2089 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

Mind, you should be questioning why you do not understand the reason coronavirus vaccinations are much less effective than vaccinations for other pathogens. The reasons have been explained on these COVID threads, but you don't seem to have taken it on board.

 
Wouldn't you say that the reasons why the covid-19 vaccines are much less effective than other vaccines is of academic interest as opposed to the practical fact that they are much less effective?
 
Here's where we're currently at in the US:




 

This is the reality on the ground with almost no one getting vaccinated anymore.

 

At the present, the crisis is over.

 

Now, I'm sure that you're going to say "But what about long covid - ME/CFC".  And my answer is - yes, what about it?

 

Do we in fact know that covid-19 is any more likely to cause persistent ME/CFS than any number of other viruses? Is it more likely to cause issues than Epstein-Barr virus, Ross River virus, or Coxiella burnetti or are we just paying more attention to it than we are any other virus at present because of the last three years?

 

I don't think we know the answer to that. So how do you keep recommending vaccines to avoid long covid - ME/CFS (and that's what you're left with doing because the infection and death rate has fallen so much) when we really don't have a way to gauge that relative risk compared to all the other viruses that we don't vaccinate against for reasons of ME/CFS. Because I think we all admit - these vaccines aren't without some risk.  

 

Someone has got to make the scientific case for using these vaccines as a preventative against ME/CFS and I don't think that's been done yet. At least not convincingly. After all, these vaccines are still not FDA approved - they are still operating a EUA. That EUA was granted in the face of the infection/death rates of late 2020. Would they be granted today given today's infection/death rates and the risk of long covid?

 

Highly doubtful.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 19 October 2023 - 06:35 PM.

[Hip]

Everyone understands how they "work", duh!

I was not talking about how vaccines work in general. I was talking about the salient fact that it is much more difficult to create a vaccine to produce a sustained protection against coronavirus, compared to other viruses. This is due to the nature of coronavirus, and not because of any shortcomings of vaccine designers. 

 

You do not appear to understand this. So you are criticising the COVID vaccines, yet remain uniformed about this most salient fact.

 

Edited by Hip, 19 October 2023 - 10:46 PM.

[Hip]

Wouldn't you say that the reasons why the covid-19 vaccines are much less effective than other vaccines is of academic interest as opposed to the practical fact that they are much less effective?

Saying the COVID vaccines are crap is a bit like saying rocket designers are crap, because they have not yet set up a regular daily rocket commuter service between Earth and the Moon. Of course the reason we don't have such a space commuter service is because its very hard to get people to the Moon and back. It's not because our rocket designers are crap.

Thus whether something is crap or a success depends on how hard the task is in the first place.  

 

The Apollo missions to the Moon were one of the greatest human achievements, simply because the task was so damn hard. But walking down to the local supermarket and buying some groceries is no achievement whatsoever, as almost anyone can do it.

 

Thus the COVID vaccine success, or lack thereof, has to be judged in the context of how difficult the challenge was in the first place. 

 

This of course is stating the obvious.


 

Do we in fact know that covid-19 is any more likely to cause persistent ME/CFS than any number of other viruses? Is it more likely to cause issues than Epstein-Barr virus, Ross River virus, or Coxiella burnetti or are we just paying more attention to it than we are any other virus at present because of the last three years?

 

ME/CFS has only been linked to a small number of viruses and bacteria. So not all viruses can cause ME/CFS.

 

From what we presently know, you cannot get ME/CFS from a cold virus like rhinovirus, and you cannot get ME/CFS from HIV, norovirus, rotavirus, adenovirus, papillomavirus, respiratory-syncytial virus, etc.

 

You get adenovirus outbreaks in military barracks, where soldiers live in close quarters and so easily spread pathogens. But there is no published or anecdotal data on ME/CFS emerging from these adenovirus outbreaks. Likewise, you get norovirus outbreaks on cruise ships, but again I have seen no indication that some people develop ME/CFS after these norovirus outbreaks. 

 

 

 

Does SARS-CoV-2 cause ME/CFS more often than other ME/CFS-triggering viruses like Epstein-Barr virus?

 

That's a good question, but I think we can say the answer is yes.

 

It is hard to calculate, though, since of course it's not just the propensity of the virus to cause ME/CFS that counts, but also what percentage of the population have caught a particular virus. The more people catch the virus, the more chances the virus has to trigger ME/CFS.

