21 replies to this topic

[Thomas.Lebers90]

Since May of 2021 I've been taking Melatonin 1.8 mg each day. Sublingual form: https://www.rossmann...p/4036581536962

Reason for why I take Melatonin? I had difficulties falling asleep. Melatonin helps greatly to fall asleep. 

 

Yesterday a GP measured my height and weighed me. To my surprise he measured 178cm (5'10). I measured myself once more at home and confirmed the 178cm height.

 

Before 2021 I was 175cm (5'9). I know because I measured myself in 2018 before my septoplasty and was measured by doctors in the clinic.

 

Not that I am not happy, but why the growth? My growth plates surely are fused in my thirties. And why would Melatonin cause height growth - provided that it's the cause!? Sure, there is some tentative evidence that Melatonin might boost HGH, but with closed growth plates HGH won't make people grow.

I only take Melatonin. (I did take some antidepressants before 2020, but discontinued them at the beginning of 2020)

 

I am not sure what to make of it...

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Daniel Cooper, 31 January 2023 - 08:57 PM.

[Thomas.Lebers90]

Did anyone experience something similar on Melatonin? Is this a common "side effect" (although I would call it "nice effect")!? Should I have a talk with my MD regarding this growth spurt anomaly?

[Daniel Cooper]

I think one thing is for sure. As you say, the growth plates on the end of your bones have closed and your long bones are not getting longer.

 

I might just chalk it up to variability in the measurement. You are somewhat taller after getting up in the morning than you are later in the day - spinal discs expand at night when they are unloaded and will contract during the day as they are compressed while you are upright.  Your level of hydration will have a small impact on disc thickness. Were you wearing the same shoes or was the test done in your bare feet? You can be a little more hunched over one day and a little more upright the next.

 

Getting an accurate and repeatable height measurement is more difficult than most people think. If there's about an inch of uncertainty that wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

The chance that melatonin is materially impacting your height at your age is I think vanishingly small.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 02 February 2023 - 08:28 PM.

[ambivalent]

Well, you never know!

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6844604/

 

"Mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) are capable of differentiating into other cell types and exhibit immunomodulatory effects. MSCs are affected by several intrinsic and extrinsic signaling modulators, including growth factors, cytokines, extracellular matrix and hormones. Melatonin, produced by the pineal gland, is a hormone that regulates sleep cycles. Recent studies have shown that melatonin improves the therapeutic effects of stem cells. The present study aimed to investigate whether melatonin enhances the biological activities of human adipose-derived MSCs. The results demonstrated that treatment with melatonin promoted cell proliferation by inducing SRY-box transcription factor 2 gene expression and preventing replicative senescence. In addition, melatonin exerted anti-adipogenic effects on MSCs. PCR analysis revealed that the expression of the CCAAT enhancer binding protein a gene, a key transcription factor in adipogenesis, was decreased following melatonin treatment, resulting in reduced adipogenic differentiation in an in vitro assay. The present study also examined the effect of melatonin on the immunomodulatory response using a co-culture system of human peripheral blood mononuclear cells and MSCs. Activated T cells were strongly inhibited following melatonin exposure compared with those in the control group. Finally, the favorable effects of melatonin on MSCs were confirmed using luzindole, a selective melatonin receptor antagonist. The proliferation-promoting, anti-inflammatory effects of melatonin suggested that melatonin-treated MSCs may be used for effective cell therapy."

 

 

I do remember Turnbuckle citing height and foot growth on the stem cell protocol.

 

 

Edited by ambivalent, 02 February 2023 - 11:07 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Yeah, but the understanding is that once the end plates of the long bones fuse in the late teens/early 20s they can not be induced to increase in length.  You have to have non-solidified bone there at the ends to have the ability to grow new bone in a way that increases length.

 

Once the end plates are complete, it appears to be mechanically impossible to make the bone longer short of breaking it and maintaining a gap as the bone heals. 

