2101 replies to this topic

[Empiricus]

Covid vaccines were usefull specially in 2021 for people that never got virus contact before. But in Italy we were forced to get the shot even after having had the COVID illness, and for someone very hard COVID illness. That was bad for some pepole as it was a kind putting petrol on fire of the already awakened immunitary system.

 

Also our at the time health minister Roberto Speranza wanted people just wait & use paracetamol to counteract COVID. So bad minister. We never had such bad one.

 

At the end of the day Socialists and left parties loose the elections because of this bad management... so we now have an "iron" lady at government: Meloni

 

Most the leaders of most Western nations behaved similarly and earned failing grades.  In many cases criminal charges would be appropriate.  

 

It was outrageous that natural immunity was disregarded and everyone was urged to take the experiment vaccine.  Most jurisdictions prescribed vaccination for almost everyone on the baseless assumption that those with prior exposure would benefit from vaccination.  

Edited by Empiricus, 06 November 2023 - 09:33 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

Here is a quote from an Italian Population based study, published October 23, 2023. The study is here: https://www.mdpi.com...393X/11/10/1621

 

 

4. Discussion

This large population-based study in Italy investigated the neurological complications associated with first and second doses of three COVID-19 vaccines in use in the hub of Novegro (Milan, Lombardy). We identified several findings that were of clinical relevance to public health and scientific interest for clinicians and researchers. Firstly, we observed an increased risk of neurological adverse events in females, and for the adenovirus ChAdOx1nCov-19 vaccine, a trend for mRNA vaccines such as mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2. In line with this, a significant association between neurological symptoms following ChAdOx1nCov-19 and mRNA-1273 vaccination compared to BNT162b2 is also reported. Secondly, in the symptomatic vaccinated group, we identified a neurological risk profile that is specific for each vaccine. There is an increased risk for the ChAdOx1nCov-19 vaccine of tremors, insomnia, tinnitus, muscle spasms and headache; an increased risk for the mRNA-1273 vaccine of taste and smell alterations, vertigo, diplopia, sleepiness, parethesias and dysphonia; then, an increased risk for the BNT162b2 vaccine of cognitive fog. Finally, defining the symptomatic group, we found that over 40% of the subjects showed comorbidities in their clinical histories.

The neurological risk profile of the ChAdOx1nCov-19 vaccine included headaches, tremors, muscle spasms, insomnia and tinnitus. 

 

 

 

Some of those symptoms from the vaccines sounds a lot like long covid. Makes you wonder if the spike protein itself is the culprit in both cases.

[joesixpack]

Some of those symptoms from the vaccines sounds a lot like long covid. Makes you wonder if the spike protein itself is the culprit in both cases.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

[Hip]

Some of those symptoms from the vaccines sounds a lot like long covid. Makes you wonder if the spike protein itself is the culprit in both cases.

 

If you are referring to the ME/CFS form of long COVID, what's remarkable about ME/CFS is that similar symptoms are produced by a number of different viruses.

 

ME/CFS has been linked to a diverse array of viruses: Coxsackie B virus, echovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, HHV-6, HHV-7, parvovirus B19, Ross River virus, West Nile virus — and of course now SARS-CoV-2 as well. 

 

But even though there is a diverse range of viruses linked to ME/CFS, the symptoms of ME/CFS are remarkably similar in all cases. So this suggests the pathophysiology of ME/CFS is driven not by specific characteristics of the viruses, but may be driven by some other common denominator factor. Some common denominator pathophysiology that underpins all ME/CFS, and causes very similar symptoms in all ME/CFS patients. 

 

But what that factor might be remains a mystery, because nobody knows what causes ME/CFS; this disease have been described as "the last disease that science still knows nothing about".

 

 

Though there are theories: one theory is that ME/CFS is caused when the vagus nerve becomes chronically infected.

