10 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

I did another hearing test recently and it's pretty much right at my age as far as the high frequencies are concerned. This likely has made it all the more difficult to make out what people are saying in my second language, Spanish. I also struggle with hearing dialogue in movies. Restoring this would be incredible and apparently it is possible to do but it's as if nobody's pursuing it that I can tell.

 

There have been numerous publications indicating that stereocilia can be regenerated by modulating wnt and notch signaling, normally through the inhibition of notch signaling directly inside the cochlea. They've even discovered that EGCG is highly effective in inhibiting said signaling. The issue is that delivering any sort of drug to that area without a surgical, image guided injection has proven difficult. You can't get drugs past the blood labyrinth of the inner ear, similar to the blood brain barrier. Having taken EGCG with the bioavailability enhancements such as black pepper, 50mg of vitamin c and being on an empty stomach hasn't helped at all.

 

Has there been any news at all that anyone in this field has heard about lately? I feel like this is still years out and that really sucks.

[mbdrinker]

35 yeas old = 16000 hz limit. 50 = 12000 hz are normal in average. Clean ears by peroxide of hydrogen. Avoid loud sounds. Do not play piano. Do not take drugs like painkillers indometacin. You can only prevent hearing loss but not cure it

[johnhemming]

I quite like this online test

https://www.audioche...cycheckhigh.php

 

I have until recently been able to hear 13kHz in the morning and 14kHz in the evening.  However, more recently I have intermittently heard the 15kHz sound. I am 62,  I do play the piano and was a drummer in a heavy metal/punk band in the 1970s.  I did, however, use ear plugs when playing the drums and avoided stupidly loud sounds.

 

 

[mbdrinker]

Piano degrades hearing more than even drums since it has resonances in 3500hz which is most sensitive and painfuul range ie high mid freqs. Find the book fundumentals of piano practice technique by chinese guy. It explains it. From 25 years old dont even try playing without earbuds. More facts: svatoslav richter had absolute pitch and completely lost pitch even semitones when old - info from movie about richter unconquarable. Hearing of hifreqs in not totally lost but decreases by 15 and more db with age. So you may get good honest eq like arboretom ionizer 1997 increase 19000hz say by 30db and you will be enjoying hearing it but cds are eqed for teens not for us

Edited by mbdrinker, 06 May 2022 - 04:26 PM.

[johnhemming]

I perform as a pianist (amplified keyboards in a jazz band). I think my hearing is at worst static, but potentially improving.

[mbdrinker]

Perhaps you somehow equalize your perception of highs in brain by drugs but ear damage remains the same. Miracles do not happen unfortunately.Piano spoils hearing, proved by richter, bethoven... The danger comes from the fact that you dont feel pain while playing it but in 10 mins after it you have noise in the head at silence like after rock concert. It comes from overpressure in high mid range. Hearing damage is masked by absence of pain but its there

[Hebbeh]

https://www.scienced...20504110413.htm

[mbdrinker]

With age tissues undergo deformation which changes ear chambers and cavities shape which can luckily potentially boost hi frequencies like is made in microphone designing

[EliotH]

Nate - EGCG liquid mixed with DMSO and put into the ear canal might make it past the eardrum. I don't know if it would make it to the cochlea or not. Also it seems the liquids are only 50% EGCG so there would be some other crap in there. I would be afraid to try it.

[zorba990]

