119 replies to this topic

[gamesguru]

Just tried sensory deprivation for the first time two weeks ago, and I think I will be going once a month at least. At least until I master meditation in noisy environments. The research seems to depict it as being more effective for anxiety than depression. Which to me makes sense; anxiety is due to too many stimuli, while depression is a lack of fulfillment and satisfaction.

 

I felt sustained joy and peace for the first time in years after my first float. Granted lately I've made tons of other positive changes in my life and taken my supplement stack to the grandmaster level, but I strongly suspect sense deprivation therapy is playing a major role in any reduction of symptoms I may be seeing. The cause and effect were temporally proximate, and there was a strong state correlation between the post-float relaxation and the dark meditation in the moment.

 

The effects may be long-lasting, resolve a multitude of symptoms, require a small number of treatment sessions (as few as 1), and carry little to no risk (float therapy is considered relatively safe and not to have side effects). In a risk-benefit analysis, I find no reason for anxiety sufferers not to try flotation-REST therapy. They may be pleased with the results. Regardless, being alone with your thoughts is a wonderful test of mental strength and positivity. For many people, having nothing but their thoughts is an utterly humiliating & tragic experience.

 

Promising effects of treatment with flotation-REST (restricted environmental stimulation technique) as an intervention for generalized anxiety disorder (GAD): a randomized controlled pilot trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4807536/

"Regarding clinical significant change, 37 % in the treatment group reached full remission at post-treatment. Significant beneficial effects were also found for sleep difficulties, difficulties in emotional regulation, and depression, while the treatment had ambiguous or non-existent effects on pathological worry and mindfulness. All improved outcome variables at post-treatment, except for depression, were maintained at 6-months follow. No negative effects were found."

 

[Mind]

As everyone here in the LongeCity forum has known for more than a decade, benzos are harmful and don't work. New research confirms that benzos are almost all negative and no positive. People whose lives have been ruined by benzos should consider a class action lawsuit.

Edited by Mind, 03 July 2023 - 05:23 PM.

[gamesguru]

I agree. People today have a rather unhealthy relationship with their environment. Many of us would rather pop a pill than work through our difficulties & emerge stronger.

 

As discussed earlier, anxiety has a definitive function. It motivates, and encourages a healthy level of self-reflection & hesitation.

 

Without anxiety you would never mow your lawn, complete a homework assignment, or hesitate in a life-threatening situation. You would be constantly sinking your ship with loose lips, because there would be absolutely no filtering mechanism in place.

 

If you see a pretty girl you wish to introduce yourself to, it's natural to feel some anxiety. There is something you perceive as potentially high-reward, high-risk (even if this is an erroneous perception). But to me that's life, we are all ultimately pawns subject to the laws of nature, with little ability to predict or control the future. People who completely avoid anxiety are either highly aware and self-confident 9-dan souls, or they are afraid to relinquish control and admit their insignificance in the universe at large, trying instead to protect their own fragile ego with superstitions, false narratives and chemical anesthetics, all while failing to ever realize the beauty of humility or their true purpose here on Earth.

 

I mentioned awareness as being the true key to overcoming anxiety. There's lots of research out there showing mindfulness practice can alleviate both anxiety and addiction. When you're meditating, you're not consuming drugs or worrying about life. That's even more true in the form of sleep or a brief nap, which is the ultimate meditation.

[gamesguru]

Amnesia and protracted withdrawal are among the more serious side effects. There may be a few others as well, personality changes, mood, etc.

 

However, even if you haven't noticed any serious side effects, you may still wish to wean off them for reasons outlined above as well as more mild physical side effects & changes. A corollary to Murphy's law states that just because things haven't gotten worse doesn't mean they won't get worse.

 

A lot of times doctors are prescribing them out of ignorance & the fact that it is an old medicine. The level of complacency among MDs is sometimes astonishing. I feel like medicine keeps getting more complicated, but their business minds have limited capacity for new and conflicting information... they just focus on learning the basic theories, and keeping abreast of new profitable pharmaceuticals. If you pop quizzed a random selection of MDs on emerging trends in contemporary research, best dietary practices, or the uses and contraindications of common supplements (bacopa, quercetin, magnesium) I would bet moderate sums of money on most of them receiving convincingly failing grades (by the standards of more established and specialized experts).