 

One of the roles of the vagus nerve is to detect infection in the body, and when detected, this nerve will trigger what is called sickness behaviour — which is defined as the body's orchestrated pre-programmed response to infection. Sickness behaviour is the set of symptoms you experience when you catch the flu, for example. Now the symptoms of sickness behaviour are quite similar to those of ME/CFS. So the theory is that a chronically infected vagus nerve could be constantly inducing the sickness behaviour response, thereby giving rise to all the symptoms of ME/CFS.

 

In this vagus nerve infection theory of ME/CFS, the specific virus is not so important; the thing that determines if you get ME/CFS is whether that virus infects the vagus nerve.

Edited by Hip, 07 November 2023 - 05:31 AM.

[joesixpack]

But isn't interesting that the study found all of those symptoms and related them to the vaccines?

[HBRU]

Joesixpack... difficult to say what comes out from Covid and what comes out from vaccines... as population was exposed to both at the same time, and also often the 3rd dosis was of a different vaccine than the first two.
Joesixpack... difficult to say what comes out from Covid and what comes out from vaccines... as population was exposed to both at the same time, and also often the 3rd dosis was of a different vaccine than the first two.

[Empiricus]

Speaking of natural immunity vs vaccine immunity, this study compared 2 groups, one that had prior infection, another that only received the vaccine, and then looked at outcomes.

 

Natural immunity Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Naturally Acquired Immunity versus Vaccine-induced Immunity, Reinfections versus Breakthrough Infections: A Retrospective Cohort Study 

https://academic.oup...1/e545/6563799?

• Infection - 13 times more infections in vaccinated group
• Symptomatic disease - 27 times more disease in vaccinated group
• Hospitalization - 8 in vaccinated group, 0 in infection group

Conclusion 

Naturally acquired immunity confers stronger protection against infection and symptomatic disease caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 2-dose vaccine-indued immunity.

 

 

Edited by Empiricus, 07 November 2023 - 09:06 AM.

[Hip]

Naturally acquired immunity confers stronger protection against infection and symptomatic disease caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 2-dose vaccine-indued immunity.

 

Sadly, an estimated 65 to 200 million people in the world gambled on natural immunity and lost — developing long COVID as a result of SARS-CoV-2 infection. 

 

That is the devastating side effect of gambling on natural immunity. Not a side effect that should be swept under the carpet. 

[Dorian Grey]

Sadly, an estimated 65 to 200 million people in the world gambled on natural immunity and lost — developing long COVID as a result of SARS-CoV-2 infection. 

 

That is the devastating side effect of gambling on natural immunity. Not a side effect that should be swept under the carpet. 

 

Good point Hip.  I was very reticent to get jabbed and I'm not afraid to die, but I really didn't want to live the last 10 years of my life as a pulmonary or cardiac (or long COVID) cripple.  I compromised with the one-and-done J&J (no lipid nano's for Dorian!).  Even got boosted in November 2021 (J&J again).  

 

Of course that was then (pre-omiicron) and this is now.  I know long COVID still occurs with omicron, but I tend to think these folks probably don't get their Paxlovid till day 4 or 5 (or not at all), whereas I wouldn't dream of going even 3 days without starting treatment with something.  

 

Of course I did develop angina on exertion in January 2023.  Was it the J&J jabs?  Or the "walk in the park" COVID I got in January 2022?  

[joesixpack]

Sadly, an estimated 65 to 200 million people in the world gambled on natural immunity and lost — developing long COVID as a result of SARS-CoV-2 infection. 

 

That is the devastating side effect of gambling on natural immunity. Not a side effect that should be swept under the carpet. 

 

 

What are talking about? Do you think 200 Million people that were unvaccinated got long covid?

 

Do you have a source for that?

 

Even the CDC has admitted that immunity from a prior Covid infection is more effective than a vaccine.

 

"What is added by this report?

During May–November 2021, case and hospitalization rates were highest among persons who were unvaccinated without a previous diagnosis. Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone."

https://www.cdc.gov/...wr/mm7104e1.htm

[Hip]

Do you have a source for that?

