25 replies to this topic

[osris]

List longevity supplements that are overrated.

 

 

[Mind]

Resveratrol.

 

It is probably beneficial in some way, because it comes naturally in food, but it seems to be overrated as a supplement.

 

NR, NMN, and other B3 derivatives. 

 

They are probably beneficial to some degree, but do they provide much more benefit than niacin/niacinamide? 

[osris]

I agree. 

 

Sinclair, though, seems to be digging his heels in that resveratrol works, despite independent testing showing it doesn't activate sirtuin-1. Here is an interesting article on it:

 

:text=Since%20then%20the%20results%20of,actually%20be%20harmful%20to%20humans' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>https://www.lifespan...rmful to humans.

 

Quote from it:

 

"Since then the results of these studies have been called into question – with the argument being that resveratrol is incapable of activating sirtuin-1 in humans, that there’s no reliable data for it’s benefits, and that it might not only be ineffective, but could actually be harmful to humans."

 

NR, NMN, and other B3 derivatives, like you say, are probably no better than niacinamide. Here is a video showing studies that show NMN to be a lessor NAD precursor then niacinamide and even niacin:

 

[mwestbro]

All of them.  To mention another currently popular supplement: spermidine is poorly absorbed.  If you can get it absorbed, epidemiology links it with increased stroke.

[mwestbro]

A few more: fish oil probably does not extend life.  Piracetam may increase the speed of cognitive decline.

[osris]

Are you saying all longevity supplements are a waste of time?

[mwestbro]

No.  But I think the benefits are consistently exaggerated.

[Mind]

I would say most supplements are "overrated", but I would never say they are mostly useless. A lot of them are concentrated from natural sources and provide health benefits. Vitamin D3 seems to be one of the most beneficial. 

 

Has any popular supplement been proven conclusively to lengthen human lifespan? No.

 

If you already biohack through diet, exercise, weight management, stress management, quality sleep, and meditation, then supplements are not likely to provide much additional benefit - and in this respect, most of the them are "overrated".

[LiveWellLiveLong]

What about vitamin K2?

[osris]

A bit off-topic regarding longevity supplements, but I saw this today:

 

"You Don’t Need to Supplement Your Microbiome."

 

https://www.outsideo...ome/?scope=anon

 

Here is a quote from the article:

 

"Probiotics are also present in our foods, primarily in fermented ones like yogurt, kimchi, sauerkraut, and cheese, and in supplements. But what many people don’t realize is that, generally speaking, probiotics from your diet don’t have a huge impact on your gut microbiome. There are somewhere around 100 trillion bacteria in your gut. “When you take a probiotic supplement or eat a food that contains probiotics, you’re introducing them to a habitat [your gut] that’s already densely populated with microorganisms,” Weinstock explains. A supplement may boast “one billion live probiotics,” but that’s just 0.001 percent of the bacteria already in your gut. Those one billion probiotics have to fight hard to colonize your already-packed microbiome and might end up just passing through your stool."

 

I showed this quote to ChatGPT (the AI bot) and it replied:

 

"Based on the quote provided from the article, it suggests that probiotics from dietary sources, such as fermented foods, may not have a significant impact on the gut microbiome. The author highlights that the gut is already densely populated with microorganisms, estimated to be around 100 trillion bacteria, and introducing probiotics through food or supplements may face challenges in colonizing the gut due to the large existing microbial community.

 

While I cannot evaluate the entire article as it was not provided, the concept mentioned in the quote aligns with current understanding in the field of gut microbiome research. It is widely recognized that the gut microbiome is a complex ecosystem with a diverse array of microorganisms that play a crucial role in maintaining health and well-being. The introduction of probiotics, whether through dietary sources or supplements, may have limited and transient effects on the overall composition and functionality of the gut microbiome.

 

It is important to note that the effectiveness of probiotics may vary depending on several factors, including the specific strains and species of probiotics used, the individual's unique gut microbiota, and the overall health status of the person. Further research is needed to better understand the specific mechanisms by which probiotics interact with the gut microbiome and their potential benefits.

 

Please keep in mind that this analysis is based solely on the quote provided, and a comprehensive evaluation of the entire article would provide a more complete understanding of the author's arguments and supporting evidence."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by osris, 28 May 2023 - 03:52 PM.

