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c60mct Photostability & Thermostability Experiments

c60oo carbon 60 olive oil mct

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#1 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 22 August 2021 - 12:01 PM


I'm worried that the C60 community is throwing the baby out with the bathwater since Baati was "debunked" by Ichor.

 

Granted, Ichor appears to have proven that c60oo can, at least in some formulations, suffer from photoinstability, potentially resulting in the formation of toxic compounds such as the black gunk that they were able to produce in their study using laboratory lighting. However, to my knowledge, there is no evidence as yet that Turnbuckle's c60mct suffers from the same. I've suggested that photostability and thermostability experiments be performed in a lab such as Ichor's. Absent any such effort, though, and because this might literally be a matter of life and death for me as a long term consumer of c60mct, I've undertaken a crude photostability experiment to determine the extent to which Ichor's c60oo results translate to c60mct. (As I've said elsewhere, I suspect that the discrepency between Ichor and Baati is due to rampant fraud in the olive oil industry, but this is beside the point because we're talking about MCT (medium-chain triglyceride) oil here.)

I'm sharing the results of my first experiment in the hopes that others will chime in with more data from better designed and executed experiments.

But let me skip directly to the result: nothing happened insofar as I was able to tell. No black gunk, no weird oil sheen, no odor, no opacity changes, no viscosity changes, no difference in chromatographic behavior, and no color differences. Of course, I can't see changes that require anything more than my own senses. Now here's what I did:

1. I put purple c60mct into 2 glasses, forming a layer of approximately 2 mm thickness on the flat bottom of each glass.

2. The glasses were positioned next to each other on a clean white table.

3. An LED light was placed about 40 cm above one of the glasses. It was 600 lumens and 3000K. Characteristically, this would be warm white, which looks yellowish because it contains more red than blue. (Ichor used a bluer and more intense source. I'll do that in the next experiment. I just wanted to know if c60mct is somehow hopelessly photounstable.)

4. I shielded the other glass such that it received only ambient light. It was probably getting on the order of 1% as much power, and definitely not more than 10%.

5. I left them in an isolated room whose temperature was always at least 26C (based on a thermometer reading) throughout the course of the experiment.

6. I came back after 2 hours to discover... nothing had changed.

 

7. Just to make sure, I dumped out each glass onto a piece of white paper in a crude approximation of chromatography. I couldn't discern any meaningful difference between the 2 oil blobs as they diffused across and into the paper.

 

So this at least suggests that it's possible to protect c60mct from lab lighting during prep and periodic dispensing. After all, it's much easier to destroy something by accident than preserve it. I'd like to know how far we can push this, both photometrically and thermally. Perhaps we could even experiment with fat-soluable antioxidants such as gamma tocopherol and astaxanthin. (It's weird to think of "third party" antioxidants somehow protecting c60mct itself, but anyway I'm just putting the idea out there, should it prove to be helpful.)

Please help add to the data if you have c60mct! (If you can't make your own, then I believe you can buy it online. Check Amazon and eBay. The potential benefits of C60 oils are simply too compelling to ignore just because of Ichor's impressive but narrowly scoped experiment. If you have a decent lab setup, which I don't, then please consider participating, even if you don't personally take c60mct. It could do a lot of good for the community, regardless of the result.)
 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 22 August 2021 - 12:06 PM.

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#2 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 23 August 2021 - 07:54 AM

I redid the experiment today. I have photos on my harddrive but I'm not sure where I can host them for free and anonymously. (There doesn't seem to be any way to embed them here.) Let me know if you have any recommendations. Unfortunately, I can't email them to anyone either because Brother Google has locked me out of my email account. That also means I can't even create a photo hosting account. Anyways I'm sure we can figure something out if there's a desire.

 

This time, I used a 14W Sylvania PAR38 daylight (probably 5000K, not sure) LED flood light perched about 13 cm away from the "light" (L) sample while the dark ("D") sample was almost completely shielded from illumination by a paper envelope, despite sitting only about 10 cm away. It was literally painful to do the experiment under such illumination, necessitating some retinal infrared after the fact. There's no way I could possibly work under such conditions. Nor do I think anyone would expose their c60mct to so much light over the course of months of fridge openings. You would only do this if you were attempting to destroy your c60mct, which I most definitely was.

 

I kept the AC on 26C the whole time, so temperature started at 25.8C and ended at 26.4C.

 

I put "L" and "D" on the bottom of the 2 glasses this time, so I couldn't possibly confuse them. I shot photos of them before and after by resting my phone on the rim of each glass and shooting in the dark with the flash enabled. This forces the camera to turn on the flash, focus the image, and then shoot. This eliminates a lot of questions around shooting angle and ambient light. There is still some variability based on exactly where the flash hits the oil and what the camera decides to do with exposure time. (I suppose I could fix the exposure time for even more control.)

