatal #CovidVaccine myocarditis reported in this paper is just the very tip of the iceberg

because the condition is under-recognized by vaccinated doctors; deaths rarely undergo autopsies."

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=cd_RTf_ForA

Edited by Gal220, 26 July 2023 - 04:54 PM.

[Mind]

The son of LeBron James suffered a cardiac arrest while playing basketball.

 

No one ever heard of myocarditis or pericarditis before the COVID injections. Now I even know injected people who have the condition (plus previously young and healthy people who suffered strokes, brain bleeding, vision problems, and other mysterious chronic conditions post-injection). Athletes used to collapse on the field to the tune of around 100 per year (study posted earlier in this discussion), in the last 2 years it is now well over 1000/year.

 

Not only are athletes collapsing and dying, other TV personalities as well.

 

Yet the media keeps screaming. It is not the COVID injection. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT THE COVID INJECTION!

 

Even though all of these severe side effects and deaths were observed in both the rushed sloppy Pfizer trail and the Moderna trial.

 

As the death toll mounts, people might start turning on the media who keeps ignoring the problem and trashing anyone who brings forth the data, like this: Scandinavian study finds that myocarditis rates skyrocketed post-injection - but don't worry - the authors say that the people who got myocarditis post-injection fared a little better in 90 day follow-ups vs regular cases of myocarditis. So everything is just fine. LOL.

 

It is funny to look back at CNN warning about past vaccine DISASTERS. Of course, when Trump was leading the development, they had to do all they could to trash the mRNA injections. Now they trash anyone who speaks against them. CNN is a total clown show - as is most of the US National media.

 

[Mind]

Another media personality suffers a cardiac event due to blood clots.

 

One study found a 60% increase in blood clotting disorders during both the Pfizer and Moderna trials. I am sure the researchers are probably anti-vax crackpots and need to be censored, right? I am sure the study is total rubbish, like hundreds of other PEER-REVIEWED studies investigating the COVID injection side effects and deaths, right?

[Empiricus]

Quote from BBC's attempt to deflect allegations the vaccine was to blame for the kid's heart attack:

 

Glen Pyle, a professor who researches heart disease, said sudden cardiac incidents in athletes were not new, and had not increased following Covid vaccine rollouts.

 

He said speculating on this issue was, "irresponsible for anyone, but high profile people in particular".  

 

He added that linking Covid vaccines and cardiac arrest might "instil fear of a non-existent problem" that could discourage vaccination and therefore actually increase the risk of heart issues, which are "well-known to be linked to Covid". 

 

 

The logic of that last statement strikes me as rather torturous.

 

I never imagined the cover-up (and the vaccinations!) would go on this long. What will it take for these vaccines to be recognized for what they are?  To what lengths will the perpetrators go to avoid blame?  

Edited by Empiricus, 26 July 2023 - 08:49 PM.

[gamesguru]

Another media personality suffers a cardiac event due to blood clots.

 

One study found a 60% increase in blood clotting disorders during both the Pfizer and Moderna trials. I am sure the researchers are probably anti-vax crackpots and need to be censored, right? I am sure the study is total rubbish, like hundreds of other PEER-REVIEWED studies investigating the COVID injection side effects and deaths, right?

 

Statistics like this need to be interpreted cautiously. I've pointed out the importance previously of understanding Bayesian inference here.

 

We should not be comparing absolute risks in relative terms. This is a recipe for disaster. One might say stress increases the risk of some obscure type of cancer by 60%, but if that cancer is exceedingly rare to begin with, what harm is there in being stressed? To answer this question, an absolute comparison is necessary. What are the disadvantages of not being stressed? Perhaps you will be lazy, not accomplish your job, or in the worst case, fail to avoid an oncoming vehicle and die. Considering the potential positives of having a normal stress response, the negatives of the increased risk of super obscure cancer are dominated by the positive benefits.

 

The study itself claims "our study points to the need for formal harm-benefit analyses, particularly those that are stratified according to risk."

 

And we have established earlier in this thread that young people are surprisingly—with their more aggressive immune responses—the ones far more likely to experience adverse events.

