447 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

"initial RCT trials"?  Are these multi-million dollar multi-center, randomized, placebo controlled, double blinded RCTs like Recovery, Solidarity or Together?  

 

A trial must also be adequately powered to give accurate results.  These "Initial Trials" you speak of must be puny endeavors indeed. Spotting Special Olympics science is amateur hour.  

 

I'm talking world class Gates/Wellcome/WHO trials, intentionally engineered to fail by design.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 11 October 2023 - 11:25 PM.

[Hip]

"initial RCT trials"?  Are these multi-million dollar multi-center, randomized, placebo controlled, double blinded RCTs like Recovery, Solidarity or Together?  [/size]

No, small scale trials involving say 20 or 30 people. Clinical trials usually start as small scale, and then if a positive result is seen, larger trials are conducted. Many small scale trials show positive results, but then when larger scale trials are performed, those positive results often vanish.


 

I'm talking world class Gates/Wellcome/WHO trials, intentionally engineered to fail by design.  [/size]

 
Are you sure it is not schizotypy talking? This common mental condition affects 1 in 20 people, so is extremely widespread, and results in people believing conspiracy theories such as the idea there is a secret controlling organisation of people who mastermind every world event. 
 
The view that clinical trials are all secretly controlled by some unseen cabal is classic schizotypy.

 

Something to consider. 

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

I actually have been diagnosed slightly schizoid.  I'm a 21st Century Schizoid Man!  (with thanks to King Crimson) 

 

Recovery & Solidarity aren't conspiracy theories though.  They actually withheld treatment, & had patients isolate at home until their lungs clotted off, they couldn't breath & became hypoxic, & had a raging cytokine storm in progress.  Then they admitted them to hospital and started them on a trial med that showed antiviral properties in vitro.  You can't make this kind of stuff up. 

 

Dr Zelinko on the other hand looked at what we've learned from a quarter century of Tamiflu & influenza, & decided to try treating early.  His PCR tests were taking 3 days to turn around, & most of his patients had already been symptomatic for a day or so before they managed to get tested.  HCQ is about as benign as aspirin, so Dr Z just started them on it immediately, before the PCR tests even came back.  If negative, they could just quit the meds, no harm no foul.  

 

He got better results than Recovery or Solidarity...  "Therefore, the odds of hospitalization of treated patients were 84% less than in the untreated group"

[Hip]

I myself suffer from some of the symptoms of what is known as simple schizophrenia, a form of schizophrenia which only involves the negative symptoms, and not the positive symptoms such as psychosis. Although sometimes I experience a slight hint of psychosis too, where I find reality becomes harder to interpret.

 

In my case, I found very low doses of the amazing 3rd generation antipsychotic called amisulpride really helpful. Antipsychotics usually come with a lot of serious side effects, for example they can induce type 2 diabetes; but studies have demonstrated that very low dose amisulpride does not have these side effect risks, which is why I am happy to take it. I take just 12.5 mg daily (whereas the full dose is 400 mg daily or higher). 

 

Unlike 1st and 2nd generation antipsychotics which antagonise the dopamine D2 receptor, 3rd generation antipsychotics modulate this D2 receptor in a more intelligent and adaptive fashion: they boost the receptor when the dopamine signal is low, but block the receptor in an antagonistic fashion when the dopamine signal is high. For this reason, these 3rd generation antipsychotics are also called dopamine system stabilisers. Some people have hailed amisulpride as the "wonder drug from France".

Edited by Hip, 12 October 2023 - 04:02 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

In my case, I found very low doses of the amazing 3rd generation antipsychotic called amisulpride really helpful. Antipsychotics usually come with a lot of serious side effects, for example they can induce type 2 diabetes; but studies have demonstrated very low dose amisulpride does not have these side effects risks, which is why I am happy to take it. It take just 12.5 mg daily (whereas the full dose is 400 mg daily or higher).

 

Amisulpride is indeed interesting AP:

 

lowdoses preferentially block inhibitory presynaptic autoreceptors. This results in a facilitation of dopamine activity, and for this reason, low-dose amisulpride has also been used to treat dysthymia.[6]

→ source (external link)

 

It also binds to the GHB receptor.

 

Oh well, I guess we went off-topic hehe.