 

Edited by gamesguru, 03 July 2023 - 08:50 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I was in the country side for a couple of weeks. Felt much more peaceful there. Only took Lorazepam couple of times. Back in the city now, but it seems this peaceful mindset has remained. 

 

Took this pic with my phone from a bird-watching tower:

 

 

If this kind of scenery doesn't ease your mind I don't know what will. 

 

I disagree benzos not working, but it's definitely problematic class of medications. Still less of a failure than SSRIs in my opinion.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 04 July 2023 - 04:18 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

I disagree benzos not working, but it's definitely problematic class of medications. Still less of a failure than SSRIs in my opinion.

 

Benzos do absolutely work for the vast majority of people ... at first. Versus SSRIs which reading the studies either don't really work at all beyond placebo or only work marginally better.

 

But, you take an anxious person and give them a middling dose of a benzo for the first time and within 30 minutes to an hour the vast majority are going to be feeling much calmer and significantly less anxious. They obviously and dramatically work really like few other drugs on the market. At first.

 

That's what makes them so seductive. Unlike an SSRI, SNRI, tricyclic, etc. etc. which if it works at all will probably only do so subtly and at that after weeks or a month or so to have any effect.

 

But by god you take that first benzo and you will be calmer pretty quickly in almost all cases.

 

Of course the problem is, you keep taking them and the brain/body wants to achieve homeostasis and return to it's original operating point. It doesn't really like to see those GABA receptors so easily and strongly activated. And so it starts to make changes to the gabaergic system. Maybe it shifts the GABA <-> Glutamate balance towards glutamate. Maybe it decreases the receptor population or causes them to become internalized. Or maybe three or four other ways to try to undo what the benzo is doing that we don't currently understand. We broadly call this building tolerance. Once you are on this treadmill you're going to be escalating your dose or seeing the effect diminish and dwindle. Some can get to a stable dose where they get enough of and effect without further escalating, but even many of those people are going to have real problems if they ever try to get off the drug.

 

The problem with some of the ways that the body may respond is that genes may be turned on/off (epigenetics) to make some of these alterations and they may take a long time to reverse, if they ever completely do.

 

There's also some allegations that benzos may simply set up a neurotoxic situation in some people and directly cause neural damage, particularly with the short lived ones like Xanax and the z-drugs. It's pretty easy to get into an interdose withdrawal situation with those drugs and you may end up routinely having excitotoxic episodes when that occurs.

 

These are just bad drugs that have been over prescribed for decades now and have done a lot of damage to a lot of people. They really should not be prescribed long term (a few weeks to a month) if at all for most people. You're far better off to learn to deal with anxiety through coping mechanisms, meditation, or exercise, etc. There are some people with some seizure disorders where benzos might be the best choice but they are rare. Most people have been getting them from GPs that seem to hand them out like candy if a patient says he's anxious, though that seems to be tightening up lately.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 04 July 2023 - 01:50 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

A lot of times doctors are prescribing them out of ignorance & the fact that it is an old medicine.

 

A lot of doctors seem to assume that because it's an old medicine that been prescribed for a long time, it must be safe.

 

This is of course a bad assumption. The FDA doesn't really do a good job at monitoring existing medications for issues, and the trials that were used back in the day originally to obtain FDA approval for these drugs back in the 1960s and 70s in many cases were less rigorous - smaller trial sizes, shorter duration, less comprehensive monitoring.  

 

You'll hear a lot of doctors say - "Oh, there's no problem with that drug. Why, it's prescribed for 50 years now."  That's really just lazy thinking.

 

 

[Mind]

Benzos do absolutely work for the vast majority of people ... at first. Versus SSRIs which reading the studies either don't really work at all beyond placebo or only work marginally better.

 

But, you take an anxious person and give them a middling dose of a benzo for the first time and within 30 minutes to an hour the vast majority are going to be feeling much calmer and significantly less anxious. They obviously and dramatically work really like few other drugs on the market. At first.

 

That's what makes them so seductive. Unlike an SSRI, SNRI, tricyclic, etc. etc. which if it works at all will probably only do so subtly and at that after weeks or a month or so to have any effect.

 

But by god you take that first benzo and you will be calmer pretty quickly in almost all cases.

