122 replies to this topic

[Gal220]

A recent post by Dr. Kory highlights why you want to knock it out early, most hospitals arent properly treating it - Link

 

Besides hand washing, one of the simple things really overlooked by our health agencies is gargling H202 or recently studied betadine(50:10 in this video) .  If we are able to wipe out covid, I think this will be why.

 

New points

-From the previous video(49:35), McCullough thinks HCQ has the edge on Ivermectin in early treatment, not sure it matters, I would take both.  Video is a good summary of things to this point.

-Early treatment of Delta interviews.  Bottom interview with Urso, it is his observation that maintaining high D levels gives longer lasting immunity - video

-Another McCullough interview, mostly same info as other videos, but interview doctor mentions hyperbaric oxygen treatments for long covid - video

 

 

From the previous thread(I am sure I am leaving out parts if someone wants to add some info)

 

Many of the best natural anti-virals are listed on this chart (page down 3 times) - Link

EGCG, Curcumin, Apigean, Beta Glucans, Quercetin

 

Not mentioned is Mir2911(honesuckle extract), good studies on it, but doesnt appear available for purchase

Another good reference is this German concoction - https://www.vedicina...t/vedicinals-9/

Licorice extract(not good long term or if high blood pressure), Black cumin seed, Olive leaf - Link

 

Fluvoxamine - part of FLCCC early prevention protocol

Budesonide - Link

 

 

Quercetin and prions - Link

Long Covid protocol - Link

How to get Ivermectin - Link

 

https://twitter.com/covid19crusher is tracking data as it comes in.

 

 

Personally I think H202 gargle, Multivitamin, EGCG/curcumin(morning), Quercetin/bromelain(30 minutes before dinner) is good enough for prevention.  Sleep, moderate exercise, and limiting sugar/bread also helpful.

If symptoms - HCQ/IVM, aspirin/natto , NAC, and more Vit C.

Edited by Gal220, 28 August 2021 - 07:16 AM.

[pamojja]

Not mentioned is Mir2911(honesuckle extract), good studies on it, but doesnt appear available for purchase

 
Honeysuckle extract should be available from TCM suppliers, like for example here: https://healthylicio...t?q=honeysuckle
 
This 200mg Andrographs extract (per capusle) I actually use also contains 50mg of a propietary blend with 3 herbs, including honeysuckle extract: https://www.iherb.co...n-capsules/4235
 

Another good reference is this German concoction - https://www.vedicina...t/vedicinals-9/

 
But really only for reference, since from its describtion its questionable quality and thereby totally overpriced:
 

Daily dose approximately contains:
 
1052 mg Curcuma longa L. - Turmeric extract
889 mg Camella sinensis - Tea extract
737 mg Rutin
667 mg Citrus reticulata Blanc. - Mandarin
500 mg Glycyrrhiza glabra - Liqorice extract (as Glycyrrhizin 20%)
353 mg Scutallaria baicalensis - Chinese skullcap (as 50% Baicalin)
200 mg Arachis hypoaea - Peanut (as Luteolin 98%)
100 mg Quercetin Powder
67 mg Sodium
15 mg Black pepper extract (as Piperine)
 
Other:
 
Purified water
Sweetener (INS 420)
Honey
Lubricant (INS 1503)
Acitidy Regulators (INS 330)
Thickening Agent (INS 466)
Preservative (INS 211)
Thickening Agent (INS 415)
Preservatives (INS 119 & INS 386)
Preservative (INS 417)

 
Too much unhealthy additives - half of its plant extracts not standardized on anything - a whooping 98% of luteolin out of peanuts without extractions remains a mystery, I would love to know (peanut hull does contain it) - Rutin and Quercetin source plant not disclosed.
 

From the previous thread (I am sure I am leaving out parts if someone wants to add some info)

 

Many of the best natural anti-virals are listed on this chart (page down 3 times) - Link

 

Previous thread: https://www.longecit...ents-therapies/

 

In order of decreasing docking ability:

 

Table : Molecular docking values of phytochemicals against target protein macromolecules

Phytochemicals

EGCG
Curcumin
Apigenin
Beta Glucan
Myricetin
Quercetin
Piperine
Genistein
Diadzein
Ferulic acid
Alliin
Lipoic acid
Resveratrol
Glucosamine
Gingerol-[6]
Sulforaphane
Allicin
PCB
Remdesvir
Chloroquine

 

Licorice extract(not good long term or if high blood pressure), Black cumin seed, Olive leaf - Link

 

Important to check blood pressure and serum potassium levels with Licorice extract intake. Personally used 330 mg of Licorice powder and 210 mg of Licorice extract in average per day for the last 9 years condinously, without any bad effects. Read somewhere above 100 mg Glycyrrhizin shouldn't be taken.

