447 replies to this topic

[zorba990]

Ivermectin Wins in India
https://www.thedeser...d5e2519364.html

"Uttar Pradesh on Ivermectin: Population 240 Million [4.9% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 26

COVID Daily Deaths: 3

The United States off Ivermectin: Population 331 Million [50.5% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 127,108

COVID Daily Deaths: 574

Let us look at other Ivermectin using areas of India with numbers from August 5, 2021, compiled by the JHU CSSE:

Delhi on Ivermectin: Population 31 Million [15% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 61

COVID Daily Deaths: 2

Uttarakhand on Ivermectin: Population 11.4 Million [15% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 24

COVID Daily Deaths: 0"


...

"Now let us look at an area of India that rejected Ivermectin.
...
"Tamil Nadu off Ivermectin: Population 78.8 Million [6.9% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 1,997

COVID Daily Deaths: 33

Like the JHU CSSE data, Galileo's telescope did not lie either, and the truth can usually be found in plain sight. Ivermectin works, and it works exceedingly well. Harvard-trained virologist Dr. George Fareed and his associate, Dr. Brian Tyson of California's Imperial Valley, have saved 99.9% of their patients with a COVID Cocktail that includes Ivermectin. They have released versions of their new book published in the Desert Review that everyone should read.

https://www.thedeser...0d67e94c25.html

I could talk about how every one of my patients who used Ivermectin recovered rapidly, about my most recent case who felt 90% better within 48 hours of adding the drug, but I won't. I could write about how Wikipedia censors more than Pravda, about how you should always read the "talk" section of EVERY Wikipedia article to go behind the scenes and understand what the editors DO NOT want you to read, but I will refrain."

Edited by caliban, 02 November 2021 - 12:13 PM.
title, merged

[zorba990]

Just as a reminder not to use it:

You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y'all. Stop it. https://t.co/TWb75xYEY4— U.S. FDA (@US_FDA) August 21, 2021

[Daniel Cooper]

Just as a reminder not to use it:

 

It's interesting to me that the FDA in your article stresses how untested ivermectin is for the treatment of Covid-19, and yet they not only approved but significantly promoted remdesivir based on very limited testing that showed a very equivocal benefit. And unlike ivermectin who's safety when used at the recommended dosage is long and well established, remdesivir has a very short and limited history of use in humans.

 

Remdesivir is still approved and promoted for the treatment of covid. I would submit that the evidence for ivermectin is equal to or superior to the evidence for remdesivir, thought admittedly that's a low hurdle to clear.

 

At this point I don't have a strong opinion on ivermectin wrt to covid. I just haven't studied it enough to say one way or the other. But the difference in what the FDA considers to be evidence for safety and effectiveness for ivermectin vs remdesivir is really breathtaking when you step back and look at it.  My strong suspicion is that this has everything to do with remdesivir being a very expensive on patent drug produced by a major drug manufacturer. Call me cynical. 

[zorba990]

It's interesting to me that the FDA in your article stresses how untested ivermectin is for the treatment of Covid-19, and yet they not only approved but significantly promoted remdesivir based on very limited testing that showed a very equivocal benefit. And unlike ivermectin who's safety when used at the recommended dosage is long and well established, remdesivir has a very short and limited history of use in humans.

Remdesivir is still approved and promoted for the treatment of covid. I would submit that the evidence for ivermectin is equal to or superior to the evidence for remdesivir, thought admittedly that's a low hurdle to clear.

At this point I don't have a strong opinion on ivermectin wrt to covid. I just haven't studied it enough to say one way or the other. But the difference in what the FDA considers to be evidence for safety and effectiveness for ivermectin vs remdesivir is really breathtaking when you step back and look at it. My strong suspicion is that this has everything to do with remdesivir being a very expensive on patent drug produced by a major drug manufacturer. Call me cynical.

Once trust is lost, it's very hard to get back. Approving things quickly to assuage fear and control mechanisms doesn't inspire confidence either.