 

Of course the problem is, you keep taking them and the brain/body wants to achieve homeostasis and return to it's original operating point. It doesn't really like to see those GABA receptors so easily and strongly activated. And so it starts to make changes to the gabaergic system. Maybe it shifts the GABA <-> Glutamate balance towards glutamate. Maybe it decreases the receptor population or causes them to become internalized. Or maybe three or four other ways to try to undo what the benzo is doing that we don't currently understand. We broadly call this building tolerance. Once you are on this treadmill you're going to be escalating your dose or seeing the effect diminish and dwindle. Some can get to a stable dose where they get enough of and effect without further escalating, but even many of those people are going to have real problems if they ever try to get off the drug.

 

The problem with some of the ways that the body may respond is that genes may be turned on/off (epigenetics) to make some of these alterations and they may take a long time to reverse, if they ever completely do.

 

There's also some allegations that benzos may simply set up a neurotoxic situation in some people and directly cause neural damage, particularly with the short lived ones like Xanax and the z-drugs. It's pretty easy to get into an interdose withdrawal situation with those drugs and you may end up routinely having excitotoxic episodes when that occurs.

 

These are just bad drugs that have been over prescribed for decades now and have done a lot of damage to a lot of people. They really should not be prescribed long term (a few weeks to a month) if at all for most people. You're far better off to learn to deal with anxiety through coping mechanisms, meditation, or exercise, etc. There are some people with some seizure disorders where benzos might be the best choice but they are rare. Most people have been getting them from GPs that seem to hand them out like candy if a patient says he's anxious, though that seems to be tightening up lately.

 

I agree - they do work - but the long term negatives outweigh the positives (same with SSRI's). I am tired of reading story after story of young people regretting ever taking them, suffering, and contemplating suicide.

[gamesguru]

A lot of sources clearly indicate they are intended for short-term use only, cautioning against severe long-term effects.

 

But that memo seems to have been missed in many cases.

 

I think we could use some sort of regulation limiting the length or number of renewals for the prescription. It has not gotten as "problematic" as the opioid epidemic, but it is important to delineate social harm from individual & physical harm.

[Daniel Cooper]

I think we could use some sort of regulation limiting the length or number of renewals for the prescription. It has not gotten as "problematic" as the opioid epidemic, but it is important to delineate social harm from individual & physical harm.

 

The only reason that the problems of benzodiazepines aren't as obvious and problematic as opioids is that it's pretty easy to kill yourself with an opioid, but really hard to do so with a benzo.

 

Some of the older pharmaceutical guides will say there is no known lethal dose of benzodiazepin in humans, but then go on and give the known lethal dose in various animals. In rats the LD50 dose is 1,200 mg/kg. Applying the standard rat -> human conversion (divide by 6.2) yields an LD50 in man of 193 mg/kg (which is probably not right but the best we have to go by). That's 32 grams in a 167kg human. Now, no one should take that as an indication that they can go boof 5 grams of valium, but it is an indication that it's really hard to lethally overdose on a benzo alone (unlike the drug class they replaced - barbiturates which have a very narrow therapeutic window).

 

So, they don't create obvious mayhem by stacking up bodies in the morgue the way oxycontin does, but they really can devastate lives almost as much. Lifelong addictions, damage to the brain and nervous system, changes in mood and personality, etc.

 

The way I've heard it stated, "It's really hard to kill yourself with benzos, but it's really easy to ruin your life with them". 
 

[Galaxyshock]

Of course the problem is, you keep taking them and the brain/body wants to achieve homeostasis and return to it's original operating point. It doesn't really like to see those GABA receptors so easily and strongly activated. And so it starts to make changes to the gabaergic system. Maybe it shifts the GABA <-> Glutamate balance towards glutamate. Maybe it decreases the receptor population or causes them to become internalized. Or maybe three or four other ways to try to undo what the benzo is doing that we don't currently understand. We broadly call this building tolerance. Once you are on this treadmill you're going to be escalating your dose or seeing the effect diminish and dwindle. Some can get to a stable dose where they get enough of and effect without further escalating, but even many of those people are going to have real problems if they ever try to get off the drug.

 

I wonder what the role of endozepines is. I mean the benzo site at the GABA receptor doesn't originally exist for drugs to bind to.

