2092 replies to this topic

[Empiricus]

The main problem with any vaccine, including the COVD vaccines, is that they sometimes trigger ME/CFS, which is a horrible lifetime affliction. I consider this the most serious issue with vaccination, and one that must be investigated thoroughly. Getting ME/CFS is tantamount to a death sentence.

 

Some of the side effects of vaccines are not that easy to treat.  I agree ME/CFS is a tricky one (though as you know, I don't like this "death sentence" talk).

 

On the other hand, there's many ways to treat COVID.  Why would anyone take a vaccine that has difficult to treat side effects when there are various safe approaches to treating the disease itself?  That's one reason why the advocacy of these vaccines as the optimal defense strategy has always seemed crazy to me.

[Hip]

I don't like this "death sentence" talk

That may come from an egocentric view of the universe. You recovered from post-viral fatigue; in your case it never turned into long-term ME/CFS; and so you think everyone recovers. Well that is not the case. 

 

A lot of longevity enthusiasts seem to have this egocentric view of the universe; which you might expect from anyone who is so self-focused. 

 

You might like to read some of the ME/CFS and long COVID forums on Reddit, where people cannot believe they have to spend the rest of their lives imprisoned in their own homes, with immense physical and mental fatigue, brain fog, flat emotions, PEM, sound sensitivity, pain in their body, and all the other horrible symptoms of ME/CFS. People often contemplate suicide on these forums. And in fact the suicide rate in ME/CFS is known to be 6 times higher than the rate in the general population. Not quite as bad as schizophrenia though, where the suicide rate is 60 times higher. 

 

 

 

 On the other hand, there's many ways to treat COVID.  Why would anyone take a vaccine that has difficult to treat side effects when there are various safe approaches to treating the disease itself? 

 

The rationale for COVID vaccines in vulnerable populations has been amply discussed here and elsewhere.

 

If you have to ask that question, it suggests you have not been reading these discussions. 

 

Either that, or a propensity to believe and accept without question all the stuff that is posted online by alternative health nutcases, who think a few vitamins can cure anything. 

 

It's amazing how skeptical people can be with respect to the COVID vaccines; but when someone posts that vitamin D can adequately protect them, they believe and totally accept that without any critical thinking. 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 02 March 2024 - 05:43 PM.

[Gal220]

Little hard to follow along, but McKernan attempts to explain the frame shifting and template shifting in the mRNA vaccines

 

https://twitter.com/...950909128647097

[Mind]

Here researchers find increased serious adverse events with the advent of the mRNA COVID injections. Hazard ratios are quite large. Even the rushed and fraudulent Pfizer trial found tens of thousands of serious events and over 1,200 deaths.

 

One good thing about the destructive and ineffective COVID panic response is that many people are taking a harder look at all of the historical and peer-reviewed evidence of vaccine failures, injuries, and deaths. Most people are unaware of this history because of propaganda from the CDC and the vaccine manufacturers. Most people also do not know that there are no long-term placebo controlled RCT studies with all-cause mortality as and endpoint that prove a societal benefit from vaccines. There are a lot of studies that show short-term immune modulation, plus some observational studies, but that is it.

[Hip]

 

One good thing about the destructive and ineffective COVID panic response is that many people are taking a harder look at all of the historical and peer-reviewed evidence of vaccine failures, injuries, and deaths. 

 

Thanks for the laugh, Mind!

 

If you look at the previous articles of this author, he has several articles (see here, here and here) on the ludicrous idea of "vaccine shedding", where people claim to rapidly become ill in the presence of a vaccinated person. 

 

Some twit posts the preposterous idea of vaccine shedding online, and all the world's muppets just lap it up! People are becoming so gullible and stupid these days.

 

I cannot take anyone seriously if they think vaccine shedding is a real thing. And this author is actually a doctor!

Edited by Hip, 04 March 2024 - 08:44 PM.

[joesixpack]

The Doctor is not a "twit", although you might be.

 

Shedding is a real thing. It was observed when the oral polio vaccine was in use in the US. It was discontinued in 2000 for this reason. This was a live, attenuated virus, vaccine. 

 

The mrna vaccine, does not contain a live attenuated virus. Instead it programs the cells in our bodies to produce the spike protein, which is the factor that causes the damage. We don't know how long our bodies produce the spike protein, but we know it is subject to shedding. That is how they monitor the sewage in city water treatment plants for signs of covid 19 in the population.

 

Here is an article on polio vaccine shedding, that you deny exists.

