447 replies to this topic

[Hip]

Plenty of evidence that it is effective in most cases.

 

When the meta-analyses of ivermectin clinical trials are re-done to remove the fraudulent third world papers, it is expected that the results will show ivermectin does not have any benefit for COVID. 

[Gal220]

You say "brainwashing" yet you only approve of treatments once they are approved by your gurus. Is it the people who question the gurus (the Mercolas the Syeds tec.) who are brainwashed or the people who follow them? Does "Genetic fallacy" hold for those who are ant-vax and refuse to read any of the studies that highlight how safe and effective they are? Or is "genetic fallacy" only apply to those who question quacks like Mercola and those who dare question conspiracy theories?

 

If you had been paying attention in these threads, most people have been posting ideas not covered by the "gurus."  Personally I think they could do more to mention NAD+, NAC, inhalation therapy, and natural antivirals like beta glucans/EGCG(although new I-mask does mention curcumin and nigella sativa, cant hate on that)

 

Personally I never gave your precious Vax another thought after reading about inhalation therapy in 2020, especially when I am 99.9%+ to survive and doing way more than the avg person.  If you want to pretend think the VAERs /Eudra Vigilance off the chart vax injury data is imaginary b/c of your confirmation bias, suit yourself. 

[Hip]

Personally I never gave your precious Vax another thought 

 

Vaccinated people are three times less likely to have COVID, so that means the vaccinated are three times less likely to pass COVID on to others.

 

Would it bother you if you caught COVID and passed it on, and it led to the death of others?  

Edited by Hip, 24 October 2021 - 05:10 AM.

[Gal220]

Vaccinated people are three times less likely to have COVID, so that means the vaccinated are three times less likely to pass COVID on to others.

 

Would it bother you if you caught COVID and passed it on, and it led to the death of others?  

 

Things changed with Delta, IF IF you really care about passing it around, do what dentist are doing and actually KILL the virus..

 

As it is, the only sterilizing immunity is natural immunity

Edited by Gal220, 24 October 2021 - 05:24 AM.

[Hip]

Things changed with Delta, 

 

No, the delta variant does not change what I said, because my study actually refers to the delta variant, as the study took place this summer, when the delta variant was the dominant strain in the UK. The study shows unvaccinated people are 3 times more likely to have COVID.  

 

Your study just shows that the viral load is the same between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. So once you catch COVID, you are just as likely to pass it on to others whether you are vaccinated or not, because in both cases the viral load is high.

 

BUT, if you are vaccinated, you are three times less likely to catch COVID in the first place. And that makes a world of difference.

 

 

Vaccinated people are playing their role in reducing the spread of COVID. Whereas unvaccinated people are spreading three times more COVID than vaccinated individuals, and thus the unvaccinated are responsible for 3 times more COVID deaths in people other than themselves.

Edited by Hip, 24 October 2021 - 05:49 AM.

[Gal220]

Vaccinated people are playing their role in reducing the spread of COVID. Whereas unvaccinated people are spreading three times more COVID than vaccinated individuals, and thus the unvaccinated are responsible for 3 times more COVID deaths in people other than themselves.

 

"the report shows elsewhere that vaccinated adults are now being infected at much HIGHER rates than the unvaccinated" - link

 

However I wish our CDC and other health agencies would quit protecting their Vax dollars and tell people about daily antiseptic use.  Obviously stopping spread is not the real goal..

[Gal220]

When the meta-analyses of ivermectin clinical trials are re-done to remove the fraudulent third world papers, it is expected that the results will show ivermectin does not have any benefit for COVID. 

 

Japan doctors also joining the 3rd world folks in using it - link

"Tokyo's Medical Assoc. Chairman holds live press conference recommending #ivermectin to all doctors, for all Covid patients. "

[Gal220]

This is an extremely dangerous and counterproductive talking point. Stop it.

While I agree, like hand washing, daily gargle/nasal rinse would kill the virus where the infection starts and cut down on spread tremendously. Thus saving lives

. 

It really is negligent of our health agencies not to promote this protocol, its been known since 2020...Dentist in my area were doing it this time last year.

Edited by Gal220, 24 October 2021 - 03:40 PM.

[Hip]

That is some speculative hyperbole regarding "fraudulent third world papers".

