11 replies to this topic

[bce]

Hello!!

 

Right now im taking 2.5 mg Zyprexa (Olanzapine) every day.

 

It really helps me sleep, and i feel a bit more collected. Its the lowest dose but im still worried of side effects in the future? Should i toss it? I can do without it, but it almost feels like a life-hack since things are just a little bit dulled out and that can help me in my day to day life too. If ive been off it for a few days i always say "ah what the hell, why not" and then i go on it again...  What do you guys think

 

Thanks!

[YoungSchizo]

In the past I have almost a decade experience with Zyprexa but for schizophrenia thus higher dosages but also been very long on 5mg (that was the lowest in the past) and it's really a lifesaving great drug for sleep, also on a low dose you barely gain weight, almost non. You should be fine with 2.5mg, even in the long run. Some people with schizophrenia are sentenced with high dosages of Zyprexa for the rest of their life.

 

If it really benefits your sleep and even gives other positive therapeutic effects you should be fine on a dose of 2.5mg, that's almost nothing. Zyprexa has been around for 20-25 years (in very large dosages) so it's safe to say it's save to take in the long run.

 

My top 2 insomnia drugs in the past has been Zyprexa and Mirtazapine (and alcohol   ).

 

Zyprexa plus Mirtazapine was a really great combo for me for many many years, sleep and mentally. I eventually quit Zyprexa because for me it was a crap antipsychotic and Mirtazapine is contraindicated with the current antipsychotic (Lurasidon) I'm taking.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 09 January 2022 - 09:19 AM.

[bce]

 Zyprexa has been around for 20-25 years (in very large dosages) so it's safe to say it's save to take in the long run.

 

Hehe YS, thanks for replying! Been reading your posts for years just lurking longecity :P

Yeahh, good point that its been around for years, but i read somewhere someone trying to equate Zyprexa even at low doses with chemical lobotomy... Doesnt feel like it at least. Since it binds with high affinity to so many receptors it still feels kinda dirty but im sticking with it!

 

I dont have any problems with schizophrenia symptoms atm, ive had some periods of paranoia that was hard to get rid of but mostly due to excessive use of alcohol and cannabis. If i feel my thoughts ever start spinning in weird directions these days high doses of niacin really calms it.. adrenochrome? because of stress, possibly.

 

Lurasidon, would you care to elaborate on how its effective for you? The only APs ive tried are abilify and zyprexa, the former gave me intolerable akathisia and inner restlessness, but abilify was pretty good on anhedonia and somewhat helped with social anxiety...

 

Other than that im pretty interessted in lamotrigine for the inhibition of glutamate and gaba increasing effects, but have yet to try it...

 

Again, thanks!

Edited by bce, 10 January 2022 - 11:36 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

 

Yeahh, good point that its been around for years, but i read somewhere someone trying to equate Zyprexa even at low doses with chemical lobotomy... Doesnt feel like it at least. Since it binds with high affinity to so many receptors it still feels kinda dirty but im sticking with it!

 

Lurasidon, would you care to elaborate on how its effective for you? The only APs ive tried are abilify and zyprexa, the former gave me intolerable akathisia and inner restlessness, but abilify was pretty good on anhedonia and somewhat helped with social anxiety...

 

 

I think it's BS, I think you're most likely to be right that it might be some sort of lifehack on a low dose (like low dose Mirtazapine for sleep). 2.5mg is nothing if you compare it to dosages of 20mg etc. Maybe low dose is something like low dose Amulsipride where low dosages help with negative symptoms.