 

 

Yes I do, up to 200 million are estimated to have LC, but I will not supply the source while my posts are constantly marked as "ill informed", which is not only rude and uncivil, but shows the irreparable ignorance of some of the people here. (If people here insult me, I will insult them in return; I think that is fair enough).

Edited by Hip, 09 November 2023 - 02:13 AM.

[joesixpack]

Yes I do, up to 200 million are estimated to have LC, but I will not supply the source while my posts are constantly marked as "ill informed", which is not only rude and uncivil, but shows the irreparable ignorance of some of the people here. (If people here insult me, I will insult them in return; I think that is fair enough).

 

I don't use the goofy emoji's here.

 

You have no source, or you would have provided it.

 

I suppose it is possible that 200 million world wide have long Covid, but it would be hard to prove. I really doubt that all of them were unvaccinated survivors of a bout with Covid 19, and were relying on naturally acquired immunity, which is what we are talking about.

[Dorian Grey]

What are talking about? Do you think 200 Million people that were unvaccinated got long covid?

 

Do you have a source for that?

 

Even the CDC has admitted that immunity from a prior Covid infection is more effective than a vaccine.

 

"What is added by this report?

During May–November 2021, case and hospitalization rates were highest among persons who were unvaccinated without a previous diagnosis. Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone."

https://www.cdc.gov/...wr/mm7104e1.htm

 

Previous infection does provide superior protection against severe disease and probably long COVID too, but back in the bad old (pre-omicron) days of 20/21, I really don't know if one or all of the vaccines might have reduced severe disease in those without previous infection, and perhaps this lessened the likelihood of Long COVID???  

 

Again, I don't know, but I believe this was Hip's point; that perhaps a lot of long COVID (from unvaccinated disease in those previously uninfected in 2021) might have been avoided through vaccination???  

 

This is why I caved & got the jab in April '21.  I thought perhaps it might reduce my chances of Long COVID, as I had no previous infection.  Once omicron arrived and I got & recovered from it, I was done with the boosters for life.  Nevermore!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 09 November 2023 - 02:30 AM.

[Hip]

You have no source, or you would have provided it.

 

I've got the particular study saved on my computer, but while there are anonymous cowardly dickheads here marking my posts in red, I am on strike! So you will have to Google it if you want to find it.

Edited by Hip, 09 November 2023 - 02:27 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Though there are theories: one theory is that ME/CFS is caused when the vagus nerve becomes chronically infected.

 

One of the roles of the vagus nerve is to detect infection in the body, and when detected, this nerve will trigger what is called sickness behaviour — which is defined as the body's orchestrated pre-programmed response to infection. Sickness behaviour is the set of symptoms you experience when you catch the flu, for example. Now the symptoms of sickness behaviour are quite similar to those of ME/CFS. So the theory is that a chronically infected vagus nerve could be constantly inducing the sickness behaviour response, thereby giving rise to all the symptoms of ME/CFS.

 

In this vagus nerve infection theory of ME/CFS, the specific virus is not so important; the thing that determines if you get ME/CFS is whether that virus infects the vagus nerve.

 

That's a very interesting theory wrt the vagus nerve. If you haven't done a thread on it you might consider making one somewhere on the forum. Probably not in the covid forum as it clearly would have implications beyond covid.

 

With respect to this theory and covid - ME/CFS, I suppose one idea is that the vagus nerve becomes chronically infected, but another theory might be that the vagus nerve has simply been damaged without any ongoing infection.

 

It is known that covid-19 can cause certain neurological disorders - for instance Bell's Palsy was noticed as a side effect of covid-19 infection pretty early on. Also, Bell's Palsy seems to be increased by various covid-19 vaccines according to some studies. If a facial nerve can be damaged by these things, it's not too big of a leap to think the vagus nerve could as well.

 

In the case of covid-19 it's been speculated that maybe the infection causes and autoimmune response that attacks nerve tissue. Or, maybe the virus attacks the nerves directly. As far as I could see it's still not determined.

