2102 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

I tend to take a dim view of diagnosing those with whom someone has a disagreement with a mental disorder. There is such a long and awful history of it in certain quarters.

 

 

 

 

[Mind]

Unlike the incompetent and unethical health bureaucrats in the US/UK, other countries of the world are tracking the serious side effects from the COVID injections and paying out compensation to thousands that have proven their injuries (and family member's deaths) were due to the COVID injections. 

 

If the other side effects weren't bad enough, leprosy is now being linked to the COVID injections. This should not be a surprise since shingles cases also rose after people got the COVID shots

 

Monitoring excess deaths in 2020 was all the rage - in order to spread unwarranted fear about COVID. Now that excess non-COVID deaths are soaring over the last couple of years, the topic is ignored, except for the "experts" proclaiming it is definitely not the shots, no way no how, impossible that there is anything at all wrong with the shots, and no side effects at all.

 

I kind-of feel sorry for some people in the US who have been shielded from seeing this information. It is possible that this Fall, hundreds of thousands in the UK/US will go Jim Jones-style to their demise.

[Hip]

I tend to take a dim view of diagnosing those with whom someone has a disagreement with a mental disorder. There is such a long and awful history of it in certain quarters.

 

I know what you are saying, but sometimes in order to find the right explanation for the issues at hand, you have to take mental health into consideration.

 

Take the case of alien abduction experiences, where people claim to be taken onboard an alien spacecraft and have their bodies examined by aliens. Are you really going to take that report at face value, or do you start considering whether the person has hallucinated these experiences due to psychiatric condition?

 

It is known that alien abduction experiences can be triggered by temporal lobe epilepsy; seizures in the temporal lobe of the brain are linked to all sorts of strange paranormal experiences.

 

 

In the case of these COVID threads, there appears to be an inordinate amount of vaccine phobia, far more than you would expect from taking a random cross section of the population. So there must be an explanation for that fear of the vaccine, and I don't think you are going find the explanation unless you consider mental health factors. Though of course with the stigma attached to any mental health issues, people may not want to talk about such things. 

Edited by Hip, 15 August 2023 - 06:39 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

I know what you are saying, but sometimes in order to find the right explanation for the issues at hand, you have to take mental health into consideration.

 

Take the case of alien abduction experiences, where people claim to be taken onboard an alien spacecraft and have their bodies examined by aliens. Are you really going to take that report at face value, or do you start considering whether the person has hallucinated these experiences due to psychiatric condition?

 

It is known that alien abduction experiences can be triggered by temporal lobe epilepsy; seizures in the temporal lobe of the brain are linked to all sorts of strange paranormal experiences.

 

 

In the case of these COVID threads, there appears to be an inordinate amount of vaccine phobia, far more than you would expect from taking a random cross section of the population. So there must be an explanation for that fear of the vaccine, and I don't think you are going find the explanation unless you consider mental health factors. Though of course with the stigma attached to any mental health issues, people may not want to talk about such things. 

 

I'm sure you are aware that there are those that say ME/CFS is a mental disorder. I am not one of those people. But I suggest a great deal of care should be taken in diagnosing someone with a mental disorder because they happen not to agree with you.

 

Also, I don't see much of any "vaccine phobia" on Longecity in the general sense of the word. I very rarely run across a person here that is absolutely opposed to all vaccinations. I do see people that are opposed to this particular vaccine. Given the number of half truths and outright lies that have issued forth from public officials during this pandemic, that position isn't entirely unreasonable. It's at least understandable.

[Empiricus]

In the case of these COVID threads, there appears to be an inordinate amount of vaccine phobia, far more than you would expect from taking a random cross section of the population. So there must be an explanation for that fear of the vaccine, and I don't think you are going find the explanation unless you consider mental health factors. Though of course with the stigma attached to any mental health issues, people may not want to talk about such things. 

 

So researching the side-effects of the COVID vaccines causes vaccine-phobia but when the same people research COVID they do not show symptoms of COVID-phobia (masking-up in parks, isolating at home, using hand-sanitizer obsessively). You would think if they were prone to phobia, they would become phobic of whatever they were researching.  So maybe it's not their state of mind, but the knowledge they gain from this research. 

Edited by Empiricus, 15 August 2023 - 07:50 PM.