 

Total running time was 2 hours and 18 minutes, during which the setup was isolated with me outside. I ended with the a repeat of my crude chromatography study using a white piece of paper, as well.

 

Result: nothingburger. Literally I could not discern any difference between the samples after the fact. I even swapped their positions back and forth and took photos of them next to each other. They look the same, but for slightly more oil in one than the other due to my sloppy measurement.

 

Anyone who thinks the Ichor results translate to c60oo needs to prove it under plausible conditions of preparation, storage, and consumption. While I'm sure I could destroy the oil under UV, nobody in their right mind would allow it be exposed to stray light from open windows, bug zappers, UV sterilizers, tanning beds, etc.

 

Granted, I haven't push the thermal limits just yet, and one could of course rerun my experiment for, say, an entire day. Experiments, data, questions, and comments are all welcome.

 


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#3 timedilation

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Posted 23 August 2021 - 01:52 PM

Wow, this was really well done!  Are there any other known differences between C60/MCT and C60EVOO?  Maybe in 5 years some mouse experiments will be run with C60MCT oil and we can find out...

 

 

If you can't make your own, then I believe you can buy it online. Check Amazon and eBay.

 

That may be true, but out of an abundance of caution, I imagine most people would still want a C60MCT product that is made using the Baati process.  Even if the MCT formulation is far less photosensitive, why risk it?  However, that is probably much harder to come by.



#4 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 12:35 AM

Wow, this was really well done!  Are there any other known differences between C60/MCT and C60EVOO?  Maybe in 5 years some mouse experiments will be run with C60MCT oil and we can find out...

 

 

That may be true, but out of an abundance of caution, I imagine most people would still want a C60MCT product that is made using the Baati process.  Even if the MCT formulation is far less photosensitive, why risk it?  However, that is probably much harder to come by.

 

I completely agree, which is why I make my own. I just meant that third party c60mct would be good enough for the purposes of evaluating photostability and thermostability, for anyone who is considering consumption but wants to gather more experimental data first.

 

But as I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't filter, which may account for my tiny adrenal cysts on MRI, which are consistent with similar features seen in rodents fed large quantities of C60 powder. By way of compensation, though, I now stir for 28 days so as to minimize undissolved C60. I also discard the bottle as soon as I see too much of it flowing onto the dosing spoon. I'd probably do better to filter, but I'm just not set up for it.


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 24 August 2021 - 12:38 AM.


#5 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 02:08 PM

Wow, this was really well done!  Are there any other known differences between C60/MCT and C60EVOO?  Maybe in 5 years some mouse experiments will be run with C60MCT oil and we can find out...

 

Well, thanks, and sorry I neglected to respond to this point. Yes, there are huge differences between the two in terms of carbon chain length (read: tendency toward rancidity), supply chain integrity (read: agro mafia in the case of olive oil), polyphenol content (none in the case of MCT), and even just breadth of definition (as though anyone knows what "olive oil" actually means).

 

Just a pedantic note: I think acronyms with small letters look stupid, but the reason it's "c60oo" and not "C60OO" is because we don't want to confuse "O" and "0". Hence "c60mct".

 

But yeah, we sorely need c60mct experiments on lifespan and healthspan. Everyone here can help by referencing this thread on other longevity forums. Baati may have been a sloppy genius; the jury is still out. Sitting here wondering about it isn't the answer; science is, but I can pretty much guarantee you that no scientist in the field is yet aware of the stark differences between these C60 oils because if they were, someone would be chasing the social capital -- if not monetary capital -- to be gained by characterizing them. For now, I think it's in everyone's interest that we draw attention to this dichotomy and unfinished science.


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#6 Kentavr

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Posted 31 August 2021 - 10:30 AM

You can take a halogen lamp to try and destroy the oil with UV light. A halogen lamp generates UV light.


Edited by Kentavr, 31 August 2021 - 10:33 AM.

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#7 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 31 August 2021 - 11:36 PM

You can take a halogen lamp to try and destroy the oil with UV light. A halogen lamp generates UV light.

 

Correct, which is why I wrote "While I'm sure I could destroy the oil under UV, nobody in their right mind would allow it be exposed to stray light from open windows, bug zappers, UV sterilizers, tanning beds, etc." above. If I recall, it was proven in 1996 that fullerenes are unstable under UV illumination.

 

By the way, that's why halogen lamps usually feature a thick glass plate -- to block the UV. Removing that plate without wearing hefty eye protection is a bad idea.

 

The point isn't to destroy the oil by any means possible. It's to demonstrate that it is (not) robust against inadvertent destruction under the most stressful but plausible manufacturing, refrigeration, or consumption conditions.


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