 

I've tried every second generation antipsychotic so far (from Risperdal to Zyprexa all the way to Cariprazine and Rexulti) and the most effective and the one that suits me and is most effective on my symptoms is Lurasidon. It gives me a strong antipsychotic effect on positive symptoms, gives me quite some pro cognitive effects and stables my mood pretty much all at the same time. The downside is that it is like any other antipsychotic medication that it does not help with negative symptoms and it's a really strong drug that not everyone can tolerate and it can barely be taken with other antispychotics or antidepressant medication, Lurasidon easily contraindicate with other mood medication. Everytime I tried another antipsychotic I had a psychotic episode, everytime I went back on Lurasidon it went in remission and I feel like myself again and if I do have a psychotic episode while on Lurasidon it's manageable. I have a few side-effects like agitation and restlessness but not every day, if I take it at night time I sleep through it and it's barely bothersome. If I sometimes forget to take it and take it at other times during the day the side-effects are really bothersome. (My positive symptoms arise in the PFC area of my brain and Lurasidon kinda protects that area, that's why I like it the most as a antipsychotic).

 

The past 4 out of 5 years I had such a strong insomnia it drove me literally crazy. I tried all sedating/sleep medication under the sun and I tried all different antispychotics but nothing helped and I always went back on Lurasidon. The only thing that helped my insomnia was alcohol/beer and because Lurasidon kinda 'resets' the hangover feeling and is such a strong antipsychotic I managed to survive alcoholism thanks to Lurasidon. The insomnia went in remission out of itself and it has almost been a year that I quit alcohol. Now that I look back at that period I kinda enjoyed my alcoholism days, without beer I wouldn't have survived those years but I've been there done that and I'm done with it   .

[bce]

Nice to hear that its working.

 

9 months sober for me, was drinking a bottle of whisky every other day and i just love it. Its like the angels start singing from the first sip. The day after is especially good where it felt like i was able to see through the fog in a way thats not possible otherwise.

Now im done with it, i have other thing i want to do in life but i know there's something to it that cant be beat.

 

To quote a song by Dylan that i connect with these feelings of what has been and where im at right now:

 

I’ll eat when I’m hungry, drink when I’m dry

And live my life on the square

And even if the flesh falls off of my face

I know someone will be there to care

 

It always means so much

Even the softest touch

I see nothing to be gained by any explanation

There are no words that need to be said

 

You left me standing in the doorway crying

Blues wrapped around my head

 

 

Edited by bce, 11 January 2022 - 11:47 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

Aren't some antipsychotics in very low doses mostly just (central) antihistamines? At least that's the case with Quetiapine. I haven't looked much into the binding profile of Olanzapine though. 5-HT2A antagonism increases deep slow-wave sleep so there's that too. I'd say with 2.5 mg you should be fine, like YoungSchizo mentioned Olanzapine has been around for decades and often prescribed in much higher dosages.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

I dont have any problems with schizophrenia symptoms atm, ive had some periods of paranoia that was hard to get rid of but mostly due to excessive use of alcohol and cannabis. If i feel my thoughts ever start spinning in weird directions these days high doses of niacin really calms it.. adrenochrome? because of stress, possibly.

 

 

Which form of niacin - nicotinic acid? niacinamide? inositol hexanicotinate?

 

How much?

[bce]

Aren't some antipsychotics in very low doses mostly just (central) antihistamines? At least that's the case with Quetiapine.

 

Ive actually tried Quetiapine at a low dose for like 3 nights, quit it instantly. Both Quetiapine and Promethazine gives me BLACK(!) circles around my eyes because of the antihistamine. Zyprexa doesnt.

 

I think the antihistamine action of Olanzapine is different but im not sure. And i also dont think its mostly it cause at 2.5mg i get less pleasure from dopamine increasing activities so maybe some antagonizing going on...?

 

Im no expert in understanding binding profiles. If you'd please check into Olanzapine and see if you can see anything worth noting id really appreciate it, all i see is a long list of receptors(?) :P but im starting to agree that 2.5mg should be no problem

 

 

 

Which form of niacin - nicotinic acid? niacinamide? inositol hexanicotinate?

 

How much?

 

Been using nicotinic acid in varying dosage for +10 years, im sure you're familiar with Abram Hoffer. Definitely my favorite supplement. Now i take 200mg before bed every day, the effect is subtle but its there. 99% of the time i dont get the flush.

