2089 replies to this topic

[adamh]

"I don't know what neck of the woods you live in, but obviously the media in your area must be backwards, if this information is not getting through to you. "

 

This is genuinely funny. You who demand links and sources for every statement say things like it reduces death rate by "2000%" Lets take a look at that. If you reduce death by 100% you have eliminated it entirely. So if you reduce it by 2000% that means... what exactly? Did it not only prevent death in the person who got the shot but it also revived 19 people who had died? Do you have a source for that?

 

Perhaps the info in the woods you live in has become unreliable? It is humorous. Though, we know why you are keeping on with this and sometimes its a little sad because its understandable. But often its humorous.

 

One other thing, you "forgot" to tell us is if you plan to keep taking the shot. You know since you say its so beneficial and all that. They have a new booster for it now, when will you get yours? Or did you decide you were boosted enough? 

[Daniel Cooper]

 

This is genuinely funny. You who demand links and sources for every statement say things like it reduces death rate by "2000%" Lets take a look at that. If you reduce death by 100% you have eliminated it entirely. So if you reduce it by 2000% that means... what exactly? Did it not only prevent death in the person who got the shot but it also revived 19 people who had died? Do you have a source for that?

 

The vaccine works so well it actually immunizes the person standing next to you when you got the shot.

 

Yeah, Hip pretty consistently uses that sort of rate reduction statement. It can be justified mathematically, but it isn't the sort of statement you generally hear coming out of the mouth of a scientist and I consider it to be a very counterintuitive way to state a reduction. I normally hear numbers like that coming from the denizens of the Marketing Department.

 

No offense Hip.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 21 August 2023 - 12:18 AM.

[adamh]

"I normally hear numbers like that coming from the denizens of the Marketing Department."

 

Yes, and while you can increase something by any number of percent, it seems to me that if you reduce it 100%, then its gone. Maybe tricks like reducing by 50% then taking away 50% of that but that is not the same. Reducing by 100% all at once means its gone. Maybe hip is using that new math I hear about?

 

You could say a percentage of decrease in production. If it went down 1% one week then if production went down 10% the next week you could say the reduction was 1000% of the week before. But it references the 1% not the total. So if you said based on those numbers that production went down 1000% you would be lying unless you included "...compared to the reduction last week" But to say death or anything else went down by 2000%, well, some remedial math may be in order or more precision when speaking

[Dorian Grey]

Yawn.

 

I've had this discussion before on these threads. Looks like I will have to go through the same discussion once again, in order to demonstrate that this silly ivermectin conspiracy theory is plain wrong.

 

Clearly treatments such as supplemental oxygen and corticosteroids given to hospitalised patients with worsening COVID have saved lives, and these treatments were used at the early stages of the pandemic. Thus if it were really the case that any alternative treatment would be enough to blow the COVID vaccine EUA out of the water, oxygen and corticosteroids would have blow the EUA out of the water already.

 

Obviously the key word here is "adequate" in the context of the EUA rules phrasing "adequate, approved, and available alternatives". We know that the vaccines reduce COVID deaths by a factor of 20, so an adequate alternative would have to offer a similar reduction in death.

 

But even the most optimistic and positive of ivermectin studies show that ivermectin only reduced the risk of death by a factor of 2. Which is far less than 20. Thus ivermectin is not an adequate alternative. Likewise for oxygen and corticosteroids, they are not adequate alternatives.

 

 

So please, stop with the silly conspiracy theories, theories that even smart 14 year olds would realise are nonsense. 

 

Bret Weinstein's DarkHorse on all the many possible therapies that were ignored as the first million died.  

 

 

Early steroid treatments for COVID ignored by WHO (Umberto Meduri & Paul Marik & Bret Weinstein)

 

Truly amazing, they saw lungs clotting off, but would not even give an aspirin to help prevent them; cytokine storms, yet WHO & CDC were both saying no steroids for you.  Couldn't even recommend Vitamin-D or Zinc during major surges.  

 

Just stay at home...  Make sure you're alone...  Call 911 if you start turning blue.  We'll give you oxygen & remdesivir at the hospital, and put you on a vent if that doesn't work.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 21 August 2023 - 02:19 AM.

[Hip]

I've seen death rate reductions all over the place and can't help but suspect that you've picked the best one you could find.

 

The question is, how much death reduction, how long does the protection last, and at what cost in terms of side effects and severe adverse events.

