18 replies to this topic

[sensei]

Jean Calment is said to have put olive oil on everything she ate, AND to have consumed a kilogram of chocolate per week.

Olive oil contains oleocanthal which inhibits MTORC1 with an IC50 of 704 nanomolar concentration.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5051273/

Recently (2019), theobromine has been shown to inhibit mtorc1.

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/30451374/

Is it possible her admittedly massive consumption of olive oil and chocolate is responsible for her longevity?

[Mind]

I am willing to say yes. Olive oil and DARK chocolate helped her live a long time.

 

There is plenty of research behind both foods to suggest reductions in mortality.

Edited by Mind, 04 February 2022 - 07:14 PM.

[sensei]

I am willing to say yes. Olive oil and DARK chocolate helped her live a long time.

There is plenty of research behind both foods to suggest reductions in mortality.

Fantastic!

I propose a crowdfunded Male Wistar Rat study with the following cohorts:

Control

Non-EV Olive Oil daily at allometrically scaled amount equivalent to 200ml/day human dose (ASHD)

EV Olive Oil - Extra Virgin Olive Oil at AHSD

Dark Chocolate Allometrically Scaled from 1 kg per week Human dose

High Polyphenol/High Oleocanthal Olive Oil (HPHO) @ AHSD

EVOO plus Dark Chocolate Allometrically Scaled from 1 kg per week Human Dose

HPHO plus Dark Chocolate

I'm not waiting for results, lol.

[pamojja]

Jean Calment is said to have put olive oil on everything she ate, AND to have consumed a kilogram of chocolate per week.

Better take anything by hear-say with a grain of salt. That would be 143 g of chocolate (who testified it was DARK?) per day! And thereby at 840 kcal already that much, it could only mean she - with a body waight of 45kg only - ate chocolate as her main meal everyday. Just a bid too fancifull to imagine her pouring olive oil on milk-chocolate on top of it too.

From wikipedia:

She enjoyed daube (braised beef) but was not keen on boiled fish. She had dessert with every meal, and said that given a choice she would eat fried and spicy foods instead of the bland foods on the menu.  She made herself daily fruit salads with bananas and oranges. She enjoyed chocolate, sometimes indulging in a kilogram (2.2 lb) per week.[40] After the meal, she smoked a Dunhill cigarette and drank a small amount of port wine.

Nothing that special there. Only that she survived her bouts of indudgement in sugary food, like milk-chocolate, that long.

[sensei]

From wikipedia:

Nothing that special there. Only that she survived her bouts of indudgement in sugary food, like milk-chocolate, that long.

Milk Chocolate wasn't INVENTED until 1875.

Calment was born in 1875, it was ENTIRELY more probable she ate DARK CHOCOLATE.

[sensei]

If she exercised regularly as is claimed (tennis, walking, biking) 3000kcal a day is not unreasonable.

A healthy pro-ketotic diet would easily call for 1500-1800 kcal/day from fat. Which gives us 100ml olive oil 143gram chocolate, with 100 grams protein and 200 grams carbs a day.

Her lifespan was abnormal, her diet was likely abnormal as well.

When I was exercising regularly, and on the keto diet, I regularly consumed 3000 fat 800 protein (200 gm) and 200 carb (50gm) kcal/day and could barely gain weight.

Edited by sensei, 04 February 2022 - 10:31 PM.

[pamojja]

Milk Chocolate wasn't INVENTED until 1875.

Calment was born in 1875, it was ENTIRELY more probable she ate DARK CHOCOLATE.

Milk Chocolate indeed was a later invention, but the huge amount of sugar in it wasn't.

[pamojja]

A healthy pro-ketotic diet would easily call for 1500-1800 kcal/day from fat. Which gives us 100ml olive oil 143gram chocolate, with 100 grams protein and 200 grams carbs a day.

Not with daily fruit-salat and desert, even with with every meal she ate. And indulging sometimes in a kg chocolate a week doesn't mean she did that 365 days a year.

Edited by pamojja, 04 February 2022 - 10:35 PM.

[sensei]

Fruit salad and dessert may skew to less protein.

60% fat calories is actually lower than most ketotic diets.

We now know that low carb low protein high fat diets are healthier than moderate or high carb diets.

[sensei]

And you miss the entire point it's not about eating dark chocolate and olive oil it's about Oleocanthal and theobromine.

Her penchant for olive oil and chocolate has been described multiple times and it's interesting that substances in those two Foods inhibit mtorc1.

The inhibition of mtorc1 by Oleocanthal and theobromine was not known at her time of death.

Edited by sensei, 04 February 2022 - 10:46 PM.

[pamojja]

And you miss the entire point it's not about eating dark chocolate and olive oil it's about Oleocanthal and theobromine.

Your point is one can feast on sugary food with every meal and stay in ketosis, as long one adds olive oil and cocoa?

Would be nice. Just not true.

[sensei]

Your point is one can feast on sugary food with every meal and stay in ketosis, as long one adds olive oil and cocoa?

Would be nice. Just not true.

I never said that.

Go back and read my post.

Hint: I said 60% fat calories is lower than a ketotic diet. I never said you can eat lots of sugar and stay in ketosis.

But 50 grams of sugar, won't normally kick you out of ketosis. A glass of port by itself won't kick you out of ketosis.

But we should stay on topic and discuss MTORC1 inhibition by theobromine and oleocanthal.

[kench]

  "Calment was born in 1875"

  

  That was likely her mother.

[pamojja]

But we should stay on topic and discuss MTORC1 inhibition by theobromine and oleocanthal.

 

The title you gave this thread was:

Jean Calment Longevity - MTORC1 Inhibition New Evidence?

But you brought absolutely no evidence in relation to Jean Calment, merely your speculations about her from hear-say in trying to support your pet-theory.

 

[sensei]

The title you gave this thread was: Jean Calment Longevity - MTORC1 Inhibition New Evidence?
But you brought absolutely no evidence in relation to Jean Calment, merely your speculations about her from hear-say in trying to support your pet-theory.

I brought anecdotal evidence regarding her anomalous eating, and scientific evidence what she purportedly ate inhibits MTORC1.

Then I proposed a multi-cohort study to validate.

You may call the evidence weak, and if you do so, I agree - it is weak.

However, you CANNOT ACCURATELY state there is no evidence.

[johnhemming]

However, you CANNOT ACCURATELY state there is no evidence.

 

I think your point is valid.  There is weak evidence, but that is "some evidence" not "no evidence".

[sensei]

I think your point is valid. There is weak evidence, but that is "some evidence" not "no evidence".

Here is some more weak evidence:

Giuseppina Projetto (116)
Goldie Michelson (113)
Jeanne Calment (122)

ALL 3 SUPERCENTENARIANS Ate dark chocolate EVERY DAY

Theobromine inhibits MTOR, and adipigenesis - likely the reason behind the dark chocolate paradox -- dark chocolate can actually contain more calories than milk chocolate - but apparently many large consumers don't get large due to theobromine.

TheobromINE also inhibits IL-1B and other inflammatory cytokines.

[johnhemming]

I like the idea, but I don't currently have it in my protocol.

[sensei]

I like the idea, but I don't currently have it in my protocol.

The most interesting thing I found during my research is a company in Louisiana has an oleocanthal/polyphenol extract from olive oil now available.

I'm not a supplement shill so if someone is interested they would have to PM me for the info.