 

Anyway, that's an interesting theory on long covid - ME/CFS.
 

[joesixpack]

That's a very interesting theory wrt the vagus nerve. If you haven't done a thread on it you might consider making one somewhere on the forum. Probably not in the covid forum as it clearly would have implications beyond covid.

 

With respect to this theory and covid - ME/CFS, I suppose one idea is that the vagus nerve becomes chronically infected, but another theory might be that the vagus nerve has simply been damaged without any ongoing infection.

 

It is known that covid-19 can cause certain neurological disorders - for instance Bell's Palsy was noticed as a side effect of covid-19 infection pretty early on. Also, Bell's Palsy seems to be increased by various covid-19 vaccines according to some studies. If a facial nerve can be damaged by these things, it's not too big of a leap to think the vagus nerve could as well.

 

In the case of covid-19 it's been speculated that maybe the infection causes and autoimmune response that attacks nerve tissue. Or, maybe the virus attacks the nerves directly. As far as I could see it's still not determined.

 

Anyway, that's an interesting theory on long covid - ME/CFS.
 

 

I believe I read a theory that the vagus nerve was susceptible to damage from the spike protein and that was the reason people suffered Bells Palsy reactions to the Covid vaccine. And had heart issues as well. I suppose the same result could come from actually getting Covid 19.

[Hip]

That's a very interesting theory wrt the vagus nerve. If you haven't done a thread on it you might consider making one somewhere on the forum. Probably not in the covid forum as it clearly would have implications beyond covid.

 

Yes, it's definitely an interesting theory, which garnered quite a bit of attention when it was first proposed 10 years ago. It was put forward by Dr Michael VanElzakker. The theory is detailed here. 

 

If this theory turns out to be correct, it might also explain why autonomic nervous system (ANS) illnesses like POTS and NMH often appear alongside ME/CFS and LC, since the vagus nerve is a key part of the ANS.

 

Unfortunately though it is only a theoretical idea, as so far no evidence of a viral infection has been found in the vagus nerve of ME/CFS patients. You can only test the vagus for viruses in post-mortem studies; it's not technically possible to test this nerve in live patients. So that makes studies more difficult; but I believe Dr VanElzakker did have some vagus nerve samples from deceased ME/CFS patients that he was testing; however, I never saw any positive results published; and I think VanElzakker has distanced himself from his own theory a bit, saying that it is only one possible idea about what the cause of ME/CFS might be.

 

Interestingly, Dr John Chia has pointed out that enteroviruses can travel along the vagus nerve from stomach to brain in only 3 days. In this way, a virus can not only infect the vagus, but can also use the vagus nerve as a route to entering and infecting the brain.

[Gal220]

Astra Zeneca ruled defective in UK court case

https://twitter.com/...src=typed_query

https://twitter.com/...515248870019106

 

“AstraZeneca issued press releases following clinical trials saying the vaccine – known as Vaxzevria – was between 62 per cent and 90 per cent effective at preventing symptomatic Covid-19 depending on dosages, with an average of 70 per cent. The legal claim states: “In fact, the absolute risk reduction concerning Covid-19 prevention was only 1.2 per cent.”

 

[Mind]

 

Here is a quote from an Italian Population based study, published October 23, 2023. The study is here: https://www.mdpi.com...393X/11/10/1621

 

 

4. Discussion

This large population-based study in Italy investigated the neurological complications associated with first and second doses of three COVID-19 vaccines in use in the hub of Novegro (Milan, Lombardy). We identified several findings that were of clinical relevance to public health and scientific interest for clinicians and researchers. Firstly, we observed an increased risk of neurological adverse events in females, and for the adenovirus ChAdOx1nCov-19 vaccine, a trend for mRNA vaccines such as mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2. In line with this, a significant association between neurological symptoms following ChAdOx1nCov-19 and mRNA-1273 vaccination compared to BNT162b2 is also reported. Secondly, in the symptomatic vaccinated group, we identified a neurological risk profile that is specific for each vaccine. There is an increased risk for the ChAdOx1nCov-19 vaccine of tremors, insomnia, tinnitus, muscle spasms and headache; an increased risk for the mRNA-1273 vaccine of taste and smell alterations, vertigo, diplopia, sleepiness, parethesias and dysphonia; then, an increased risk for the BNT162b2 vaccine of cognitive fog. Finally, defining the symptomatic group, we found that over 40% of the subjects showed comorbidities in their clinical histories.