[Hip]

So researching the side-effects of the COVID vaccines causes vaccine-phobia but when the same people research COVID they do not show symptoms of COVID-phobia (masking-up in parks, isolating at home, using hand-sanitizer obsessively). You would think if they were prone to phobia, they would become phobic of whatever they were researching.  So maybe it's not their state of mind, but the knowledge they gain from this research. 

 

We are in an environment where the organised antivax institutions use emotional manipulation techniques to scare the willies out of people. I think this could be why there seems to be a stronger fear of the vaccine compared to fear of COVID itself, at least in some quarters (like on this forum).

 

Governments now want everyone back to work (otherwise we will have an economic disaster), so are now playing down any issues with COVID itself. 

 

Long COVID is truly a horror story, it really is the most fearful thing anyone could face, and people of all ages have a substantial chance of getting LC. But all of that is being brushed under the carpet, and you rarely see any mention of COVID death statistics or long COVID issues in the news these days. 

 

I bet if someone made a LC horror movie, and showed the public what LC is really like, it would create intense fear throughout the land, and people would become petrified of getting a COVID infection. 

Edited by Hip, 15 August 2023 - 09:03 PM.

[Hip]

I'm sure you are aware that there are those that say ME/CFS is a mental disorder. I am not one of those people. But I suggest a great deal of care should be taken in diagnosing someone with a mental disorder because they happen not to agree with you.

 

Not just ME/CFS, but a number of diseases are being painted as psychosomatic (or somatoform) by certain schools of psychiatry, which I strongly disagree with. 

 

Conditions like irritable bowel syndrome, irritable bladder syndrome, interstitial cystitis, fibromyalgia, chronic pelvic pain, lower back pain and vulvodynia have all been tarred with the psychosomatic brush.

 

People who suffer from these diseases are sometimes told by doctors or psychiatrists that their physical illness is "all in the mind".

 

 

In the past, conditions like multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's were considered psychosomatic. But once the physical basis for these diseases was identified, and lesions demonstrated on brain scans, etc, they stopped being classed as psychosomatic.

 

Unfortunately when a disease appears to have no physical abnormalities that can be detected in scans or blood tests, then these diseases often fall prey to these stupid psychiatrists who label them psychosomatic.

 

This issue of erroneously labelling a physical disease psychosomatic is a terrible problem, because it gets the patients gaslighted when they go to see a doctor. Patients are told "it's all in your mind". This is not the doctor's fault, as doctors are trained to believe these diseases are psychosomatic. The source of the problem is these stupid psychiatrists who think that diseases can be psychosomatic. In fact there is no good evidence that any disease is psychosomatic.

Edited by Hip, 15 August 2023 - 09:33 PM.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Hip wrote:

 

"This issue of erroneously labelling a physical disease psychosomatic is a terrible problem, because it gets the patients gaslighted when they go to see a doctor. Patients are told "it's all in your mind". This is not the doctor's fault, as doctors are trained to believe these diseases are psychosomatic. The source of the problem is these stupid psychiatrists who think that diseases can be psychosomatic. In fact there is no good evidence that any disease is psychosomatic."

 

The solution to the "labeling" problem, using your logic, would be to ban all discussion regarding the current medically-accepted practice of labeling some diseases as being psychosomatic. The ban would suppress/eliminate, on all platforms, those instances where an expressed opinion runs counter to that which was established during medical training. The facts that the psychiatrists are "stupid" and that there is a lack of "good evidence" should not be considered by those doing the banning. No discussions of "gaslighting" or "it's all in your mind" will be allowed. 

 

If banning/suppressing opinion and "false facts" needs to be done for "antivaxers" (your apparent stance, e.g. Mercola) then shouldn't it be done for opinions expressing the belief that no disease is psychosomatic? 

 

[Gal220]

Well health agencies and news media maybe ignoring the cause

https://twitter.com/...561951187624293

https://twitter.com/...360321993351168

 

 

 

But at at least UK's NHS is taking action...

https://twitter.com/...422995363889152

 

"NHS is launching a campaign to teach people common heart attack signs, as admissions in England are up by 7,000+ in 21/22 compared to the previous year-long period — Sky News"

[gamesguru]

Just reiterating the fact that statistics in England don't prove the vaccine is at cause.