They should have left things at emergency use, since Phase III clinical trials did not run to proper completion.
They should have printed ingredients on the paper for proper full consent and not changed definitions to suit calling it a name it hasn't yet earned.
They should have encouraged full discussion and not colluded to stifle and outright censor discussion, erasing / rewriting historical facts, removing inventors names, other shady things...cmon...get real...head in the sand is the only way not to see it
No one behaving above board has a need to do those things.
<blah>

But all that is moot. The point is now we wait. If naysayers are wrong then we will skate through flu season without much issue - and no celebrities whining about how they got very sick etc even though doubleyjabbed.
Otherwise there will be a mad scramble of cognitive dissonance to try and blame the non users for the users misery for as long as they can keep the ruse going..Barnum would be amazed.
Rice cakes are close enough to popcorn for me, I'll see you all on the other side of winter.

[bladedmind]

Pharmacies not filling legitimate ivermectin prescriptions.

https://twitter.com/...223467887144965

 

Customs seizing personal ivermectin imports.   

https://twitter.com/...311623374352385

 

Ivermectin subreddit likely to be banned.

https://www.reddit.c...ainst_this_sub/

 

Protecting from covid-19 thread closed on Longecity.

 

Sad.

[Mind]

 

 

Protecting from covid-19 thread closed on Longecity.

 

As far as I am aware, there was no outside pressure on the moderator who closed the thread. LongeCity still allows rational, free, and open discussion about protection from COVID-19.

 

The thread was closed because it was over 100 pages long. While there is a lot of data in there, it had many themes about many different avenues of protection.

 

It was advised to please start new discussions that are more focused upon various types of treatments or classes of therapeutics. (and then link back to the original thread).

 

Please continue to discuss protective measures. 

[Mind]

Ivermectin is one of the safest, cheapest, and most effective drugs on the market, and has shown very good data on its effectiveness against COVID-19. IT SHOULD BE IN THE TREATMENT ARSENAL OF EVERY COUNTRY.

 

The denial of almost every out-patient treatment for COVID-19 by the FDA and CDC (besides mRNA gene therapies), shows a callous disregard for human life.

[PHenry]

I would like to crowdsource a definitive thread on Ivermectin use, both as a treatment for a positive diagnosis of COVID and also as a prophylaxis to preventing COVID.

 

I have seen various studies, all using different dosages (12mg, 24mg, etc) and different frequency (weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, etc).

 

Some studies go by weight with no maximum limit others cap the maximum dosage at a certain amount regardless of weight.

 

I would love to see us aggregate all of the most up-to-date and accurate information here in this thread that we as a community can use as a trust source of truth and resource.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Patrick

Edited by caliban, 02 November 2021 - 11:59 AM.
title

[Hebbeh]

I believe the Ivermectin studies that showed some degree of efficacy used ivermectin as part of a stack which throws additional perplexity into any MOA.

[Hip]

It's fairly easy to prove that ivermectin has no in vivo antiviral efficacy against coronavirus, and some published studies have done so.

 

The original studies that found an antiviral effect in vitro used incredibly high ivermectin concentrations, about 1000 times higher than can be obtained in vivo, even using the highest safe human doses. So ivermectin is not an effective clinical antiviral for coronavirus, period. 

 

I think we were led up the garden path a bit with ivermectin, because all the interest in it arose when it was shown to be antiviral in vitro, even though it's not antiviral in vivo. when you take the drug orally.

 

However, just by pure coincidence and fluke, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that ivermectin might turn out to have beneficial effects for COVID, but not the original reason proposed, but for different reasons: ivermectin is anti-inflammatory, and ivermectin is an immune booster, so either or both of these characteristics could potentially have benefit for COVID.

 

So it still might turn out to be a useful COVID drug. But it would be weird if it did turn out to be effective, given the unscientific way it became a drug of interest in the COVID pandemic: it came into the spotlight because of its supposed antiviral effects, in spite of the fact it was proven to have no clinical antiviral effects. 