[LiveWellLiveLong]

Prebiotic’s seem to have been shown to help various strains in the body. Fos and Gos feed bifidobacterium. Phgg feeds lactobacillus, bifido, roseburia and eubacterium. Resistant starch feeds roseburia, eubacterium and Ruminococcus. I guess the only way to really know is to do stool tests before and after to detect various strains.

[osris]

Prebiotics seem a sensible way to go about things, as they give health to your existing innate and naturally evolved microbiota. Probiotics, by adding new novel to your body microbiota, seems pointless. 

[LiveWellLiveLong]

Prebiotics seem a sensible way to go about things, as they give health to your existing innate and naturally evolved microbiota. Probiotics, by adding new novel to your body microbiota, seems pointless. 

 

Seems to make complete sense.  All throughout our evolution we probably consumed tons of prebiotic fiber/resistant starch etc, and never took probiotics in pill form.  Nature provides the miracle grow for our microbiome.

[LiveWellLiveLong]

A few more: fish oil probably does not extend life.  

 

Would you then conclude that having your Omega 3 markers like Omega Check or Omega 3 Index in range doesn't mean anything in terms of life extension?  My Omega Check score was 7.0 (they want you above 5.4), and I take Viva Naturals fish oil pills daily (they had a high lab score on Labdoor.com), as well as eat 1oz of Salmon Roe a lot of days of the week, and can only conclude these are the reasons for my score.  I think a lot of the fish oil that is marketed out there has high levels of contaminants in it -- even big name brands like Carlson's that most people take came back with awful contamination lab testing for heavy metals etc as well as the amount of what they claim to be in the product.  I am not certain that having this score elevated means much though....while my hsCRP is consistently at 0.1-0.3 at 42 years of age...I do have occasional high blood pressure, and elevated RDW....there seems to be a lot more biomarkers that could be causing aging that simply having adequate Omega 3 probably can't protect you from if you don't get them handled on their own?

Edited by LiveWellLiveLong, 29 May 2023 - 07:25 PM.

[osris]

Seems to make complete sense.  All throughout our evolution we probably consumed tons of prebiotic fiber/resistant starch etc, and never took probiotics in pill form.  Nature provides the miracle grow for our microbiome.

 

Yes, probiotics outside of food sources like yogurt etc have never been needed in evolutionary terms.

 

 

 

 

Edited by osris, 30 May 2023 - 10:49 AM.

[osris]

Piracetam may increase the speed of cognitive decline.

 

Here is what Chat GPT says about this:

 

"The use of piracetam, a type of nootropic compound, and its effect on cognitive decline is a subject of interest. However, based on the provided search result, which is a meta-analysis, the objective was to evaluate the protective effect of piracetam on cognitive impairments following coronary bypass surgery [1]. The study does not specifically address the question of whether piracetam increases the speed of cognitive decline.

 

It's important to note that the effects of piracetam on cognitive decline in general, outside the context of post-operative cognitive impairments, may require further investigation. There might be other studies or research available that specifically focus on the effects of piracetam on cognitive decline in different populations or conditions.

 

[1] Source: PubMed. "Cognitive impairments are observed in numerous patients following coronary bypass surgery, and piracetam are nootropic compounds that modulate cerebral functions by directly enhancing cognitive processes." Available online: https://pubmed.ncbi.....gov/24396419/"

[pamojja]

Yes, probiotics outside of food sources like yogurt etc have never been needed in evolutionary terms.

 

If one considers that uncontacted Yanomani contained about 4000 bacterial gut species, hunter-gatherer in contact with the outside world like the Hadza about 2000, but modern man only up to 1000 - evolutionary terms tuned against modern men.

 

What was different living in and from nature only? No antibiotics, no pesticides in everyday foods with antibiotic effects. No soaps or desinfectants, etc. Thoroughly trained immunity by contact with every possible pathogen.

 

That many lost species can of course not even in the slightest ever be replaced with probiotics, simply not that much available comercially, short of a fecal transplant. However, some - like the self-boosted reuteri curd - do have beneficial effects. Even death cultures have shown some effects. Not the solution at all, but simple a possibly partial improvement in the right direction.

