21 replies to this topic

[Galaxyshock]

Plenty of good debates going on in this sub-forum, but I feel that since the pandemic is essentially over, we need to have own thread for critical and objective look that summarizes what was done right and what was done wrong in response to COVID-19 and also about the effects on longevity. Humanity will face new pandemics, it's unavoidable, and would be foolish to not learn things from our latest widespread health crisis. How do we ensure our longevity in new such risk scenarios?

 

To anyone wondering about the net effect of the pandemic, a new study finds COVID-19 lowered life expectancy by 1.6 years worldwide:

 

Global age-sex-specific mortality, life expectancy, and population estimates in 204 countries and territories and 811 subnational locations, 1950–2021, and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic: a comprehensive demographic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2021

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Hindsight is 20/20, so I'll cut the world a little slack & say I understand there is going to be chaos & confusion during the early days of a viral pandemic.  

 

Brief lock-downs and social distancing while the world comes to grips with what is going on are understandable.  Mask mandates were a bit hysterical, but what the heck, give them a try for a month or so to see if the Hail Mary tactics might help, even if only minimally effective.  

 

What I can't forgive, and what must change, is the restriction on treatments.  We saw right away lungs were clotting off.  Do we know of anything that inhibits clotting that isn't too dangerous?  Oh heck yeah...  ASPIRIN!  Did they recommend we take it for a few days if we fell I'll?  NOPE!  I'm not saying I know this would have worked...  I'm saying WE SHOULD HAVE TRIED!  

 

We've known BOTH Vitamin-D & Zinc are essential to proper immune function, and deficiencies of both are quite common.  Diabetes, kidney disease, blood pressure meds and diuretics given for heart disease are all known to deplete zinc, and the conditions that deplete this essential mineral are notorious for severe COVID.  Would it have killed that many people to recommend we supplement these essential nutrients until pharmaceuticals were found, or vaccines distributed?  NOPE!  Did they do this?  NOPE!  

 

We've seen cytokine storms associated with respiratory virus for decades now, and we know how to treat them.  STEROIDS!  Problem is, you've got to treat promptly.  Cytokine storms are like forest fires.  Fairly easy to manage when caught early, but let them rage out of control, and they will be just that...  Out of control!  Putting everyone who contracts the virus on Big Guns steroids would certainly be problematic in a pandemic, but we do have some kinder/gentler immune modulating drugs we know to be quite benign for short duration therapy. 70 million doses of HCQ were swiftly procured, but wound up languishing in stockpile, as government regulators froze like deer in headlights. There is even a localized inhaled steroid (budesonide) that can be applied directly to lung tissue for fast, short duration therapy.  

 

SARS-CoV-2 wasn't our first run-in with SARS coronavirus, and research done after previous SARS / MERS coronavirus identified the chloroquine family of drugs as our go-to therapeutic, to try in the event of a future SARS coronavirus pandemic.  Front line doctors, frantically treating patients at ground zero pandemic hot spots confirmed these meds were working.  What happened next?  Who could believe any and all outpatient treatment would be FRANTICALLY SUPPRESSED, and patients told to "isolate at home until they turned blue", whereupon they would be ambulanced off to a ventilator and remdesivir which would put them out of their misery.  Outrageous! 

 

Someone should be hanging by their heels in the town square till their bones have been pecked clean by crows!  

 

We had "Right to Try" laws on the books, that should have facilitated a doctors right to prescribe, and a patient's right to try any or all of these, yet nothing was recommended for two long years, while frightened seniors died alone and afraid, in complete isolation.  Even a placebo can be comforting to those in desperate situations.  Don't just shake your head and slam the door in their faces.  

 

If we've learned anything from this debacle, it must be you've got to let doctors treat patients, and try a few things, rather than wait YEARS for solutions from Big Pharma. Nuremberg style tribunals should be held, and examples made of those who threw sand in the treatment gears.  

 

Nevermore should plague victims be abandoned to fend for themselves for YEARS at a time!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 14 March 2024 - 04:58 PM.

[Mind]

The COVID "panic" policies were an unmitigated disaster that did nothing to prevent the spread of the disease. The total (and ongoing) failure is well documented in this thread.