Edited by pamojja, 28 August 2021 - 10:32 AM.

[Gal220]

Black Cumin Seed / Nigella sativa / Thymoquinone(active ingredient) added to https://c19early.com , https:// https://c19ns.com/

 

I like using EGCG and Quercetin since both help with zinc ionophores. But maybe worth subbing one of them out.  There is this combo product from LEF , Curcumin + Black Seed

 

For EGCG, using half of decaf pill from Life Extension(Stomach couldnt handle full pill) + Life Entensions Curcumin in the morning

2 pills(500mg) of Dr Best Quercetin/Bromlain in the evening

 

 

[lancebr]

Black Cumin Seed / Nigella sativa / Thymoquinone(active ingredient) added to https://c19early.com , https:// https://c19ns.com/

 

 

So for the Black Cumin Seeds  studies does this sound like the correct dosages:

 

One study said: "The studied participants included patients which received standard care treatment as

a control group (CON) , while the (BS) group were patients received black seeds at a 40 mg/kg dose orally

once daily for 14 days plus standard protocol of treatment."

 

So if my math is correct then for an average 130 lb person it would be 130lbs=59kg...so that would be 2,360mg per day.

 

Another study said: "The HNS group received honey (1 gm) plus encapsulated Nigella sativa seeds (80 mg) per kg

body weight orally in 2-3 divided doses daily for up-to 13 days while the control group received placebo (empty capsules)."

 

So with that study for a 130lb person it would be 4,720mg per day.

 

Are those considered extremely high doses for black cumin seed...and is there any concern about doses that high?

 

Also, I didn't read all the studies in their entirety, but for people who know more about these types of medical studies

are they considered well done studies?

[Gal220]

So for the Black Cumin Seeds  studies does this sound like the correct dosages:

 

One study said: "The studied participants included patients which received standard care treatment as

a control group (CON) , while the (BS) group were patients received black seeds at a 40 mg/kg dose orally

once daily for 14 days plus standard protocol of treatment."

 

So if my math is correct then for an average 130 lb person it would be 130lbs=59kg...so that would be 2,360mg per day.

I havent found a prevention dosage yet, most capsules are 500mg.   Too bad its also usually administered with honey.

 

There is also an issue with absorption, but havent seen the nano tech version sold.

[pamojja]

So with that study for a 130lb person it would be 4,720mg per day.

 

Also, I didn't read all the studies in their entirety, but for people who know more about these types of medical studies are they considered well done studies?

 

Seems all 3 trials mentioned are not peer-reviewed yet. Therefore to know one would have to read their every detail to evaluate. The study you mention for this dose, and I already looked at, wasn't well done in my eyes, because the NS was given with lots of honey (~50 g/d) in capsules), while the placebo in empty capsules, too easy recogniseable as placebo in comparison.

 

But then it would still show the power of a good placebo effect against covid. Understandably, due to the huge mass-hysteria amplifcation effects, of this relatively harmless virus.

 

So with that study for a 130lb person it would be 4,720mg per day.

 

Are those considered extremely high doses for black cumin seed...and is there any concern about doses that high?

 

 See https://examine.com/...nigella-sativa/

 

15Safety and Toxicology

 

15.1General

 

Isolated thymoquinone appears to be relatively safe, with an oral LD₅₀ of 794.3mg/kg in rats and 870.9mg/kg in mice; approximately 100-150 times higher than its therapeutic level.^[129]

 

15.2Case Studies

 

There have been some isolated cases of topical usage of nigella sativa causing contact dermatitis, suggesting that it is possible to be allergic to the seed oil.^[8]

 

Further:

 

The essential oil component (0.4-2.5% of the seeds by weight^[13] although most sources are in the more modest end of this range at 0.4-0.45%^[26][27]) includes:

• Thymoquinone at 27.8-57.0% of the essential oil^[28][13] yet only somewhere between 0.05%^[29] and 0.13-0.17%^[13] of the oil overall; also, the dimer known as dithymoquinone (Nigellone)^[30] which is not quantifiable in the oil^[29] and is instead reliant on conversion in the body

 

The known active Thymoquinone at only about 0.05% by weight seems sufficently safe with the plain seeds. About dosage they say:

 

Supplementation of the seeds of nigella sativa usually use the basic seed extract (a crushed powder of the seeds with no further processing or concentration) or the seed oil, both of which do not require a large degree of processing as the medicinal dosage is close to the raw product's natural state.