The neurological risk profile of the ChAdOx1nCov-19 vaccine included headaches, tremors, muscle spasms, insomnia and tinnitus. 

 

 

For those just joining this discussion, many other studies indicating increased neurological complications after getting the COVID injections have been posted earlier. This is just the latest study confirming what was ALSO found in the sloppy, rushed, fraudulent trials of the mRNA "vaccines".

 

The FDA knew that these serious adverse events (and deaths) occurred in the trials, yet they still forced the COVID injections on everyone. In the US, the CDC/Media/Government is still pushing the injections relentlessly - even for toddlers.

 

Why does this keep happening in the US when hardly any other country in the world is pushing the COVID injections for younger adults of kids? It was mentioned earlier how the FDA is corrupt and composed of former Pharma industry execs - now the BMJ is also highlighting this unethical incestuous relationship. No wonder why the FDA has refused to recall the injections - even though there is mounting (peer-reviewed) evidence of widespread severe adverse events.

[Mind]

No I don't remember that, perhaps you can link to some articles.

 

The vaccines were never designed to stop the pandemic, they were designed to greatly reduce the chances of death from COVID, which they did. 

 

I don't remember seeing any articles claiming the vaccines would stop the pandemic. 

 

Just to jog your memory, here is another kind-of deceptive article claiming 100% efficacy of the Pfizer mRNA injections in adolescents.

 

When you drill down into the data for context, you find that there is more to the story. 18 people in the placebo group got COVID - which is only 1.5% of that arm. In addition, they only followed the groups for a short time period. As we know now, the antibody boost from the COVID injections only lasts for a few weeks and people end up getting COVID anyway and are more likely to contract COVID the more times they get injected. So 100% efficacy was claimed based upon a very short study with only tiny numbers of people actually getting COVID.

 

At least this data was made available. The CDC refuses to release data regarding other decisions and statements they have made. The data should be publicly available. People need to be fired.

Edited by Mind, 09 November 2023 - 12:32 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Yes, it's definitely an interesting theory, which garnered quite a bit of attention when it was first proposed 10 years ago. It was put forward by Dr Michael VanElzakker. The theory is detailed here. 

 

If this theory turns out to be correct, it might also explain why autonomic nervous system (ANS) illnesses like POTS and NMH often appear alongside ME/CFS and LC, since the vagus nerve is a key part of the ANS.

 

Unfortunately though it is only a theoretical idea, as so far no evidence of a viral infection has been found in the vagus nerve of ME/CFS patients. You can only test the vagus for viruses in post-mortem studies; it's not technically possible to test this nerve in live patients. So that makes studies more difficult; but I believe Dr VanElzakker did have some vagus nerve samples from deceased ME/CFS patients that he was testing; however, I never saw any positive results published; and I think VanElzakker has distanced himself from his own theory a bit, saying that it is only one possible idea about what the cause of ME/CFS might be.

 

Interestingly, Dr John Chia has pointed out that enteroviruses can travel along the vagus nerve from stomach to brain in only 3 days. In this way, a virus can not only infect the vagus, but can also use the vagus nerve as a route to entering and infecting the brain.

 

Not to take this thread too far off track - have the MC/CFC crowd come up with any treatment approaches that assume this is the underlying pathology?

 

Do they work?

[Dorian Grey]

Not to take this thread too far off track - have the MC/CFC crowd come up with any treatment approaches that assume this is the underlying pathology?

 

Do they work?