Increased heart attack reports could be explained by healthcare strain, COVID itself, or socioeconomic factors. It's important to analyze all factors, rather than jumping to conclusions based on tenuous associations.

Edited by gamesguru, 16 August 2023 - 11:27 AM.

[Gal220]

Just reiterating the fact that statistics in England don't prove the vaccine is at cause.

Increased heart attack reports could be explained by healthcare strain, COVID itself, or socioeconomic factors. It's important to analyze all factors, rather than jumping to conclusions based on tenuous associations.

 

It was the 2nd link in the post

Link

 

I already posted the FOI data from Australia

Link

[gamesguru]

The 1st link only proves that openVAERS received most of its cardiac reports from the COVID vaccine (as opposed to flu or others).  It seems to be about a 1 in 2000 or 1 in 3000 risk.  The risk from COVID itself seems much greater, heart failure (non-fatal) is almost a 1 in 100 risk, atrial fibrillation is similar.

 

Xie, Y., Xu, E., Bowe, B., & Al-Aly, Z. (2022). Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19. Nature medicine, 28(3), 583–590. https://doi.org/10.1...591-022-01689-3

 

 

Regarding the 2nd link, the author seems slightly distraught.  His assumption is also flawed... he assumes because cardiac admissions were elevated in the 20-29 year old age group and the vaccine is tied to those cases, that the vaccine automatically explains cardiac admissions across all age groups.

 

As has been repeatedly iterated in this thread, the vaccine causes severe side effects far more frequently in younger people due to their more aggressive, healthy immune system & factors yet to be fully elucidated.  We need to stop making false inferences based on this.

 

COVID infection has been repeatedly & strongly associated with complications in older age brackets, and this has been reproduced by multiple peer-reviewed meta-analyses in high-impact journals.  This is an association which remains in place even after controlling for vaccination status and other concurrent, confounding variables.

 

It's important to remember even if two or three countries do show a correlation with vaccine & mortality, there may be other factors explaining this in those particular cases.  And there are plenty of counterexamples too, where vaccine adoption correlated negatively with mortality and some of these countries have been mentioned already (e.g. Lithuania).

Edited by gamesguru, 16 August 2023 - 04:02 PM.

[Hip]

The solution to the "labeling" problem, using your logic, would be to ban all discussion regarding the current medically-accepted practice of labeling some diseases as being psychosomatic. 

 

I would be in agreement with such a ban. 

 

Unfortunately in the West we have this thing called academic freedom, which means you cannot stop psychiatrists from researching and publishing papers on their idea that certain physical diseases are caused by psychological factors.

 

The sad thing is that these psychosomatic researchers influence doctors, so that when a patient goes to the doctor to complain of lower back pain without any detectable cause, for example, the doctor just tells the patient the pain is "all in your head", and ushers them out of the door.  

 

Interestingly enough, the mystery of inexplicable back pain has recently been linked to a bacterial infection of the spinal discs with anaerobic bacteria, especially the bacterium Propionibacterium acnes. 

 

So for all these years, shrinks were claiming back pain is psychosomatic, caused by psychological factors. Then all of a sudden, biomedical science comes along and finds a potential physical cause for this pain: a spinal disc infection.   

Edited by Hip, 16 August 2023 - 08:55 PM.

[Fonn]

you would bein agreemwnt with such a ban? what would you ban next? discussians about the dangers of covid vaxxines? you link to one study suggesting that a certain bacteria is linked to back pain? and then make a great leap and decide the problem is solved. You are a dangerous,reaxtionary person.

[Hip]

you would bein agreemwnt with such a ban? what would you ban next? discussians about the dangers of covid vaxxines? you link to one study suggesting that a certain bacteria is linked to back pain? and then make a great leap and decide the problem is solved. You are a dangerous,reaxtionary person.

 

I suspect your opinions are based on your ignorance of the subject.

 

If you were better informed, you would know that these psychosomatic psychiatrists often team up with disability insurance companies, to try to make diseases look as if they are "all in the mind" imaginary psychosomatic diseases. That way, the insurance companies do not have to pay out $billions on disability claims to patients who are sick with these illnesses. 

 

So the insurance companies pay these psychiatrists handsomely to "make diseases disappear". Much like you would pay a contract killer to make people disappear. There is a whole nefarious industry out there, surreptitiously funded by multinational insurance companies, which tries to make diseases look as if they are "all in the mind", so that insurance companies can increase their profits, at the expense of those who are ill.