 

While 1 gram of the seed tends to always underperform relative to 2-3 grams, there is not sufficient evidence to suggest which of those two higher doses is 'better' and thus something within that range is recommended.

 

As the seeds are about a quarter to one third fatty acids (ie. the seed oil) then supplementation of any black seed oil product would be 3-4 times lower than the aforementioned range (giving a recommended range of 250-1,000 mg daily).

 

Since there wont be any long term studies, except maybe being used for a few thousand years safely, again my anecdotal experience:

 

About 2.5g of black seed oil (up to 5g for a whole year) and about 2.3g of the milled seeds (up to 4g for a whole year) in average daily during the last 7-8 years didn't cause any adverse effects for me. (But experienced remission of a walking disability, along with comprehensive supplementation and lifestyle changes)
 

Of course, never go by anyone's word on the internet. Do as I do with experimental protocols, and regularly monitor any change by blood-tests and any other means available.

 

Edited by pamojja, 30 August 2021 - 09:03 AM.

[lancebr]

Thanks everyone for the information.

 

I ran across this video today by Dr. Syed and he seems to really think the Black Seed is a good thing.

 

[pamojja]

Licorice extract(not good long term or if high blood pressure), Black cumin seed, Olive leaf - Link

Further mentioned at that link:

 

The top three most effective plants for treating covid-19 included licorice root, (Glycyrrhiza glabra) chicory root, (Cichorium intybus) and hibiscus flowers (Hibiscus sabdariffa). Licorice root has a history of effectiveness against multiple viruses and pathogenic strains.

 

..The individual compounds with the greatest anti-inflammatory enrichment included quercetin, ursolic acid, kaempferol, isorhamnetin, luteolin, glycerrhizin, and apigenin.

 

Other powerful antiviral plants include olive leaf (Olea europaea), white horehound (Marrubium vulgare), black cumin seed (Nigella sativa), garden cress (Lepidium sativum), Judean wormwood (Artemisia Judaica), guava (Psidium guajava), chrysanthemum ( Glebionis coronaria), and Maryam’s flower (Anastatica). These plants contain all the correct compounds that target all three antiviral agents.

 

Plants that had successful results against two of the viral enzymes included: Hairy willow herb (Epilobium hirsutum), chickpea (Cicer arietinum), and Kantarioun (Centaurea incana). Plants that had action against two of the viral proteins included: Roselle (Hibiscus sabdariffa), German chamomile (Matricaria chamomilla), celery (Apium graveolens), and alfalfa (Medicago sativa).

 

[geo12the]

Thanks everyone for the information.

 

I ran across this video today by Dr. Syed and he seems to really think the Black Seed is a good thing.

 

 

I probably need to stop reading this forum. Some quack says Black Seeds are good for COVID so it must be true? 

 

Seems to me a lot of folks here are seduced by the Dr. Fox effect. This was an interesting experiment done in 1970 where two speakers gave lectures to a classroom of MDs and PhDs on an nonsense topic. The topic was, "Mathematical Game Theory as Applied to Physician Education" which is gibberish. When the lecturers presented the material in an engaging, expressive, and enthusiastic manner the audience believed it. Sadly I feel like we have evolved into a Ted talk society: You have charlatans spewing BS in a confident  manner and they are believed. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.../Dr._Fox_effect

[Gal220]

I probably need to stop reading this forum. Some quack says Black Seeds are good for COVID so it must be true? 

 

He is just following the data as it starts to roll in, I woudnt believe it simply b/c this guy says so - https://c19ns.com/

[Gal220]

Interesting article on zinc ascorbate as the best ionophore, but dont really find anyone else supporting it- link

 

 

 

[Gal220]

Recent research on EGCG, Aug 30 2021 - Link

We now demonstrate for the first time that both GTB and EGCG could significantly inhibit, in a dose-dependent manner, the infectivity mediated by mutant S proteins of the newly emerged SARS-CoV-2 variants (UK-B.1.1.7, SA-B.1.351, and CA-B.1.429). This finding is clinically important, as SARS-CoV-2 frequently undergoes mutations, especially within its spike protein.