 

I've never done a deep dive into MC/CFS, but every time I do ponder it, mitochondrial issues and membrane therapeutics like PPC come to mind.

 

https://www.scienced...005273613004070

 

Lipid Replacement Therapy: A natural medicine approach to replacing damaged lipids in cellular membranes and organelles and restoring function

 

https://nutrasal.com...pc-product-page

 

Life happens on the membrane and purified PPC (PhosChol) provides the building blocks essential to cellular membrane, repair, regeneration and function.

 

70 years of Clinical studies and pharmacological investigations demonstrate PPC is a cell membrane therapeutic and supports Liver, Brain, Gut, Heart, Blood Vessels, Cellular and Liver Detox, among others. 

 

Mitochondria Function*

The mitochondria are essential to multicellular life. Without mitochondria, cells cease to respire aerobically and quickly die, a process exploited by some apoptotic pathways.

Depletion of phosphatidylcholine in the membranes of liver mitochondria is an early manifestation of the decreased capacity of the mitochondria to control cellular respiration, to oxidize substrates, and to form high energy phosphate metabolites.

During the last decade, several investigations have shown that PPC with its special ingredient 1.2- DLPC positively affects the structure and function of mitochondria.

The efficacy of PPC is not limited to the liver. Administered at a recommended dose levels, PPC facilitated the general repair process of mitochondrial membranes of spongiocytes of the zona fasciculata of the adrenal cortex.

According to the published data, PPC with DLPC as its key component is of special value for the restructuring and functioning of the double membrane of mitochondria.

Edited by Dorian Grey, 09 November 2023 - 04:05 PM.

[Hip]

Not to take this thread too far off track - have the MC/CFC crowd come up with any treatment approaches that assume this is the underlying pathology?
 
Do they work?

 
In principle antivirals would be a treatment, to clear the viral infection from the vagus nerve; but Dr Michael VanElzakker has pointed out that antiviral drugs have poor penetration into nerve tissue. Furthermore, with ME/CFS linked to a range of viruses (herpes family viruses, enteroviruses, etc), there may not be an antiviral available for the particular virus an ME/CFS patient has. 
 
Whether this vagus nerve theory of ME/CFS is true or not, it's actually a very instructive concept, because it provides a hypothesis to explain how multiple different viruses can cause the same disease and the same symptoms. 
 
Any theory that purports to explain ME/CFS will need to account for how different chronic viral infections can all cause the same symptoms of ME/CFS. 
 
 
 
There have been dozens of theories on the cause of ME/CFS, each very interesting in its own right.

One fascinating theory was the hydrogen sulphide (H₂S) hypothesis of ME/CFS. Low levels of H₂S will put mice into a hibernation state of super low energy consumption (which looks similar to ME/CFS). The theory was that H₂S might do the same thing in humans, and so higher levels of H₂S in the blood might then explain ME/CFS. 

 

The gas H₂S is naturally produced by bacteria in the gut, and tests showed that ME/CFS patients have higher levels of H₂S in their gut, due to having more of the species of gut bacteria that create H₂S. 
 
So people got excited about this theory, and ME/CFS patients started trying supplements which mop up H₂S in the gut, including myself. Unfortunately though, nobody seemed to improve on these supplements, and these days, people have lost interest in the H₂S theory of ME/CFS. 



 

I've never done a deep dive into MC/CFS, but every time I do ponder it, mitochondrial issues and membrane therapeutics like PPC come to mind.
 
https://www.scienced...005273613004070
 
Lipid Replacement Therapy: A natural medicine approach to replacing damaged lipids in cellular membranes and organelles and restoring function
 
https://nutrasal.com...pc-product-page

 

A few years ago, there was some interest among ME/CFS patients in trying lipid replacement therapy. I tried this myself, taking the lipid replacement supplement NT Factor. Some patients reported transient improvements using NT Factor, including myself, but unfortunately there were no long term benefits. 