 

https://abcnews.go.c...ory?id=87200349

Edited by joesixpack, 04 March 2024 - 08:54 PM.

[Hip]

The Doctor is not a "twit", although you might be.

 

Shedding is a real thing. It was observed when the oral polio vaccine was in use in the US. It was discontinued in 2000 for this reason. This was a live, attenuated virus, vaccine. 

 

The mrna vaccine, does not contain a live attenuated virus. Instead it programs the cells in our bodies to produce the spike protein, which is the factor that causes the damage. We don't know how long our bodies produce the spike protein, but we know it is subject to shedding. That is how they monitor the sewage in city water treatment plants for signs of covid 19 in the population.

 

You are talking about people given live attenuated vaccines like the polio vaccine, who can shed the attenuated virus from the vaccine for a few days after being vaccinated, which can sometimes infect others around them (although mildly, since it is an attenuated virus).

 

But as you point out, there is no live virus in the COVID mRNA vaccines, just an instruction to make the spike protein. The spike protein cannot create an infection in anyone, as it is not a whole virus. 

 

And even if this spike protein were shed from a vaccinated person, the amount picked up by people around them would be absolutely minuscule compared to the amount within the body of the person who is vaccinated. Or compared to someone who has a COVID infection. 

 

So if the vaccinated person is not having any issues, there is no way people around them would have issues.

[joesixpack]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC10452662/

 

A shed live attenuated virus, and a shed, mrna produced, pathogenic spike protein, can both cause harm. One causes a disease, the other causes the organ/other bodily injury witnessed after a Covid infection, and/or vaccine.

 

"Spike protein pathogenicity, termed ‘spikeopathy’, whether from the SARS-CoV-2 virus or produced by vaccine gene codes, akin to a ‘synthetic virus’, is increasingly understood in terms of molecular biology and pathophysiology. Pharmacokinetic transfection through body tissues distant from the injection site by lipid-nanoparticles or viral-vector carriers means that ‘spikeopathy’ can affect many organs. The inflammatory properties of the nanoparticles used to ferry mRNA; N1-methylpseudouridine employed to prolong synthetic mRNA function; the widespread biodistribution of the mRNA and DNA codes and translated spike proteins, and autoimmunity via human production of foreign proteins, contribute to harmful effects. This paper reviews autoimmune, cardiovascular, neurological, potential oncological effects, and autopsy evidence for spikeopathy. With many gene-based therapeutic technologies planned, a re-evaluation is necessary and timely."

[Hip]

 a shed, mrna produced, pathogenic spike protein, can both cause harm

 

There is no evidence spike protein is even shed from vaccinated individuals, let along evidence that the minuscule amounts that might possibly be shed can cause harm to people around the vaccinated person.

 

It's just yet another an example of how gullible or hysterical members of the public came up with crazy ideas during the pandemic.

 

 

I am sure you are aware of these people who think their bodies are powerfully electrically charged, and can turn on or off lampposts as they walk under them. "Sliders" they call themselves. These people genuinely believe that something in their bodies causes electrical interference with lampposts, and causes them to turn on or off. Of course this is nonsense. But it is a good example of the crazy beliefs that exist in the general public.

Edited by Hip, 04 March 2024 - 11:06 PM.

[joesixpack]

There is no evidence spike protein is even shed from vaccinated individuals, let along evidence that the minuscule amounts that might possibly be shed can cause harm to people around the vaccinated person.

 

It's just yet another an example of how gullible or hysterical members of the public came up with crazy ideas during the pandemic.

 

 

I am sure you are aware of these people who think their bodies are powerfully electrically charged, and can turn on or off lampposts as they walk under them. "Sliders" they call themselves. These people genuinely believe that something in their bodies causes electrical interference with lampposts, and causes them to turn on or off. Of course this is nonsense. But it is a good example of the crazy beliefs that exist in the general public.

 

Of course there is evidence. The virus, of which, the spike protein is part of the shell is shed in feces and maybe in urine.

 

Look up water treatment plant studies, that monitor Covid 19 levels in cities around the world.

[Hip]

Of course there is evidence. The virus, of which, the spike protein is part of the shell is shed in feces and maybe in urine.

 

Look up water treatment plant studies, that monitor Covid 19 levels in cities around the world.

 

People complain of being adversely affected by vaccinated individuals walking into the same room. They are not in contact with the urine of the vaccinated person.

 

Thus the spike protein would have to be airborne if it is going to adversely affect other people in the room.