 

Do you think that these psychiatrists are doing a good thing for the world by robbing money from sick people who need disability support? Do you want to give these dubious psychiatrists who are engaged in such malpractice a platform?

Edited by Hip, 16 August 2023 - 11:07 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Surely the irony is not lost on you Hip?

 

A significant percentage of the credentialed medical establishment thinks that ME/CFS is essentially a psychiatric disorder. In fact, you go back maybe 10-15 years and this was definitely the consensus view.

 

But, lay people such as yourself (Toms, Dicks, and Harrys if you will) who are sufferers of this disorder have made the case, by in large using the internet, to sway a lot of the medical establishment to the point that the tide has turned and now a great deal of doctors accept that ME/CFS is a physiological disorder.

 

But doesn't this go against your fundamental premise? That lay people really have no business questioning the decisions and authority of the credentialed professionals in any give field? In fact, given your own position, shouldn't those ME/CFS sufferers have been gatekept and prevented from questioning the consensus view of the medical establishment?

 

Ironically by your own position, you and your fellow sufferers should have been prevented from making the case that ME/CFS is a physiological disorder in the first place. After all, who were you to question doctors with your wild unproven theories?

[Hip]

Surely the irony is not lost on you Hip?

 

A significant percentage of the credentialed medical establishment thinks that ME/CFS is essentially a psychiatric disorder. In fact, you go back maybe 10-15 years and this was definitely the consensus view.

 

But, lay people such as yourself (Toms, Dicks, and Harrys if you will) who are sufferers of this disorder have made the case, by in large using the internet, to sway a lot of the medical establishment to the point that the tide has turned and now a great deal of doctors accept that ME/CFS is a physiological disorder.

 

But doesn't this go against your fundamental premise? That lay people really have no business questioning the decisions and authority of the credentialed professionals in any give field? In fact, given your own position, shouldn't those ME/CFS sufferers have been gatekept and prevented from questioning the consensus view of the medical establishment?

 

Ironically by your own position, you and your fellow sufferers should have been prevented from making the case that ME/CFS is a physiological disorder in the first place. After all, who were you to question doctors with your wild unproven theories?

 

You've got me there Daniel! I admit defeat!

 

No just joking! I think I can justify the political activism of the ME/CFS patient community against the psychosomatic views of the medical community: 

 

Normally you would not be in a situation where patients got it right, and the medical profession cocked up entirely. But this was the case with ME/CFS. 

 

However, it was not the scientific method that caused the the cock up, it was the bad politics originating with machiavellian multinational insurance corporations.

 

As I outlined about, various powerful multinational insurance companies wanted to make ME/CFS disappear. So they organised to make ME/CFS look as if is were an imaginary "all in the mind" illness that did not really exist. ME/CFS had always been viewed by the medical profession as a real neurological disease. But in the 1980s there was an 8-fold increase in ME/CFS incidence, and all these new disability claims were costing the insurance companies a fortune. So they decided to recast ME/CFS as psychosomatic condition, with the help of certain psychiatrists (called the Wessely School psychiatrists in the UK). 

 

So from about the 1990s onwards, ME/CFS became to be widely viewed as an imaginary "all in the mind" disease, and ME/CFS patients were thereafter just ignored by most biomedical science research. There were a few ME/CFS researchers who still understood that ME/CFS was a real disease, but most people in the medical profession became duped into thinking ME/CFS was psychosomatic. 

 

ME/CFS patients could not do much to protest, as many are housebound or entirely bedbound, so they could not go out demonstrating in the streets. 

 

Fortunately when the Internet came along, it allowed normally disabled ME/CFS patients to start online activist movements, and slowly over a period of 20 years, the ME/CFS patient community fought back online, and now ME/CFS is beginning to be seen again as a real disease (although there is still a long way to go). 

 

The point I am making is that this grave error made by the medical profession was caused by machiavellian actions of powerful corporates. So this was not about a scientific debate or disagreement, it was all down to scheming unscrupulous multinational insurance corporations.

Edited by Hip, 17 August 2023 - 02:40 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

The point I am making is that this grave error made by the medical profession was caused by machiavellian actions of powerful corporates. So this was not about a scientific debate or disagreement, it was all down to scheming unscrupulous multinational insurance corporations.