 

Endozepinesare endogenous compounds with benzodiazepine like effects. They have been linked to hepatic encephalopathy and have controversially been linked to some cases of recurrent stupor.[1] Initially, the key diagnostic test is stupor which is sensitive to the benzodiazepine receptor antagonist flumazenil in the absences of exogenous benzodiazepines.

Potential candidates for these compounds are:[2]

oleamides
nonpeptidic endozepines
the protein Diazepam binding inhibitor (DBI)

→ source (external link)

 

Maybe some pharmaceutical company could come up with an endozepine re-uptake inhibitor or something. 

[gamesguru]

Regardless, the intensity of effect and the quality of the intracellular signalling cascade may differ wildly from what endogenous compounds elicit at physiologically-relevant concentrations.

 

I think Cannabis is a great example of this. One of the functions of endocannabinoids is forgetting excess information, or information "noise"... useless details like the colors of all the cars on your ride to work. But THC itself is a mildly addictive substance with pronounced deleterious effects. The poison is in the dose. Every virtue is the mean between two extremes.

[gamesguru]

I think what happens in the edge cases of acute liver failure is interesting, but not necessarily super relevant to the common narrative.

 

Magnesium is probably the most ubiquitous bodily agent to have a pronounced effect at the benzodiazepine site.

 

Benzodiazepine/GABA(A) receptors are involved in magnesium-induced anxiolytic-like behavior in mice
2008
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/18799816/

The purpose of the present study was to examine interaction between magnesium and benzodiazepine/GABA(A) receptors in producing anxiolytic-like activity. We examined behavior of mice treated with magnesium and benzodiazepine/GABA(A) receptor ligands, in the elevated plus maze. The anxiolytic-like effect of magnesium (20 mg/kg) was antagonized by flumazenil (10 mg/kg) (benzodiazepine receptor antagonist) while combined treatment with the non-effective doses of magnesium (10 mg/kg) and benzodiazepines (diazepam (0.5 mg/kg) or chlordiazepoxide (2 mg/kg)) produced synergistic interaction (increased time in open arms and number of open arm entries) in this test. The obtained data indicate that benzodiazepine receptors are involved in the anxiolytic-like effects of magnesium.

 

[Galaxyshock]

Yeah the wikipedia article didn't reveal much about endozepines, I don't know why I quoted it lol.

 

This seems better as overview:

 

BZsare one of the most commonly prescribed medications for a variety of psychiatric and neurological disorders. There is substantial evidence that endozepines also play a critical role in many of these disorders, for example, by providing an endogenous mechanism for regulation of anxiety and seizures. Answers to the remaining questions will further our understanding of the complex inhibitory mechanisms in neuronal processing of the healthy brain as well as GABAAR-related disorders and could enable site-directed drug design for such disorders.

→ source (external link)

 

I wonder if one compensatory mechanism to long-term benzos is decrease in endozepines.

 

Maybe I should also look into neurosteroids a bit. Some of them are allosteric modulators of GABA receptors too.

 

 

Magnesium is probably the most ubiquitous bodily agent to have a pronounced effect at the benzodiazepine site.

 

Yeah it's quite impressive mineral. Definitely going to keep supplementing it.

[gamesguru]

Yes, and I'd bet the chemical structure and signalling cascade are almost complete opposites.

 

THC and anandamide (ANA) look nothing alike. In terms of effects, ANA is much more soothing and mild. So it's more of a good thing. And one of the mechanisms of CBD is actually a mild FAAH inhibition, which boosts anandamide

 

Leweke, F., Piomelli, D., Pahlisch, F. et al. Cannabidiol enhances anandamide signaling and alleviates psychotic symptoms of schizophrenia. Transl Psychiatry 2, e94 (2012). https://doi.org/10.1038/tp.2012.15

 

 

There was a preliminary study finding negative association between GABA receptor genes and anxiety[1]. But GABA is an important one. It's the site where many unexpected drugs act, including MAO-B inhibitors[2] and Cananbis[3]. You're welcome to research some gene associations with endozepines, but I think the circuits are more related to 5-HT and the complex interplay with GABA. That's how I would explain the seemingly miraculous relief reportedly brought by things like Xanax.