Edited by Hip, 30 August 2021 - 01:04 AM.

[Gal220]

FLCCC raised dosage for Delta, their protocol is posted here - Link

Long Covid - Link

 

Japan will probably approve soon - Link , Link2

 

Houston hospital has excellent results compared to others, why not copy the winners? - Link , Link2

With all the mandating going on , why not mandate this for hospitals...

his Houston hospital uses Ivermectin on every single Covid patient that enters. 6% death rate when the average was over 20% in most US hospitals. Dr. Varon helped to create & publish a protocol that works! Physicians & patients use it across the US

 

Interesting map of covid in Africa, countries with and w/o IVM - Link

 

McCullough favors HCQ over IVM for prevention, not sure what kind of consensus there is on that - LInk (49:35)

Edited by Gal220, 31 August 2021 - 12:37 AM.

[PHenry]

Do you know what the dosage was for the Houston hospital?  What was their protocol?

 

What is the general consensus here on dosage.  Do you go strictly based on weight (no upper or lower bounds) or do you cap the maximum and minimum dosages?  I have seen both in the literature I have read.

 

Thanks.

[Mind]

Here is a definitive site describing all of the studies showing Ivermectin is beneficial in the treatment of COVID-19. It is not controversial. Many countries are now using it to good effect

 

https://c19ivermectin.com/

[Gal220]

Do you know what the dosage was for the Houston hospital?  What was their protocol?

 

What is the general consensus here on dosage.  Do you go strictly based on weight (no upper or lower bounds) or do you cap the maximum and minimum dosages?  I have seen both in the literature I have read.

 

Thanks.

 

Houston hospital is closely tied to the FLCCC, they are networked with many doctors and keep their protocol up to date

 

https://covid19criti...-plus-protocol/

[PHenry]

What is the general consensus here on capping dosage of Ivermectin or dosing solely on body weight?

 

I have seen studies do both.  Is it generally safe for the higher dosages which would be associated for larger/heavier individuals?

 

For prophylactic use, is there any concern of longer term use with buildup / accumulation in the tissue of someone taking it?

 

Thank you all.

[APBT]

Ivermectin Global Summit video:

https://www.antiagin...-global-summit/

[APBT]

CV19, Ivermectin and D3:

https://aging-matter...ectin-and-cv19/

[lancebr]

Here is a definitive site describing all of the studies showing Ivermectin is beneficial in the treatment of COVID-19. It is not controversial. Many countries are now using it to good effect

 

https://c19ivermectin.com/

 

 

I wonder if the New York Times has seen this data.  They did an article yesterday where they are saying that Ivermectin is a

drug "typically used to treat parasitic worms that has repeatedly failed in clinical trials to help people infected with the coronavirus."

 

 

They also said:

 

A "recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s

ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug."

 

"One of the largest trials studying ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment, called the Together Trial, was halted by the data safety

monitoring board on Aug. 6 because the drug had been shown to be no better than a placebo at preventing hospitalization or

prolonged stay in the emergency room. Dr. Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the study, which enrolled

more than 1,300 patients, said the team would have discontinued it earlier were it not for the level of public interest in ivermectin."

 

Edited by lancebr, 01 September 2021 - 06:18 PM.

[xEva]

I wonder if the New York Times has seen this data.  They did an article yesterday where they are saying that Ivermectin is a

drug "typically used to treat parasitic worms that has repeatedly failed in clinical trials to help people infected with the coronavirus."

 

 

They also said:

 

A "recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s

ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug."

 

"One of the largest trials studying ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment, called the Together Trial, was halted by the data safety

monitoring board on Aug. 6 because the drug had been shown to be no better than a placebo at preventing hospitalization or

prolonged stay in the emergency room. Dr. Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the study, which enrolled

more than 1,300 patients, said the team would have discontinued it earlier were it not for the level of public interest in ivermectin."