 

Old article, Chris Masterjohn does not think EGCG or Quercetin are effective ionophores (EGCG is much better than Quercetin).  Article in the OP show both EGCG and Quercetin have high binding affinity to covid, so maybe that is all there is to their anti-viral activity.

So far to show a zinc ionophore effect of these molecules we need two things:

• 57 times as much EGCG or 100 times as much quercetin as achievable with oral supplements.
• At least >3 times the total zinc found in plasma, and possibly >600 times the ionic zinc found in plasma.

 

From this article

researchers compared the inhibitory potential of the zinc complexes: zinc acetate, zinc glycinate, and zinc gluconate. Except for zinc acetate, the others failed to produce any antiviral effects in the cell culture experiments .... They observed a >2-fold viral inhibition in the presence of quercetin when zinc acetate with quercetin (at 1:2 molar ratio) was tested for antiviral SARS-CoV-2 activity in infected Vero E6 cells.

This study supports and recommends a combination of zinc salt, which provides ionic zinc, with ionophores, to possibly have a better clinical outcome in COVID-19 therapy.

Because of the short half-life (~10s) of the Mpro-zn2+ complex, fast association and dissociation rates, and water-soluble nature of zinc acetate observed in this study, the researchers suggested that constant doses of zinc-ionophore combination may be required for effective inhibition of SARS-CoV-2 Mpro.

 

Masterjohn didnt talk about zinc types, maybe he already assumed acetate.  Either way, zinc type is important.

Edited by Gal220, 04 September 2021 - 01:09 AM.

[Gal220]

zinc ascorbate - link1, link2

zinc acetate - lozenges appear to use this form.

Many ionic zinc products which should also work, sold with a dropper dispenser.

 

Not sure the ionophore is giving much as Masterjohn mentions, but if it is, my supplement doesnt use a zinc salt derivitive.

Something to think about - "The European Food Safety Authority evaluated that zinc ascorbate can be assumed to be dissociated in the stomach, maybe overcome by taking on an empty stomach with glass of water"

 

 

1st post in the comments of the 2nd link was good, too bad we didnt get this from Fauci

 

"zinc has been shown in studies to coat the cell receptors in your throat—receptors which cold viruses need to attach to. When zinc coats that receptor, the virus can’t attach to new cells and (at least in me) the progress of a cold will stop. As someone with a weak immune system, zinc ascorbate is part of my arsenal of products to prevent or suppress colds, flus, and other viruses.

HOWEVER—and this is the catch—you can’t swallow this capsule while and have it work. It must physically coat the cell receptors in your throat. That means you need to open the capsule and pour it into a small amount of water in a cup, swirl the cup around to get it to dissolve as much as it reasonably can, and then gargle it in your throat. I find that one capsule works for two treatments and I need to take those treatments 8 to 12 hours apart."

 

 

Im sure the benefits of EGCG are much better if you drink green tea or gargle it before swallowing.  I split decaff life extension ECGC capsule in half since a full one too much for my stomach. Certainly not tasty, but doable. 

The first link in the previous post also mentioned gargling EGCG.

 

"Therefore, oral rinsing and gargling with GTB should be safe and well suitable for pre- and postexposure prophylaxis against SARS-CoV-2....

Because nasal and oropharyngeal mucosa are the primary sites for the initial infection of SARS-CoV-2, protecting these areas is crucial for preventing the viral transmission/dissemination, and development of COVID-19"

 

This is what our health agencies should have been telling us along with hand washing.  

 

Any thoughts on which is better, gargling 3% H202 or EGCG(small study)?  Would they both kill your good bacteria in the mouth?  I would stick to H202 for nasal, but to each their own.

[Gal220]

As mentioned in the OP, betadine looks really good.  See comments from covid19crusher's post

 

 

However hated reading this, doctors here were using H202 nebulization early as well, were shut down.  Seems like this pandemic could have been stopped several times..

 

As a side note, some British scientists had suggested the promising betadine track as early as... March 2020... Unfortunately, that went nowhere.

 

Edited by Gal220, 05 September 2021 - 04:55 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Lactoferrin paper gets published!  