 

SARS-CoV-2 has spread to the majority of the US and European populations, so has had many opportunities to trigger ME/CFS. But EBV is also a very widespread virus, with about 90% of the adult population having caught EBV. So in both cases, these are widespread viruses. 

 

Before the pandemic, the worldwide population of ME/CFS patients was 17 million. These patients would have had their illness triggered by the most common ME/CFS-associated viruses, such as Epstein-Barr virus, Coxsackie B3, Coxsackie B4, Coxsackie B2, various echoviruses and cytomegalovirus. Possibly also HHV-6 and HHV-7. So the number of cases of ME/CFS triggered by EBV alone will be less than 17 million, because that 17M covers all the viruses. So maybe we can say that about 3 million ME/CFS patients worldwide had their illness triggered by EBV, as a rough ballpark figure. 

 

Now after the pandemic, we have about 30 million more patients worldwide with the ME/CFS form of long COVID, whose ME/CFS was triggered by SARS-CoV-2.   

 

This does suggest that SARS-CoV-2 has a stronger tendency to trigger ME/CFS than EBV, since both viruses are widespread, but SARS-CoV-2  seems to have triggered about 10 times more cases of ME/CFS than EBV.

 

Although it should be mentioned that many people have caught SARS-CoV-2 twice or more, and of course each time you catch it, there is a new opportunity to develop ME/CFS. Whereas with EBV, you can only normally catch this virus once, because you develop immunity after your first EBV infection, and are protected for life from catching EBV again. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 19 October 2023 - 10:59 PM.

[DanCG]

I was not talking about how vaccines work in general. I was talking about the salient fact that it is much more difficult to create a vaccine to produce a sustained protection against coronavirus, compared to other viruses. This is due to the nature of coronavirus, and not because of any shortcomings of vaccine designers. 

 

 

But that’s the point. A vaccine against a coronavirus that protects against infection and transmission had not been made. And yet, the decision makers forged ahead with a new delivery platform, did rushed and sloppy testing, and ignored and tried to hide the warning signs in the testing that was done. Then they told everyone that it was safe and effective, when they didn’t really know. They told everyone that the mRNA would stay at the site of injection and then degrade in a couple of days, and the spike protein would go no further than the nearest lymph node, which they knew was not true. They told everyone that if they were vaccinated they would not get infected and would not spread the virus, none of which was true. They insisted that everyone should be vaccinated and that young healthy people who had little to fear from covid were selfish and inconsiderate if they did not get vaccinated. When it started to become obvious that the vaccines were not stopping infection or spread, instead of admitting that it is difficult to make a vaccine against a coronavirus, they doubled down and insisted that we do more of the same failed strategy—more boosters! Now you say, well gee whiz guys, you should have known it wasn’t going to work, why all the complaining?

[Hip]

A vaccine against a coronavirus that protects against infection and transmission had not been made. 

 

I wonder if we should rename this forum "the banging your head against the wall board". Because it certainly feels that way, when we go over the same points again and again, with the scientific types here explaining things clearly and patiently, and yet it goes in one ear and comes out of the other ear of the participants in these threads. 

 

How many times does it have to be said that the main purpose of the COVID vaccines was to reduce the risk of death from COVID, before that message actually sinks in? This has been mentioned dozens of times, but it never ever seems to sink in.

 

Participating in these threads actually feels like being a teacher in a special needs school for problematic children who constantly need extra help and special needs tuition. 

Edited by Hip, 20 October 2023 - 01:14 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

I wonder if we should rename this forum "the banging your head against the wall board". Because it certainly feels that way, when we go over the same points again and again, with the scientific types here explaining things clearly and patiently, and yet it goes in one ear and comes out of the other ear of the participants in these threads. 

 

How many times does it have to be said that the main purpose of the COVID vaccines was to reduce the risk of death from COVID, before that message actually sinks in? This has been mentioned dozens of times, but it never ever seems to sink in.

 

Participating in these threads actually feels like being a teacher in a special needs school for problematic children who constantly need extra help and special needs tuition. 

 

It's funny, I find a sadness in the winding down of COVID mania.  Just a small  circle of friends, going 'round & 'round in circles over points already hashed out a dozen times over.  

 

Problem is, everything else seems boring compared to a global pandemic, complete with refrigerator truck morgues outside of hospitals and politicians and doctors making wild proclamations and rules. 

 

So what will become of us now...  Shall we talk of the diabesity epidemic?   Supplements?  Magic longevity protocols?  God I'm bored!  