[Galaxyshock]

What would be your exact arsenal against respiratory viral infection when it comes to different therapeutic drugs, Dorian Grey?

 

Maintaining healthy Vitamin D levels seems like a must these days, and Zinc is truly a cheap essential mineral with impressive benefits on immunofunction. I'd probably add some Magnesium to the mix too. Of prophylactics, I think Echinacea is underrated, I have had my doubts about it too but research shows if any herbal remedy can protect from cold viruses, it's Echinacea. My personal experience was that I started taking Echinacea extract as soon as the pandemic hit and continued for over two years and did not get sick during that time while people around me did. This is of course just an anecdote but also firsthand experience.

 

 

The COVID "panic" policies were an unmitigated disaster that did nothing to prevent the spread of the disease. The total (and ongoing) failure is well documented in this thread.

 

In Finland they isolated the whole Helsinki metropolitan area from other parts of the country to slow down the spread of COVID back in Spring 2020. Was perhaps an overkill in such sparsely populated country looking back. That thread while very informative is 30 pages long, so some kind of a summary of the failed policies would be good. I think that in this thread we could wrap up different aspects of the pandemic, so we can learn and be prepared if and when the next similar pandemic hits. 

[Florin]

Biggest failures:

• Too slow to realize that transmission is almost entirely airborne (including for any fast-spreading pandemic)
• The use of lockdowns and other NPIs instead of respirators

Biggest success: vaccines

Guaranteed-to-work strategies for any fast-spreading pandemic:

• Virus monitoring system (to detect asymptomatic disease before it spreads too much)
• Respirators
• Physical distancing via complete automation and virtual reality

Edited by Florin, 15 March 2024 - 04:26 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

Good stance Florin, I would indeed like to see us reach some decent level of consensus on the effects of the following:

 

Policy measures

Masks

Vaccines

Medications

Supplements

(feel free to add more)

 

What were effective, what would be considered unclear and what proved to be ineffective.

 

Of course it's quite difficult to make objective conclusions, some debates will probably go on forever as the pandemic was quite a mess, but I think there are enough smart minds here to reach a level of consensus and prepare some guidelines to future pandemics like what medications/supplements to have in case and whether to wear a mask or not etc.

 

Well I now realize this topic could be too widescale to keep from not turning to more of a mess than the pandemic, but perhaps we can keep it simple?

[Galaxyshock]

Or we can of course keep the discussion informal, I just had the idea that I could eventually edit the original post and add a summary of our conclusions. It would be good for getting the big picture, especially to newcomers. I'm a bit all over the place these days, too much coffee and too little sleep  .

 

Edit: So I could make a list of things to do in response to a fast-spreading pandemic, based on what was learned from the COVID-19, something like this:

 

What can be done:

• Therapeutic medications: Hydroxychloroquine
• Supplements: Vitamin D, Zinc and Magnesium
• Virus monitoring systems
• Respirators
• Physical distancing
• Vaccines

 

What remains unclear:

• - 

 

What shouldn't be done:

• Lock-downs
• Restriction on treatments

 

We can add, remove or move things to different categories based on the evidence base and how discussions go in this and other threads. What do you guys think? The finalized list would then be added to the original post by a moderator.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 15 March 2024 - 08:04 AM.

[pamojja]

.. a summary of our conclusions.

 

My summary is short:

 

As was already seen at the very beginning at the lab-conditions of the Diamond Princess: covid was rather like the flu - so that almost any home remedy, common sense in lifestyles, or simply not being near life-expectancy was protective.

 

On the Diamond Princess, under worst crowded quarantine conditions for 3711 persons, 712 became infected with the virus, 331 remained symptom-free, none died from the younger crew, but still on board 7 passengers died only (at about 78 median age), which is about 1-2% of infected in a most vulnerable population. Some less propagandized flu-seasons have much higher mortality rates, definitely in that age-group.
 

Since I already changed lifestyle and supplemented comprehensively due to chronic conditions long ago, I didn't suffer from Covid even once. While those around me without (relatives and working place), but with a not long-term tested experimental vaccine, almost all suffered from it. Multiple times even, and a few from LC (2 out of 30 co-workers. None of as many relatives, more of the vulnerable population).