 

Doesn't that sound exactly like what the anti-covid19 vaxers are saying right now?

 

You'll have to forgive me but it sounds suspiciously like what you're saying is that "questioning the medical establishment is ok when we do it because our motives are pure and in any case we're right", but it's absolutely beyond the pale when those grubby types that in any case probably voted for Donald Trump question the wisdom of covid vaccines.

 

 

[Hip]

Doesn't that sound exactly like what the anti-covid19 vaxers are saying right now?

 

Not as far as I can see. Firstly, there is no evidence of any machiavellian conspiracy behind the COVID vaccines or the companies that make them. So the antivaxers cannot point to any corporate shenanigans as the source of their antivax motivations. 

 

Secondly, the antivaxers have not got science on their side: there is no scientific argument for shunning the COVID vaccine (unless you are a person with specific health sensitivities to any vaccine).

[Advocatus Diaboli]

From post #1249:

 

"Firstly, there is no evidence of any machiavellian conspiracy behind the COVID vaccines or the companies that make them."

 

And, on the other hand, reading the posts you make, you have presented no proof of a ME/CFS conspiracy, Hip.

 

"Secondly, the antivaxers have not got science on their side: there is no scientific argument for shunning the COVID vaccine (unless you are a person with specific health sensitivities to any vaccine)."--Citation for the part that isn't your exception?

 

 

So I, for one, am going to be shaving with Hitchens's razor until you cough up some authoritative links.

 

 

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 17 August 2023 - 05:32 AM.

[Empiricus]

Not as far as I can see. Firstly, there is no evidence of any machiavellian conspiracy behind the COVID vaccines or the companies that make them. So the antivaxers cannot point to any corporate shenanigans as the source of their antivax motivations. 

 

Secondly, the antivaxers have not got science on their side: there is no scientific argument for shunning the COVID vaccine (unless you are a person with specific health sensitivities to any vaccine).

 

Being aware of the mounting evidence, many of us strongly disagree with Hip on both points.  Most of us would agree Hip should have the right to communicate these opinions.  

 

The real problem is that people in positions of power and authority have claimed Hip's opinions constitute "truth" and used them as justification for depriving others of their liberties, human rights, and ultimately their health and lives. 

 

Even if the pharmaceutical companies and politicians had the public's best interest at heart in the vaccine roll-out, even if every study and every expert pointed to the vaccines being safe for everyone, no human being should have been discriminated against for declining to receive the vaccines.  

Edited by Empiricus, 17 August 2023 - 05:57 AM.

[Gal220]

Dr. Kory is stirring the excess death debate with a recent article in USA Today(surprising they printed it)

https://twitter.com/...ed_query&f=live

https://www.usatoday...hs/70542423007/

 

"cited insurance industry data showing a “stunning” 34% more working people, ages 35 to 44, died than expected in the last quarter of 2022, with above-average rates in other working-age groups, too."

"No one knows precisely what is driving the phenomenon, but there is an inexplicable lack of urgency to find out. A concerted investigation is in order."

 

These excess deaths were a big deal in 2020, and unlike Covid, the average death isn't above life expectancy.  Our health agencies have turned a blind eye... guilty conscious

 

 

Recent data out of Canada also causing a stir

https://twitter.com/...ed_query&f=live

https://twitter.com/...961461336100982

https://twitter.com/...953991637413980

Edited by Gal220, 17 August 2023 - 08:39 AM.

[Hip]

you have presented no proof of a ME/CFS conspiracy

 

Are you really interested in this? Usually this is only of interest to ME/CFS patients. But if you are interested, look up the articles of Professor Malcolm Hooper, Margaret Williams, and others.

 

In particular, see this document called Corporate Collusion, and search for the word "UNUM" (one of the chief insurance companies involved). 

 

UNUM insurance said "UNUM stands to lose millions if we do not move quickly to address this increasing problem [of the 5 to 8-fold increase in ME/CFS cases in the 1980s]".

 

 I could talk about this all day, since I've studied the details of this corporate scam in depth. 

 

 

 

Have you ever questioned why there are two names for ME/CFS, the original name of myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), plus a new name which was created in the 1980s, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS)?