 

 

yes but in order to "normalize" their cohort, they started ivermectin on day 7 after the onset of symptoms. Of course this is better than giving high doses of hydroxychloroquine to ICU patients, but misses the window of opportunity for ivermectin do its antiviral thing. Still they saw a modest effect (around 7% or something) but did not consider it worth the trouble. Oh yes and they gave it only for 3 days.

 

That was yet another ivermectin study that was designed to fail. 

Materials and methods section is often more informative than headlines.

[lancebr]

Here is a good video describing a study of Ivermectin:

 

[Gal220]

What is the general consensus here on capping dosage of Ivermectin or dosing solely on body weight?

 

I have seen studies do both.  Is it generally safe for the higher dosages which would be associated for larger/heavier individuals?

 

For prophylactic use, is there any concern of longer term use with buildup / accumulation in the tissue of someone taking it?

 

Thank you all.

 

FLCCC updated their protocol, from their homepage  - Get the August 26, 2021 version HERE.

 

I would call and get some opinions from treating doctors on dosing - https://twitter.com/...7213304840?s=21

 

Cant hurt to try and give the Houston hospital a call.

 

 

I think its worth it to add Querctin(vit c or bromelain helps absorption) or EGCG(curcumin helps absporption) to whatever you do for the zinc ionophore - link

Whats the best zinc? maybe zinc abscorbate - link

Edited by Gal220, 03 September 2021 - 04:42 AM.

[Mind]

A summary article of all the evidence surrounding Ivermectin.

 

It is beneficial in the treatment of COVID. The totality of the evidence is clear.

 

It is no "enigma" why African countries using ivermectin have a DRAMATICALLY lower mortality rate from COVID. It is an easy conclusion, considering the vast positive evidence supporting the use of Ivermectin.

Attached Files

•  Covid in Africa.png   274.86KB   0 downloads

[zorba990]

Question: What happens if an animal consumes the bacteria that Ivermectin is based on
Streptomyces avermitilis
https://en.wikipedia...ces_avermitilis

I'm concerned that this reliable, well studied medication, Ivermectin, may be taken off the market or otherwise made less available / potent.
And my Horse wouldn't be happy with that outcome.

More importantly, where can I get some to start my own fermentation experiments.. for my cabbage https://www.cabi.org...act/20043199138
And my blue pumpkins ? https://www.etsy.com...m-aktofit-40-ml

What a difference a few years makes:
Streptomyces as a Prominent Resource of Future Anti-MRSA Drugs
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6165876/

Edited by zorba990, 03 September 2021 - 03:13 PM.

[APBT]

The dose makes the poison. 

 

https://currently.at...-053822589.html

 

Oklahoma's ERs are so backed up with people overdosing on ivermectin that gunshot victims are having to wait to be treated, a doctor says

 

Cheryl Teh

Thu, September 2, 2021, 10:38 PM·3 min read

• An ER doctor in Oklahoma said rural hospitals were clogged with people overdosing on ivermectin.
• Jason McElyea said the bed shortage was so severe that gunshot victims had to wait to be treated.
• McElyea said people were reporting vision loss after overdosing on the deworming drug.
• Visit Insider's homepage for more stories.

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told KFOR, an NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City.

McElyea spoke to the channel this week about the dangers of overdosing on the version of ivermectin meant for use in livestock. He said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

He added: "All of their ambulances are stuck at the hospital waiting for a bed to open so they can take the patient in and they don't have any, that's it. If there's no ambulance to take the call, there's no ambulance to come to the call."

McElyea said many of his patients were familiar with the drug. "Growing up in a small town, rural area, we've all accidentally been exposed to ivermectin at some time. So, it's something people are familiar with," he said. "Because of those accidental sticks when trying to inoculate cattle, they're less afraid of it."

But McElyea said he'd seen people suffering from the ramifications of taking doses meant for a full-sized horse, including instances of vision loss, nausea, and vomiting.

"Some people taking inappropriate doses have actually put themselves in worse conditions than if they'd caught COVID," he said.