 

The only black-swans are my father (age 80) and brother. Former vaccinated twice - though also taking 5000 IU vitamin D, some K2 and vitamin C - the later middle age, but with bad diet and no supplementation. Both remained without Covid, too.

 

 

Doing nothing until the face turns blue, and then being ventilated only, was clearly the worse possible approach. No public outcry for years against letting the elderly die isolated because of such a harmless bug - shows the lack of any ethics, humanity suffers from.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 15 March 2024 - 11:56 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

My summary is short:

 

As was already seen at the very beginning at the lab-conditions of the Diamond Princess: covid was rather like the flu - so that almost any home remedy, common sense in lifestyles, or simply not being near life-expectancy was protective.

 

On the Diamond Princess, under worst crowded quarantine conditions for 3711 persons, 712 became infected with the virus, 331 remained symptom-free, none died from the younger crew, but still on board 7 passengers died only (at about 78 median age), which is about 1-2% of infected in a most vulnerable population. Some less propagandized flu-seasons have much higher mortality rates, definitely in that age-group.
 

Since I already changed lifestyle and supplemented comprehensively due to chronic conditions long ago, I didn't suffer from Covid even once. While those around me without (relatives and working place), but with a not long-term tested experimental vaccine, almost all suffered from it. Multiple times even, and a few from LC (2 out of 30 co-workers. None of as many relatives, more of the vulnerable population).

 

The only black-swans are my father (age 80) and brother. Former vaccinated twice - though also taking 5000 IU vitamin D, some K2 and vitamin C - the later middle age, but with bad diet and no supplementation. Both remained without Covid, too.

 

Doing nothing until the face turns blue, and then being ventilated only, was clearly the worse possible approach. No public outcry for years against letting the elderly die isolated because of such a harmless bug - shows the lack of any ethics, humanity suffers from.

 

Good pickings, hadn't heard of the case of the Diamond Princess for some reason. It does appear to tell us what happens in a restricted area with COVID-19 amongst people of different ages, thus indicating what can and probably did happen in larger areas. I'll have to take a deeper look into it. Firsthand experiences are also welcomed!

 

Quality of care has definitely been put into question in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. It seems the elderly were put into isolation and silenced with increased amount of major tranquilizers.

[pamojja]

Quality of care has definitely been put into question in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

Nothing happens without context. Care had to be denied, for making an emergency authorization of an experimental vaccine possible. Which was the life-raft for the pharmaceutical industries, which are running out of profitable patents.

 

How convenient that probably sponsored gain of function research delivered. And what a short respite for humanity, AI obviously hasn't invented something much more deathly yet, than this harmless chimera.
 

But all too obviously, with the wide-spread lack of ethics and straight logic, exactly that will happen soon. Beside the horrors of wars, hyperinflation, etc..

 

 

..so we can learn and be prepared if and when the next similar pandemic hits. 

 

Be content and happy with what you have and are. If still not, make peace with yourself. One can try to be healthy, but there are so many adversarial opportunities for much worse calamities. The best would be to die content, and while trying to survive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 15 March 2024 - 01:18 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

"What would be your exact arsenal against respiratory viral infection when it comes to different therapeutic drugs, Dorian Grey?"

 

I became a disciple of Dr Zelenko early on, as I was a front line healthcare worker (surgical tech) for 35 years, & I tend to trust the front lines over the government boffins.  I jumped through the hoops (learned to use bitcoin & overseas pharmacies) and got me some HCQ from Ipca labs India.  When I first got COVID in January 22, my wife had contracted it several days earlier, so I got a head start with the HCQ (+ zinc) before I even became symptomatic.  I was shocked at how benign my experience was, & I documented it here: 

 

https://www.longecit...a-ma-my-corona/

 

Relaxing my COVID precautions after this, I started travelling a bit, taking my HCQ prophylactically off & on depending on risk.  I was a bit concerned about the long half life (around a month) and having some HCQ in my bodkin at all times, when I came upon a revelation HCQ may not be as good a zinc ionophore as old school chloroquine.  I detailed this here: 

 

https://www.longecit...inc-ionophores/

 

I decided to try old school quinine as a potentially superior organic form chloroquine ionophore, & also got some of the ionic zinc acetate lozenges for topical use.  I really think it's vital to use ample doses of the best ionophore, and ample amounts of zinc, both systemically and topically during the earliest hours of infection (day 1, 2 & 3) for best results. 