 

 

There is a lot of interest in mitochondrial dysfunction theories of ME/CFS though, as defects have been found in the glycolysis / mitochondrial energy production metabolism of ME/CFS patients.

 

What's really interesting is that if you add a drop of ME/CFS patients blood serum to healthy cells from another person in a petri dish, those cells will start to develop mitochondrial and energy metabolism dysfunctions!

 

So there is a mysterious unknown factor present in ME/CFS patients' blood which causes mitochondrial dysfunction, even if added to healthy cells from another person!

 

I started a thread about this mysterious "something in the serum" of ME/CFS patients here. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 09 November 2023 - 04:45 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

NT Factor is a bit mysterious about the phospholipid they use.  I would think they would be bragging about it if it was PPC, which is the only major source of the polyunsaturated fraction dilinoleoylphosphatidylcholine / DLPC.  

 

It is the polyunsaturated fraction that is supposed to increase membrane fluidity, which is said to fall off in age and certain disease processes.  

 

Interesting there is only one manufacturer of PPC, Lipoid Phospholipid GmbH Cologne Germany.  

[Hip]

NT Factor is a bit mysterious about the phospholipid they use.  I would think they would be bragging about it if it was PPC, which is the only major source of the polyunsaturated fraction dilinoleoylphosphatidylcholine / DLPC.  

 

It is the polyunsaturated fraction that is supposed to increase membrane fluidity, which is said to fall off in age and certain disease processes.  

 

Interesting there is only one manufacturer of PPC, Lipoid Phospholipid GmbH Cologne Germany.  

 

I don't think I've come across any LC or ME/CFS patients experimenting with dilinoleoyl-phosphatidylcholine, so hard to say if it might benefit.

 

 

But there's probably nothing structurally at fault with the mitochondria in ME/CFS; rather, the mitochondria may be thwarted by an autoimmune attack:

 

In the related disease of enterovirus myocarditis, some German research found that this viral infection of the heart triggers the production of auto-antibodies which target the mitochondria, and cause mitochondrial dysfunction by clogging up mitochondrial operations. This then causes an energy shortage in the heart in viral myocarditis.

 

So in enteroviral ​myocarditis, the mitochondria are physically fine, but they are rendered dysfunctional by an autoimmune attack. I suspect a similar thing may be happening in ME/CFS.

Edited by Hip, 09 November 2023 - 08:48 PM.

[Mind]

Add this to the list of contaminants in the COVID injections.

 

The COVID injections are NOT supposed to have billions of strands of DNA in them. They are supposed to be RNA. On this basis alone, the COVID injections should be recalled. Unfortunately, I can pretty much guarantee the CDC and FDA will do nothing about it.

 

In other news, excess mortality is basically off-the-charts in Singapore since the rollout of the COVID injections, over 30% higher than recent years. This would normally be cause for alarm. Countries experiencing these massive spikes in excess mortality are suspiciously silent about it.

[Dorian Grey]

Add this to the list of contaminants in the COVID injections.

 

The COVID injections are NOT supposed to have billions of strands of DNA in them. They are supposed to be RNA. On this basis alone, the COVID injections should be recalled. Unfortunately, I can pretty much guarantee the CDC and FDA will do nothing about it.

 

In other news, excess mortality is basically off-the-charts in Singapore since the rollout of the COVID injections, over 30% higher than recent years. This would normally be cause for alarm. Countries experiencing these massive spikes in excess mortality are suspiciously silent about it.

 

Dr. Vanessa Schmidt-Kruger (German Cellular Biologist) was on this back in March 2021.  Look around 3/4ths down the page

 

https://www.longecit...-we-like/page-2

 

for my post: "Submitted for your approval...  Dr VSK points out the mass production protocol for the mRNA vaccines is much sloppier than for the limited amount they used in the safety trials, and is contaminated with "Linearised DNA", which is the type that can easily conjoin with your own human DNA.  

