13 replies to this topic

[Hip]

There are several studies (see below) linking cytomegalovirus (CMV) infection with mental health symptoms such as anxiety, depression, bipolar and psychosis.

The first study below shows that it is only in cases of high cytomegalovirus antibody titres that anxiety and depression may appear (those positive for cytomegalovirus antibodies but with low titres did not have an higher prevalence of these mental conditions).

In my case, my cytomegalovirus antibody levels are constantly pretty high, some 34 times higher than the lab reference for negative. And I have anxiety and depression symptoms.



Studies Linking Cytomegalovirus to Mental Health Issues

Cytomegalovirus is associated with depression and anxiety in older adults 2008

The majority of the participants (66%) were CMV-seropositive and seropositive status was not associated with psychological morbidity.

However, within the CMV-positive group, individuals with higher CMV-specific antibody titres were more likely to be depressed, anxious, and suffer more overall psychological morbidity.

Large-scale study of Toxoplasma and Cytomegalovirus shows an association between infection and serious psychiatric disorders 2019

CMV infection might be a contributing causal factor for any psychiatric disorder.

CMV was more strongly associated with a more selected group of neurotic, stress-related, and somatoform disorders

Is human cytomegalovirus a potential risk factor for mood disorders? A systematic review and meta-analysis 2023

The results of this meta-analysis study demonstrated that CMV infection might have associations with the incidence of mood disorders.

Cytomegalovirus antibodies are associated with mood disorders, suicide, markers of neuroinflammation, and microglia activation in postmortem brain samples 2023

CMV seropositivity significantly increased the odds of a mood disorder diagnosis (bipolar disorder: OR = 2.45; major depression: OR = 3.70) and among the psychiatric samples, of suicide (OR = 2.09).

A Peptide Link Between Human Cytomegalovirus Infection, Neuronal Migration, and Psychosis 2020

Psychosis also appears to be linked to human cytomegalovirus (HCMV) infection.

Cytomegalovirus infection and IQ in patients with severe mental illness and healthy individuals 2021

Our findings suggest that CMV exposure may affect IQ in patients with severe mental illness but not HC [healthy controls].

Cytomegalovirus Antivirals

Antiviral drugs for CMV include Valcyte (valganciclovir), Vistide (cidofovir), Foscavir (foscarnet), Prevymis (letermovir) and Livtencity (maribavir).

Famvir (famciclovir) and Valtrex (valacyclovir) may have antiviral effects for CMV, though reports are contradictory.

Off-label drugs which are antiviral for CMV include: possibly artesunate (anti-malarial drug), leflunomide (immunosuppressive autoimmune disease drug).

Supplements which may have a mild antiviral effect on CMV in vivo include: monolaurin, Terminalia chebula, black seed oil (Nigella sativa), genistein, chlorella.



Natural killer (NK) cells are considered important in the control of cytomegalovirus infection, so some of the NK function boosters listed in this post might be helpful.

[Hip]

The prevalence of cytomegalovirus in the US adult population is 48%. Ref: here. 

 

Generally, the older you get, the more likely you are to have cytomegalovirus. So for example, in a German study (see Fig 1), about 30% of males in their 20s were seropositive for cytomegalovirus; whereas for males in the 50s, 60% were seropositive.

 

Once you catch cytomegalovirus, it stays in your body for life. So the older you are, the more chances you have had of catching it, which is why the cytomegalovirus seroprevalence in older people is higher. 

 

 

There is ongoing research into whether cytomegalovirus may cause immune senescence, but the science is not yet settled. 

 

Cytomegalovirus is associated with atherosclerosis, coronary heart disease, sudden heart attacks, type 2 diabetes, and other diseases. 

 

 

[Galaxyshock]

Kinda scary that these viruses may in fact sometimes be the primary cause of certain mental health issues. Yet this pathology is largely ignored and people are prescribed psych meds that often aren't even effective.

 

What is your opinion on medicinal mushrooms that show some antiviral and immunomodulatory properties like Reishi? Are they effective enough to be therapeutic against viruses such as cytomegalovirus and their downstream effects?

[Hip]

Kinda scary that these viruses may in fact sometimes be the primary cause of certain mental health issues. Yet this pathology is largely ignored and people are prescribed psych meds that often aren't even effective.

 

What is your opinion on medicinal mushrooms that show some antiviral and immunomodulatory properties like Reishi? Are they effective enough to be therapeutic against viruses such as cytomegalovirus and their downstream effects?