 

My new protocol got put to the test in September of '23, with my second 'round with COVID, no vaccines since November of '21, and no infection since January of '22, so almost a COIVID virgin again.  I missed my first day of symptoms, as it presented as a scratchy throat, rather than a blocked nose, but tested positive and hit it with everything I had on day 2.  

 

Had a low grade fever of 101 for 2 days, which was actually rather distressing.  Was my new protocol a wrong turn?  Woke up day 4 feeling bright as a button again.  Fever gone, & scratchy throat resolved, though I did seem to have a bit of residual goo in my sinuses.  I had taken 2, 300mg quinine tabs, with 2, 50mg zinc sulfate per day for 2 days, along with the zinc acetate lozenges several times per day.  Decided to punt & coast on the meds, & went on with life.  Hardest part now was resisting the urge to go to the pub for lunch!  

 

Grand total of 4 quinine pills, 4 zinc sulfates, and half a dozen zinc acetate lozenges & I was back in the pink. Around this time I noticed an article in MedScape regarding a study that showed Molnupiravir shortened the duration of symptoms from 15 down to 9 days... 

 

https://www.medscape...warticle/996580

 

Oh-ho-ho!  Are people really sick with omicron for 2 weeks?  Sorry but zinc + ionophore is my protocol from here on out.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 15 March 2024 - 04:51 PM.

[Florin]

Good stance Florin, I would indeed like to see us reach some decent level of consensus on the effects of the following:

 

Policy measures

Masks

Vaccines

Medications

Supplements

(feel free to add more)

 

What were effective, what would be considered unclear and what proved to be ineffective.

 

Of course it's quite difficult to make objective conclusions, some debates will probably go on forever as the pandemic was quite a mess, but I think there are enough smart minds here to reach a level of consensus and prepare some guidelines to future pandemics like what medications/supplements to have in case and whether to wear a mask or not etc.

 

Well I now realize this topic could be too widescale to keep from not turning to more of a mess than the pandemic, but perhaps we can keep it simple?

 

 

Or we can of course keep the discussion informal, I just had the idea that I could eventually edit the original post and add a summary of our conclusions. It would be good for getting the big picture, especially to newcomers. I'm a bit all over the place these days, too much coffee and too little sleep  .

 

Edit: So I could make a list of things to do in response to a fast-spreading pandemic, based on what was learned from the COVID-19, something like this:

 

What can be done:

• Therapeutic medications: Hydroxychloroquine
• Supplements: Vitamin D, Zinc and Magnesium
• Virus monitoring systems
• Respirators
• Physical distancing
• Vaccines

 

What remains unclear:

• - 

 

What shouldn't be done:

• Lock-downs
• Restriction on treatments

 

We can add, remove or move things to different categories based on the evidence base and how discussions go in this and other threads. What do you guys think? The finalized list would then be added to the original post by a moderator.

 

 

This would be my list for future pandemics (especially, if they'd have the potential to cause high mortality).

 

What will work:

• Virus monitoring systems
• Respirators
• Physical distancing

What remains unclear (may or may not work):

• Diet and lifestyle
• Therapeutics (medications, supplements, vaccines)

What shouldn't be done:

• Involuntary NPIs (except if respirators are unavailable or impractical to wear in certain situations like when obtaining dental care or surgery)
• Restriction on treatments (if this doesn't cause shortages for proven uses)

Edited by Florin, 15 March 2024 - 07:25 PM.

[joesixpack]

My experience was similar, but I took a different route to get there.

 

I have followed the FLCCC Alliance protocols. The acronym stands for: Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance. So, a similar approach that Dorian used, following advice from front line Doctors. 

 

Their early Covid treatment protocol can be found here: https://covid19criti...ovid-treatment/

 

I was vaccinated along with my wife. I tested positive once and followed the protocol. I had obtained Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, and Azithromycin from an overseas pharmacy. I followed the protocol, used the first line therapeutics and the second line along with suggestions for variant versions of Covid, if I had the ingredients. 