 

In the mRNA vaccines, the whole viral shell is not created, just the isolated spike protein is made, inside muscle cells. We have no evidence that this vaccine-generated spike protein inside muscle cells gets into the lungs, and becomes airborne via the breathing, and then affects others in the room.

 

Just the idea that the spike protein should move from muscle to lungs to the air seems rather unlikely. Let alone the minute amounts of any spike protein floating in the air should cause symptoms in nearly people. 

 

The whole scenario appears extremely improbable. 

Edited by Hip, 06 March 2024 - 03:46 AM.

[Hip]

Hypervaccinated man reportedly received 217 Covid jabs without side-effects. 

A “hypervaccinated” German man who reportedly received 217 Covid jabs in 29 months showed “no signs” of ever being infected with the virus that causes Covid-19 and had not reported any vaccine-related side-effects, according to a study published in the journal Lancet Infectious Diseases.

[joesixpack]

Hypervaccinated man reportedly received 217 Covid jabs without side-effects. 

 

In the interest of science, I nominate you for multiple vaccinations.

 

Please take them every 2 months for a while, and report back, so we can see how you are doing.  I know a few people that have taken a number of the shots on advice of their doctor. They are are still all right.

 

Let's see how you do.

[Dorian Grey]

Wonder which vaccines the guy got?  

 

https://www.statista...cturer-germany/

 

It looks like the whole spread was available in Deutschland.  Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, CureVac, Sanofi/GSK, & AZ.  

 

Perhaps beer is the antidote for vaccinosis?  

[Dorian Grey]

The plot thickens!  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-142351577.html

 

The study indicates that the man received his first coronavirus vaccine shot — a single-dose Johnson & Johnson one — on June 3, 2021. He then started getting doses produced by companies such as AstraZeneca and Moderna before heavily ramping up his vaccination schedule in January 2022, at the peak of the omicron variant.

 

Data shows during the last two weeks of that month, the man got a COVID-19 vaccine shot every day except one, often getting one dose in each arm. He then did the same for the first 12 days of February 2022.

[Mind]

Remember when Facebook, Google, the national media, all harassed and censored women when they complained of menstrual problems, still births, other effects on female reproductive organs. They were called stupid antivaxxers. The media and government "health" bureaucrats insisted that the COVID injections "stayed in your arm" and were "100% safe and effective" (yes, they really said that over and over).

 

We have dozens of studies now proving the women were right. Here is another. The women were honestly reporting real symptoms. If the government really was "following the science", they would have listened. They would have investigated. Who knows how widespread the damage is. These women might have long-lasting problems. No one is really looking deeply into the issue. The CDC and FDA continue to mostly ignore adverse reactions and deaths from the COVID injections. They continue to unethically and illegally hide the safety data they do possess.

[DanCG]

 

 

But as you point out, there is no live virus in the COVID mRNA vaccines, just an instruction to make the spike protein. The spike protein cannot create an infection in anyone, as it is not a whole virus. 

 

 

So if the vaccinated person is not having any issues, there is no way people around them would have issues.

Spike protein from the vaccine mRNA gets secreted in exosomes which circulate through the blood.

 

Exosomes can be exhaled. For example exosomes can be detected on used face masks.

 

In general, exosomes are abundant in most biological fluids, such as blood, urine, tears, sweat, breast milk, etc.

 

So, there is a plausible mechanism by which spike protein from vaccinated people can impact non-vaccinated people.

[DanCG]

The plot thickens!  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-142351577.html

 

The study indicates that the man received his first coronavirus vaccine shot — a single-dose Johnson & Johnson one — on June 3, 2021. He then started getting doses produced by companies such as AstraZeneca and Moderna before heavily ramping up his vaccination schedule in January 2022, at the peak of the omicron variant.

 

Data shows during the last two weeks of that month, the man got a COVID-19 vaccine shot every day except one, often getting one dose in each arm. He then did the same for the first 12 days of February 2022.

Here is a good analysis of the story. There is speculation that he was collecting the proofs of vaccination and selling them. Also, he may have been provided with proof of vaccination without ever actually getting all those shots, because someone wanted to pad their numbers of shots given.

Edited by DanCG, 06 March 2024 - 10:32 PM.

[Hip]

For those who think SARS-CoV-2 is no worse than the flu virus, this article details some of the permanent damage even a mild COVID infection does to the brain and intelligence:

 

 

Here are some of the most important studies to date documenting how COVID-19 affects brain health:

 

Large epidemiological analyses showed that people who had COVID-19 were at an increased risk of cognitive deficits, such as memory problems.