 

I really know of no mechanism whereby a finished bone in maturity can get longer, stem cells or not.

 

 

[ambivalent]

I certainly don't have the biological know to argue against it, except for some anecdotes. There is Turnbuckle's but also James Nestor of Breath - he was on Rogan speaking on how he gained bone using homeoblock over a year - the pressure slowly stimulates the relase of stem cells to create more bone. I fancied ago. 

 

With Melatonin, you'd have thought there would be something coupled with it to have that effect. Anyhow, I certainly don't know but it is an interesting connection and maybe melatonin could be used with one or two protocols. I wouldn't have thought it but for TB's claim and one other poster a couple of months back too claimed increased shoe size on the protocol. 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Given the millions and millions of people taking melatonin every night and people not generally reporting getting taller - my money is on uncertainty in the measurement.

 

We're squishy meat and tissue hanging on bones that don't always stand up good and straight. It's pretty easy to get slightly different results when you measure a person's height.

 

 

 

 

 

[Thomas.Lebers90]

I think one thing is for sure. As you say, the growth plates on the end of your bones have closed and your long bones are not getting longer.

 

I might just chalk it up to variability in the measurement. You are somewhat taller after getting up in the morning than you are later in the day - spinal discs expand at night when they are unloaded and will contract during the day as they are compressed while you are upright.  Your level of hydration will have a small impact on disc thickness. Were you wearing the same shoes or was the test done in your bare feet? You can be a little more hunched over one day and a little more upright the next.

 

Getting an accurate and repeatable height measurement is more difficult than most people think. If there's about an inch of uncertainty that wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

The chance that melatonin is materially impacting your height at your age is I think vanishingly small.

 

Granted, but I am quite aware how to properly measure a human's height.

 

Back in my twenties I was 176cm in the morning and 174cm in the late evening. 175cm median. (Sports and stretching didn't affect that in my case)

 

Bare feet of course

 

I cannot explain the 178cm measurings.

I am unsure whether Melatonin is responsible but I cannot think of anything else.

Edited by Thomas.Lebers90, 05 February 2023 - 10:50 PM.

[ambivalent]

So have you had to buy some new jumpers? :o)

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4765744/

 

It seems melatonin inhibits bone resportion, the osteoblast

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...jmm-47-05-04915

 

" At pharmacological doses, melatonin has been shown to stimulate osteoblast proliferation and alkaline phosphatase (ALP) activity in a dose-dependent manner."

 

"It has also been shown to increase the cartilage and callus at the fracture site"

 

"Another study demonstrated that clock-related gene expression decreased in abnormal cartilage samples, and a nano-molar dose of melatonin restored clock-related gene expression and corrected the abnormal chondrocyte phenotype"

 

http://www.heightque...taller-via.html

 

"Unlike most bones which are totally covered by the periosteum, the long bones of the human body only contain periosteum on the sides of the bones while they have articular cartilage on the top.  If it were possible to increase the size of this articular cartilage, it would result in additional body height."

 

So any bone breaks or cartilage damage? 

 

This is a seatch and text dump - not a cohesive argument. But we do seem to have talk of melatonin influencing bone/cartliage repair/growth via some stem cell activation.  

 

edit: also just noticed you've been taking melatonin sublingually too, which I'm guessing isn't too common.

Edited by ambivalent, 06 February 2023 - 12:11 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

But still, the question remains - if melatonin does all these things, why haven't the millions upon millions of people who take it nightly for years on end noticed that they've grown an inch or so? After all, melatonin is one of the more popular supplements on the market today.

 

I've known people who have taken from 300ug nightly to absurdly high doses of the stuff - 20-30mg per night. None of them seem to have noticed getting taller.

 

I personally started taking 10mg per night 20 years ago when it wasn't really well publicized that this was a massively supra-physiological dose. I now take 300ug. I certainly never got any taller.

 

How come our Thomas is the only one getting taller?