 

I recently posted links to various studies looking at the death rate reduction from the COVID vaccines, and the highest I saw was a 25-fold reduction. The 20-fold reduction I quoted was a middle figure from the data of various studies.

 

 

The question in my mind is how people on this forum can be so incredibly ill informed as to make statements that the COVID vaccines have no benefits? The mind boggles on how such ignorance can still exist in the world when we have the Internet at our disposal to find out anything we wish to know.

Edited by Hip, 21 August 2023 - 02:03 AM.

[Hip]

"I don't know what neck of the woods you live in, but obviously the media in your area must be backwards, if this information is not getting through to you. "[/size]
 
This is genuinely funny. You who demand links and sources for every statement say things like it reduces death rate by "2000%" Lets take a look at that. If you reduce death by 100% you have eliminated it entirely. So if you reduce it by 2000% that means... what exactly?  

 

As I explained before (why do we have to keep repeating things on these COVID threads?), a percentage can be additive or multiplicative.

 

A 95% reduction in death corresponds to a 20-fold decrease in death, which in turn can be expressed as a factor reduction of 2000%

 

 

One other thing, you "forgot" to tell us is if you plan to keep taking the shot. You know since you say its so beneficial and all that. They have a new booster for it now, when will you get yours? Or did you decide you were boosted enough? [/size]

 

I get the booster shots in autumn each year, and will continue to do so. My parents get the booster shots twice yearly, as is recommended for their age group. 

 

I would actually like to get twice yearly shots, but am not eligible. 

Edited by Hip, 21 August 2023 - 02:05 AM.

[Hip]

Just stay at home...  Make sure you're alone...  Call 911 if you start turning blue.  We'll give you oxygen & remdesivir at the hospital, and put you on a vent if that doesn't work.  

 

Do you ever post up some of the medical successes and positives during the pandemic? You know, like the incredible COVID vaccines which were produced in record time, and reduced death rates by 20 fold.

 

 

Or are you always fixated on the negatives, like everyone else on these COVID threads. That can be symptom of depression, wallowing in the negative, and never find anything positive, and to ignore the good news.

 

I think Longecity should hire some psychiatrists to take care of all the negative-oriented posters on these COVID threads. Maybe with some decent antidepressant drugs, they will become more optimistic about life, and spend less time wallowing in the negative.

Edited by Hip, 21 August 2023 - 02:27 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Do you ever post up some of the medical successes and positives during the pandemic? You know, like the incredible COVID vaccines which were produced in record time, and reduced death rates by 20 fold.

 

 

Or are you always fixated on the negatives, like everyone else on these COVID threads. That can be symptom of depression, wallowing in the negative, and never find anything positive, and to ignore the good news.

 

I think Longecity should hire some psychiatrists to take car of all the negative-oriented posters on these COVID threads. Maybe with some decent antidepressant drugs, you will become more optimistic about life, and spend less time wallowing in the negative.

 

I rolled up my sleeve & got my jab in April 2021, boosted in November.  Have mentioned this many times over the years.  

 

What I'll never forgive is the lack of treatment in 2020 & 2021.  Really and truly ABSOLUTELY NOTHING outside the hospital for two whole years.  

 

Did you check out the video I posted above?  I know it's tempting to think you know what is said, but this one is pretty good.  PLEASE give it a view, & see what you think.  I'm actually interested in hearing what your thoughts were on this.  

[Daniel Cooper]

I think Longecity should hire some psychiatrists to take care of all the negative-oriented posters on these COVID threads. Maybe with some decent antidepressant drugs, they will become more optimistic about life, and spend less time wallowing in the negative.

 

Who's more negative? Those that question the safety of the covid vaccines or the ones still preaching "Be very very afraid of covid. Wear your mask and get your 10th booster"?

 

Which group is more in need of psychiatric care?

 

Maybe we all need help. While we're still here endlessly rehashing covid most of the world has decided to move on.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 21 August 2023 - 02:39 AM.

[Hip]

Did you check out the video I posted above?  I know it's tempting to think you know what is said, but this one is pretty good.  PLEASE give it a view, & see what you think.  I'm actually interested in hearing what your thoughts were on this.  

 

I had a quick look, and the thesis seems to be that because there were no pharma salesmen pushing the corticosteroid treatment, it took longer for the WHO to accept it. There may be some truth to that. 