 

"VSK: To come back to Ms. Fischer’s question about the DNA. The problem is that when it contains DNA contaminants, then the situation is: well, with RNA it is relatively unlikely that it can integrate into the host’s cell nucleus. The situation is different with DNA, and especially in this case because you have contaminants of linearised DNA.  "

 

"So it is theoretically possible that this linearised DNA that is in there as a contaminant could integrate into the host’s cell nucleus in a dividing cell, linearised DNA is optimal for integration."

 

"there are further contaminants, there is double-stranded RNA for instance. The EMA Committee says it is slight, it is acceptable"

 

------------------------------

 

Glad I tracked down the J&J jab!  It had risks too, but nothing like this!  

[Daniel Cooper]

Dr. Vanessa Schmidt-Kruger (German Cellular Biologist) was on this back in March 2021.  Look around 3/4ths down the page

 

https://www.longecit...-we-like/page-2

 

for my post: "Submitted for your approval...  Dr VSK points out the mass production protocol for the mRNA vaccines is much sloppier than for the limited amount they used in the safety trials, and is contaminated with "Linearised DNA", which is the type that can easily conjoin with your own human DNA.  

 

"VSK: To come back to Ms. Fischer’s question about the DNA. The problem is that when it contains DNA contaminants, then the situation is: well, with RNA it is relatively unlikely that it can integrate into the host’s cell nucleus. The situation is different with DNA, and especially in this case because you have contaminants of linearised DNA.  "

 

"So it is theoretically possible that this linearised DNA that is in there as a contaminant could integrate into the host’s cell nucleus in a dividing cell, linearised DNA is optimal for integration."

 

"there are further contaminants, there is double-stranded RNA for instance. The EMA Committee says it is slight, it is acceptable"

 

------------------------------

 

Glad I tracked down the J&J jab!  It had risks too, but nothing like this!  

 

This is really all the result of using a completely new technology and then rolling it out on a scale so massive that it's hard to imagine. Which has always been one of my complaints about picking mRNA as the vaccine technology for covid-19.

 

Think about it - if mRNA had rolled out in a traditional fashion the first applications would like have been oncology. Most likely relatively rare but very deadly cancers.

 

First trials would been maybe a hundred or so, then moved on to a thousand, then likely a few thousands for a number of years. They would have learned how to scale their production process from tiny micro batches, to larger and then still larger production runs. After some time, they'd have worked out the kinks. They'd have got their mRNA product in quantity without all these contaminates.

 

But, covid-19 was viewed as the perfect opportunity to move mRNA out of the lab where it had languished for decades and into a real world application - which Moderna and Pfizer were itching to do. Because clearly the normal rules weren't going to apply during the pandemic. You can do things in an emergency that you'd never get away with in normal times.

 

So we took a technology that had never been approved by the FDA and in the space of less than a year rolled it out from clinical trials of thousands to mass deployment to the tune of billions.

 

Fauci and his cohorts really should pray that there aren't any ticking time bombs in these vaccines. If they result in latent cancers or heart disease that become apparent a bit down the road their names will be cursed to an extent that hasn't been seen since the great despots of prior centuries.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 11 November 2023 - 04:59 PM.

[zorba990]

First trials would been maybe a hundred or so, then moved on to a thousand, then likely a few thousands for a number of years. They would have learned how to scale their production process from tiny micro batches, to larger and then still larger production runs. After some time, they'd have worked out the kinks. They'd have got their mRNA product in quantity without all these contaminates.

There is an assumption that there weren't any large (failed) trials that went unpublished beforehand.
This says different:
https://www.bitchute...ed/XyfClndX52hr

And, of course based on the likely forthcoming pushback, attacking that messenger, you can weight the validity and consequence.

[HBRU]

Problem with errant DNA cromatine is already there in everyone (vaccinated or not), because dying cells, dying DNA viruses and such put DNA into the blood. QuestForLife pointed this out in his thread about thelomere elongation. It seems copper + resveratrol does the trick of cleaning blood of such DNA pieces that I agree are worrysome.