 

Imaging studies done in people before and after their COVID-19 infections show shrinkage of brain volume and altered brain structure after infection.

 

A study of people with mild to moderate COVID-19 showed significant prolonged inflammation of the brain and changes that are commensurate with seven years of brain aging.

 

Severe COVID-19 that requires hospitalization or intensive care may result in cognitive deficits and other brain damage that are equivalent to 20 years of aging.

 

Laboratory experiments in human and mouse brain organoids designed to emulate changes in the human brain showed that SARS-CoV-2 infection triggers the fusion of brain cells. This effectively short-circuits brain electrical activity and compromises function.

 

Autopsy studies of people who had severe COVID-19 but died months later from other causes showed that the virus was still present in brain tissue. This provides evidence that contrary to its name, SARS-CoV-2 is not only a respiratory virus, but it can also enter the brain in some individuals. But whether the persistence of the virus in brain tissue is driving some of the brain problems seen in people who have had COVID-19 is not yet clear.

 

Studies show that even when the virus is mild and exclusively confined to the lungs, it can still provoke inflammation in the brain and impair brain cells’ ability to regenerate.

 

COVID-19 can also disrupt the blood brain barrier, the shield that protects the nervous system – which is the control and command center of our bodies – making it “leaky.” Studies using imaging to assess the brains of people hospitalized with COVID-19 showed disrupted or leaky blood brain barriers in those who experienced brain fog.

 

A large preliminary analysis pooling together data from 11 studies encompassing almost 1 million people with COVID-19 and more than 6 million uninfected individuals showed that COVID-19 increased the risk of development of new-onset dementia in people older than 60 years of age.

Edited by Hip, 07 March 2024 - 05:12 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

For those who think SARS-CoV-2 is no worse than the flu virus, this article details some of the permanent damage even a mild COVID infection does to the brain and intelligence:

 

Did these patients get proper, early treatment?  Or did they just let the disease run its course?  

 

Both my COVID infections were a walk in the park.  I literally spent several hours each day of my isolation, walking in a park.  

 

HCQ + Zinc kept my malaise down to 3-5 days, & the hardest part of COVID for me turned out to be resisting the urge to dine out & celebrate my recovery. 

[Mind]

For those who think SARS-CoV-2 is no worse than the flu virus, this article details some of the permanent damage even a mild COVID infection does to the brain and intelligence:

 

So you now are disagreeing with the CDC? Their official guidance is to now treat it like any other respiratory virus.

[Hip]

So you now are disagreeing with the CDC? Their official guidance is to now treat it like any other respiratory virus.

 

I suspect this advice is given is because we now have good protection from death in vulnerable populations, thanks to COVID vaccinations. 

 

In the UK, there are still about 50 COVID deaths each day, if you look at the UK Worldometer website; but this is about the same amount of people that die from flu each year. So with COVID vaccinations available, COVID is reduced to being no more lethal than the flu.

 

However that's just looking at death from COVID; but if we look at other factors caused by COVID, such as long term effects on the brain, and of course the ME/CFS form of long COVID, this virus is still a menace. 

[Mind]

I suspect this advice is given is because we now have good protection from death in vulnerable populations, thanks to COVID vaccinations. 

 

In the UK, there are still about 50 COVID deaths each day, if you look at the UK Worldometer website; but this is about the same amount of people that die from flu each year. So with COVID vaccinations available, COVID is reduced to being no more lethal than the flu.

 

However that's just looking at death from COVID; but if we look at other factors caused by COVID, such as long term effects on the brain, and of course the ME/CFS form of long COVID, this virus is still a menace. 

 

The CDC does NOT think it is a menace. Are they wrong?

[Hip]

The CDC does NOT think it is a menace. Are they wrong?

 

The CDC know full well that SARS-CoV-2 can cause the disease ME/CFS, as well as cause death.  

 

And the CDC also know that other respiratory viruses in circulation can trigger ME/CFS and cause death. 

 

But the degree to which SARS-CoV-2 causes these issues is not now considered high enough to warrant lockdowns, social distancing, quarantine, etc. That's why the CDC states we should treat COVID as a normal respiratory infection. This does not mean SARS-CoV-2 is not dangerous, and the CDC know this.

 

 

I don't know about the CDC guidance, but in the UK, the recommendation if you think you might have COVID is still to try to stay at home and avoid people if possible. 

Edited by Hip, 07 March 2024 - 08:31 PM.