 

But note that the WHO were also against masks for the general in the early pandemic, and only changed their tune on masks later on. That's nothing to do with the pharma industry. 

 

I don't think it helps that the WHO is headed by a former communist who was never a medical doctor. Usually the leaders of the WHO are former doctors, who thus have experience of the medical profession.

Edited by Hip, 21 August 2023 - 02:45 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

As I explained before (why do we have to keep repeating things on these COVID threads?), a percentage can be additive or multiplicative.

 

A 95% reduction in death corresponds to a 20-fold decrease in death, which in turn can be expressed as a factor reduction of 2000%

 

 

Mathematically you are correct of course.

 

But on the other had, I seldom read a journal paper that expresses a 95% reduction in something as a "2000% reduction". It's counterintuitive and therefore prone to confusion. It also lends itself to sensationalism. Which is why the boys in Marketing love it so much.

 

I think that sort of usage tends to obfuscate rather than illuminate, which should be the goal of anyone trying to communicate ideas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hip]

Mathematically you are correct of course.

 

But on the other had, I seldom read a journal paper that expresses a 95% reduction in something as a "2000% reduction". It's counterintuitive and therefore prone to confusion. It also lends itself to sensationalism. Which is why the boys in Marketing love it so much.

 

I think that sort of usage tends to obfuscate rather than illuminate, which should be the goal of anyone trying to communicate ideas.

 

We've had this discussion before, but like all discussions, they end up getting endlessly repeated on these COVID threads.

[Dorian Grey]

I had a quick look, and the thesis seems to be that because there were no pharma salesmen pushing the corticosteroid treatment, it took longer for the WHO to accept it. There may be some truth to that. 

 

But note that the WHO were also against masks for the general in the early pandemic, and only changed their tune on masks later on. That's nothing to do with the pharma industry. 

 

I don't think it helps that the WHO is headed by a former communist who was never a medical doctor. Usually the leaders of the WHO are former doctors, who thus have experience of the medical profession.

 

Did you just throw me a bone?  I'm honored!  

 

Seriously though...  A mortal sin was committed back in 2020/21, when actual practicing doctors were FORBIDDEN from practicing medicine for two whole years of a pandemic where over a million died.  

 

You simply can't tell doctors to close up shop and sit on their hands while thousands die every month.  I'm shocked...  Shocked I tell you, that anyone could look at what happened and defend anything about what the government bureaucrats (WHO, CDC, FDA, NIAID, BARDA) did.  Yea, they gave Big Pharma BILLIONS to make a few billion more off some half-ass vaccines, with zero risk to the pharmaceutical companies.  Whoop-de-frickin-do!  

 

I fell asleep every night fantasizing about seeing them strung up by their heels in the town square.  A frickin' pandemic going on, and my doc isn't allowed to prescribe ANYTHING for me if I fall ill?  Bull Crap!  I'll take this hatred to my grave, & enjoy every minute of it.  

[Hip]

  Shocked I tell you, that anyone could look at what happened and defend anything about what the government bureaucrats (WHO, CDC, FDA, NIAID, BARDA) did. 

 

Well, all that I can say is that it would take a brave doctor to be the first to treat a COVID patient with corticosteroids. When the patient is struggling to fight off a viral infection, you give the patient a drug known to suppress the antiviral immune response. 

 

As it turned out, corticosteroids do help reduce death in COVID patients. But it could have been the reverse: that corticosteroids hasten death by suppressing the immune response fighting the infection.

 

So I am not surprised that health authorities were somewhat reluctant to suggest corticosteroids to begin with. 

 

You paint that reluctance as a negative thing, perhaps because you have a desire to see everything as a negative. But that reluctance may have been because these health authorities did not want to put patients' lives in greater danger, given the immunosuppressive effects of corticosteroids.

 

 

 

Maybe we all need help. While we're still here endlessly rehashing covid most of the world has decided to move on.

 

Yes I agree. It's just us sad fuckers still posting on the COVID threads now!

Edited by Hip, 21 August 2023 - 05:26 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Well, all that I can say is that it would take a brave doctor to be the first to treat a COVID patient with corticosteroids. When the patient is struggling to fight off a viral infection, you give the patient a drug known to suppress the antiviral immune response. 

 

As it turned out, corticosteroids do help reduce death in COVID patients. But it could have been the reverse: that corticosteroids hasten death by suppressing the immune response fighting the infection.