 

Maybe once a week (depending on stress level) I increase to 500mg and the effect is stronger. Hard to explain really, i both like it and dont, reality becomes a bit more unreal and distant... i would guess its mostly because of increased serotonin.

 

These days i only do high dosages of 1-3 grams, maybe a few times a month. I like it when the flush hits, great with a nice warm bath. It feels almost drug like for me at this dosage. Before i sleep i can feel like i should be doing this more often since it feels so good. If i keep taking it at gram dosages i eventually feel like its dulling my cognitive ability during the day, being too uncritical of stuff and feeling less sharp...

 

Sometimes during the summer i stop taking it entirely for a few weeks and seriously thats when ghosts starts appearing in my mind... nah its not that serious, but the difference is night and day even at 200mg

Edited by bce, 13 January 2022 - 11:17 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

 

Im no expert in understanding binding profiles. If you'd please check into Olanzapine and see if you can see anything worth noting id really appreciate it, all i see is a long list of receptors(?) :P but im starting to agree that 2.5mg should be no problem

 

Well I'm no expert either, but Olanzapine seems to be moderately potent anticholinergic via antagonism of muscarinic receptors. That's one thing I would be a bit worried about since anticholinergics are linked to cognitive decline. But I'm not sure how Olanzapine behaves in low doses and is this really a concern. Perhaps someone else is more educated in psychopharmacology and could chime in.

[bce]

Well I'm no expert either, but Olanzapine seems to be moderately potent anticholinergic via antagonism of muscarinic receptors. That's one thing I would be a bit worried about since anticholinergics are linked to cognitive decline. But I'm not sure how Olanzapine behaves in low doses and is this really a concern. Perhaps someone else is more educated in psychopharmacology and could chime in.

 

Thanks! didnt know that. Ill go on with my personal problems but i use Oxybutynin which is an anticholinergic during the summer months to counter sweating (hyperhidrosis). Oxybutynin is really really "drying", works great. 

 

Anything cholinergic makes me sweat profusely, cant eat a single egg(!) I understand that its no good to be taking anticholinergics but days when i dont have much to do i take CDP-choline and thiamine, i dont know... but im trying to keep a balance some days high choline some days suppress it

Edited by bce, 15 January 2022 - 12:24 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

 

Thanks! didnt know that. Ill go on with my personal problems but i use Oxybutynin which is an anticholinergic during the summer months to counter sweating (hyperhidrosis). Oxybutynin is really really "drying", works great. 

 

Anything cholinergic makes me sweat profusely, cant eat a single egg(!) I understand that its no good to be taking anticholinergics but days when i dont have much to do i take CDP-choline and thiamine, i dont know... but im trying to keep a balance some days high choline some days suppress it

 

 

I guess we could speculate your neurochemistry is "acetylcholine dominant" and some amount of muscarinic receptor blockade is well tolerated. But this is more broscience than something actually evidence based. I wonder if Olanzapine makes it so that you don't need to use Oxybutynin during the summer? That would indicate its anticholinergic effects are relevant in low doses.

[bce]

I guess we could speculate your neurochemistry is "acetylcholine dominant" and some amount of muscarinic receptor blockade is well tolerated. But this is more broscience than something actually evidence based. I wonder if Olanzapine makes it so that you don't need to use Oxybutynin during the summer? That would indicate its anticholinergic effects are relevant in low doses.

 

Hehe, broscience all you need bro :P But yea i would guess im acetylcholine dominant, i believe part of my memory is pretty good too, ive had it tested and the doctors were quite impressed

never been that interested in choline supplements atleast not for memory effects... but the opposite, the drying effects of anticholinergics are quite helpful when it comes to social interactions and so on.

 

Ill keep Zyprexas anticholinergic effects in mind you might be right that i dont need as much oxubutinin. Thanks again! )