 

About Ivermectin:

 

Sincedrugs that inhibit the enzyme CYP3A4 often also inhibit P-glycoprotein transport, the risk of increased absorption past the blood-brain barrier exists when ivermectin is administered along with other CYP3A4 inhibitors. These drugs include statins, HIV protease inhibitors, many calcium channel blockers, lidocaine, the benzodiazepines, and glucocorticoids such as dexamethasone.[64]

→ source (external link)

 

So Ivermectin can be dangerous when on a benzodiazepine?

[Hip]

Amisulpride is indeed interesting

 

You might find my thread on very low dose amisulpride of interest. I found this to be an amazing drug, that helped so many of my symptoms.

[Dorian Grey]

OH My!  https://finance.yaho...-213049999.html

 

Pfizer to price COVID treatment Paxlovid at $1,390 per course

 

Oct 18 (Reuters) - Pfizer on Wednesday said it will set the U.S. price for its COVID-19 antiviral treatment Paxlovid at nearly $1,400 per five-day course when it moves to commercial sales after government stocks run out, more than double what the government currently pays for it.

 

------------------------------

 

Now we know why HCQ & IVM were so vehemently suppressed!  Just imagine if a cheap generic worked as well or better than Pax.  

 

And of course: 250,000 Courses of Paxlovid Administered Weekly, Pfizer CEO Says

 

https://www.webmd.co...pfizer-ceo-says

 

I'm not too good at math...  How much is $1390 X 250,000 X 52 (weeks in a year)???

 

Life is GOOD in Pfizerland!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 19 October 2023 - 02:09 AM.

[geo12the]

Recent paper that shows lack of efficacy of Ivermectin for COVID.

 

https://www.thelance...493-0/fulltext#

 

[Dorian Grey]

Recent paper that shows lack of efficacy of Ivermectin for COVID.

 

https://www.thelance...493-0/fulltext#

 

 

It appears they are looking at viral clearance as their sole endpoint.  Interesting, but if staying out of the hospital and/or staying alive is what you're interested in, then I would seek out studies looking at hospitalization and/or mortality as primary endpoints.  

 

I still recall the doc treating patients in Africa with IVM who said her nurse could see the change in the pleth line of the oxygen saturation monitor; and would tell her "this one is ready to be released" when she would come in, every morning.  They would come in with a muddy pleth line, & around 12-24 hours after the IVM the line would perk-up nicely, indicating capillary blood was flowing more robustly again.  

[Hip]

It appears they are looking at viral clearance as their sole endpoint.  Interesting, but if staying out of the hospital and/or staying alive is what you're interested in, then I would seek out studies looking at hospitalization and/or mortality as primary endpoints.  

 

Ivermectin is not antiviral for SARS-CoV-2, which was obvious from the beginning, for anyone who looked at the pharmacokinetics. Only incompetent doctors like those at the FLCCC Alliance kept pushing the idea ivermectin is antiviral.

 

However, ivermectin has some anti-inflammatory properties, which might explain how it reduces the chances of death in COVID hospitalised patients. Ivermectin ramps up the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway, as it is a positive allosteric modulator of the alpha-7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. So this could calm the lung inflammation in COVID patients.

 

Ivermectin also kills strongyles, a worm parasite endemic in certain 3rd world countries which can proliferate in the body when corticosteroids are given in hospital to treat COVID. This proliferation of strongyles can exacerbate COVID, but ivermectin is an insurance policy against corticosteroid-induced strongylosis in COVID patients.

 

So there are reason why ivermectin may help COVID patients. But those reasons do not include an antiviral effect. People like the FLCCC Alliance who were touting an antiviral effect misled people. 

Edited by Hip, 22 October 2023 - 04:53 AM.

[joesixpack]

The hysterical rejection of conventional treatment during the COVID pandemic by some uneducated quarters of the general public, including extremely safe and effective therapeutics like the COVID vaccines, is one of the worst episodes of US general public thinking. It should be obvious to everyone by now that innocent lives were sacrificed for political reasons advanced by the antivax groups, such as the antivax organisation run by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Actually there was no treatment or therapeutics offered. Just sent people home until they either got better, or went to the hospital.

 

Vaccines are not therapeutics.

[Hip]

Vaccines are not therapeutics.

 

True, vaccines are usually prophylactics rather than therapeutics. 

[Mind]

Not only was the effectiveness of Paxlovid exaggerated, Remdesivir is no longer being recommended by the WHO. It should have NEVER been used to treat COVID, considering the known severe side effects of the drug.