 

I had (and still have) a major interest in alternative medicine, as well as in conventional medicine. 

 

When I first developed ME/CFS nearly 20 years ago from a Coxsackie B virus infection, I thought my knowledge of alternative treatments would enable me to cure my condition without too much trouble. 

 

20 years later, after trying hundreds if not thousands of different supplements and drugs, I still have not found the cure, and I realise it's a lot harder to fix these diseases than I originally thought. 

 

 

Perhaps the strongest immune booster for viruses is a herbal extract called oxymatrine. This comes from the Sophora root herb. A very small percentage of ME/CFS patients are lucky enough to be cured using oxymatrine, but unfortunately this herbal extract did not work for me. 

 

I have also tried various medicinal mushrooms like reishi, cordyceps, lion's mane, chaga mushroom, but without seeing much benefit. I inhabit many ME/CFS forums, so I also read what other patients are trying, the different supplements and drugs that ME/CFS patients experiment with. But few patients are able to make much improvement to their health level. ME/CFS is a real beast to treat.

 

But I have been much more successful in treating the depression and anxiety symptoms that came along with my ME/CFS. I found both good drugs and good supplements which are effective for depression and anxiety.

Edited by Hip, 05 March 2024 - 06:44 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

Sorry to hear about the ME/CFS still being largely unresolved medical condition.

 

But I have been much more successful in treating the depression and anxiety symptoms that came along with my ME/CFS. I found both good drugs and good supplements which are effective for depression and anxiety.

 

Which anxiety meds/supps have you found effective? I've still yet to try the three supplement (NAG, flaxseed oil, turmeric) protocol you suggested, mostly because my supplement budget is quite low at the moment so I've had to narrow things down to supplements that consistently work for me - which yet don't completely get me rid of anxiety so I remain open-minded to new strategies.

[Hip]

Which anxiety meds/supps have you found effective? I've still yet to try the three supplement (NAG, flaxseed oil, turmeric) protocol you suggested, mostly because my supplement budget is quite low at the moment so I've had to narrow things down to supplements that consistently work for me - which yet don't completely get me rid of anxiety so I remain open-minded to new strategies.

 

N-acetyl glucosamine (NAG) was miraculous for me (flaxseed oil and turmeric only provide minor anti-anxiety effects in comparison). I had moderate to severe generalised anxiety disorder for many years, and was trying everything in a desperate attempt to reduce anxiety.

 

Just by chance I bought some NAG not for anxiety, but to see if it would improve my IBS, since NAG is beneficial for the intestinal lining. It was then that by accident, I discovered NAG dramatically reduced my anxiety levels. Lots of other ME/CFS patients who tried NAG also found it had miraculous effects on their anxiety.

 

I began with the Jarrow brand NAG supplement, but you can get NAG more cheaply if you buy as a bulk powder, at sellers like this one. 

 

 

If you have mild chronic nasal or sinus congestion/inflammation like I do, I find this can cause anxiety by increasing brain inflammation I believe. And I have found a pretty effective anti-anxiety treatment is to place your face in a face steamer for 5 or 10 minutes, and breathe in warm steam through the nose. Face steamers cost about $30, and are intended to improve facial skin and complexion. But I found the warm steam soothes my nasal congestion, and rapidly (within 15 minutes) substantially lowers anxiety levels.

 

 

When I am having a bad anxiety attack day, with high anxiety levels, I usually take the following anti-anxiety supplements (with the most powerful towards the top of the list):

 

N-acetyl glucosamine 1000 mg 

Face steamer 

Taurine 4 grams (this can only be used for one or two days, as you get a tolerance build up to taurine)

Citrulline malate 3 grams 

Turmeric 2 grams 

Flaxseed oil 15 ml 

Vitamin A 20,000 IU

 

I may not take all of these; it depends how bad the anxiety is. If it is very bad, then I will usually take all of them, and some other treatments too, such as placing a saturated magnesium sulphate solution on my skin from head to toe (you get a high dose of magnesium this way, absorbed via the skin, which is calming for the brain; you cannot take high doses of magnesium orally as it will cause diarrhoea).

 

The full list of supplements I found effective for generalised anxiety disorder are listed in the second post of my thread here.

Edited by Hip, 05 March 2024 - 04:46 PM.

[Hip]

I also found that an anti-cytomegalovirus protocol would prevent anxiety manifesting in the first place, if you take the protocol every day. Unfortunately the protocol contains a lot of supplements, so it is tedious to take daily, and also expensive. 