 

I tested positive my first day of symptoms. I was symptom free on day 3. My wife never got sick. There are a number of protocols that cover Flu, RSV, Post Vaccine, and Long Covid treatment.

 

There are now available in the US websites that make the medications in the protocol available by prescription in emergency medical kits. Here is one of them: https://jasemedical.com/case

 

I suggest people keep such a case on hand in case access is denied to such medications, or they are otherwise unavailable.

 

Here is an idea of what the Early Care Covid Protocol is (less than 50% fair use):

 

 

• Ivermectin: 0.4 to 0.6 mg/kg – one dose daily for at least 5 days or until symptoms resolve.
  If symptoms persist longer than 5 days, consult a healthcare provider. See Table 1 for help with calculating correct dose. Due to a possible interaction between quercetin and ivermectin, these drugs should be staggered throughout the day (see Table 2). For COVID treatment, ivermectin is best taken with a meal or just following a meal, for greater absorption.

• Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ): 200 mg twice a day for 5 to 10 days.
  Best taken with zinc. HCQ may be taken in place of, or together with, ivermectin. While ivermectin should be avoided in pregnancy, the FDA considers HCQ safe in pregnancy. Given the pathway used by the Omicron variant to gain cell entry, HCQ may be the preferred drug for this variant.

• Mouthwash: 3 times a day.
  Gargle three times a day (do not swallow) with an antiseptic-antimicrobial mouthwash containing chlorhexidine, cetylpyridinium chloride; a combination of eucalyptus, menthol, and thymol; or 1% povidone-iodine. Some mouthwashes may contribute to temporary tooth staining in certain individuals. Discontinue use and try a different product if this problem arises.

• Nasal spray with 1% povidone-iodine: 2-3 times a day.
  Do not use for more than 5 days in pregnancy. If 1% product is not available, dilute the more widely available 10% solution (see box) and apply 4-5 drops to each nostril every 4 hours.

  • Pour 1 ½ tablespoons (25 ml) of 10% povidone-iodine solution into a 250 ml nasal irrigation bottle.
  • Fill bottle to top with distilled, sterile, or previously boiled water.
  • To use: tilt head back, apply 4-5 drops to each nostril. Keep head tilted for a few minutes, then let drain.

• Quercetin (or a mixed flavonoid supplement): 250-500 mg twice a day.
  Due to a possible interaction between quercetin and ivermectin, these drugs should not be taken simultaneously (i.e., should be staggered at different times of day.) As supplemental quercetin has poor solubility and low oral absorption, lecithin-based and nanoparticle formulations are preferred.

• Nigella sativa: If using seeds, take 80 mg/kg once a day (or 400 to 500 mg of encapsulated oil twice a day).

• Melatonin: 5-10 mg before bedtime (causes drowsiness).
  Slow- or extended-release formulations preferred.

• Curcumin (turmeric): 500 mg twice a day.
  Curcumin has low solubility in water and is poorly absorbed by the body; consequently, it is traditionally taken with full fat milk and black pepper, which enhance its absorption.

• Zinc: 75-100 mg daily.
  Take with HCQ. Zinc supplements come in various forms (e.g., zinc sulfate, zinc citrate and zinc gluconate).

• Probenecid: 1000 mg twice daily for 5 days. 
  Probenecid is an FDA-approved drug with a well-documented (>7 decades) safety profile for treating gout and hypertension. (56) It is a nonspecific inhibitor of organic acid transporters and has been demonstrated to be effective in limiting influenza, SARS-CoV-2, and RSV replication. (56-60) In a randomized, placebo controlled, single-blind, study in non-hospitalized patients with symptomatic mild-to-moderate COVID-19, probenecid 1000 mg twice daily for 5 days
  reduced the median time to viral clearance (7 days vs. 11 days, p < 0.0001). (55) Furthermore, on day 10 a greater proportion of patients receiving probenecid reported complete resolution of symptoms compared to placebo (68% vs. 20%, respectively; p =0.0006).

• Aspirin: 325 mg daily (unless contraindicated).