 

So just to review:

 

During the COVID panic, very expensive drugs with known severe side effects and questionable efficacy were forced upon the public.

 

Meanwhile, extremely safe AND cheap award winning drugs that had been used for decades AND had previously been shown to be effective against SARS-CoV1 (HCQ) AND had multiple studies showing some benefit in treating COVID (HCQ and IVM)  - were trashed by public health authorities. Not only trashed - but a widespread vitriolic campaign was initiated to destroy the lives of anyone promoting the use of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine.

 

Even if IVM and HCQ did not provide any benefit (they do, according to multiple studies), it would have been a very cheap and safe undertaking to have more people try it out during the COVID panic. HCQ and IVM have multiple beneficial effects outside of the treatment for COVID.

 

But then Pfizer and Moderna would not have raked in the huge profits. Not only did they pump billions of dollars into the national media outlets to promote their products, they also fund the fact-checking organizations. To this day, most people are not aware of how deeply they were manipulated during the COVID panic.

[Daniel Cooper]

Yeah, Remdesivir never really worked. It should never have been promoted for covid-19.

 

That drug has been a cure in search of a disease for maybe a decade now. Tried on many viral infections, so far it's been really useful for none in humans.

 

Initially developed for hepatitis C and RSV - didn't work for those. Then tried for Ebola and Marburg and not very useful for those two either. Then tried for covid.

 

Ivermectin was criticized as people taking "horse paste" for covid - yet the main application of the new hotshot treatment for covid turned out to be "feline infectious peritonitis".

 

Irony, you are a fickle mistress.

 

 

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Following Mind's link above led to https://dailyclout.i...ing-remdesivir/

 

Why Are Hospitals Still Using Remdesivir?

 

From page 1 of comments:

 

Veklury sales contributed $2.8 billion full year 2020
Veklury sales contributed $5.6 billion full year 2021
Veklury sales $1.5 billion first quarter of 2022.
Veklury sales $445 million second quarter of 2022.
Veklury sales $925 million third quarter of 2022.

 

Very interesting!  

[Daniel Cooper]

Following Mind's link above led to https://dailyclout.i...ing-remdesivir/

 

Why Are Hospitals Still Using Remdesivir?

 

From page 1 of comments:

 

Veklury sales contributed $2.8 billion full year 2020
Veklury sales contributed $5.6 billion full year 2021
Veklury sales $1.5 billion first quarter of 2022.
Veklury sales $445 million second quarter of 2022.
Veklury sales $925 million third quarter of 2022.

 

Very interesting!  

 

 

Looks like they were on track for maybe a $3.4B - $3.9B year on Remdesivir for FY2022. Down from '21 but still a hell of a lot of coin for a drug that really doesn't do much.

 

Wonder how FY2023 has shaped up for them?

[Dorian Grey]

https://www.gilead.c...nancial-results

 

Veklury sales decreased 31% to $636 million for the third quarter of 2023 compared to the same period in 2022, primarily driven by lower rates of COVID-19 related hospitalizations in all regions.

 

Veklury sales generally reflect COVID-19 related rates and severity of infections and hospitalizations, as well as the availability, uptake and effectiveness of vaccinations and alternative treatments for COVID-19.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Alternative treatments???  Oh, must mean problematic Paxlovid...  250,000 Courses of Paxlovid Administered Weekly, Pfizer CEO Says at $1,390 per course.

 

Dr Fauci should sue Gilead and Pfizer for a billion dollars each for all he's done for them.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 09 November 2023 - 04:37 PM.

[Mind]

FDA refuses to release documents related to their suppression of Ivermectin, so they are being sued under FOIA.

 

They refuse to release the documents because they are hiding something bad/unethical - that is the only reason.

 

The scandal is NOT that some doctors tried using Ivermectin to help COVID patients. The REAL scandal is that the government health bureaucracies coordinated behind the scenes to silence and destroy the doctors who tried to help COVID patients with Ivermectin.

 

Just a reminder for everyone joining the discussion - Ivermectin is an extremely safe, cheap, nobel-prize winning drug with multiple MOAs for various infectious/other diseases. Up until the COVID panic, it was hailed as a miracle drug and was prescribed billions of times around the world. During the COVID panic, the anti-science US government/FDA decided to go on the warpath against Ivermectin.

[joesixpack]

FDA refuses to release documents related to their suppression of Ivermectin, so they are being sued under FOIA.

