11 replies to this topic

[ironfistx]

What do you ask for to get one of a product?

Well I know some places offer these but how do you verify it's real and what do you look for? I read some places use fake results.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi ironfistx,

 

We have been in business since 2007, and we have seen it all.

 

In the past other companies have used our RevGenetics COA's as theirs and photoshopped our name out of them or added their name.

Many online COA's may by fine, but if your spider sense is tingling or you feal uneasy about something, its super simple to check them.

 

When you look at the COA, make sure it has:

 

1- A Batch or lot number and the Certificate of Analysis (COA).

2- The name of the lab and phone number (very important).

3- Make sure the name of the company who requested the COA is the same as the name on the product or company who you are purchasing from.

4- Make sure you see the ingredient in the test shows either the purity (if you are seeing powder) or the amount of the ingredient per serving matches what the label of your product says.

5- Finished product testing usually has microbials as well (At least they should, according to FDA regulations).

 

Now lets verify the COA:

Call the lab and say you want to verify the COA you have is legit. They will ask you for a number (usually a control number that is unique to the COA). Then verify with the lab if the name of the company that requested the COA is correct, if the ingredient tested is correct (identity), and the purity (or amount per serving) is accurate. If the lab confirms these things, then you have a good COA!

 

Labs are typically very helpful when people call up.

 

I hope this helps!

 

Anthony Loera

RevGenetics

[ironfistx]

I am actually going to call the lab in question because I have observed a few things:

 

1) the address is wrong on one of the pages (they misspelled the city... sort of, but only on the first page of the results, so I really wonder, WHY WOULD THE FIELD BE TYPED MANUALLY EACH TIME?

 

2) for the same product by different companies, one of them has things like bacteria and mold testing, and the other just has purity testing.  These were done by the same lab.

 

Really, you're saying if I call the lab and say "hey, did you guys really test sample number whatever" they will say "yup we did' or "nope we didn't"?  And confirm the company or whatever?

Edited by ironfistx, 18 January 2023 - 09:26 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

I am actually going to call the lab in question because I have observed a few things:

 

1) the address is wrong on one of the pages (they misspelled the city... sort of, but only on the first page of the results, so I really wonder, WHY WOULD THE FIELD BE TYPED MANUALLY EACH TIME?

 

2) for the same product by different companies, one of them has things like bacteria and mold testing, and the other just has purity testing.  These were done by the same lab.

 

Really, you're saying if I call the lab and say "hey, did you guys really test sample number whatever" they will say "yup we did' or "nope we didn't"?  And confirm the company or whatever?

 

Yes,

 

just act like you are a business or professional trying to confirm the information of the COA.

Then start with the Control number so they can find it in their system.

 

After that, begin with...

"ok this COA is testing the ingredient <name of the ingredient> and the amount is <purity or serving amount>, is that correct on your end?"

 

Then continue to the business name and address.

"My copy says that <Company XYZ> was the company that sent you the sample to have it tested, is that correct, and the address is "<address of the company>?"

 

They are usually very helpful, and the COA's all have the company name and address that sent the sample to be tested.

 

If there is a discrepancy, they will tell you. Usually they can tell you the actual purity or the different ingredient, if it doesnt match up to what is in their records, etc. Now, if they do find a discrepancy in the company name, they may not tell you who the real company was who they tested the sample for, just that the company you mentioned was not the correct company they printed on the COA.

 

Any discrepancy found should sound alarm bells regarding the COA you have.

 

I hope this helps

 

A

[ironfistx]

Does this look handmade/fake to you? https://cdn.shopify....pg?v=1668800874

 

I'm talking about MAXX HERB Calcium Alpha Ketoglutarate.  In another thread, they said the company used to be involved with some suspicious stuff (post 74 in this thread).  Anyway, this COA, looks like it was made in Excel and has no company or address on it.

 

 

Edited by ironfistx, 29 January 2023 - 07:16 AM.

[ironfistx]

Here's another trait that makes me suspicious.

 

If you look at ProHealth's certificates for two different products, NMN and Calcium alpha ketoglutarate, the signatures on the front page are identical.

 

https://cdn.shopify....pg?v=1671149979

https://cdn.shopify....pg?v=1672174653

 

Is this normal, that the testing company would use a stamp or something for the signature?

 

Furthermore, on the Calcium alpha ketoglutarate copy, the Lab Sample IDs are different on the two pages.  One says 5/19/1905 and the other says 1966.  I wonder if 5/19/1905 is a beginning of time date default for their computer system.  Why would the sample ID be a date?