• Kefir and/or Bifidobacterium Probiotics.
  NOTE: Depending on the brand, these products can be very high in sugar, which promotes inflammation. Look for brands without added sugar or fruit jellies and choose products with more than one strain of lactobacillus and bifidobacteria. Try to choose probiotics that are also gluten-free, casein-free and soy-free.

• Vitamin C: 500-1000 mg twice a day.

• Metformin: 500 mg on day 1, 500 mg twice daily on days 2 through 5, then 500 mg in the morning and 1000 mg in the evening up to day 14.

• Home pulse oximeter
  Monitoring of oxygen saturation is recommended in symptomatic patients, due to asymptomatic hypoxia. Take multiple readings over the course of the day and regard any downward trend as ominous. Baseline or ambulatory desaturation under 94% should prompt consultation with primary or telehealth provider, or evaluation in an emergency room. (See box for further guidance.)

  • Only accept values associated with a strong pulse signal
  • Observe readings for 30–60 seconds to identify the most common value
  • Warm up extremities prior to taking a measurement
  • Use the middle or ring finger
  • Remove nail polish from the finger on which measurements are made

Second Line Therapies

(In order of priority/importance.)

Add to first line therapies above if: 1) more than 5 days of symptoms; 2) poor response to first line agents; 3) significant comorbidities).

• Nitazoxanide (NTZ): 500 mg twice a day for 5 days.

• Vitamin D3: For patients with acute COVID-19 infection, calcifediol as dosed in table below is suggested.

• Lactoferrin: 100-400 mg daily

• Diphenhydramine (Benadryl): 25-50 mg every 6 hours

• B complex vitamins.

• Fluvoxamine: 25-50 mg twice a day for 1 week.
  NOTE: Due to serious risks of acute anxiety that may progress to mania or suicidal/violent behavior, this drug should not be prescribed for COVID for longer than two weeks.

• N-acetyl cysteine (NAC): 600-1200 mg orally twice a day.

• Omega-3 fatty acids: 4 g daily.
  Vascepa (Ethyl eicosapentaenoic acid); Lovaza (EPA/DHA); or alternative DHA/EPA. Vascepa and Lovaza tablets must be swallowed and cannot be crushed, dissolved, or chewed.

 

 

 

Edited by joesixpack, 15 March 2024 - 08:08 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

Sounds like very effective protocol based on your firsthand experience, Dorian Grey.

 

Very informative and extensive list of therapeutics, joesixpack. What would be considered the big guns? Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc?

 

What remains unclear (may or may not work):

• Diet and lifestyle
• Therapeutics (medications, supplements, vaccines)

 

I think I agree with vaccines being put in the unclear category. They are a slow response to a fast-spreading pandemic, and still need to be rushed without enough safety data. I think prophylactics like Echinacea belong to the same category of unsure effect.

 

 

What will work:

• Virus monitoring systems

 

These I am curious about, couldn't find much information with a quick google search. Could you give us a short overview what they can do in response to a virus pandemic?

[Mind]

The wholesale rejection of solid science, bioethics, and RCT evidence during the COVID panic was a big failure. Instead we got politicized authoritarianism which failed everyone. The bureaucrats who lied and hid/manipulated evidence (still ongoing) need to be removed, fired, and in some cases criminally prosecuted. You can talk all you want about "protocols", but what good is that if you are forbidden from using them during the next viral panic. Some people forget how awful it was during the COVID panic. Doctors were being fired and jailed for trying different "protocols". People were threatened, harassed, belittled etc... for not taking the COVID injection. People (even a few in this forum) were filled with vein-popping rage at those who rationally argued against masking, isolation, and the COVID injections. People were openly calling for the unvaccinated to be forcefully sent to quarantine camps, to be re-educated, for their kids to be taken away. At least one former governor was saying "f#*k your freedom!!".

 

If we can't figure out how seemingly normal people were so easily manipulated to spew hatred upon their fellow human, then this discussion will be in vain.

[Florin]

These I am curious about, couldn't find much information with a quick google search. Could you give us a short overview what they can do in response to a virus pandemic?

 

A surveillance system able to detect novel respiratory viruses of pandemic potential would be needed in order to prevent the spread of asymptomatic and long-incubation viruses. These systems would randomly test people and identify any novel viruses they carried. Without such systems in place, these sorts of viruses may quickly spread undetected across the entire world and then kill everyone without much warning. No one would have enough time to react before they died.