 

https://www.pnas.org.../36/e2105815118

 

Morphological cell profiling of SARS-CoV-2 infection identifies drug repurposing candidates for COVID-19

 

To identify compounds with antiviral activity against SARS-CoV-2, we tested a library of 1,425 FDA-approved compounds and rationally included clinical candidates 

 

Notably, we discovered that lactoferrin, a glycoprotein found in secretory fluids including mammalian milk, inhibits SARS-CoV-2 infection in the nanomolar range in all cell models with multiple modes of action, including blockage of virus attachment to cellular heparan sulfate and enhancement of interferon responses. Given its safety profile, lactoferrin is a readily translatable therapeutic option for the management of COVID-19.

[lancebr]

Lactoferrin paper gets published!  

 

https://www.pnas.org.../36/e2105815118

 

Morphological cell profiling of SARS-CoV-2 infection identifies drug repurposing candidates for COVID-19

 

To identify compounds with antiviral activity against SARS-CoV-2, we tested a library of 1,425 FDA-approved compounds and rationally included clinical candidates 

 

Notably, we discovered that lactoferrin, a glycoprotein found in secretory fluids including mammalian milk, inhibits SARS-CoV-2 infection in the nanomolar range in all cell models with multiple modes of action, including blockage of virus attachment to cellular heparan sulfate and enhancement of interferon responses. Given its safety profile, lactoferrin is a readily translatable therapeutic option for the management of COVID-19.

 

So what is the optimal dosages for both prophylactic to prevent getting covid or for treatment if have covid?

 

Are there any issues with absorption like there is with quercetin?

 

 

.

Edited by lancebr, 05 September 2021 - 05:58 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

So what is the optimal dosages for both prophylactic to prevent getting covid or for treatment if have covid?

 

Are there any issues with absorption like there is with quercetin?

 

 

.

 

My Life Extension Lactoferrin caps are 300mg.  Directions say to take 1/day with or without food.  

 

I take mine empty stomach, with plain water.  

 

Don't know what the doses are for COVID prophylaxis or treatment, but I got a wicked anal itch taking 1/day for a couple of weeks once.  I typically take my lactoferrin for just a week after donating blood for iron chelation.  Wouldn't want to take more than this.  We'll have to do some digging to see if this might be an effective therapeutic dose.  

 

I noticed they excluded hydroxychloroquine, saying: "The remaining compounds either lacked efficacy, exhibited cytotoxicity (e.g., digoxin), or were efficacious only at concentrations above 1 µM (e.g., hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine) and were thus not prioritized for follow-up."

 

Does this mean a 1 uM concentration is sufficient for lactoferrin?  Don't know how to determine the dosing, but it appears they excluded therapeutics that would require a mega-dose, so perhaps normal dosing is sufficient.  

 

Interesting that out of 1425 potential therapeutics their computer spit out, lactoferrin appears to be at the top of the list for effectiveness at normal dosage.  

[Gal220]

Covid19crusher(as you can see from his feed, very informed) favors budnesonide as a treatment, wonders why not more prescriptions - link

 

FLCCC goes with similiar products for prevention

 

Antiviral mouthwash: Gargle 3 x daily (do not swallow; must contain chlorhexidine, povidone-iodine, or cetylpyridinium chloride). Iodine nasal spray/drops: Use 1% povidone-iodine commercial product as per instructions 2–3 x daily. If 1%-product not available, must first dilute the more widely available 10%-solution4 and apply 4–5 drops to each nostril every 4 hours. (No more than 5 days in pregnancy.)

 

 

Hopefully the nasal/gargle information gets out, as Covid19Crusher says, biggest problem is getting people aware of treatments.

Edited by Gal220, 06 September 2021 - 02:44 AM.

[geo12the]

Covid19crusher(as you can see from his feed, very informed) favors budnesonide as a treatment, wonders why not more prescriptions - link

 

FLCCC goes with similiar products for prevention

 

Antiviral mouthwash: Gargle 3 x daily (do not swallow; must contain chlorhexidine, povidone-iodine, or cetylpyridinium chloride). Iodine nasal spray/drops: Use 1% povidone-iodine commercial product as per instructions 2–3 x daily. If 1%-product not available, must first dilute the more widely available 10%-solution4 and apply 4–5 drops to each nostril every 4 hours. (No more than 5 days in pregnancy.)

 

 

Hopefully the nasal/gargle information gets out, as Covid19Crusher says, biggest problem is getting people aware of treatments.