[Hip]

So what will become of us now...  Shall we talk of the diabesity epidemic?   Supplements?  Magic longevity protocols?  God I'm bored!  

 

We are probably the only group of people in the world who are looking forward to the next pandemic, so that we can continue the debate!

[Daniel Cooper]

So what will become of us now...  Shall we talk of the diabesity epidemic?   Supplements?  Magic longevity protocols?  God I'm bored!

 
It's a great thing that the importance of talking about covid has waned. In my area, except for a few holdouts wearing masks (yes, sometimes alone in their cars) things are very much back to normal.
 
When it is all said and done, the pandemic lasted about three years with by far the bulk of those deaths in the first two (really the first 18 months).
 
That's pretty consistent with the timeframe for prior pandemics. For instance it's about as long as the 1889 Russian Flu lasted which we now have pretty good evidence was a corona virus that jumped from cattle to man. That pandemic lasted about three years, though the bulk of the deaths were in the first two. It is estimated to have killed about 1 million people on a 1889 worldwide population of about 1.5B. Scaled to today's world population of 7.9B that would be about 5.2 million deaths. Covd-19 killed about 6.9 million worldwide. So roughly similar with covid-19 being somewhat more deadly. Of course, there were essentially no medical countermeasures available in 1889.

 

I'm glad to see covid go. It won't be missed.

 

I do hope there is some retrospective on what was done right and wrong once enough time has passed for people to put their emotions aside. And I'd like to see some held to account (I'm looking at you Fauci) for things that were done that very likely lead directly to this pandemic. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

As far as things going forward - there have been a lot of developments in the last year on the longevity front. It would be nice to MLGA - Make Longecity Great Again  and see a lot more discussion of those developments.

[geo12the]

I wonder if we should rename this forum "the banging your head against the wall board". Because it certainly feels that way, when we go over the same points again and again, with the scientific types here explaining things clearly and patiently, and yet it goes in one ear and comes out of the other ear of the participants in these threads. 

 

How many times does it have to be said that the main purpose of the COVID vaccines was to reduce the risk of death from COVID, before that message actually sinks in? This has been mentioned dozens of times, but it never ever seems to sink in.

 

Participating in these threads actually feels like being a teacher in a special needs school for problematic children who constantly need extra help and special needs tuition. 

 

^^^

Nailed it.

 

FWIW I did something terrifying. Afew weeks ago I got the COVID booster. Hopefully I won't croak. 

[geo12the]

We are probably the only group of people in the world who are looking forward to the next pandemic, so that we can continue the debate!

 

The specter of Bird Flu is worrisome. It has jumped to some mammals already with very lethal results and scary neurological effects.  

 

https://jamanetwork....bstract/2801499

https://www.sciencen...luenza-pandemic

[Gal220]

They psychology of the Health Message, often referred to as Lock Step

 

From Paul Offit

https://twitter.com/...728733984731285

 

""So when you recommended vaccines or when you said that they were safe, you stood on a mountain of evidence. But that's not always true.

 

And when it's not true, then what? Do you say something? Do you say, 'I don't completely agree with that?' When you do that, then you're off the bus.

 

I think that's not the way it should be. I've talked to prominent public health officials about this and they have said to me occasionally,

 

'No, I think you're right. I think we should target high-risk groups. But when you do that...it's a nuanced message and a nuanced message is a garbled message.'

 

Their argument, and they may be right, is that it's better to say 'everybody over 6 months should get it,' because then it's more likely that those groups at highest risk will get it. Now, I don't know if that's true...That's a testable hypothesis."

 

Telling the truth, "target high risk", is a garbled message... so complicated

Edited by Gal220, 22 October 2023 - 04:40 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

The specter of Bird Flu is worrisome. It has jumped to some mammals already with very lethal results and scary neurological effects.  

 

https://jamanetwork....bstract/2801499

https://www.sciencen...luenza-pandemic

 

The world's a scary place.

 

If you live it in long enough it'll kill you.

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

^^^

Nailed it.

 

FWIW I did something terrifying. Afew weeks ago I got the COVID booster. Hopefully I won't croak. 

 

How often do you take a booster?

[pamojja]

Did I mention? I didn't get even one covid experimental shot out of rational health-preserving reasons, and bad experiences with thoroughly safety-tested vaccines already in the past.

 

Even as a toddler, my Pediatrician disadvised the full vaccination regime due to compromised immunity at birth. Does that make me an anti-vaxxer by birth?