 

There was no need to create the new label of CFS, since we already had an established name for the disease. So why was a duplicate disease name created, and given its own entry in the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) list?

 

It's because in the ICD classification, ME is categorised as a neurological disease. Therefore disability insurance companies could not wangle their way out of paying disability support for patients diagnosed with ME, as being classed as neurological, ME is strictly a physical condition.

 

So then in the 1980s, a new disease label called "chronic fatigue syndrome" was set up in the US. CFS was given its own code number in the ICD list of disease, a code distinct from the code for ME; and crucially, in the ICD classification, CFS was defined as a condition that can have psychological causes.

 

In the US, patients were then no longer diagnosed with ME, but were diagnosed with the newly-named condition of CFS. This then allowed insurance companies to withhold disability payment to patients, as insurance rules state that they do not have to pay long term disability support for psychological conditions and mental illness, only physical diseases and physical conditions. 

 

This cunning plan enabled disability insurance companies like UNUM and Swiss Re to avoid going bankrupt, and to remain in profit. But millions of ME/CFS patients of course were left without disability support, and so had to be cared for by their families. Worse still, UNUM's strategy resulted in the entire medical profession ignoring ME/CFS patients and cancelling all research into ME/CFS, as why would you waste any time on something which was an imaginary "all in the mind" condition?  

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 17 August 2023 - 03:48 PM.

[Hip]

Even if the pharmaceutical companies and politicians had the public's best interest at heart in the vaccine roll-out, even if every study and every expert pointed to the vaccines being safe for everyone, no human being should have been discriminated against for declining to receive the vaccines.  

 

Arguably the forceful methods that governments used to coerce vaccination were a result of all the antivax propaganda and scaremongering. Thus the antivaxers shot themselves in the foot, by running fearful antivax campaigns that scared the willies out of emotionally susceptible people.  

 

 

In any case, is not unprecedented to have vaccine mandates. In England in 1853, vaccination against the killer disease smallpox was made mandatory. 

 

Everyone in England was obliged to get a smallpox vaccination, and you were fined if you refused. This legal mandate continued in England right up until 1971, when mandatory vaccination was dropped, due to the fact that a global vaccination drive had completely eradicated the smallpox virus from the wild. This eradication of smallpox is one the great achievements of mass vaccination.

 

I believe in the US, different states also introduced laws to make smallpox vaccination compulsory. 

 

Had this smallpox vaccine mandate not been instituted, we would still have smallpox in circulation today, and thus people would have be vaccinated against it. But nobody needs smallpox vaccinations now, as the virus has been eliminated from the wild.

 

Smallpox was a very nasty disease, its kill rate was 30%, and even if it did not kill you, it could cause blindness, and permanent scars right across the body, especially on the face, were common.

[Mind]

Dozens of peer-reviewed studies highlighting the potential lethality of the COVID injections have been posted in this discussion - mostly from outside the US/UK. It is not irrational to consider this data. It does not make one an OCD anti-vax conspiracy nut deserving of censorship or worse.

 

On the flip side, the CDC, FDA, and various other health officials have lied to the public multiple times and they are still hiding data, refusing to release it to the public. Prior to the COVID panic, if academics or public health officials acted unethically in such brazen ways, they would be fired, outed, papers retracted, perhaps even fined or criminally prosecuted. In the present day madness - they are protected and held up as heroes. Sad.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re: post #1253

 

Thanks for the info, Hip.

 

It appears that the etiological nexus concerning purported effects of the COVID vaccines ("injections" a la Mind) is on track to follow the same trajectory as the ME/CFS oddyssey: i.e. the progression from denial by the medical establishment, et al., to acceptance.

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 17 August 2023 - 05:40 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

Had this smallpox vaccine mandate not been instituted, we would still have smallpox in circulation today, and thus people would have be vaccinated against it. But nobody needs smallpox vaccinations now, as the virus has been eliminated from the wild.

 

Smallpox was a very nasty disease, its kill rate was 30%, and even if it did not kill you, it could cause blindness, and permanent scars right across the body, especially on the face, were common.

 

The thing is, the smallpox vaccine was both highly effective at preventing infection and transmission, and was very long lasting (3-5 years). And as a DNA virus, smallpox evolved very slowly.

 

So the smallpox vaccine always had an excellent change of eradicating smallpox from the wild, which it of course did.