Oklahoma has reported a total of 557,770 COVID-19 cases and 8,001 deaths, according to The New York Times' case tracker. The state's daily average of new cases was 2,671 on Thursday, a 21% increase over the past 14 days.

US health authorities have said that while some initial research is underway, ivermectin is not approved or recommended as a treatment for COVID-19.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a health advisory last week warning that people could become severely ill from self-medicating with ivermectin and that overdosing could cause a coma, seizures, and death.

The milder side effects are also very unpleasant, including nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, low blood pressure, dizziness, and other allergic reactions, according to the Food and Drug Administration.

The FDA has also urged people not to self-medicate with the version of the drug intended for livestock, saying the formula used for animals differs greatly from the types approved for use in humans.

Despite health authorities' warnings, data from the CDC indicates that people are continuing to take ivermectin. From early July to the week of August 13, pharmacies filled more than 88,000 ivermectin prescriptions, about 24 times the weekly average in the year to March 13, 2020, the CDC said on August 26.

The US National Institutes of Health is conducting a trial to see whether ivermectin could help people with mild or moderate COVID-19 cope better. A University of Oxford trial is also studying ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment.

Read the original article on Insider

 

 

[Mind]

The dose makes the poison. 

 

This is a correct statement. More people needed to be reminded of this, no matter if it is "supplements" or medications.

 

In addition, the story about people overdosing on Ivermectin in Oklahoma was completely false. Mainstream US media outlets are not to be trusted. The hospital has a statement on their website (today) saying the doctor quoted about it - DOESN'T even work at the hospital.

 

https://www.zerohedg...s-no-ivermectin

 

Back to the topic at hand:

 

The American Journal of Therapeutics finds very positive results in using Ivermectin to treat COVID.

 

It works. The studies are legit.

 

The Tokyo Medical Association endorsed its use many months ago. They saw the evidence. It is not a difficult choice.

[Mind]

Just to present an extreme opposite opinion on Ivermectin. Here is a video of Gideon Meyerwirz-Katz, essentially claiming every single bit of data regarding Ivermectin use is fraudulent, junk, or otherwise not reliable. All of the doctors, all of the researchers, hospitals etc... who have conducted the trials have no clue what they are doing or are faking the data. Ivermectin Misinformation DEBUNKED w/ Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz (rumble.com)

[Dorian Grey]

Just to present an extreme opposite opinion on Ivermectin. Here is a video of Gideon Meyerwirz-Katz, essentially claiming every single bit of data regarding Ivermectin use is fraudulent, junk, or otherwise not reliable. All of the doctors, all of the researchers, hospitals etc... who have conducted the trials have no clue what they are doing or are faking the data. Ivermectin Misinformation DEBUNKED w/ Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz (rumble.com)

 

That's quite a powerful critique Mind.  I've had growing concerns about IVM since Dr Kory's August 9 tweet: 

 

I have experienced and am getting reports from FLCCC Alliance members that Delta variant patients crashing into ICU’s… are not showing responses to MATH+. We are demoralized and frightened. Early treatment is CRITICAL. Every household should take I-MASK+ upon first symptoms.

 

The ever increasing doses prescribed by FLCCC are also a bit worrying.  Most of us know taking IVM with a fatty meal (recommended by FLCCC) increases absorption 2.5 times.  Virtually all IVM for human consumption is labeled to take on an empty stomach.  This would mean for me, @ 200 pounds, A 18mg dose, with a fatty meal would equal 45mg empty stomach dosing.  Taken twice per week (their new prophylaxis protocol) would be equal to 90mg/wk, or 360mg/month which is a bit spooky in my book.  

 

The safety record for IVM is quite impressive, but I don't know that anyone has studied the safety of 360mg/month for extended periods of time.  

 

I want a new drug!  