 

If the virus is spread primarily by inhaling it into your lungs I don't think gargling will help much. Nasal rinsing is probably a good idea for washing it out of your sinuses and maybe preventing anosmia symptoms if you do get infected.  

[Gal220]

If the virus is spread primarily by inhaling it into your lungs I don't think gargling will help much. Nasal rinsing is probably a good idea for washing it out of your sinuses and maybe preventing anosmia symptoms if you do get infected.  

I agree that nebulizing diluted H202 is the best treatment, but good results from gargling and nasal 

 

at least thats what the data is saying, check out the chart .  Good to see FLCCC isnt just pushing IVM, but keeping up to date with other treatments.

Edited by Gal220, 06 September 2021 - 05:41 PM.

[Heisok]

FLCCC I-MASK+ Protocol as of 09/01/2021.

 

(Gargle portion: Gargle mouthwash)

2 x daily – gargle (do not swallow) antiseptic mouthwash with cetylpyridinium chloride (e.g. ScopeTM,
ActTM, CrestTM), 1% povidone/iodine solution or ListerineTM with essential oils.)

 

 

 

pdf file attached

 

Home page: https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Attached Files

•  FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-09-01-2021-ENGLISH.pdf   274.02KB   6 downloads

[lancebr]

So between the Budesonide and H202 which one would be the better choice, based upon studies, to nebulize if you did have Covid?

 

 

Can you just use the 3% USP grade Hydrogen Peroxide that you can buy in the pharmacy department or do you have to get the food grade type?

Edited by lancebr, 06 September 2021 - 07:43 PM.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re post # 22

 

Walgreens (a US pharmacy chain) sells a Walgreens branded 3% hydrogen peroxide solution. On the bottle, among other information, it states "Use as a gargle or rinse",

 

Several of the different brands of hydrogen peroxide listed on Amazon, and labeled "USP", say it can be used as a mouth rinse. For example, here is one.

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 06 September 2021 - 09:06 PM.

[Gal220]

So between the Budesonide and H202 which one would be the better choice, based upon studies, to nebulize if you did have Covid?

 

 

Can you just use the 3% USP grade Hydrogen Peroxide that you can buy in the pharmacy department or do you have to get the food grade type?

 

Food grade is widely available online, I would get that for regular nebulization - detailed how to

 

 

I think H202 is much cheaper and just as good, but either one.

 

 

Thanks for that post AD!

[lancebr]

My Life Extension Lactoferrin caps are 300mg.  Directions say to take 1/day with or without food.  

 

I take mine empty stomach, with plain water.  

 

Interesting that out of 1425 potential therapeutics their computer spit out, lactoferrin appears to be at the top of the list for effectiveness at normal dosage.  

 

Re post # 22

 

Walgreens (a US pharmacy chain) sells a Walgreens branded 3% hydrogen peroxide solution. On the bottle, among other information, it states "Use as a gargle or rinse",

 

Several of the different brands of hydrogen peroxide listed on Amazon, and labeled "USP", say it can be used as a mouth rinse. For example, here is one.

 

Food grade is widely available online, I would get that for regular nebulization - detailed how to

 

Thanks for the info everyone. 

 

Looks like Im going to be adding a new supplement to the many Im taking right now....and got to get me a nebulizer

and some H202 to have on hand just in case.

 

 

On a side note I just heard about this Nipah over in India....hoping it doesn't spread any further.

 

https://www.cbsnews....k-india-kerala/

 

https://nypost.com/2...-than-covid-19/

[Oakman]

Probenecid inhibits SARS-CoV-2 replication in vivo and in vitro

 

https://www.nature.c...598-021-97658-w

 

This looks to be something that has real potential, with the pluses of being safe, low side effects, oral dosing, and works in 'humanized hamsters' both in pre and post SARS-COV-2 infection.

 

Abstract

Effective vaccines are slowing the COVID-19 pandemic, but SARS-CoV-2 will likely remain an issue in the future making it important to have therapeutics to treat patients. There are few options for treating patients with COVID-19. We show probenecid potently blocks SARS-CoV-2 replication in mammalian cells and virus replication in a hamster model. Furthermore, we demonstrate that plasma concentrations up to 50-fold higher than the protein binding adjusted IC90 value are achievable for 24 h following a single oral dose. These data support the potential clinical utility of probenecid to control SARS-CoV-2 infection in humans.

 

Edited by Oakman, 12 September 2021 - 01:40 AM.