 

There are several surveillance systems already in place (like the IPSN), but I don't know if they look for novel viruses or do any follow-up once these viruses are found.

 

An exception to this scenario would be if a universal vaccine or antiviral was developed before these asymptomatic and long-incubation viruses started to spread, but it's unclear if those kinds of therapeutics can ever be developed.

Edited by Florin, 16 March 2024 - 06:32 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

The wholesale rejection of solid science, bioethics, and RCT evidence during the COVID panic was a big failure. Instead we got politicized authoritarianism which failed everyone. The bureaucrats who lied and hid/manipulated evidence (still ongoing) need to be removed, fired, and in some cases criminally prosecuted. You can talk all you want about "protocols", but what good is that if you are forbidden from using them during the next viral panic. Some people forget how awful it was during the COVID panic. Doctors were being fired and jailed for trying different "protocols". People were threatened, harassed, belittled etc... for not taking the COVID injection. People (even a few in this forum) were filled with vein-popping rage at those who rationally argued against masking, isolation, and the COVID injections. People were openly calling for the unvaccinated to be forcefully sent to quarantine camps, to be re-educated, for their kids to be taken away. At least one former governor was saying "f#*k your freedom!!".

 

If we can't figure out how seemingly normal people were so easily manipulated to spew hatred upon their fellow human, then this discussion will be in vain.

 

Alright I'll add it.

 

What shouldn't be done:

• Get hysterical

But seriously yeah, it seems in larger countries things got really out of hand. I didn't see such things in Finland, at least not the hatred. Part of the "aftermath" is indeed bringing up those that did more harm than good, didn't even think about that when starting this thread, so good point there.

[Galaxyshock]

Covid Taught Us a Lot. The CDC Now Wants Us to Forget It.

"The agency reportedly plans to tell people with Covid and other infections to isolate based on symptoms. Researchers say symptoms aren’t a good indicator of who’s contagious."

[joesixpack]

Covid Taught Us a Lot. The CDC Now Wants Us to Forget It.

"The agency reportedly plans to tell people with Covid and other infections to isolate based on symptoms. Researchers say symptoms aren’t a good indicator of who’s contagious."

 

Here is what I did.

 

I woke up with symptoms. I won't describe them, when you catch it, the symptoms are different then what you have experienced before in you life's illnesses. I immediately took a home test, it was positive. 

 

I called the Doctor's office and requested Paxlovid. 

 

The next day they told me they were "evaluating" my message and would get back. In the meantime I followed the FLCCC protocol.

 

The next day they told me they were sending in a prescription for Paxlovid, it would be ready tomorrow.

 

On day 4 the prescription was ready, but I was already much better on the Protocol. So I picked up the prescription, but did not use it.

 

I was symptom free on day three. And today they are telling people to go back to normal when symptoms are gone.

[Dorian Grey]

I had almost exactly the same experience.  Emailed my doc and told him I had tested positive this morning (day 2 of symptoms) & would like Paxlovid, & he emailed me back the NEXT DAY asking what the exact date was I first experienced symptoms & tested positive.  

 

Ahhh...  Yesterday was the XXth!  the timestamp on the email should have indicated this!  Finally got my Pax on day 4 around sunset.  It's still sitting in the medicine cabinet.  

[Florin]

Covid Taught Us a Lot. The CDC Now Wants Us to Forget It.

"The agency reportedly plans to tell people with Covid and other infections to isolate based on symptoms. Researchers say symptoms aren’t a good indicator of who’s contagious."

 

If you're concerned about infecting other people, you can wear a ventless respirator instead of isolating.

[Heisok]

Different outcome. They tested positive. Contacted the advice line, and the nurse forwarded the details. Dr. called back, and after their evaluation prescribed Paxlovid. The person processed the order on line. Paid $10 extra to get it delivered on the same day. Received the delivery. This all took less than 3 hours. The big "K" California HMO. Decided not to take as symptoms stayed minor.

 

Their housemate took 3 tests over several days, and did not test positive. Did not try to stay away from each other or wear masks in house.

 

 

Edited by Heisok, 19 March 2024 - 07:14 PM.