[lancebr]

Just to present an extreme opposite opinion on Ivermectin. Here is a video of Gideon Meyerwirz-Katz, essentially claiming every single bit of data regarding Ivermectin use is fraudulent, junk, or otherwise not reliable. All of the doctors, all of the researchers, hospitals etc... who have conducted the trials have no clue what they are doing or are faking the data. Ivermectin Misinformation DEBUNKED w/ Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz (rumble.com)

 

I noticed that in the comments under that video that people are refering to Gideon as a shill and hack for Big Pharma.

 

They mention that he just cherry picks certain data that makes Ivermectin look bad, but won't talk about the data

that makes it look good.

 

Some commenters do appear to make some interesting points about Gideon's biases toward Ivermectin and

his cherry picking of data.

 

(These are not my opinions....just the opinions of the people in the video comment section).

Edited by lancebr, 19 September 2021 - 06:45 PM.

[lancebr]

That's quite a powerful critique Mind.  I've had growing concerns about IVM since Dr Kory's August 9 tweet: 

 

 

 

The ever increasing doses prescribed by FLCCC are also a bit worrying.  Most of us know taking IVM with a fatty meal (recommended by FLCCC) increases absorption 2.5 times.  Virtually all IVM for human consumption is labeled to take on an empty stomach.  This would mean for me, @ 200 pounds, A 18mg dose, with a fatty meal would equal 45mg empty stomach dosing.  Taken twice per week (their new prophylaxis protocol) would be equal to 90mg/wk, or 360mg/month which is a bit spooky in my book.  

The safety record for IVM is quite impressive, but I don't know that anyone has studied the safety of 360mg/month for extended periods of time.  

 

I want a new drug!  

 

 

So have you heard anything about this other protocol called Niatonin (Flush type Niacin and Melatonin)?

 

https://www.peakpros...u9m37zblgnr.jpg

 

Some are saying it is a good treatment in place of Ivermectin, and is also good for Covid long hauler symptoms.

 

Edited by lancebr, 19 September 2021 - 07:49 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

So have you heard anything about this other protocol called Niatonin (Flush type Niacin and Melatonin)?

 

https://www.peakpros...u9m37zblgnr.jpg

 

Some are saying it is a good treatment in place of Ivermectin, and is also good for Covid long hauler symptoms.

 

I've got both niacin & melatonin in my medicine chest in case I fall ill, but I got intrigued by both Zelenko & McCullough's HCQ prophylaxis of 200-400mg (low dose) HCQ per week with zinc.  

 

No one has ever taken hundreds of mg's IVM per month for years at a time, but plenty of folks (Lupus & RA patients) have done this with HCQ.  It appears neither protocol will effectively prevent infection (Dr Kory got the 'rona on IVM prophylaxis); but it's beginning to look like everyone will catch this bug sooner or later.  The key is to avoid hospitalization & death, & develop lasting immunity from the actual infection. 

 

Dr Marik said something on one of his videos that really caught my attention.  The problem with HCQ is, red blood cells absorb almost all HCQ during the first few days of administration, and by the time you get good serum & tissue levels, the window for the antiviral effect has passed. 

 

I didn't save this video, and can't find it now, so sorry no link, but I have read that red blood cells have a very high affinity for HCQ.  This is why it works so well for malaria (the malaria parasite consumes red blood cells).  

 

This got me thinking...  What if you keep red blood cells saturated with HCQ, with weekly low dose maintenance?  Then, when you fall ill, simply up the dose to therapeutic levels (adding more zinc).  You would avoid the delay in achieving high serum/tissue levels, and get the antiviral effect much earlier.  

 

The immune modulation from HCQ also takes time to work, & lupus patients are advised they may not get much benefit from HCQ till they have been on it for a month or so.  Would low dose / maintenance HCQ also provide for a snappier immune modulation response when you up the dose to therapeutic levels during the early phase of disease?  

 

Don't know, but I'm going with HCQ/zinc prophylaxis, and will add IVM if I fall ill.  Have a budesonide inhaler to round out my acute disease stack.  

Attached Files

•  Zelenko Prophylaxis Protocol.pdf   43.45KB   5 downloads

Edited by Dorian Grey, 19 September 2021 - 09:38 PM.