If you have been following this thread, you would know this is not speculative. It has been established that one third of the ivermectin studies were fraudulent: these were the studies from the third world which showed massive benefits from ivermectin. It turns out that the study authors faked their positive results.

The legitimate studies indicate that ivermectin has no major benefit for COVID.


 

India and Japan, tamed their crises by using Ivermectin. That is a fact.

 
Can you point me to a study which concluded that ivermectin tamed the COVID crises in India and Japan. I mean proper scientific papers, not speculation of some random website.

 

They soften the conclusion by stating it shows there is no increased mortality in the vaccinated groups, but they also make it clear that vaccinated people have a lower death rate from all non covid causes. Why would they even conduct such a study, if not to convince people to take a vaccine?

 
Of course the study was done to show that the vaccine is safe, which will then alleviate fears about taking it. Nobody is denying that.

Edited by Hip, 24 October 2021 - 07:46 PM.

[pamojja]

...I doubt any of the deniers will read it (how is that for Genetic fallacy for you?) 

 

The abstract:

 

..All relevant publications were systematically searched and collected from major databases up to 12 March 2021.

 

I think nobody would deny that study. The problem is 12th March was only 2 months - or even much less including all studies up to that date - after the first very small percentage of the populations had  been vaccinated. Israel cancelled its vaccine passport validity already 6 months later...
 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

In re: post #191, where Hip makes the 1/3 fraudulent studies claim, yet again.

 

In post #100 I wrote:

 

"Hip, did you read Sheldrick's original work about the 26 ivermectin studies?" --From which the supposed 1/3 claim is made--not the BBC saying it's there, but the actual "publication".

 

In post #101 Hip wrote: 

 

"Nothing is published yet, as you know, so we can only go by Sheldrick's video, and what he says on his Twitter account."

 

In other words, no, he didn't read the errant study, because it's nowhere to be found. A Twitter claim is crap until substantiated by fact.

He goes on with a rare quasi-admission of reality: "You claim it is unscientific to believe Sheldrick's assertions without examining the evidence. Well you might be right."

 

As of your post #101--"Nothing is published yet", --and yet you persist (post #191) in spreading the BS that 1/3 of the ivermectin studies were fraudulent.

 

Or, do you now, Hip, in the interregnum of posts 101 and 191, have a link to the, as of yet fictional, published work?

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 24 October 2021 - 09:53 PM.

[geo12the]

In re: post #191, where Hip makes the 1/3 fraudulent studies claim, yet again.

 

In post #100 I wrote:

 

"Hip, did you read Sheldrick's original work about the 26 ivermectin studies?" --From which the supposed 1/3 claim is made--not the BBC saying it's there, but the actual "publication".

 

In post #101 Hip wrote: 

 

"Nothing is published yet, as you know, so we can only go by Sheldrick's video, and what he says on his Twitter account."

 

In other words, no, he didn't read the errant study, because it's nowhere to be found. A Twitter claim is crap until substantiated by fact.

He goes on with a rare quasi-admission of reality: "You claim it is unscientific to believe Sheldrick's assertions without examining the evidence. Well you might be right."

 

As of your post #101--"Nothing is published yet", --and yet you persist (post #191) in spreading the BS that 1/3 of the ivermectin studies were fraudulent.

 

Or, do you now, Hip, in the interregnum of posts 101 and 191, have a link to the, as of yet fictional, published work?

 

I am not sure about all of the details in the back and forth with Hip you refer to but it's pretty common knowledge in the COVID field that lots of the Ivermectin studies were flawed. Here are some relevant links:

 

https://www.chemistr...4014477.article

https://www.nature.c...591-021-01535-y

 

This is an interesting story about one of the researchers involved:

 

https://www.theguard...-death-threats 

 

It is what it is. I am agnostic about Ivermectin. I will wait till more studies come out but right now the evidence it works as a treatment for covid  is negative to inconclusive, nonmatter what Gal's gurus claim. It doesn't make sense to me that people are sort of cheerleading  these drugs -HCQ and Ivermectin like it's some kind of a sports game and they want their team to win and they just can't accept that their team might not win. Just let the science finish and reveal what it reveals and accept the reality. 

 

 

 

 

[joesixpack]

 

If you have been following this thread, you would know this is not speculative. It has been established that one third of the ivermectin studies were fraudulent: these were the studies from the third world which showed massive benefits from ivermectin. It turns out that the study authors faked their positive results.