 

Given the strong negative association between age bracket and vaccine risk, I cannot think it wise to issue blanket statements against the vaccine—but rather to make prescriptions based on age bracket and individual pre-existing conditions.

 

We must not retreat to extremes in the proper discourse of science. We do ourselves and others a disservice by peddling dogmas and untruths. This is something which is happening on both sides. It's important to have an honest and balanced discussion about risks and rewards.

[Hip]

The logic of that last statement strikes me as rather torturous.

 

Why? Are you not aware of the massive numbers of people who developed physical heart damage after COVID infection? Are you in denial of this fact?

[Empiricus]

Why? Are you not aware of the massive numbers of people who developed physical heart damage after COVID infection? Are you in denial of this fact?

 

Relative risk, Hip. Studies show rate of heart injury is much higher post vaccines than post-COVID.  https://onlinelibrar....1002/ejhf.2978

[Hip]

Relative risk, Hip. Studies show rate of heart injury is much higher post vaccines than post-COVID.  https://onlinelibrar....1002/ejhf.2978

 

What are your figures for the number of people globally with COVID vaccine-induced heart issues that are medically significant (by significant I mean you may have to take time off work, or may become permanently disabled, and feel generally pretty ill because of the ongoing heart damage issue).

 

 

My figures for the number of people with COVID infection-induced chronic heart or lung damage are these:

 

Around 6 million people globally have long-term heart or lung damage after catching COVID.

 

 

 

This 6 million is based on the fact that there are 65 million long COVID patients in the world (and this number keeps going up), and according to a poll I conduced on one of the Facebook long COVID groups, and 9% of these long COVID cases had long-term heart or lung damage:

 

RESULTS OF POLL ASKING LONG COVID PATIENTS WHICH FORM OF LONG COVID THEY HAVE:

• 46% had the ME/CFS form of long COVID
• 20% had dysautonomia (such as POTS, NMH, temperature intolerance, etc) where the autonomic nervous system dysfunctions
• 13% had post-viral fatigue which had improved by at least 50% over time 
• 6% had heart and lung damage that had improved by at least 50% over time
• 3% had heart and lung damage that had not improved over time
• 1% had silent hypoxia (where blood oxygen saturation level go down to as low as 80%)

Edited by Hip, 27 July 2023 - 03:42 PM.

[Empiricus]

 

What are your figures for the number of people globally with COVID vaccine-induced heart issues that are medically significant (by significant I mean you may have to take time off work, or may become permanently disabled, and feel generally pretty ill because of the ongoing heart damage issue).

 

My figures for the number of people with COVID infection-induced chronic heart or lung damage are these:

 

Around 6 million people globally have long-term heart or lung damage after catching COVID.

 

This 6 million is based on the fact that there are 65 million long COVID patients in the world (and this number keeps going up), and according to a poll I conduced on one of the Facebook long COVID groups, and 9% of these long COVID cases had long-term heart or lung damage:

 

RESULTS OF POLL ASKING LONG COVID PATIENTS WHICH FORM OF LONG COVID THEY HAVE:

• 46% had the ME/CFS form of long COVID
• 20% had dysautonomia (such as POTS, NMH, temperature intolerance, etc) where the autonomic nervous system dysfunctions
• 13% had post-viral fatigue which had improved by at least 50% over time 
• 6% had heart and lung damage that had improved by at least 50% over time
• 3% had heart and lung damage that had not improved over time
• 1% had silent hypoxia (where blood oxygen saturation level go down to as low as 80%)

 

I haven't come across many "long COVID" studies that controlled for vaccine injuries.  That's a huge problem because the symptoms overlap considerably. 

 

You say 6 million have heart damage from COVID.  We are told that 5.5 billion have been vaccinated for COVID.  If 3% of vaccinated people had their hearts damaged by the vaccines--as per the recent peer-reviewed study--then the vaccines damaged 165 million hearts.  

 

I don't see how preventing heart damage from COVID is an argument for getting the vaccine.

Edited by Empiricus, 28 July 2023 - 05:31 PM.

[Hip]

I haven't come across many "long COVID" studies that controlled for vaccine injuries.  That's a huge problem because the symptoms overlap considerably. 
 