 

This is my anti-cytomegalovirus protocol:

 

Cytomegalovirus antiviral protocol: 

Monolaurin 3 grams (ref: here)

Chlorella 1 gram (ref: here)

 

Natural killer cell activation boosters:   

Siberian ginseng 5 grams 

Lycopene 10 mg 

Echinacea 2000 mg 

Reishi 500 mg 

Germanium sesquioxide 100 mg 

 

Monolaurin and chlorella are supplements with mild antiviral effects for cytomegalovirus in vivo. 

 

Natural killer (NK) cell boosters are effective for cytomegalovirus, as it is known that NK cell functioning is important in order to keep cytomegalovirus subdued in the body. Many supplements are able to boost NK activity, I listed some of those supplements here.  

Edited by Hip, 05 March 2024 - 04:47 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

How long have you had high cytomegalovirus antibody titres?  When do you believe you were first infected?

[Hip]

How long have you had high cytomegalovirus antibody titres?  When do you believe you were first infected?

 

I am not sure when I was first infected with cytomegalovirus. It is a very common virus in the adult population, so I could have been infected at any time in the past, even in my teenage years or 20s. 

 

I first tested positive for cytomegalovirus, with these super high IgG titres, in 2008. And later again in another CMV test in 2018, I also had super high titres. In both cases, my IgG antibody titres were around 32 times the lab reference for negative, which is very high. 

 

If you are just slightly above the lab reference value, that indicates a past infection which is now dormant; but if you have chronically super high IgG titres to a virus (say more that 16 times the lab reference for negative), then to an ME/CFS doctor, that suggests an ongoing active viral infection in your body tissues somewhere (although this interpretation is controversial, as regular infectious disease specialists do take notice of super high IgG titres; ID doctors believe even super high antibody titres are just indicative of past and now dormant infection).

 

The virus which triggered my ME/CFS was Coxsackie B4 virus, which I caught in 2003. I also have ongoing super high IgG titres to this virus.

 

I suspect I may have had cytomegalovirus long before 2003, and it was only immunosuppression from Coxsackie B4 virus that allowed this existing cytomegalovirus in my body to reactivate. But I cannot know for sure. The only thing I know for sure was that I tested with super-high titres to CMV in 2008.

 

 

Many ME/CFS patients have one or more viruses with super-high antibody titres on a chronic basis. So my situation with these very high titres is quite normal for ME/CFS.

 

But most healthy members of the public will not have such super-high titres. 

Edited by Hip, 05 March 2024 - 09:50 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

How do you know for sure it was Coxsackie B4 that caused your ME/CFS? Could it not be the cytomegalovirus or some other culprit?

[Hip]

How do you know for sure it was Coxsackie B4 that caused your ME/CFS? Could it not be the cytomegalovirus or some other culprit?

 

I cannot be 100% certain, but several lines of evidence provide a very good fit for coxsackievirus B4. The evidence is this:

 

➤ The acute infection symptoms of my virus, a herpangina-type sore throat, are usually caused by coxsackievirus A, coxsackievirus B or echovirus (these are all part of the enterovirus genus). So to begin with, I suspected these viruses.

 

➤ The incubation period of my virus was fast (less than 24 hours from first exposure to the first symptoms appearing). Coxsackie and echovirus can incubate this fast, but most other viruses are much slower, including cytomegalovirus, which has an incubation period of 3 to 12 weeks.

 

➤ My virus triggered ME/CFS, and there are only a limited number of viruses that have been associated with ME/CFS in studies, and these are mainly: coxsackievirus B, echovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, HHV-6, varicella zoster virus and parvovirus B19.

 

➤ One person who caught my virus from me developed Sjogren's syndrome soon after, and this is linked to coxsackievirus B4 in studies. 

 

➤ Another person who caught my virus developed type 1 diabetes some years later, and this is linked to coxsackievirus B4 mainly in studies. 

 

➤ Many years after the acute infection was over, I took an antibody blood for coxsackievirus B1 to B6, using the highly sensitive neutralisation method, and my titres to coxsackievirus B4 were extremely high, 1:1024. 

 

➤ Several people who caught my virus were soon hit with sudden heart attacks involving chronic myocarditis. Well coxsackievirus B is a very common cause of chronic myocarditis, and coxsackievirus B and other enteroviruses have been linked to sudden heart attacks in otherwise healthy people.