NAC for the win possibly enhanced by aspirin use

The efficacy of N-acetylcysteine to protect the human cochlea from subclinical hearing loss caused by impulse noise: a controlled trial
"In military outdoor shooting training, with safety measures enforced, the risk of a permanent, noise-induced hearing loss is very small. But urban warfare training performed indoors, with reflections from walls, might increase the risk. A question is whether antioxidants can reduce the negative effects of noise on human hearing as it does on research animals. Hearing tests were performed on a control group of 23 military officers before and after a shooting session in a bunker-like room. The experiments were repeated on another group of 11 officers with peroral adminstration of N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC), directly after the shooting. The measurements performed were tone thresholds; transient-evoked otoacoustic emissions, with and without contralateral noise; and psycho-acoustical modulation transfer function (PMTF), thresholds for brief tones in modulated noise. Effects from shooting on hearing thresholds were small, but threshold behavior supports use of NAC treatment. On the PMTF, shooting without NAC gave strong effects. Those effects were like those from continuous noise, which means that strict safety measures should be enforced. The most striking finding was that the non-linearity of the cochlea, that was strongly reduced in the group without NAC, as manifested by the PMTF-results, was practically unchanged in the NAC-group throughout the study. NAC treatment directly after shooting in a bunkerlike room seems to give some protection of the cochlea."

Dosing study on the effectiveness of salicylate/N-acetylcysteine for prevention of noise-induced hearing loss
"Abstract

The efficacy of three different doses of sodium salicylate (SAL) in combination with one dose of N-acetylcysteine (NAC) to prevent noise-induced hearing loss was studied in chinchillas. After obtaining baseline-hearing thresholds, the chinchillas were randomly assigned to one of four treatment groups: three sets were injected intraperitoneally with 325 mg/kg NAC combined with 25, 50, or 75 mg/kg SAL, and a separate control group was injected with an equal volume of saline. Animals were injected twice daily for 2 days prior to and 1 hour before the noise exposure (6 hours to a 105-dB Standard Pressure Level octave band noise centered at 4 kHz). Immediate post-noise hearing thresholds were obtained followed by post-noise treatments at 1 hour then twice-daily for 2 days. Hearing tests continued at 1, 2, and 3 weeks post-noise, and immediately after the last hearing test, animals' cochleae were stained for hair cell counts. All the groups showed hearing improvement until week 2. However, at week 3, saline treated animals demonstrated a 17-33 dB SPL permanent threshold shift (PTS) across the test frequencies. Hearing loss was lowest in the 50 SAL/325 NAC mg/kg group (all frequencies, P < 0.001), and although PTS was reduced in the 25 and 75 mg/kg SAL dosage groups compared to the saline group, only the 75 mg/kg SAL group was significantly different at all but 2 kHz frequency. Coupled with the hearing loss, outer hair cell (OHC) loss was maximal in the 4-8 kHz cochlear region of saline treated animals. However, there was a substantial reduction in the mean OHC loss of the NAC plus 50 or 75 mg/kg (but not the 25 mg/kg) SAL groups. These findings suggest that SAL in combination with NAC is effective in reducing noise damage to the cochlea, but SAL has a relatively narrow therapeutic dosing window."

Dose and time-dependent protection of the antioxidant N-L-acetylcysteine against impulse noise trauma
"Noise-induced hearing loss is one of the most common causes of hearing disability, and at present there is no effective biological protection or cure. Firearms and some industrial equipment can generate very high levels of impulse noise, which is known to cause sensorineural hearing loss. It has been shown that antioxidants such as N-L-acetylcysteine (NAC) can protect the inner ear from oxidative damage. The present study investigates whether NAC (i.p.) can protect the cochlea from impulse noise trauma. Rats were exposed to 50 noise pulses at 160 dB SPL peak value. Electrophysiological hearing thresholds were assessed with auditory brainstem response (ABR) up to 4 weeks after noise exposure. Animals exposed to impulse noise, without treatment of NAC, had larger threshold shifts in the frequency range 4-40 kHz than animals injected with NAC. Hair cell loss was significantly reduced using a schedule of three NAC injections in the rats. These results suggest that NAC can partially protect the cochlea against impulse noise trauma."

[EliotH]

This is interesting but Nate was originally asking about regenerating the hair cells in the cochlea, not preserving the existing ones. The fact that NAC and aspirin can make it to the cochlea orally or by injection is promising. Maybe with a larger dose of EGCG some might get to the cochlea.

 

Also interesting that aspirin+NAC was effective in preserving the cells. I saw an ENT recently and one of the warnings she gave me said aspirin was associated with hearing loss. Maybe its the dose. 50mg/kg would be a huge dose for humans.