[lancebr]

 

Probenecid inhibits SARS-CoV-2 replication in vivo and in vitro

 

https://www.nature.c...598-021-97658-w

 

This looks to be something that has real potential, with the pluses of being safe, low side effects, oral dosing, and works in 'humanized hamsters' both in pre and post SARS-COV-2 infection.

 

Abstract

Effective vaccines are slowing the COVID-19 pandemic, but SARS-CoV-2 will likely remain an issue in the future making it important to have therapeutics to treat patients. There are few options for treating patients with COVID-19. We show probenecid potently blocks SARS-CoV-2 replication in mammalian cells and virus replication in a hamster model. Furthermore, we demonstrate that plasma concentrations up to 50-fold higher than the protein binding adjusted IC90 value are achievable for 24 h following a single oral dose. These data support the potential clinical utility of probenecid to control SARS-CoV-2 infection in humans.

 

 

Is there any information as to what would be the effective dose in humans?

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re: post #27

 

 

 

Is there any information as to what would be the effective dose in humans?

 

From the study linked by Oakman in post # 26:

 

"We performed a probenecid pharmacokinetic modeling and simulation study comparing 600 mg twice daily, 900 mg twice daily, or 1800 mg once daily. The model predicted that the plasma concentrations of probenecid would exceed the protein binding adjusted IC90 value at all time points throughout therapy. The doses evaluated by the PK model were below the maximum allowable FDA-approved dose of 2 g/day and should have no substantial side effects."

 

"All doses provided exposures well over the IC90 level at all time points. "

 

So it would seem that 600 mg twice daily (the lowest modeled dosage) had at least a 90% RNA-viral-inhibition effect (IC90) over the study's 20-day simulation. No mention was made in the study of possible tachyphylaxis effects for longer dosing schedules.

 

It may be a good strategy (stratagem?, heh heh) to tell your doctor that your big toe hurts in order to get a prescription for probenecid. If he/she orders a blood test that shows normal levels of uric acid and says no, tell him/her of course the blood shows low levels! Most of the damn uric acid is in the form of sharp, pointed, crystals in my toe wreaking havoc!

[lancebr]

Re: post #27

 

 

From the study linked by Oakman in post # 26:

 

"We performed a probenecid pharmacokinetic modeling and simulation study comparing 600 mg twice daily, 900 mg twice daily, or 1800 mg once daily. The model predicted that the plasma concentrations of probenecid would exceed the protein binding adjusted IC90 value at all time points throughout therapy. The doses evaluated by the PK model were below the maximum allowable FDA-approved dose of 2 g/day and should have no substantial side effects."

 

"All doses provided exposures well over the IC90 level at all time points. "

 

So it would seem that 600 mg twice daily (the lowest modeled dosage) had at least a 90% RNA-viral-inhibition effect (IC90) over the study's 20-day simulation. No mention was made in the study of possible tachyphylaxis effects for longer dosing schedules.

 

It may be a good strategy (stratagem?, heh heh) to tell your doctor that your big toe hurts in order to get a prescription for probenecid. If he/she orders a blood test that shows normal levels of uric acid and says no, tell him/her of course the blood shows low levels! Most of the damn uric acid is in the form of sharp, pointed, crystals in my toe wreaking havoc!

 

So I assume this has not yet been tested in humans...so the question I got is since probenecid is a "uricosuric drug that promotes the

excretion of uric acid in the urine and thus reduces the concentration of uric acid in the blood" would that be a bad thing based upon

the following study that says:

 

"Among patients with COVID-19 requiring hospitalization, low serum levels of uric acid are common and associate with disease severity

and with progression to respiratory failure requiring invasive mechanical ventilation."

 

https://ccforum.biom...054-021-03616-3

 

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re: post #29

 

lancebr,

 

The excretion of uric acid, resulting in low blood-uric-acid levels, in the case of COVID-19, is a result of damage to the kidneys via kidney proximal tubule dysfunction (caused by the SARS CoV-2 virus)--as asserted in the reference you cite. 

 

In other words, low uric acid levels don't cause COVID-19 disease severity, the low levels are a result of disease severity--a reflection of the extent to which the kidneys were damaged by COVID-19. So, the lowering of uric acid levels as a result of taking probenecid is a non-issue.

 

No, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have uric acid levels lowered by a drug with the viral-inhibition effects of probenecid.