 

Raphe GABAergic Neurons Mediate the Acquisition of Avoidance after Social Defeat
28 August 2013
https://www.jneurosc...ent/33/35/13978

We tested this hypothesis using whole-cell recording techniques in genetically identified DRN GABA and 5-HT neurons in mice exposed to social defeat, a model that induces long-lasting avoidance behaviors in a subset of mice responsive to serotonergic antidepressants. Our results revealed that social defeat engaged DRN GABA neurons and drove GABAergic sensitization that strengthened inhibition of 5-HT neurons in mice that were susceptible, but not resilient to social defeat.

We provide the first characterization of GABA neurons in the DRN that monosynaptically inhibit 5-HT neurons and reveal their key role in neuroplastic processes underlying the development of social avoidance.

 

The Neurobiological Mechanisms of Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Chronic Stress
2017 Jun 8
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5832062/

(from Table 1)
Circuits

Attention network Dysregulation of amygdala reactivity Dysregulation of cingulate reactivity Habit systems Hypothalamic nuclei PVT Vigilance network

Behavior

Anhedonia/decreased appetitive behavior Anxious arousal Attentional bias to threat Avoidance Decreased libido Helplessness behavior Increased conflict detection Increased perseverative behavior Memory retrieval deficits Punishment sensitivity

 

References

 

[1] Pham, X., Sun, C., Chen, X., van den Oord, E. J., Neale, M. C., Kendler, K. S., & Hettema, J. M. (2009). Association study between GABA receptor genes and anxiety spectrum disorders. Depression and anxiety, 26(11), 998–1003. https://doi.org/10.1002/da.20628

 

[2] Cho, HU., Kim, S., Sim, J. et al. Redefining differential roles of MAO-A in dopamine degradation and MAO-B in tonic GABA synthesis. Exp Mol Med 53, 1148–1158 (2021). https://doi.org/10.1...276-021-00646-3

 

[3] Deshpande, L. S., Blair, R. E., & DeLorenzo, R. J. (2011). Prolonged cannabinoid exposure alters GABA(A) receptor mediated synaptic function in cultured hippocampal neurons. Experimental neurology, 229(2), 264–273. https://doi.org/10.1...rol.2011.02.007

[Galaxyshock]

I agree. People today have a rather unhealthy relationship with their environment. Many of us would rather pop a pill than work through our difficulties & emerge stronger.

 

As discussed earlier, anxiety has a definitive function. It motivates, and encourages a healthy level of self-reflection & hesitation.

 

Yeah the idea of medicating all anxiety away is both unrealistic and counterproductive. But I think some of us, who have general anxiety, need some help by pushing the brake pedal of the brain a bit. Surely with anxiety meds it's kinda difficult to find the spot where you aren't medicating "healthy anxiety" away. Benzos for many people can make them feel good "while Rome is burning" or so to say. But personally I never found benzos euphoric or anything, but still effective at removing excess background anxiety and worry.

[gamesguru]

Yes but it isn't just about making people feel good when they have problems in their lives. It's about working through problems rather than sweeping them under the rug.

 

According to Rumi, Lao Tzu and the Buddha many of these people have fundamental worrying tendencies or characteristics; there is no problem in their lives but they themselves. Once they overcome the defense mechanisms they learned in childhood, they can approach life with a healthy and open-minded attitude and not need to rely on calming medicines or other temporary solutions. This background anxiety is telling you something about yourself, and you need to meditate your way through it.

 

I had a discussion with a friend recently who believes exercise is the greatest good in terms of natural nootropics & antidepressants. I pushed back, arguing that yes exercise is good, but the benefits are generally short-lived (18 hours tops), and limited to the body or superficial, like a massage. It more so resembles a drug high than character development. Reading, CBT or float therapy seem to have a more lasting benefit, improving thinking and affective states for sometimes as long as 6 months.

 

People report side-effects and sometimes a persistent crummy feeling after coming off the medicine—whether it's Xanax or an SSRI. To me it's another red flag that you are only making yourself worse in the medium-term.