 

 

[ambivalent]

Yes, it is still odd. Well, this is getting a bit twilight zone but I was watching a video with this guy about taking sublingual NMN - (the prof just holds it in solution in his mouth) he believes that if you hold it there more gets into the brain. 

 

https://youtu.be/RvNjaiBVJPI?t=1049

 

Well, on Rogan Nestor mentioned that the skull has growth opportunies because the skull has sutures.

 

https://youtu.be/yEe7PrUlYSA?t=322

 

So put those two things together! Or maybe sublingual is just better - I thought so with NMN all round not just for the brain. My money is on cartliage.

 

Did you ever take sublingual, I've not heard of that before - that would be the outlier and a few broken bones. 

 

Anyway, there is a plausible explanation - most of us don't measure our height and we certainly don't notice the daily 1/2 inch difference in height in ourselves or others.

 

[Thomas.Lebers90]

How come our Thomas is the only one getting taller?

 

Valid question. I don't know!

[Thomas.Lebers90]

So any bone breaks or cartilage damage? 

 

This is a seatch and text dump - not a cohesive argument. But we do seem to have talk of melatonin influencing bone/cartliage repair/growth via some stem cell activation.  

 

edit: also just noticed you've been taking melatonin sublingually too, which I'm guessing isn't too common.

Nah, just a bone break (arm) during my early childhood. I am not aware of any cartilage damage.

Where I live, most Melatonin supplements come as spray and are for sublingual use.

Until two years ago "we" Middle Europeans needed a prescription for Melatonin-"supplements". Getting it over the counter in the drugstore is a "new" thing.

Edited by Thomas.Lebers90, 06 February 2023 - 08:02 PM.

[ambivalent]

In the UK we still can't afaik. Anyway, well its still part mystery but it sounds as though you were right, somehow! But I may give subligual melatonin ago somewhen. 

[Thomas.Lebers90]

In the UK we still can't afaik. Anyway, well its still part mystery but it sounds as though you were right, somehow! But I may give subligual melatonin ago somewhen. 

 

Is the NHS as bad as they say?

[ambivalent]

Well, this probably isn't the place - but there is a sense it is being made to fail. If you were BP looking to expand your market, then a deregulated post-brexit UK is the perfect target. The other day I saw there was a covid trial in France for 400,000 iu of vitamin D (calciferol) with older patients. There is never any hope of this in the UK or US obviously. Every civilised country should have a free health care system and one that is pro-health and not pro-profit. This is the sort of thing that came to my attention today:  Create a reward system for lowering cholesterol, in other words pay doctors for perscribing statins. It is one of the many battles of our tme!

Edited by ambivalent, 07 February 2023 - 09:55 PM.

[Thomas.Lebers90]

Strange experience I've had with Melatonin: 0,9mg didn't put me to sleep but rather on the contrary made me agitated and "aroused". 1.8mg give me perfect 7 hours of sleep. 2,7mg make me sleep 14 hours. I haven't got the guts to try higher dosages. Although it would be interesting to try 5mg. Just to see what happens...

[Thomas.Lebers90]

Oh, and the dreams on that stuff are "hyper".

[Mind]

I would lean toward soft tissue modulation for the increase in height (if it is a repeatable measurement over time). Spinal discs and cartilage could be the contributing tissues.

[Thomas.Lebers90]

I would lean toward soft tissue modulation for the increase in height (if it is a repeatable measurement over time). Spinal discs and cartilage could be the contributing tissues.

 

Let's say 1mm per spinal disk, there are 23 spinal discs... makes an inch of difference.

I have read that Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM supplement combos can make people grow. The growth effect is only temporary. Apparently some fluid retention at spinal discs.

[Thomas.Lebers90]

Today I've been to a pharmacy and did get measured: 178.5 cm

 

 

[Thomas.Lebers90]

I've also used the following "supplement". It can be seen on the attached pictures.

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