 

They refuse to release the documents because they are hiding something bad/unethical - that is the only reason.

 

The scandal is NOT that some doctors tried using Ivermectin to help COVID patients. The REAL scandal is that the government health bureaucracies coordinated behind the scenes to silence and destroy the doctors who tried to help COVID patients with Ivermectin.

 

Just a reminder for everyone joining the discussion - Ivermectin is an extremely safe, cheap, nobel-prize winning drug with multiple MOAs for various infectious/other diseases. Up until the COVID panic, it was hailed as a miracle drug and was prescribed billions of times around the world. During the COVID panic, the anti-science US government/FDA decided to go on the warpath against Ivermectin.

 

Interesting factoid, Africa's countries, those whose populations use Ivermectin either to treat parasites (Onchocerciasis Control AKA River Blindness) or prophylactically, had a lower mortality, and lower number of Covid 19 infections. Ivermectin Works. 

 

A study is here: https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/33795896/. There are also discussions regarding the use of HCQ in countries with high malaria exposure getting similar results. Hard to find studies on this subject, because of the cancel campaign waged against anyone that dared to bring up the subject.

 

It worked for me when I had Covid. Along with Hydoxychloriquine, it is part of the FLCCC treatment protocol.

 

I suspect the documents being sought, indicate that the FDA participated in an effort to ban the drug, because an EUA cannot be granted to an experimental vaccine, or an experimental treatment (paxlovid), when an existing FDA approved drug is an effective treatment for the disease in question (Covid 19).

 

 

Edited by joesixpack, 15 December 2023 - 01:21 AM.

[Hip]

Ivermectin is an extremely safe, cheap, nobel-prize winning drug with multiple MOAs for various infectious/other diseases. Up until the COVID panic, it was hailed as a miracle drug and was prescribed billions of times around the world. During the COVID panic, the anti-science US government/FDA decided to go on the warpath against Ivermectin.

 

It makes me laugh the way the ivermectin evangelists hype up this treatment, using weasel words like "miracle" drug.  

 

This phrasing reminds me of those orthomolecular nutcases, who think vitamin C is the saviour of all of mankind, and that vit C can cure any disease including cancer. When you chat to one of these orthomolecular head cases, they are like religious extremists who believe vitamin C is some sacred substance!

 

The lack of scientific rationality in the ivermectin phrasing is obvious. Like the phrase "prescribed billions of times around the world": completely non-rational. The fact that a drug is often prescribed is no guarantee it will work for the application you have in mind. 

[Hip]

I assume, then, that the individuals who gave me red ratings in my post above actually believe in all the orthomolecular nonsense, which just shows how incredibly stupid they are. Anyone who could be fooled by that orthomolecular crap really desperately needs a brain transplant.

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

I assume, then, that the individuals who gave me red ratings in my post above actually believe in all the orthomolecular nonsense, which just shows how incredibly stupid they are. Anyone who could be fooled by that orthomolecular crap really desperately needs a brain transplant.

 

I guess I'll have to be blunt because subtle apparently doesn't work.

 

You want to have fewer red ratings - stop acting like an ass. I've had to delete several of your posts today because of their insulting attitudes.

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 December 2023 - 04:20 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Manners make the man / Manners maketh man

 

Today this expression broadly means that your mannerisms and characteristics make you who you are, that is to say people are judged by their manners and conduct. But in its earliest use, as manners maketh man, it likely had a broader meaning--that manners make us human - that politeness and etiquette are what prevent us from falling into savagery.

 

The Random House Dictionary of America's Popular Proverbs and Sayings traces manners maketh man to the middle of the 14th century but without citing a specific reference. The earliest reference BookBrowse could find was in the work of William Horman who was headmaster of Eton and then Winchester in the late 15th century. Winchester College still retains "manners makyth man" as its motto, as does New College, Oxford, both of which were founded by William of Wykeham, Bishop of Winchester, in the 14th century.

 

------------------------

 

All alone or in twos, the ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall

Some hand in hand, some gather together in bands
The bleeding hearts and the artists make their stand
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall

(Roger Waters)

[Hip]

I guess I'll have to be blunt because subtle apparently doesn't work.
 
You want to have fewer red ratings - stop acting like an ass. I've had to delete several of your posts today because of their insulting attitudes.