 

Despite, didn't have Covid even once. With the co-morbidities of T2D, COPD, PAD and advanced age. 50% bodily disability. Really strange though, even despite chronic conditions disabilities, my last feverish infect was 2006, also my last 3-day sickness leave.

 

Only one person I'm sure he didn't get the shot is my brother. Same outcome.

 

 

 

 

 

[geo12the]

How often do you take a booster?

 

 

Before this one I just got the last time was fall of 2022

[Hip]

As far as things going forward - there have been a lot of developments in the last year on the longevity front. It would be nice to MLGA - Make Longecity Great Again  and see a lot more discussion of those developments.

 

Ever since the 2018 "medic update" to Google's search algorithm, it's now very hard for alternative health websites and medically non-authoritative websites to get on the first page or two of Google's search results.

 

In 2018 Google decided that it was going to banish non-scientific and non-evidence based health and medical websites from its top results. This means that when people Google for health information, alternative websites will not be routinely presented in the search results (unless you specifically ask for say "natural treatments for disease X"). 

 

 

This means that alternative health sites such as Longecity lose a lot of their incoming web traffic, so slowly become more of a backwater. The same issue occurred on the Phoenix Rising ME/CFS forum. Prior to 2018, you often saw Longecity and Phoenix Rising threads in your top 10 search results when you Googled on health matters. But after the 2018 "medic update", these sites no longer appeared.

 

This article and this article detail which alternative health websites were relegated out of Google's top results after the medic update. As you can see, sites like Mercola.com, Examine.com, Phoenix Rising and Longecity took a massive hit, and were relegated to oblivion in Google's search results.

 

One way around the medic update issue is to create on a different Internet sub-domain or URL sub-directory (like say blog.longecity.org or www.longecity.org/blog) a separate blog or wikipedia-type site on matters relating to longevity, and on that site only post reliable information backed up by published studies. The blog or wiki may then be considered by Google as medically kosher, and so its articles may appear in Google's top 10 search results. Then links to Longecity forum threads can be placed on the kosher site, to try to direct traffic to Longecity.

Edited by Hip, 22 October 2023 - 07:58 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Yes, I was group leader of a very active topic for MD-Junction, which was a huge website with dozens of different health topics.  We had new members signing up every week or so looking for help.  All of a sudden, it was like a switch was flipped off.  No new members at all.  We didn't even know what happened at first, & the entire MD-Junction group announce they were shutting down.  I was shocked to learn google wasn't referring folks to alternative medicine sites, even if they included "forum" in the search request.  

 

I find it absolutely dreadful that GPs are just going to write prescriptions for every little thing you consult them with. 

 

"Your boyfriend broke up with you?  Here, take these SSRI  meds for the rest of your life"... 

 

"You ate a deep fried turkey leg at the fair, & got a tummy ache?  Here, take these PPI meds for the rest of your life"... 

 

"Oh dear, your cholesterol is 223!  Here, take these statins for the rest of your life"...

 

"You live on junk food, beer & cigarettes, and think supplementing some vitamins might help prevent serious deficiencies?  Oh no!  No PROOF!"  

[Gal220]

@DorianGrey posted early on(March 2021) a paper describing the mRNA vaccine(search for the word expensive in his post)

https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=904272

 

 

What Dorian posted is just now being widely discussed, years later..

Many people apparently weren't aware the vaccine of the clinical trial used a completely different manufacturing process than the ones they actually injected into us

https://twitter.com/...323613924872505

https://twitter.com/...546861135339585

https://twitter.com/...591790681014724

https://twitter.com/...853525142815013

 

 

Hopefully there will be some pressure applied to stop this obvious fraud the regulators were fully aware of

Edited by Gal220, 23 October 2023 - 05:55 AM.

[Mind]

How long can before there is a see-change in the public attitude?

 

Right now, there are a lot of people who were acting like monsters during the COVID panic (screaming at people, calling them grandma-killers, suggesting quarantine and re-education camps for those unvaccinated, even suggesting forcibly removing kids from parents who did not want the COVID injection) who are now not touching the latest booster. There are probably tens of millions of these people who filled social media, national media, and forums like this with all kinds of hatred  - who are now not getting the booster.

 

With more and more revelations of the side effects (many times deadly), even from the FDA itself (toddlers and seizures), I can't imagine the people staying silent much longer.