Edited by ironfistx, 01 February 2023 - 01:57 AM.

[ironfistx]

More info for the above

 

I reached out to Twin Arbor Lab to ask them about Pro Health's analysis of their Calcium alpha ketoglutarate.

 

I presented them with the following three questions:

 

1) why does the sample ID not match on the two pages

 

2) why are the signatures identical

 

3) why was no bacteria or metal testing done

 

 

Reply:

 

1) the lab document on Pro Health's site matches exactly what they have.  There was an error on their -- Twin Arbors -- side with the sample ID being wrong.  The second ID ties it to their online portal.

 

2) with online signatures they just use a copy, this is normal

 

3) only the main ingredient test was requested so nothing else was tested.

 

 

I am intending to order this product now, because I cannot find another calcium alpha ketoglutarate product that is a) affordable (Rejuvant) b) without shady analysis (MAXX HERB) and c) not liposomal (Renue By Science) - and while I'm sure liposomal versions are just fine, I have not see any research on them

Edited by ironfistx, 01 February 2023 - 10:49 PM.

[ironfistx]

Additionally, I reached out to MAXX HERB and asked them the reason no lab company was mentioned on their COA.

 

They said the testing is done "by the manufacturer" and they won't reveal it so competitors won't know.

 

This makes no sense.  Who cares who the manufacturer is?  Just send it to a popular lab and have them test it.  No one has to know who the manufacturer is.  I'd do it, but I don't want to spend $50 on their product and then another however on testing it.

 

Plus, MAXX HERB apparently is shady (see other thread).

 

Weak, because I wanted to use their product because it's not a pill.

 

Their COA could (I'm not saying it IS) be totally fake.  It's literally an excel table which features no proof or verification that it was even tested.  Look, I can make my own:

 

IRONFISTX'S CALCIUM ALPHA KETOGLUTARATE

 

PURITY: 100%

MOLD: 0.00PPM

SAMPLE ID: G38285

[ironfistx]

Moreover, I don't feel bad making these comments about MAXX HERB because when YOU are selling a longevity compound, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove you're really selling it.  Labs without 3rd party certification are meaningless.  You're saying hey guys, trust us, seriously.  Because, you know, health vendors are so honest.

[Michael]

Additionally, I reached out to MAXX HERB and asked them the reason no lab company was mentioned on their COA.

 

They said the testing is done "by the manufacturer" and they won't reveal it so competitors won't know.

 

This makes no sense.  Who cares who the manufacturer is?  Just send it to a popular lab and have them test it.  No one has to know who the manufacturer is.  I'd do it, but I don't want to spend $50 on their product and then another however on testing it.

 

Oh, it makes perfect sense  — and it's another sign that they are sloppy about quality. What they're saying is that they don't do any independent testing before buying raw materials or putting it into pills, nor are they checking after the fact that their pill manufacturing has gone according to plan: they just ask the company selling them the raw material (the manufacturer) to provide them with a CoA and take it on faith that the results (which are often in-house or at a lab in China that you can't reach) are authentic and the lab competent and honest. This is common and bad practice in the industry.

 

I should note that even many good companies don't independently test every single batch of every single raw material they get from a given supplier. Instead, they'll test the first n batches that they receive, and if they all pass with no issues they will "certify" them as a supplier of that material and only test intermittently afterward, and/or only do independent testing on microbials and/or heavy metals. This isn't optimal, and is better if backed up by finished product testing, but isn't a red line you should never accept.

 

And of course they don't want to disclose the manufacturer for legitimate competitive reasons — in itself that's not problematic. But just transcribing a manufacturer CoA onto their own letterhead is a farce.
 

[ironfistx]

To be fair Maxx Herb's product in question here is not in pill form, but yes.  I was kind of hoping to use that one because I'd rather place it in water than use more pills.

 

Anyway, I questioned ProHealth if their cakg product can dissolve in water should you pour it out of the capsules.  I am waiting for an answer. 

Edited by ironfistx, 02 February 2023 - 07:36 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Many new "TikTok Supplement" brands don't know that they have to do finished product testing, outside of manufacturing.

 

It's just an FDA item in the 21 CFR 111 Regulations.

 

It wasn't really enforced until 5-6 years ago I believe, after a lawsuit was won

by the FDA against a Brand, for something a manufacturer did.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

A