 

So I am not surprised that health authorities were somewhat reluctant to suggest corticosteroids to begin with. 

 

You paint that reluctance as a negative thing, perhaps because you have a desire to see everything as a negative. But that reluctance may have been because these health authorities did not want to put patients in danger, given the immunosuppressive effects of corticosteroids.

 

 

 

 

Yes I agree. It's just us sad fuckers still posting on the COVID threads now.

 

When you've got a patient dying in front of you, and the choice is to do nothing, or try something, it doesn't take a whole lot of smarts to see the logic of trying something.  Mistakes in medicine occur every day, but if you're not going to try to do something, you might as well sell used cars or something.  

 

It was a pandemic old darling...  You have to let doctors try a few things, or just sit back & watch the bodies pile up. Choosing nothing is easy, if you don't have to look into your patient's eyes and tell him NO, we're not going to try anything.  

 

If you were a sick old man and came down with plague; given the choice of trying something, or doing nothing, what would you choose?  

[Mind]

All of this is verified and documented, studied and peer-reviewed:

 

The COVID injection trials were rushed and sloppy - see BEJM.

The COVID injection trials were blown-up and the study unblinded within a couple of months. We have no idea about the long term safety of the injections.

The COVID injections trials revealed dozens of serious adverse events and many deaths.

The more COVID injections you take - the more likely you are to get sick with COVID.

The CDC publicly admitted to lying about tracking adverse events.

The CDC refuses to release case level data about adverse events and deaths - several FOIA lawsuits are in process.

Many countries have acknowledged serious adverse events and deaths and are paying compensation to the victims - yet the CDC officially does not admit any side effects or deaths from the mRNA injections.

 

I have never seen so many people take a substance/therapeutic without a valid RCT trial, with so many questions about safety and efficacy, with public health officials lying and hiding data, with so many hundreds of thousands of people detailing their serious side effects (and deaths of family members) online every day, with an unreal number of young athletes suffering cardiac arrests and deaths.

 

If all of this was not enough for you to raise an eyebrow, how about Pfizer executives testifying in Australia that they brought in a "special batch" of their COVID injections for their workers in Australia. There was certainly no shortage of injections, contrary to the testimony of the executives. Not sure about you, but it makes my hair stand up.

[adamh]

"A 95% reduction in death corresponds to a 20-fold decrease in death, which in turn can be expressed as a factor reduction of 2000%"

 

First of all, there is no reduction in death let alone a 95% reduction. You just pulled that out of wherever or some outlier study. Secondly, a reduction of 95% even if it were true, which it is not, would not be 2000%

 

You claimed the shot "reduced death by 2000%" but now you say its actually 95%. 2000% is not the same as 95%, no scientist will ever say that. You are playing word games. A reduction can be no more than 100% of what you started with. You can say some claimed reduction is 20 times more than something else. You could say preventing 20 deaths is 2000% of one death but you can't say you reduced anything by more than 100%

 

Mind just laid it all out. The shot has prevented nothing but instead has caused a lot of death and morbidity based on the numbers. But you, hip, use some sort of mental gymnastics to say 95 = 2000 and maybe one or two will be convinced or confused by that, but you have no real argument. Go back to trying to become healthy again

[Hip]

The shot has prevented nothing

 
No, you are completely and utterly wrong. 
 
Wronger that the wrongest person in the entire history of wrongness!
 
The facts are that the COVID vaccines reduce the death rate by 20 times. This is well established in multiple studies, and if you care to read my earlier posts, you will find links to those studies. 
 
 
I find it rather disconcerting that there a lots of people here who simply cannot take on board this basic fact regarding vaccine efficacy which has been clearly demonstrated in studies. 
 
It's also disconcerting that nobody else here stands up and corrects Adamh's misinformation. He claims the vaccines do not help prevent death. This is blatantly false, yet nobody but me is correcting him. Once you are no longer on the side of the truth, you are lost. 

 

I don't deny COVID vaccines have side effects, as that would be denial of the truth. In fact I often talk to patients whose long COVID was triggered by the COVID vaccines. Getting long COVID from a COVID vaccination is by far the worst vaccine side effect that can happen to you (though oddly not much talked about here).

 

Edited by Hip, 22 August 2023 - 01:24 AM.