[Mind]

Remember when the US media claimed the COVID pandemic would be stopped cold with the new mRNA injections. Remember when US political and health leaders (like Dr. Fauci) said the mRNA injections were 100% safe and effective. Remember how they later said "we never said that" (LIARS!!).

 

Contrast that with how so many other scientists, researchers, and doctors were accused of spreading misinformation and fired from their jobs, shunned, and faced horrible harassment online, even though they were correct about COVID and the failed pandemic policies. Well, a very amateurish paper that claimed President Trump was the leading spreader of COVID misinformation in the world - was retracted - like so many other papers that supported masking and other COVID interventions.

Edited by Mind, 27 October 2023 - 06:30 PM.

[Hip]

Remember when the US media claimed the COVID pandemic would be stopped cold with the new mRNA injections.  

 

No I don't remember that, perhaps you can link to some articles.

 

The vaccines were never designed to stop the pandemic, they were designed to greatly reduce the chances of death from COVID, which they did. 

 

I don't remember seeing any articles claiming the vaccines would stop the pandemic. 

[zorba990]

Harvard:
https://news.harvard...ts-say-experts/
"Harvard immunologist said current vaccines appear to be effective enough to end the pandemic, despite growing concerns that more infectious COVID-19 variants would severely blunt the effectiveness of the preventative treatments and set the nation back in its fight against the disease.

Galit Alter, professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and the Ragon Institute of MGH, MIT, and Harvard, said the fast-spreading U.K. variant seems able to evade some vaccine protection, and the South African variant appears able to skirt even more. Despite that, she said, none have completely escaped the body’s post-vaccination immune responses."

"

[Dorian Grey]

No I don't remember that, perhaps you can link to some articles.

 

The vaccines were never designed to stop the pandemic, they were designed to greatly reduce the chances of death from COVID, which they did. 

 

I don't remember seeing any articles claiming the vaccines would stop the pandemic. 

 

Oh Hip, say it isn't so!  You've forgotten the rationale for the mandates already?  Or are you going to say now you don't recall any mandates being issued? 

[Hip]

Harvard:
https://news.harvard...ts-say-experts/
"Harvard immunologist said current vaccines appear to be effective enough to end the pandemic, despite growing concerns that more infectious COVID-19 variants would severely blunt the effectiveness of the preventative treatments and set the nation back in its fight against the disease.

Galit Alter, professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and the Ragon Institute of MGH, MIT, and Harvard, said the fast-spreading U.K. variant seems able to evade some vaccine protection, and the South African variant appears able to skirt even more. Despite that, she said, none have completely escaped the body’s post-vaccination immune responses."

"

 

That's not the "US media claiming that the vaccines would stop the pandemic", as Mind claimed. That's just a single article reporting the opinion of one single individual immunologist. 

 

No wonder people here are so confused, if you mistake the reporting of one person's opinion for the consensus view of the media. 

[Hip]

Oh Hip, say it isn't so!  You've forgotten the rationale for the mandates already?  Or are you going to say now you don't recall any mandates being issued? 

 

The mandates were based on the fact that the vaccines reduce transmission. So in a workplace where everyone is vaccinated, a COVID infection will have a harder time transmitting from one person to the next.  

 

However, the reduction of transmission was not substantial enough to stop the pandemic. I don't remember any medical organisations claiming that vaccination would bring the pandemic to a halt.

 

So people might have hoped that they would, but I know of no health authorities that claimed as a fact that vaccination would stop the pandemic. 

 

 

 

Of course what vaccination did do was allow us to return to normal lifestyles. Once the elderly and the vulnerable were reasonably protected from death from COVID by virtue of the vaccination, we no longer needed to follow most of the controlling measures like lockdowns, mask wearing, social distancing, etc.

[Dorian Grey]

Oh Dear, if we're re-writing history, lets say slavery never actually happened, & do away with all the racial tensions.  

 

Even if vaccines reduce transmission, but not enough to halt the pandemic, this would mean we're all doomed to catch this bug sooner or later, & the rationale for mandates falls flat.  

 

Someone had a video of Rochelle Walensky saying the vaccines stop transmission, but I don't have a link at my fingertips. There was a flip-flop video of Joe Biden saying he was not for mandates, and then, just a short time later explaining why mandates were essential.  The truth is out there!  

 

I recall a time when most everyone on TV was saying "everyone must get vaccinated, as this is the only way we'll end the pandemic".  