 
My pointing out that hyperbole is not the language of science (but is the language of advertisers and marketers who want to sell you things) should not be hammered with lots of red ratings. I am trying to point out that science deals with facts, not hyperbole. That's not a statement which should be rebuked. 
 
I gave the orthomolecular people as an example of hyperbole, because these people worship vitamin C as if it were a God. To a lesser degree, we see the same worship with ivermectin: lots of hyperbolic statements about ivermectin being the saviour of mankind, whereas ivermectin COVID studies have been equivocal. I suspect ivermectin does help reduce death from COVID to an extent, but not to the degree that all the ivermectin hyperbole would have you believe.

 

Only on these unscientific long COVID threads would you be rebuked for standing up for science over hyperbole. These threads are a magnet for the wrong sort of people. This is not the just the case on Longecity, but I have observed it in many other online spaces. COVID discussions draw in the anarchists, the anti-establishment rebels, the conspiracy theorists, and so forth. 

Edited by Hip, 18 December 2023 - 08:33 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

 
My pointing out that hyperbole is not the language of science (but is the language of advertisers and marketers who want to sell you things) should not be hammered with lots of red ratings. I am trying to point out that science deals with facts, not hyperbole. That's not a statement which should be rebuked. 
 
I gave the orthomolecular people as an example of hyperbole, because these people worship vitamin C as if it were a God. To a lesser degree, we see the same worship with ivermectin: lots of hyperbolic statements about ivermectin being the saviour of mankind, whereas ivermectin COVID studies have been equivocal. I suspect ivermectin does help reduce death from COVID to an extent, but not to the degree that all the ivermectin hyperbole would have you believe.

 

Only on these unscientific long COVID threads would you be rebuked for standing up for science over hyperbole. These threads are a magnet for the wrong sort of people. This is not the just the case on Longecity, but I have observed it in many other online spaces. COVID discussions draw in the anarchists, the anti-establishment rebels, the conspiracy theorists, and so forth. 

 

And neither is your constantly insulting attitude (people need a "brain transplant") the language of science.

 

I just don't get it. You're a smart man. You routinely insult other members - who have the ability to rate your posts - yet you are incredulous that you also routinely get "red ratings" and complain about them.

 

I suggest you do one or the other:

 

a.) Knock off the insulting attitude towards other members.

 

or 

 

b.) Accept that those members will downvote your posts and quit complaining about them.

 

To be insulting and shocked at the down votes is to say the least illogical.

 

If I get to vote on your decision I'm voting for "a" as it keeps you on the right of the User Agreement.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 December 2023 - 09:29 PM.

[Hip]

And neither is your constantly insulting attitude (people needs a "brain transplant") the language of science.

 

I would say that depends on the context. 

 

I've seen on various other forums that insults (subtle and sometimes not so subtle) have been an effective means of repelling the unscientific. 

 

You know how it is: you have a forum on which a smart group of scientifically-minded individuals are chatting. Then some numbskull joins the forum, and injects a lot of nonsense. Unfortunately you cannot repel such people using reasoned scientific argument, as science is a language they don't really understand. But you may be able to repel them by deploying strategic insults. 

 

It seems though that trying to save Longecity from the tyranny of the unscientific is a hard battle to fight. 

[Daniel Cooper]

 

It seems though that trying to save Longecity from the tyranny of the unscientific is a hard battle to fight. 

 

So you're the hero that Longecity deserves, but not the hero that it needs? Longecity's dark knight?

 

[Hip]

So you're the hero that Longecity deserves, but not the hero that it needs? Longecity's dark knight?

 

I would not call it heroics: I am just a grumpy old git who gets irritated by low scientific standards!

[Mind]

Here you can see the results of the principle trial. The use of ivermectin improved every metric related to COVID illness and long COVID (statistically significant). Even though the trial showed benefits across the board, the authors recommend against using Ivermectin. What the heck is going on? Makes no sense.

 

Even some of the trials of Ivermectin that failed to show statistically significant results, DID show signals of benefit (documented earlier in this thread).

 

The unscientific attack on Ivermectin during the COVID panic was unbelievable. It is an extremely safe, cheap, widely available drug and could have helped millions of people. People who don't understand science and had a political axe to grind, probably caused a lot of unnecessary deaths.

[Hip]

 

People who don't understand science and had a political axe to grind, probably caused a lot of unnecessary deaths.

 

If you are talking about the antivaxers, yes I agree.