[adamh]

"The facts are that the COVID vaccines reduce the death rate by 20 times. This is well established in multiple studies, and if you care to read my earlier posts, you will find links to those studies. "

 

So we are supposed to search your voluminous "earlier posts" in case there is any evidence in them to support your argument? I should say search google and you will find you are wrong. If you had any strong evidence you would be posting it over and over. But according to you, everyone is just too dumb to see your point. As I recall, everything you have brought up has been irrelevant or wrong. You keep getting your butt handed to you. The covid shot increases death.

 

"I don't deny COVID vaccines have side effects"

 

Side effects including death, the appearance of cancer or acceleration of cancer in remission, heart and circulatory disease, strange fibers in the blood vessels, destruction of the immune system by spike proteins, brain damage, etc etc

 

"Once you are no longer on the side of the truth, you are lost"

 

Then you are surely lost

 

"It's also disconcerting that nobody else here stands up and corrects Adamh's misinformation. He claims the vaccines do not help prevent death. This is blatantly false, yet nobody but me is correcting him."

 

It must mean that everyone is out of step except you. What else could it possibly mean?

 

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I know you are a hopeless case. Your entire belief system is built around being right about the shot. When people post links to prominent doctors explaining the damage from the shot, you don't even read the link you attack the doctor saying he is a quack and attack the person posting. I post partly because your replies are humorous and in order to counter the disinformation you propagate

 

People are allowed to do stupid things as long as they don't hurt anyone else. You are allowed to take poison, take 20 boosters or otherwise commit suicide. Just don't keep trying to get others to do the same wrong things. You make personal attacks, post false data, and never back up any of it. If you posted real data instead of cherry picked anomalies, people would take you seriously. But you don't

[Hip]

Side effects including death, the appearance of cancer or acceleration of cancer in remission, heart and circulatory disease, strange fibers in the blood vessels, destruction of the immune system by spike proteins, brain damage, etc etc

 

Wow, all those things from the vaccine, eh?

 

But why stop at just those fabricated side effects? As you are making these things up, may as well expand your fantasy side effect profile even further. I'll give you some great ideas to help you:

 

• Maybe you can start to post online that the COVID vaccines contribute to global warming. That would be a good one for you. You can say that the spike protein traps sunlight, speeding up climate change. People will believe you; people believe anything these days.

 

• And you should never miss the opportunity of bringing in zombie apocalypses! You could concoct a story about the spike protein eating away the brain tissues, until the poor sufferer turns into a zombie. Start posting that online. Today's bullshit becomes tomorrow's latest conspiracy theory! Hey, you could be the originator of a new conspiracy theory as popular as QAnon! They could even make a film out of it: "Day of the Spike Protein Zombies". 

 

• And how about that the spike protein shape is near identical in appearance to the number 666, the mark of the beast (and of course this is really true, would I lie to you), and so getting a COVID injection means selling your soul to the antichrist. Hey, they could make a film out of that too: "Day of the Satan Injection".

 

You see, your antivax fabrications lack imagination, and you could do so much better if you applied more creativity to your antivax propaganda. Put some imagination into it, and you could even start writing vaccine fear-mongering zombie apocalypse conspiracy theory books, and make a fortune! The world is full of conspiracy theory nuts, and you could make a lot of money by catering to these people. 

Edited by Hip, 22 August 2023 - 09:04 PM.

[Hip]

So we are supposed to search your voluminous "earlier posts" in case there is any evidence in them to support your argument?

 

It's only worth giving links to scientific studies to people who demonstrate scientific thinking. Because for non scientists, linking them to science is like talking in a foreign language. 

 

Remember before you asked for a link to the excess death data in NZ. When I gave it to you, you couldn't understand a word of it. So now I realise scientific links are like a foreign language to some people here. 

Edited by Hip, 22 August 2023 - 08:56 PM.

[joesixpack]

It is never a good idea to feed the trolls. 

[adamh]

"It is never a good idea to feed the trolls."

 

Good point

[joesixpack]

"It is never a good idea to feed the trolls."

 

Good point

 

You know, there are people who pay other people to go on websites, and just argue, and disagree with anyone who does not not agree their interests, or point of view.

 

Do you think that could be happening here?

[Mind]

We've had this discussion before, but like all discussions, they end up getting endlessly repeated on these COVID threads.

 

The problem is that you still believe the CDC and FDA, who have been caught lying and hiding data at times for the last 3 years. This is serious. Usually, when someone, or some agency acts so unethically, they should not be believed anymore.