The legitimate studies indicate that ivermectin has no major benefit for COVID.


 

 
Can you point me to a study which concluded that ivermectin tamed the COVID crises in India and Japan. I mean proper scientific papers, not speculation of some random website.

 

 
Of course the study was done to show that the vaccine is safe, which will then alleviate fears about taking it. Nobody is denying that.

 

 

I won't bother with the "studies". US studies were designed to fail, and you have already dismissed foreign studies as fraudulent.

 

How about a news article from India, providing facts? https://indianexpres...hs-low-7311786/

 

Here is one of my favorites. https://www.cnbsnews...illing-indians/

 

And Japan, mentioning India. https://rclutz.com/2...ectin-in-japan/

 

Also, within weeks of the green light from Medical Association, this. https://www.gpb.org/...teps-nationwide

[geo12the]

 

 

How about a news article from India, providing facts? https://indianexpres...hs-low-7311786/

 

 

 

Those facts are questionable. Read here:

 

https://healthfeedba...-uttar-pradesh/

[DougClean]

Don't know why people are down on Ivermectin? Its now been used over 500 Million times around the world for Covid19

It works good when taken early along with other drugs like Asprin, Doxycycline and some also add Hydroxycloriquin and many others.

 

Here is a fun fact.. Ivermectin also works on the regular Flu.

 

Just for that reason alone I bought some so the next time the bug visits my house I wont be sick for 7 days and have my lungs all inflamed.

 

I already had Covid19 last year so I am not worried about catching it again....

 

If it didn't kill me last time it has even less of a chance next time but my Mom and others I know have not got it yet so I bought some just to be safe.

My brother had Covid last month and after taking Ivermectin he got better in 3-4 days even tho he did not take the correct amount witch for delta is 12-23mg for a average man at 160LB.

So get some Ivermectin even if you have been vaxed since the vaccine has a 40-60% failure rate better safe than sorry.

 

PS: The vaccine has killed at least 9,000 people possibly up to 45,000...... Ivermectin deaths in 2021= 0

[DougClean]

I hate being lied to... That's how you get a Dr to say you cant catch that from a doorknob.

 

Other countries have a lower death rate than The USA  because they are using Ivemectin.

 

Ivemectin  and other treatments like Monoclonal Antibody Treatments aren't being used in the USA in our Hospitals

Other countries have a lower death rate than us because they are using Ivemectin.

Indian state with 240 million people completely eradicated covid with ivermectin

 

dreddymd DOT COM /2021/09/23/indian-completely-eradicated-covid-with-ivermectin/

 

The other day India reported 12 deaths in a state with 240 million people

use Duckduckgo not Google to find the truth.

The Undeniable Ivermectin Miracle in India’s 240m Populated Largest State, Uttar Pradesh

newsrescue DOT COM /the-undeniable-ivermectin-miracle-indias-240m-populated-largest-state-uttar-pradesh-horowitz/

 

Trump gets monoclonal antibody treatment better in 5 days

 

Joe Rogen gets monoclonal antibody treatment and ivermectin gets better in 3 days

 

Your Grandma gets Remdesver and dies in the USA  hospital in 22 days.... Nice job USA

 

The treatments are working but we don't use them in the USA

Smart scientific people have just killed 700,000 people...... Thanks.

 

Australia told us about ivermectin in august of 2020 There not a 3rd world country.... They said it works about 90% of the time.

Here it is 2021 and we in the USA are not using it yet....... Why?

 

Please stop killing people by giving them ibuprofen and Gatorade like the Mayo clinic is doing.

 

 I can read and the facts say Ivermectin works, Monoclonal Antibody Treatment works.......... It's the hospitals in the USA that are killing people.

 

So Please can the so called Smart scientific people just let the rest of us get the drugs we need not to die.

 

[Hip]

Australia told us about ivermectin in august of 2020

 

An Australian study found ivermectin is antiviral for SARS-CoV-2 in vitro.

 

Not the same as in vivo.

 

Are you clear on the meaning of in vitro and in vivo?

[geo12the]

I hate being lied to... That's how you get a Dr to say you cant catch that from a doorknob.

 

Other countries have a lower death rate than The USA  because they are using Ivemectin.

 

Ivemectin  and other treatments like Monoclonal Antibody Treatments aren't being used in the USA in our Hospitals

Other countries have a lower death rate than us because they are using Ivemectin.