 

The covid-19 vaccine on the other hand is not very good at preventing infection nor transmission and it apparently last for about 15 minutes (being factious but it lasts "months" is the best guess).

 

Also covid-19 is an RNA virus that mutates frequently upon replication and therefore evolves rapidly.

 

There was never any chance whatsoever from the beginning that the covid-19 vaccines as currently available were ever going to eradicate covid-19 from the wild. Literally a 0% chance.

[Hip]

The thing is, the smallpox vaccine was both highly effective at preventing infection and transmission, and was very long lasting (3-5 years). And as a DNA virus, smallpox evolved very slowly.

 

So the smallpox vaccine always had an excellent change of eradicating smallpox from the wild, which it of course did.

 

The covid-19 vaccine on the other hand is not very good at preventing infection nor transmission and it apparently last for about 15 minutes (being factious but it lasts "months" is the best guess).

 

Also covid-19 is an RNA virus that mutates frequently upon replication and therefore evolves rapidly.

 

There was never any chance whatsoever from the beginning that the covid-19 vaccines as currently available were ever going to eradicate covid-19 from the wild. Literally a 0% chance.

 

Yes, that's all true. 

 

It's well known that some microbes are more resistant to being controlled by vaccines than others, and coronavirus is one of the harder microbes to create an effective vaccine for. 

 

HIV is also difficult, which is why we still have not got an effective HIV vaccine, not for want of trying.

 

EBV is another virus which is hard to create vaccines for. It would be great to eradicate EBV, since many researchers believe it plays a major role in many autoimmune diseases, and is mostly likely the cause of multiple sclerosis (MS). 

 

(Interestingly, with the success of mRNA vaccine technology during the pandemic, researchers are now testing whether mRNA tech may allow them to create effective vaccines for EBV and HIV).

 

 

 

Although the COVID vaccine did not entirely prevent transmission, it did reduce transmission by a degree, by 40-50% according to this source. And of course the COVID vaccine reduces your chances of death if you do catch COVID by an astounding 20 times. 

 

It is certainly a shame that the COVID vaccines could not prevent transmission entirely, because that would have made COVID go away completely.  

Edited by Hip, 17 August 2023 - 11:01 PM.

[joesixpack]

The thing is, the smallpox vaccine was both highly effective at preventing infection and transmission, and was very long lasting (3-5 years). And as a DNA virus, smallpox evolved very slowly.

 

So the smallpox vaccine always had an excellent change of eradicating smallpox from the wild, which it of course did.

 

The covid-19 vaccine on the other hand is not very good at preventing infection nor transmission and it apparently last for about 15 minutes (being factious but it lasts "months" is the best guess).

 

Also covid-19 is an RNA virus that mutates frequently upon replication and therefore evolves rapidly.

 

There was never any chance whatsoever from the beginning that the covid-19 vaccines as currently available were ever going to eradicate covid-19 from the wild. Literally a 0% chance.

The smallpox vaccine was one and done, for life. I had one when I was born, and was never offered another.

[joesixpack]

Yes, that's all true. 

 

It's well known that some microbes are more resistant to being controlled by vaccines than others, and coronavirus is one of the harder microbes to create an effective vaccine for. 

 

HIV is also difficult, which is why we still have not got an effective HIV vaccine, not for want of trying.

 

EBV is another virus which is hard to create vaccines for. It would be great to eradicate EBV, since many researchers believe it plays a major role in many autoimmune diseases, and is mostly likely the cause of multiple sclerosis (MS). 

 

(Interestingly, with the success of mRNA vaccine technology during the pandemic, researchers are now testing whether mRNA tech may allow them to create effective vaccines for EBV and HIV).

 

 

 

Although the COVID vaccine did not entirely prevent transmission, it did reduce transmission by a degree, by 40-50% according to this source. And of course the COVID vaccine reduces your chances of death if you do catch COVID by an astounding 20 times. 

 

It is certainly a shame that the COVID vaccines could not prevent transmission entirely, because that would have made COVID go away completely.  

Ask the gay community what they think of fauci's many year quest to find a vaccine, rather than find Therapeutics to treat the HIV infection. Luckily for them, other voices finally prevailed and HIV is now not a death sentence. They believe Fauci is a murderer.