 

You can debate back and forth different studies. It can be hard to decipher the best data. Since the CDC and FDA have lied and are hiding data, it makes their arguments weak and not believable.

 

Thus, I had to rely on my own experience and local observation. Everyone, 100% everyone, that I know who got the COVID injection still got COVID, some of them got it bad, a couple of them died. So when the liars at the CDC say the COVID injection reduces transmission, or reduces severity, or reduces death by XXXX%, I have personal evidence that proves they are either incompetent or lying again (and again, and again).

[Hip]

Thus, I had to rely on my own experience and local observation. Everyone, 100% everyone, that I know who got the COVID injection still got COVID, some of them got it bad, a couple of them died. So when the liars at the CDC say the COVID injection reduces transmission, or reduces severity, or reduces death by XXXX%, I have personal evidence that proves they are either incompetent or lying again (and again, and again).

 

I don't think I need to add anything here, this statement says it all.  

Edited by Hip, 23 August 2023 - 08:41 PM.

[Empiricus]

Why would anyone become a public servant these days, when every decision you make, someone condemns you for it? If you turn left, someone condemns you. If you turn right, then someone condemn you. If you keep going in the same direction, then someone condemns you.

 

It's not possible for public officials to take ANY path now without someone condemning them. 

 

Because there's a revolving door.  Government officials know that their sacrifices on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry will be repaid with grants, speaking fees, board seats, and lucrative job offers after they retire from government service.  

[Empiricus]

A recent poll of 2K Americans by a "health research" group I've never heard of called KFF found:

 

- 65% don't believe vaccines are implicated in thousands of sudden deaths

- 66% don't believe Ivermectin was an effective treatment for COVID

 

- Blacks, hispanics, Republicans, women, rural people, and those with the least education most likely to believe such things.
 

- 67% trust the CDC

- 65% trust the FDA 

 

At first glance, I don't trust the results of this poll. Nevertheless, I hope the elite trust these numbers.  It may give them the false confidence to further overplay their weak hand in the months ahead. 

 

https://thehill.com/...en-deaths-poll/

https://www.kff.org/...ing-poll-pilot/

https://files.kff.or...August-2023.pdf

 

75% of respondents received 1 jab or more (81% is the official number for the US). 

Edited by Empiricus, 24 August 2023 - 09:55 AM.

[Gal220]

The problem is that you still believe the CDC and FDA, who have been caught lying and hiding data at times for the last 3 years.

 

Just to list some of them

 

Literally made up the idea natural immunity doesn't work, despite the vaccine also relying on it...

https://twitter.com/...157117721047042

 

 

Took over a year to increase the spacing between shots

https://twitter.com/...618583417401348

 

 

Over medicated, what possible explanation is there for Moderna being 3x the dose and releasing it?

https://twitter.com/...773105114832897

 

 

Many countries restricted Moderna for younger age groups(several studies showing higher numbers for myocarditis), but not U.S., NIH has part of the patent

Nordic countries are restricting the use of Moderna's Covid vaccine (cnbc.com)

Germany, France Restrict Moderna’s Covid Vaccine For Under-30s Over Rare Heart Risk—Despite Surging Cases (forbes.com)

 

 

Where are the autopsies from all the VAERs deaths?

link

[adamh]

You know, there are people who pay other people to go on websites, and just argue, and disagree with anyone who does not not agree their interests, or point of view.

 

Do you think that could be happening here?

 

No, not here. I think its a case of being over invested in a certain belief and desperately trying to get his beliefs vindicated

 

China on the other hand has an army of "influencers" who write posts and make videos every day pushing the ccp line. There are no doubt some of them here but mostly its just shilling for a product and people who like to argue

 

***********************

 

Empiricus, you are correct. There is a revolving door between the fda and big pharma, just as there is between government and the military industrial complex. Many other agencies have been corrupted as well. Has 81% of us public actually taken the shot? That is discouraging.

 

Fake polls are all the rage nowdays. Politicians and their parties know how to shift the result the way they want it. They have areas and segments of the public they know lean a certain way. They can predict the results by the group they sample and by deceptive and manipulative wording as well. Follow the money and cui bono. Any group that has an interest in the outcome of the poll who has paid for it or is involved in any way means its likely bogus. You cited a group of 2k which is tiny and they know just where to do their polling