 

➤ Enterovirus ME/CFS expert Dr John Chia actually very kindly read my website about my virus, and he told me by email that my symptoms are classic enterovirus symptoms. Elsewhere Dr Chia stated that in his enterovirus ME/CFS patients, active infections with coxsackievirus B3 or B4 are the most common. Less frequently, he finds coxsackievirus B2, echoviruses 6, 7 and 9.

Edited by Hip, 06 March 2024 - 03:35 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

 

N-acetyl glucosamine (NAG) was miraculous for me (flaxseed oil and turmeric only provide minor anti-anxiety effects in comparison). I had moderate to severe generalised anxiety disorder for many years, and was trying everything in a desperate attempt to reduce anxiety.

 

Just by chance I bought some NAG not for anxiety, but to see if it would improve my IBS, since NAG is beneficial for the intestinal lining. It was then that by accident, I discovered NAG dramatically reduced my anxiety levels. Lots of other ME/CFS patients who tried NAG also found it had miraculous effects on their anxiety.

 

I began with the Jarrow brand NAG supplement, but you can get NAG more cheaply if you buy as a bulk powder, at sellers like this one. 

 

 

If you have mild chronic nasal or sinus congestion/inflammation like I do, I find this can cause anxiety by increasing brain inflammation I believe. And I have found a pretty effective anti-anxiety treatment is to place your face in a face steamer for 5 or 10 minutes, and breathe in warm steam through the nose. Face steamers cost about $30, and are intended to improve facial skin and complexion. But I found the warm steam soothes my nasal congestion, and rapidly (within 15 minutes) substantially lowers anxiety levels.

 

 

When I am having a bad anxiety attack day, with high anxiety levels, I usually take the following anti-anxiety supplements (with the most powerful towards the top of the list):

 

N-acetyl glucosamine 1000 mg 

Face steamer 

Taurine 4 grams (this can only be used for one or two days, as you get a tolerance build up to taurine)

Citrulline malate 3 grams 

Turmeric 2 grams 

Flaxseed oil 15 ml 

Vitamin A 20,000 IU

 

I may not take all of these; it depends how bad the anxiety is. If it is very bad, then I will usually take all of them, and some other treatments too, such as placing a saturated magnesium sulphate solution on my skin from head to toe (you get a high dose of magnesium this way, absorbed via the skin, which is calming for the brain; you cannot take high doses of magnesium orally as it will cause diarrhoea).

 

The full list of supplements I found effective for generalised anxiety disorder are listed in the second post of my thread here.

 

 

I'll put NAG on top of my list of things to try, I found a Finnish online store selling it for €24.90 / 200 grams so a bit more expensive than Bulksupplements but I like to support these local companies. 

 

I do have mild chronic nasal congestion but I've attributed it to allergies or something. My leukocytes are also chronically a bit above the range and despite being in my 30s I still have some acne, mostly on my back and the back of the neck. Even Accutane didn't do anything for my bacne. So these indicate there is some chronic inflammatory state going on. I have found dual-extracted Reishi to help both my skin issues and anxiety.

[davidmike07123]

Emerging research suggests that Cytomegalovirus (CMV), a common virus, might be linked to mental health issues. Studies indicate that CMV infections could potentially contribute to conditions like depression and anxiety. This connection highlights the importance of further investigation into the role of viral infections in mental health, opening new avenues for understanding and treating these conditions.

 

[gamesguru]

Yeah, Toxoplasmosis is another scary one. Luckily, I'm allergic to and stay far away from cats. Don't think I've had mono or CMV, but I tend to recover quickly, so I could have missed it.

 

 

Did a quick search based on some intuitions and am dropping these studies for a laugh. Flavonoids have potent effects on the immune system (sometimes in indirect ways). On the plus side, Quercetin is superb for allergies. Anything that gets into our system and causes a chronic infection could cause chronic inflammation (HIV, Lyme disease, CMV, Herpes). As much as 8% of the human genome is "endogenous" virus (built up over the years but largely inactive in our DNA). If we can't rid ourselves of them, we better start devising strategies to mitigate and corral them.

 

 

Antiviral Activities of Quercetin and Isoquercitrin Against Human Herpesviruses | Molecules | Free Full-Text

https://www.mdpi.com...3049/25/10/2379

 

Intake of 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone During Juvenile and Adolescent Stages Prevents Onset of Psychosis in Adult Offspring After Maternal Immune Activation | Scientific Reports

https://www.nature.c...icles/srep36087

 

Virus-inhibiting activity of dihydroquercetin, a flavonoid from Larix sibirica, against coxsackievirus B4 in a model of viral pancreatitis - PubMed

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/26780775/