[zorba990]

Spilled Vax possibly erodes eyeballs:

Ocular Surface Erosion after Suspected Exposure to Evaporated COVID-19 Vaccine
Abstract
"The purpose is to report ocular surface erosion of health personnel who were exposed to evaporated CoronaVac during a vaccination campaign. A campaign for CoronaVac vaccination was conducted in a closed space of 11.04 × 5.96 m, partially divided into 6 rooms with interconnected area among the rooms. A total of 20 health personnel worked in the vaccination rooms. On the third day of campaign, a vial, containing a single dose of 0.5 mL, of the vaccine was dropped accidentally onto the floor and broken by an administering nurse. A total of 15 personnel had symptoms and signs of ocular surface erosion at the average time from the accident to the onset of 10.2 ± 7.1 h; 4 personnel also had skin rash. These personnel included all 13 persons who already worked in the rooms when the accident occurred and continued for additional 4–6 h and 2 personnel who presented in the rooms 1–2 h after the accident and stayed for 2–3 h. Proximity and timing suggest CoronaVac correlation with the ocular and skin reactions. Cautions should be taken to avoid broken vials, spills, and aerosolization of CoronaVac during the vaccination."


What might be viewed as interesting is the table of stated Excipients and the fact that none of those could cause this.
So either the primary ingredients caused this, or there are unstated Excipients.

[Mind]

No I don't remember that, perhaps you can link to some articles.

 

The vaccines were never designed to stop the pandemic, they were designed to greatly reduce the chances of death from COVID, which they did. 

 

I don't remember seeing any articles claiming the vaccines would stop the pandemic. 

 

First, here is a link to supplements that might help with memory and the studies behind them.

 

Here is a video compilation of US media claiming (without any robust evidence whatsoever) that the "vaccines would stop the pandemic". (False. They lied)

 

Here is a compilation of all the headlines that said the COVID injections were 100% safe and effective. (False, They lied)

 

CDC director saying "vaccinated people do not carry the virus", based upon flimsy faulty small studies, not RCT trials.

 

The US government and media were adamant in the beginning that the "vaccine was 100% safe and effective". Slowly but surely, they changed their tune and lied, saying "we never said such things". These are incompetent and unethical people leading our national media and government health agencies. They need to be fired and held criminally liable for the COVID panic and resulting disaster.

[Hip]

Here is a video compilation of US media claiming (without any robust evidence whatsoever) that the "vaccines would stop the pandemic". (False. They lied)

 

Here is a compilation of all the headlines that said the COVID injections were 100% safe and effective. (False, They lied)

 

There are a few clanger statements in the first video, which are clearly incorrect, but most are true statements. For example: "you are not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations" is wrong. 

 

But statements like "these vaccines are highly highly effective and when people are vaccinated they can feel safe that they are not going to get infected fully" are quite correct, as the vaccine dramatically reduce the extent of the COVID infection you have. With vaccination, the infection will be better contained, and will not spread so widely and heavily in the body. 

 

In the second video of headlines, the main clangers are the statements that the vaccines are 100% effective. In fact they are only around 95% effective (depending on which study you look at), which for the non-mathematicians here means they reduce your chances of death by a factor of 20.

 

 

 

Of course, my perspective of the pandemic comes from seeing UK news sources; I don't see many US sources here. So I guess I cannot claim to know precisely what was going on in the US media during the pandemic; but the UK media I viewed did not say that the pandemic would be stopped by the COVID vaccines. 

 

We have a strict media regulator in the UK called Ofcom (Office of Communications), who will take action when TV news channels present a polarised view of any subject. As a TV channel in the UK, you are not allowed to present only one side of an argument, you are obliged to present all perspectives (you don't have to give all perspectives equal coverage, but you must at least show them).

 

Similarly, Ofcom will pull you up if you make factual errors. We had one presenter (Mark Steyn) on the right wing GB News TV channel fired because he was spreading vaccine misinformation. Ofcom came down on Mark Steyn, so he lost his job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 30 October 2023 - 08:43 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Simultaneous Covid/Flu vaccinations may be a bad idea:
 
Evaluation of Stroke Risk Following COVID-19 mRNA Bivalent Vaccines Among U.S. Adults Aged ≥65 Years (Preprint)
 
Naturally the CDC recommends co-administering covid-19 and flu vaccine:
 
Getting a Flu Vaccine and a COVID-19 Vaccine at the Same Time

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 30 October 2023 - 09:26 PM.