[Empiricus]

Wonder which vaccines the guy got?  

 

https://www.statista...cturer-germany/

 

It looks like the whole spread was available in Deutschland.  Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, CureVac, Sanofi/GSK, & AZ.  

 

Perhaps beer is the antidote for vaccinosis?  

 

 

The survivor of dozens of COVID vaccinations the media is parading is the worst use of an anecdote.  Many people -- undoubtedly thousands -- elected to receive far more than the stipulated number of shots in the belief that more is better and that the vaccines are safe and effective.  

 

Assuming this man's story is even true, we're not told about the people who received crazy high numbers of vaccinations and didn't survive.  

[Gal220]

Assuming this man's story is even true, we're not told about the people who received crazy high numbers of vaccinations and didn't survive.  

 

https://twitter.com/...215388906328068

https://twitter.com/...216497716666514

 

Appears it is not true

 

"You would have to see vax spike sequence in the person to believe it. There is none. Zero Zilch. Didn’t happen."

[joesixpack]

Good catch, I thought it was a little strange that they apparently dropped his criminal case in return for letting them study him.

[Hip]

https://twitter.com/...215388906328068

https://twitter.com/...216497716666514

 

Appears it is not true

 

"You would have to see vax spike sequence in the person to believe it. There is none. Zero Zilch. Didn’t happen."

 

Apparently the public prosecutor had verified 130 of the vaccinations over nine months as part of an alleged fraud case.  

 

If a public prosecutor has verified this, it means the evidence would be good enough to stand up in court.

 

 

 

The Tweet you posted links to this article, in which the Tweeter claims "Castruita et al found vaccine RNA/DNA in plasma 28 days later". 

 

Then the Tweeter claims that because there was no Pfizer vaccine RNA sequence found in this hypervaccinated man, he could not have been hypervaccinated.

 

Well maybe not finding the RNA sequence was simply because his last vaccine was many months ago, longer than 28 days that the vaccine RNA is known to last in the plasma.  

 

 

By the way, the Tweeter appears to promote Cannabis as medicine. He probably thinks a good spliff gives you excellent protection from COVID. And reading his posts, he comes across as an anti-establishment individual who is angry about the world. 

[Gal220]

By the way, the Tweeter appears to promote Cannabis as medicine. He probably thinks a good spliff gives you excellent protection from COVID. And reading his posts, he comes across as an anti-establishment individual who is angry about the world. 

 

You criticize this person's Cannabis beliefs, but continue to promote these leaky experimental gene therapy vaccines which have shown to increase your chances of covid in a dose dependent fashion

https://twitter.com/...727870303404032

 

 

All the while, Health orgs continue to hide safety information 

https://twitter.com/...974190983626869

https://twitter.com/...599284505473033

 

 

I don't plan to take either one, but cannabis is far safer..

[Hip]

You criticize this person's Cannabis beliefs, but continue to promote these leaky experimental gene therapy vaccines which have shown to increase your chances of covid in a dose dependent fashion

https://twitter.com/...727870303404032

 

Still posting completely debunked ideas? This idea was debunked on these COVID threads, but perhaps catching COVID has affected your memory?  

 

Your cherry-picking statement has been dealt with by articles such as this one: 

Inadequate support: Association alone doesn’t imply causation. Associations can appear due to a causal relationship between two variables, but can also arise as a result of confounding factors. The Cleveland Clinic study couldn’t rule out some potential confounding factors, such as whether people who received more doses of COVID-19 vaccine were also those working in patient-facing jobs.

 

Cherry-picking: Several other published studies reported that receiving additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine enhances a person’s protection against COVID-19. However, instances in which the claim appears generally leave out any mention of such studies, leaving users with a one-sided view of the research on this subject.

 

 

 

As for continuing to call mRNA vaccines "gene therapy", when that false concept was also debunked on these COVID threads.

 

But in case you have forgotten that too, here is what Perplexity says when asked are mRNA vaccines gene therapy:

 

No, it is not accurate to call mRNA vaccines gene therapy. While mRNA vaccines involve genetic material, they do not change the recipient's DNA or enter the cell's nucleus where the genome is located 1 2

 

Gene therapy involves deliberate changes to a patient's DNA to treat genetic conditions, which is fundamentally different from how mRNA vaccines work 4 5

 

The mRNA in vaccines does not interact with DNA and is rapidly degraded by the body after use, making it transitory and not altering the recipient's genetic makeup 5

 

Edited by Hip, 10 March 2024 - 06:16 AM.