Indian state with 240 million people completely eradicated covid with ivermectin

 

dreddymd DOT COM /2021/09/23/indian-completely-eradicated-covid-with-ivermectin/

 

The other day India reported 12 deaths in a state with 240 million people

use Duckduckgo not Google to find the truth.

The Undeniable Ivermectin Miracle in India’s 240m Populated Largest State, Uttar Pradesh

newsrescue DOT COM /the-undeniable-ivermectin-miracle-indias-240m-populated-largest-state-uttar-pradesh-horowitz/

 

 

 

The India story is being distorted. Read more here: 

 

https://healthfeedba...-uttar-pradesh/

 

Monoclonals??? The US is using monoclonals. I don't know why you think they are not being used but they are. Monoclonals are available and free to those with COVID in the US.  Read more here:

 

https://www.washingt...7ff0_story.html

 

"Monoclonal antibodies are free to patients and there have been almost no side effects. They are accessible on an outpatient basis, via a single infusion or four injections. Hospitals, urgent-care centers and even private doctors are authorized to dispense them."

[Gal220]

Trialsitenews article up, successful IVM study with 600 patients. - link1, link2

 

 

From Covid19Crusher

 

32 Japanese clinics and hospitals listed here are prescribing ivermectin against Covid-19. There is no official recommendation, but many doctors prescribe this early treatment.

Edited by Gal220, 29 October 2021 - 02:21 PM.

[Gal220]

Dr. John Campbell shows how Ivermectin works the same way the new Pfizer pill does and then proceeds to call out word leaders

 

You're not a horse, you're not a cow, .. you've got a human intellect, lets use it to follow the scientific evidence to save human pain, suffering, and death

 

https://youtu.be/pPPdQRUwAgk?t=1326

[DougClean]

The India story is being distorted. Read more here: 

 

https://healthfeedba...-uttar-pradesh/

 

Monoclonals??? The US is using monoclonals. I don't know why you think they are not being used but they are. Monoclonals are available and free to those with COVID in the US.  Read more here:

 

https://www.washingt...7ff0_story.html

 

"Monoclonal antibodies are free to patients and there have been almost no side effects. They are accessible on an outpatient basis, via a single infusion or four injections. Hospitals, urgent-care centers and even private doctors are authorized to dispense them."

 

I think you made my point for me......

 

Monoclonal Antibodies are Accessible On An Outpatient basis?

 

Once you are admitted to a hospital you are not an out patient and will not get the Monoclonal treatment.

 

That's why Florida had to set up pup tents all over the state to get the treatment out.

 

Hospitals refused to use Ivermectin or Monoclonal treatment.

There just following the guidelines set by the FDA and CDC

 

Thanks  FDA and CDC for killing thousand of people for no reason other than to make money.

 

But they will give you ibuprofen

PS: We were told by the french in April of 2020 that Ibuprofen makes Covid 19 worse.

 

 

 

 

[Lady4T]

Thanks  FDA and CDC for killing thousand of people for no reason other than to make money.

 

I wonder if any of these criminals will ever be prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned.

Here's to hoping...

[Hip]

I wonder if any of these criminals will ever be prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned.

Here's to hoping...

 

It is the antivax groups led by Robert F Kennedy Jr, Dr Joseph Mercola, Sayer Ji, etc whose lethal message (which sadly propagates on forums like this one) which must be prosecuted. They use sophisticated emotional techniques to brainwash people. 

 

I take issue with Sayer Ji's website GreenMedInfo, which misleads people into thinking that herbs are effective antivirals. Sayer Ji's site references lots of studies which show herbs and supplements have antiviral effects in vitro, but he fails to make readers aware that nearly all of the time, these in vitro effects do not appear in vivo. Of course, it would not be in Sayer Ji's business interests to actually tell the truth about the supplements he features.

 

Edited by Hip, 12 November 2021 - 08:14 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

It is the antivax groups led by Robert F Kennedy Jr, Dr Joseph Mercola, Sayer Ji, etc whose lethal message (which sadly propagates on forums like this one) which must be prosecuted. They use sophisticated emotional techniques to brainwash people. 