You say 6 million have heart damage from COVID.  We are told that 5.5 billion have been vaccinated for COVID.  If 3% of vaccinated people had their hearts damaged by the vaccines--as per the recent peer-reviewed study--then the vaccines damaged 165 million hearts.

 
The paper you linked to does not detail any medically significant heart damage, it only uncovered "mild and transient" myocardial issues. No actual cases of myocarditis. Also your study had no control group, so not a good study.   

 

 

Control for vaccine injury is automatic when you speak to patients, because people know if their long COVID was vaccine-induced or COVID infection-induced.

 

Vaccine-induced long COVID hits hard and fast: if you spend some time talking to people on long COVID forums, these patients will tell you that they were hit with full-blown long COVID of the ME/CFS form within a few days of a COVID vaccination. So it is very clear when the cause is the vaccine.

 

Other vaccinations can also cause ME/CFS, especially the hepatitis B vaccine; and again, if you speak to patients, this happens within 2 or 3 days of a vaccination. 

 

 

I don't see how preventing heart damage from COVID is an argument for getting the vaccine.

 
A vaccine will reduce the ferocity of an acute infection, thus reducing the damage it causes, and the vaccine may also control the viral infection enough to prevent it entering into organs like the heart. So

Edited by Hip, 28 July 2023 - 05:52 PM.

[Gal220]

Moderna FOIA data out recently, of course they wouldn't release it willingly..

https://www.uncoverd...-on-mrna-shots/

 

"All the data from the Vaersaware.com site is fully downloadable in Excel format. The Excel worksheet makes it very easy to see the troubling “Lot Toxicity” in some of the lots in the ICAN dataset that is difficult for the average reader to parse."

 

 

https://twitter.com/...635731653492737

"The Moderna Files have begun to be released.

 

Autopsies not done after unexpected deaths in trial. High rates of Bells Palsy and Shingles."

[Mind]

 

What are your figures for the number of people globally with COVID vaccine-induced heart issues that are medically significant (by significant I mean you may have to take time off work, or may become permanently disabled, and feel generally pretty ill because of the ongoing heart damage issue).

 

 

My figures for the number of people with COVID infection-induced chronic heart or lung damage are these:

 

Around 6 million people globally have long-term heart or lung damage after catching COVID.

 

 

 

This 6 million is based on the fact that there are 65 million long COVID patients in the world (and this number keeps going up), and according to a poll I conduced on one of the Facebook long COVID groups, and 9% of these long COVID cases had long-term heart or lung damage:

 

RESULTS OF POLL ASKING LONG COVID PATIENTS WHICH FORM OF LONG COVID THEY HAVE:

• 46% had the ME/CFS form of long COVID
• 20% had dysautonomia (such as POTS, NMH, temperature intolerance, etc) where the autonomic nervous system dysfunctions
• 13% had post-viral fatigue which had improved by at least 50% over time 
• 6% had heart and lung damage that had improved by at least 50% over time
• 3% had heart and lung damage that had not improved over time
• 1% had silent hypoxia (where blood oxygen saturation level go down to as low as 80%)

 

 

How many times do we have to post peer-reviewed studies showing that there is little to no increase in myocarditis/pericarditis post COVID infection.

 

Experts can't figure out long COVID or how prevalent it really is. Many speculate it is hypochondria masquerading as an illness. I agree. When you have a group of people blaming every illness and every symptom on "Long COVID", it won't be easy to find if there is really something going on, something that can be scientifically proven.

[Hip]

How many times do we have to post peer-reviewed studies showing that there is little to no increase in myocarditis/pericarditis post COVID infection.

 

The heart damage found in the subset of long COVID patients with heart issues is not just myocarditis:

 

Heart symptoms persist in 10% of patients with long-COVID 

 

 

Recent studies have shown that long-term cardiac symptoms associated with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection can persist for months or even years. Chest discomfort, inflammatory heart disease, and arrhythmia, among other symptoms, are frequently observed. Heart muscle inflammation, or myocarditis, which can be directly caused by a viral infection, can progress to manifest into subclinical or overt myocardial dysfunction with or without electrophysiological abnormalities having long-term consequences.