[Galaxyshock]

I've achieved samadhi during meditation but still reverted back to my anxious self. I've also exercised two hours a day, six days a week and still struggled with anxiety. I honestly believe some of us operate with worse brain chemistry than others for the modern world. Maybe thousands of years ago being anxiety-prone was beneficial for survival, but if it now doesn't do much more than promote suffering isn't it acceptable to take something for relief as we have medications that more or less work.

[gamesguru]

It probably can be used responsibly.

 

Clonazepam attenuates neurobehavioral abnormalities in offspring exposed to maternal immune activation by enhancing GABAergic neurotransmission
2021
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/34324871/

 

GABAergic modulation with classical benzodiazepines prevent stress-induced neuro-immune dysregulation and behavioral alterations
2015
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4679551/

 

But most of the people I've seen in the long term are never themselves on antidepressants or benzos.

 

Cognitive effects of long-term benzodiazepine use: a meta-analysis
2004
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/14731058/

Conclusion: Moderate-to-large weighted effect sizes were found for all cognitive domains suggesting that long-term benzodiazepine users were significantly impaired, compared with controls, in all of the areas that were assessed. However, this study has several limitations, one being that it includes a relatively small number of studies. Further studies need to be conducted; ideally, well designed, controlled studies that thoroughly investigate certain areas of cognitive functioning and present data in such a way so as to be amenable to inclusion in a meta-analysis. Incorporating the information from these studies into a larger meta-analysis would allow for a more thorough and statistically sound investigation of the effects of moderator variables. The observation that long-term benzodiazepine use leads to a generalised effect on cognition has numerous implications for the informed and responsible prescription of these drugs.


Rebound anxiety in panic disorder patients treated with shorter-acting benzodiazepines
1987
https://pubmed.ncbi....ih.gov/2889722/

 

Abuse and Dependence Liability of Benzodiazepine-Type Drugs: GABAA Receptor Modulation and Beyond
2008
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2453238/

 

Benzodiazepine Dependence: From Neural Circuits to Gene Expression
1998
https://www.scienced...09130579700539X

 

It's far better to normalize that calm feeling, and make that your new baseline you revert back to. Gradually put your anxious self into the past. You are what you repeatedly do, so if you become more calm across situations, you yourself become calm.

[Galaxyshock]

It's far better to normalize that calm feeling, and make that your new baseline you revert back to. Gradually put your anxious self into the past. You are what you repeatedly do, so if you become more calm across situations, you yourself become calm.

 

That's definitely something I need to work on. The time in the country side revealed to me I can feel much calmer without resorting to tranquilizers. But it is challenging to achieve the same in the urban environment I live in. Not impossible, I at least want to believe.

[gamesguru]

Too many people want to master their environment, master others, rather than master themselves. We are not all living perfect lives, it's natural AT TIMES to feel depressed, frustrated, uncertain, frightful, hesitant. The desire to avoid all these serves no good. If you need to feel that way at certain points in urban life, feel that way. It's fine. The problem is when we are not fine with it, or when it truly grows out of control and the negative emotion permeates us at every level, shackling us down relentlessly like a ball and chain. But even when it progresses to that point this is a vice we can overcome, a condition we can snap out of, much of the time. It takes less effort and more consistency than most think. But even if you can't snap out of it, that's fine; we're all human, experiencing our surroundings, growing through life. Let it all wash over your mind. You will emerge ready for new growth, all the positive thoughts out there will make sense.

[gamesguru]

Was randomly reading another post here when I saw that nicotinamide may act as a natural Benzodiazepine-like compound. Not sure the extent of this, but intuitively a compound the body already uses would elicit a more mild (and less tolerance-prone) signalling cascade.

 

Plus I always like it when a supplement I like for one thing has a promising application in a second area that I also find useful.

[Hip]

The anti-anxiety protocol detailed in this post often has miraculously powerful effects. 

[Galaxyshock]

Was randomly reading another post here when I saw that nicotinamide may act as a natural Benzodiazepine-like compound. Not sure the extent of this, but intuitively a compound the body already uses would elicit a more mild (and less tolerance-prone) signalling cascade.

 

Plus I always like it when a supplement I like for one thing has a promising application in a second area that I also find useful.

 

Yeah I remember I took niacinamide years ago because of the anxiolytic effect. It was pretty high dose though, 500 mg. Besides the BZD-like effect I think it increased tryptophan intake to brain according to a study. Not a bad idea to try it again.