 

I take issue with Sayer Ji's website GreenMedInfo, which misleads people into thinking that herbs are effective antivirals. Sayer Ji's site references lots of studies which show herbs and supplements have antiviral effects in vitro, but he fails to make readers aware that nearly all of the time, these in vitro effects do not appear in vivo. Of course, it would not be in Sayer Ji's business interests to actually tell the truth about the supplements he features.

 

How are we going to have a free and open society when some people constantly call for the prosecution of people with which they disagree?

 

You are essentially taking the position that is popularly held that the Catholic Church took against Galileo - The science is settled (the sun orbits the earth) and we must prevent people from spreading false information. 

 

Settled science isn't really a thing. And you can't silence some people without stifling debate in all areas of society, including the scientific community. And since the government censors are as fallible as anyone else and often times have motives other than the public good, you will inevitably end up censoring/prosecuting people that are entirely correct. You will put a chill on any sort of scientific debate.

 

In the long run, your cure is worse than the disease.

 

After all, the fact that diseases were caused by miasmas and Newtonian Physics were all settled science at some point. Don't fall into the hubris of thinking that we are so much smarter than people in the past and our censorship would be purely benevolent.

 

This is an imperfect world. Great death and misery has occurred from people that fail to recognize that fact. You have to take the long term outlook. 

[Gal220]

How are we going to have a free and open society when some people constantly call for the prosecution of people with which they disagree?

 

The problem I see on most forums is a lack of recognition that vaccines, like all medicine, have various degrees of side effects.

  .

These vaccines have far more side effects and have been fully approved without investigation into the harm they have caused.

 

Society has taken a terrible turn here where doctors are encouraged not to report side effects and the people taking these shot are not informed

of the tragic outcomes that are a real possibility - link1, link2

 

 

Now with the approval of Mercks new drug, we see more pharmaceutical bias vs alternative drugs like Fluvoxamine and Ivermectin.

 

The FDA approves Molnupiravir by 13 votes to 10. If you're hit by Delta, Merck's trial data show with a 95% confidence that your risk of hospitalization or death is: 

-reduced by 7.8% or increased by 2.9% (absolute)

-reduced by 57% or increased by 42% (relative), p=0.41

Molnupiravir is probably approved without statistically significant data because it was a pre-specified decision (and the drug pre-ordered by several governments).

 

 

Harvard's Dr. Risch shows HCQ, IVM, and other therapeutics have been very successful, but again, no one is informed about these alternative, b/c as we see with Merck's drugs,

It was all about monetizing the pandemic for Pharma. Even at the expense of lives and permanent organ damage, the US is the worst, still using Remdesivir at a 20% kickback for hospitals

Edited by Gal220, 01 December 2021 - 10:37 PM.

[joesixpack]

Ivermectin is one of the safest, cheapest, and most effective drugs on the market, and has shown very good data on its effectiveness against COVID-19. IT SHOULD BE IN THE TREATMENT ARSENAL OF EVERY COUNTRY.

 

The denial of almost every out-patient treatment for COVID-19 by the FDA and CDC (besides mRNA gene therapies), shows a callous disregard for human life.

 

Or it is about big money. The only way a vaccine can be given an EUA, is to demonstrate that there is no effective treatment for the disease. If they allowed Ivermectin and other existing treatments to exist, the FDA could not legally grant an EUA to any of the "vaccines".

 

If I am wrong on this point, please correct me.

[Mind]

Remember the Oxford Ivermectin trial, which some leading researchers claim was designed to fail - by enrolling people with advanced COVID, when most of the doctors who claim successful treatment, say it has to be started early in the disease.

 

It has been paused due to lack of supply of Ivermectin. I always under the impression that competent clinical researchers secured adequate supply to complete the trial...before starting the trial.

[Gal220]

Nature article on the 20 ways Ivermectin works against covid - https://t.co/ahlreEZ0Rj

[Hip]

Nature article on the 20 ways Ivermectin works against covid - https://t.co/ahlreEZ0Rj

 

The authors' previous study on I'mACretin was retracted. That is a bad stigma for any researcher.

 

 

How come you are no longer talking about what you believe is the amazing life saving effects of ivermectin in India?

 

Is that because studies in India have shown that ivermectin has little or no effect on COVID?

Edited by Hip, 28 December 2021 - 01:35 AM.

[Mind]

The manufacturer providing Ivermectin to the Principle trial says there is no problem with the Ivermectin supply. Makes you wonder about the Oxford study. Who is running the media/outreach for the trial and do they know what they are doing.