Edited by Hip, 29 July 2023 - 02:47 PM.

[Empiricus]

How many times do we have to post peer-reviewed studies showing that there is little to no increase in myocarditis/pericarditis post COVID infection. 

 

I'm glad you reminded everyone of this fact.  It seems likely that heart damage attributed to long COVID is actually from the vaccines.  

[Hip]

I'm glad you reminded everyone of this fact.  It seems likely that heart damage attributed to long COVID is actually from the vaccines.

 
Rubbish, these heart and lung issues were reported right at the beginning of the pandemic, some 18 months before any vaccines were made available. Were you not paying attention at that time?

 

 
So many people are living in a dream world, where they believe Mother Nature is all good and benign, and only manmade factors cause harm. I know lots of people with such quaint goodness of Mother Nature beliefs. 

 

Sorry to shatter this rose-tinted view, but the fact is that infectious pathogens are the oldest enemy of mankind, responsible for massive amounts death and disease throughout human history. A truly formidable enemy.

 

And as we learn more about these viruses, bacteria, fungi and parasites which infect our bodies, we are realising that they may be responsible for even more death and disease that we imagined, with many chronic diseases and cancers whose cause was hitherto unknown now being linked to infectious pathogens.

 

Mother Nature is a bitch!

Edited by Hip, 29 July 2023 - 08:08 PM.

[Gal220]

Heart arrhythmia soars ‘astonishingly’ in UK | Frontline News

 

"According to Sky News, the BHF believes there may be 270,000 more people with the illness who are unaware of it. 

"These figures show a quite astonishing rise in the number of people diagnosed with atrial fibrillation,” said BHF Medical Director Dr. Sir Nilesh Samani. "

 

 

Something worth testing for if vaccinated

 

 

One in 35 myocardial injury - YouTube

Edited by Gal220, 31 July 2023 - 02:03 PM.

[Mind]

 
Rubbish, these heart and lung issues were reported right at the beginning of the pandemic, some 18 months before any vaccines were made available. Were you not paying attention at that time?

 

 
So many people are living in a dream world, where they believe Mother Nature is all good and benign, and only manmade factors cause harm. I know lots of people with such quaint goodness of Mother Nature beliefs. 

 

Sorry to shatter this rose-tinted view, but the fact is that infectious pathogens are the oldest enemy of mankind, responsible for massive amounts death and disease throughout human history. A truly formidable enemy.

 

And as we learn more about these viruses, bacteria, fungi and parasites which infect our bodies, we are realising that they may be responsible for even more death and disease that we imagined, with many chronic diseases and cancers whose cause was hitherto unknown now being linked to infectious pathogens.

 

Mother Nature is a bitch!

 

It is not rubbish, how many peer-reviewed studies need to be published and how many national level statistics need to be posted before it is not rubbish?

 

FOIA requests from HMOs in Israel show a dramatic increase in pulmonary embolism events after the COVID injections.

 

I am sure this is another "rubbish" study done by conspiracy nut-job wacko researchers who don't understand statistics, right? PEER-REVIEWED study found the myocarditis cases in the vaccinated were higher than previously thought.

[Hip]

It is not rubbish

 

 

What I said was rubbish was the statement that "it seems likely that heart damage attributed to long COVID is actually from the vaccines".

 

Studies published in 2020, which was before the vaccines were released, find that:

 

A growing number of studies suggest many COVID-19 survivors experience some type of heart damage, even if they didn't have underlying heart disease and weren't sick enough to be hospitalized.

 

Thus there was evidence of heart damage from COVID before the vaccines came on the scene.

[joesixpack]

What I said was rubbish was the statement that "it seems likely that heart damage attributed to long COVID is actually from the vaccines".

 

Studies published in 2020, which was before the vaccines were released, find that:

 

 

 

 

Thus there was evidence of heart damage from COVID before the vaccines came on the scene.

The vaccines caused heart damage and deaths. It is not deniable.

 

You need to take a few breathes and relax.

 

Live with the facts, and learn.