 

 

The anti-anxiety protocol detailed in this post often has miraculously powerful effects. 

 

 

Haven't tried N-acetyl-glucosamine or flaxseed oil, but I'm definitely open to try new things so I might give your protocol a try at some point.

 

Feeling pretty good lately anxiety-wise. Days when I don't take Lorazepam are becoming less uncomfortable.

[Galaxyshock]

Little update. Still a bit stuck with taking a tablet of Lorazepam the days when I have socializing to do. Other days I try to either take half a tablet or none at all. Haven't drank alcohol for three weeks now, which does help but then again I sort of justify myself to use the benzo more thinking that at least it's less harmful than alcohol for anxiety. Still haven't tried some of the suggested things like Lemon Balm, I'm thinking that or some herbal sedative tea could be worth a try - maybe it will take the edge off and I'll have less desire to take Lorazepam.

 

Also, I've started exercising at an outdoor gym doing full body workouts. Definitely strengthens the body and mind. 

[Galaxyshock]

Bought some herbal tea that contains chamomile, lemon balm and rooibos. It's pretty weak but infusion from three tea bags seems to do the trick and calm me down a bit without drowsiness or anything. Probably won't help with social anxiety though - Kava would be better for that but again it's not obtainable for me right now. Maybe I'll buy some Gotu Kola, that used to make me more comfortable in social situations and less withdrawn. Regular exposure to social situations is of course also important, herbs/nootropics/meds won't do the work for me but can be a valuable tool. Step-by-step I believe I can leave Lorazepam to only be taken for serious anxiety, which should be rare. It's a good med to have but not to be dependent on.

[adamh]

Its been mentioned that magnesium has a calming effect. The problem is, taking too much by mouth gives you loose stools. You can of course absorb it dermally, there is a magnesium oil sold just for that purpose. Or a bath and soak in magnesium sulfate or epsom salts. Taken that way it doesn't affect the gut and you can take more. I'm sure there is a limit you don't want to go past but to get magnesium poisoning would take an awful lot more than a couple pills and a soak I'm sure. They say most people are deficient in mg.

 

I find theanine to help with anxiety. It is not really sedating but is calming. So, a long soak in epsom salts plus pop a couple mag pills and chill out. If still any trace of anxiety pop a theanine. See what that does for you

 

I also recommend focusing your attention on your breath for periods of time. It helps clear the mind and brings relaxation. Every time a thought comes up, you bring your attention back to your breathing. Practice it every day and it gets more and more effective. Add that to relaxing the whole body, the epsom soak and some magnesium, maybe theanine, and you will soon become a new man. Try it for a week and come back and tell us about it. 

[adamh]

I just happened to think that you can probably overdo the transdermal oils if you use it too much or for a long period of time. Another factor is the area of skin exposed to it and for how long. If you use too much you may get side effects, nausea perhaps. Or you might just sleep it off but there is the danger of too much for too long and can send you to the hospital

 

I saw a video recently, an emergency room doctor talking about cases that come in and what happened. There were a number of cases of people who put something like ben gay or icy hot all over their body and died. Also some who didn't die but lost tissue and were disfigured by too long exposure

[Galaxyshock]

A Finnish biohacker-doctor mentioned one should get up to 10 mg of magnesium per kg of body weight, so that would mean something like 900 mg for me. I've been supplementing 450 mg of elemental magnesium from magnesium citrate but might up the dose a bit. I don't have bathtub so can't try epsom salts, are those transdermal magnesium oils expensive?

 

I have theanine bulk powder, I take 600 mg before bed and sometimes 300 mg mixed in coffee during the day. It's smooth but helpful. Also started taking Ashwagandha again, I find it de-stresses me nicely.

[Galaxyshock]

Update:

 

So I've still been taking Lorazepam during the autumn-winter, but had a doctor's appointment yesterday and we decided that I finally come off Lorazepam. Got prescribed Propranolol to help with physical anxiety symptoms. I also still supplement magnesium and Ashwagandha which help. I try to remain optimistic that I can live without benzos, perhaps even so that I actually have less anxiety knowing I'm not dependent on them. If my anxiety remains as something that interferes with my life, I'll ask if Buspirone is something I could try, should be much less problematic anxiety med.