 

When I tested with ubiome, stupidly just at the year of my major remission and not before, it showed 93 percent above bacterial diversity than all tested at that time by ubiome. The only factors for such diversity - despite chronic conditions - could only be years of eating real and healthy food with above 50g of fiber per day, no disenfectants, no conventionally all with antibiotics raised meats, and many years in developing countries with less than usual hygenie.

 

Despite eating curd and non-pasturized sauerkraut everyday, none of their Lacto- and Bifido showed in my biome. But that is also a feature of the much more diverse hunter-gatherer microbiome of the Hadza.
 

[pamojja]

 

List longevity supplements that are overrated.

 

Humans just have to different bio-chemical diversity, to answer that question with confidence.

 

For a 100 year old, always smoking and drinking alkohol still in good health without any supplementation, really all are overrated.

 

For someone like me, who effected remissions of multiple chronic diseases with life-style changes and comprehensive orthomolecular supplementation - all considered irreversibly progressing by conventional medicine - almost none. Diversity in foods also supports diversity in microbiome.

 

On which that first mentioned centenarian doesn't has to waste any thoughts on.

 

But the tricky thing is: when one is young one doesn't know where one's bio-chemical individuality will take one. If I consider how my remission were possible with various nutrients, many in mega-doses, I think it would have been easier to prevent with smaller preventive doses the decades before. But on the other site - this way chronic diseases prevented - I wouldn't ever know

[JohnGioLuca]

What about curcumin? It seems like every few years something is changing about its bioavailability. Is there a specific type that has been narrowed down to be the best overall and is it readily available? Thanks.

[LiveWellLiveLong]

What about curcumin? It seems like every few years something is changing about its bioavailability. Is there a specific type that has been narrowed down to be the best overall and is it readily available? Thanks.

There was a time I was taking it daily after reading about it, I had a blood test and my iron levels were below range for the first time in my life. I went off it and the levels returned. Then I read about high dose curcumin zapping iron levels.

[Lady4T]

I would say most supplements are "overrated", but I would never say they are mostly useless. A lot of them are concentrated from natural sources and provide health benefits. Vitamin D3 seems to be one of the most beneficial. 

 

Has any popular supplement been proven conclusively to lengthen human lifespan? No.

 

If you already biohack through diet, exercise, weight management, stress management, quality sleep, and meditation, then supplements are not likely to provide much additional benefit - and in this respect, most of the them are "overrated".

 

I  completely agree. I think that diet and lifestyle are fundamental for good health, healthspan and therefore lifespan. And you can't outrun a bad diet, so unless your diet is clean and nutritious, hours of exercise won't make you healthier or live longer. In fact, excessive exercise may be detrimental. 

It's all about nutrition. Give the body what the body needs, and it will work as designed.

[Lady4T]

And to address the topic of this thread, I do think that most supplements are overrated. Sure, they're useful under certain circumstances to correct a deficiency or imbalance, but the amino acids, fats, vitamins, minerals, etc., that the body requires to function properly can all be obtained from the proper foods. Which can be tricky these days due to the general low quality of our modern food supply lacking nutrients and full of toxins. But it's not impossible -- one just has to decide to change and choose wisely.

Edited by Lady4T, 30 May 2023 - 08:25 PM.

[LiveWellLiveLong]

What are your guys thoughts on PQQ as it relates to mitochondrial health and the growth of new mitochondria?  Overrated?

[RaisingNAD]

To be fair, NR sellers like Chromadex don't position NR as a longevity supplement. They position it as helpful for energy and repair.

[osris]

There was a time I was taking it daily after reading about it, I had a blood test and my iron levels were below range for the first time in my life. I went off it and the levels returned. Then I read about high dose curcumin zapping iron levels.

 

High dosages of curcumin may potentially cause side effects such as iron deficiency. But these side effects are more likely to occur with dosages over three grams a day. Dosages under three grams a day are unlikely to cause these side effects. 

[Mind]

High dosages of curcumin may potentially cause side effects such as iron deficiency. But these side effects are more likely to occur with dosages over three grams a day. Dosages under three grams a day are unlikely to cause these side effects. 

 

I take curcumin daily. I am not worried about iron levels. As a man, I want iron levels toward the lower end of the healthy range because high iron levels in men are positively associated with many age-related maladies.