 

I would suggest, no more vaccines for anyone.  Not what you want to hear, but good advice. No need to reply.

 

Try to spare us all from your head exploding.

 

Good Night.

[Mind]

In country after country, citizens are suing or seeking compensation for their COVID injection injuries - even in Australia. Are they all dumb crazy conspiracy theorists? There are dozens of peer-reviewed studies, autopsies, and the mRNA trials themselves to back up the claims. To deny that there are side effects is willful blindness at this point.

 

Pfizer gives up on new mRNA COVID injections in India because India wanted a local trial to prove safety and effectiveness. That says a lot. They are giving up on tens of billions of dollars in current and future revenue, because they don't want to do a legit trial in India.

 

Israel data shows there were a lot of vaccine deaths in nursing homes. The "official count" of vaccine deaths was lower because they were not counting people who died within a week or two of the getting the 1st or 2nd dose. This is similar to how the incompetent CDC did not count cases of people who got COVID (or died) within month of getting their COVID injections when calculating "vaccine effectiveness". It is easy to manipulate the data in this way - just wait long enough until people stop dying or get side effects from the injection - and no surprise 100% safe and effective.

 

Even the booster shots were based upon bad data. The FDA approved the COVID boosters based upon 1 study. Researchers found a huge healthy user bias in the data - meaning the vaccinated not only fared better with COVID - but WITH ALMOST EVERY OTHER AILMENT tracked in the study. This means the data is mostly meaningless and the study should be retracted.

 

 

[Hip]

Israel data shows there were a lot of vaccine deaths in nursing homes. The "official count" of vaccine deaths was lower because they were not counting people who died within a week or two of the getting the 1st or 2nd dose. This is similar to how the incompetent CDC did not count cases of people who got COVID (or died) within month of getting their COVID injections when calculating "vaccine effectiveness". It is easy to manipulate the data in this way - just wait long enough until people stop dying or get side effects from the injection - and no surprise 100% safe and effective.

 

Such vaccine-induced deaths in the very elderly were discussed in the UK media right at the beginning of the vaccine rollout.

 

I remember in the media at the time doctors were saying that for very frail elderly people, the COVID vaccine might not be a good idea, as their bodies may not be able to take it, and that it could cause death, as there were some deaths in the very frail reported. So the information was out there from the start in the UK, and for very frail people, the decision on whether to vaccinate or not was left to them and their carers.

Edited by Hip, 01 August 2023 - 07:34 PM.

[Hip]

Try to spare us all from your head exploding.

 

I would definitely sue if my head exploded after reading a post on Longecity.

 

One would expect a certain level of bodily safety when reading posts on forums, and if a message were to induce cerebral detonation, I think there would be good grounds for litigation. 

[Daniel Cooper]

I would definitely sue if my head exploded after reading a post on Longecity.

 

One would expect a certain level of bodily safety when reading posts on forums, and if a message were to induce cerebral detonation, I think there would be good grounds for litigation. 

 

You should have read the fine print on the terms of service:

 

Neither Longecity.org nor any of its subsidiaries are responsible for exploding craniums.

[Hip]

Neither Longecity.org nor any of its subsidiaries are responsible for exploding craniums.

 

Ah yes, the standard get-out clause to prevent lawsuits against message-induced encephalo-explosivity.

[Daniel Cooper]

Did Pfizer ever agree to release their internal data on their vaccine in less than the 75 years they estimated the release would take?

 

That crazy claim of theirs that it would take three quarters of a century to release the data does not inspire one with confidence. 

[gamesguru]

Did Pfizer ever agree to release their internal data on their vaccine in less than the 75 years they estimated the release would take?

 

Yes, they did.

 

https://www.medpaget...xclusives/97544

[Daniel Cooper]

Yes, they did.

 

https://www.medpaget...xclusives/97544

 

Excellent.

 

However, the fact that they claimed it would take 75 years to release the documents (which was of course a lie) is somewhat disturbing.  "What are they trying to hide" isn't an unreasonable question to ask in response to that claim. 

 

As someone that took the first two shots, I'm hoping the answer to that is "nothing". Or at least "nothing much".