10 replies to this topic

[Galaxyshock]

What do you guys do to make time pass when you don't have work / school / important things to do? Are there some nootropics or something that make you more interested in things or increase general curiosity? I find it hard to get myself interested in things and often have to more or less force myself to do or try things. It's definitely part of anhedonia but at least the consummatory side has gotten better.

 

What this has to do with mental health is that boredom for me induces drug-seeking behavior and worsens anhedonia, kinda causes a downward spiral where I end up lying on couch staring at a wall or something. This then can increase anxiety too because I get frustrated.

 

So general tips to fight boredom, how to stay enthusiastic in this chaotic world. 

[pamojja]

Sorry that I don't know what could help. I'm the opposite, very enthusiastic. So I try everything possible to get bored as much as I can, for example during my yearly vacations. Does extents leisure times. And yes, I intentionally do stare at my breath, along with the presence or absence of feelings, each and every day. In other contexts, it's called 'mindfulness meditation'. And since I do have a back-problem, most of the time on a couch too.

 

 

make you more interested in things or increase general curiosity?... It's definitely part of anhedonia

 

While at that - observing feelings and motivations possibly equanimously  - paradoxical reactions still do occur. So that I perceive my everyday enthusiasm rather as boring. Maybe that would also work for you as a trick: Try to observe your anhedonia not as its usual mental construct, but how does that feel at every spot in and on your body, while trying to stay equanimous? Just as I at times get bored about my enthusiasm, you might get enthusiastic about facets of anhedonia never perceived before?

 

Of course, anhedonia as a concept implies no feelings at all. But have you ever tried how 'no feelings' do manifests as bodily sensations. Which are always present in anhedoia too..

 

 

[Hopeforhealing]

Reading books is fun. You could try video games, or going for walks outside as well.

[Galaxyshock]

Sorry that I don't know what could help. I'm the opposite, very enthusiastic. So I try everything possible to get bored as much as I can, for example during my yearly vacations. Does extents leisure times. And yes, I intentionally do stare at my breath, along with the presence or absence of feelings, each and every day. In other contexts, it's called 'mindfulness meditation'. And since I do have a back-problem, most of the time on a couch too.

 

 

While at that - observing feelings and motivations possibly equanimously  - paradoxical reactions still do occur. So that I perceive my everyday enthusiasm rather as boring. Maybe that would also work for you as a trick: Try to observe your anhedonia not as its usual mental construct, but how does that feel at every spot in and on your body, while trying to stay equanimous? Just as I at times get bored about my enthusiasm, you might get enthusiastic about facets of anhedonia never perceived before?

 

Of course, anhedonia as a concept implies no feelings at all. But have you ever tried how 'no feelings' do manifests as bodily sensations. Which are always present in anhedoia too..

 

In certain amounts boredom is fine for me, it's better than being anxious. But it's the "anhedonic boredom" that feels like I'm in a mental prison, there's sort of a void that sucks the life force out of me. You're right, mindfulness meditation can be a good tool. Actually, maybe I've been wrong "fighting" the boredom, and should learn some acceptance instead as it's kind of a battle that can't be won with anger or something. You raised good points. 

[Galaxyshock]

Reading books is fun. You could try video games, or going for walks outside as well.

 

I've never been much of a book reader, but it's something I think I could enjoy if I gave it a chance. I just have heavy lack of initiative. I sometimes play online free FPS game called Enlisted, it's pretty fun but again I tend to lose interest. I do take daily walks, those are helpful and makes me feel more at ease. 

Edited by Galaxyshock, 17 July 2024 - 10:28 AM.

[pamojja]

In certain amounts boredom is fine for me, it's better than being anxious. But it's the "anhedonic boredom" that feels like I'm in a mental prison, there's sort of a void that sucks the life force out of me. You're right, mindfulness meditation can be a good tool. Actually, maybe I've been wrong "fighting" the boredom, and should learn some acceptance instead as it's kind of a battle that can't be won with anger or something. You raised good points. 

 

You are so right. Acceptance of whatever comes up in mindfulness meditation is the main principle. But becomes only possible with training, by habituating to the fact, that whatever comes up, is changing very fast with acceptance.

 

However, the underlying crux is to get out of your head, If you're lingering only on the conceptual level trying to observe emotions without awareness of body-sensations: like anger, fear, depression, etc. it will seem eternal. A true mental prison. But at other levels of experience it's just pure energy, always modulating in reaction to internal and external stimuli.

 

What keep such difficult emotion eternal is the anger about the anger, the fear of the fear, or the depression about the depression. All merely based on conceptual assumptions. And obviously lacking acceptance, but like a perpetuum mobile, always recreating exactly more of the same.
 

 

..there's sort of a void that sucks the life force out of me.

 

Perfect staring point. How does it feel everywhere in and on your body, a void suckling life force out of - now a crucial experimental conceptual reframing - something you have, but aren't?

 

Notorious Anger then appears as if there is something in you which itself never was given your attention, and deeply suffering in itself. Then it becomes easier to encounter that something suffering in you with compassion, instead of digging up more anger on top of it.

 

I can't handle fear of fear too. But on the level of body sensations: high pulse, sweating, high blood pressure, grasping for air... - sort of something suffering within you again. Very easy to observe equanimously, the conceptual overdog seen though again. Many actually go and pay for a fitness studio, to experience exactly those body symptoms, also present with fear.

 

What is there not suffering, in something within you voiding its life force? Time to pay your deep and unfaltering attention.

 

Edited by pamojja, 17 July 2024 - 11:12 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

Perfect staring point. How does it feel everywhere in and on your body, a void suckling life force out of - now a crucial experimental conceptual reframing - something you have, but aren't?

 

Notorious Anger then appears as if there is something in you which itself never was given your attention, and deeply suffering in itself. Then it becomes easier to encounter that something suffering in you with compassion, instead of digging up more anger on top of it.

 

I can't handle fear of fear too. But on the level of body sensations: high pulse, sweating, high blood pressure, grasping for air... - sort of something suffering within you again. Very easy to observe equanimously, the conceptual overdog seen though again. Many actually go and pay for a fitness studio, to experience exactly those body symptoms, also present with fear.

 

What is there not suffering, in something within you voiding its life force? Time to pay your deep and unfaltering attention.

 

I feel some tension in my head, in my brain even, when the worse anhedonic states enter. This has gotten me to think there's something in fact wrong with my brain, and maybe there is, but no amount of researching neurotransmitters etc. has really gotten me out of it. Surely taking rewarding drugs or alcohol can sort of relieve things, but it's temporary and those lows tend to become even worse long term. So your approach seems definitely better, or at least a novel way to deal with the anhedonic boredom.

 

"something you have, but aren't?"

 

Yup, labeling myself anhedonic and thinking I'm some kind of a victim hasn't done any good  . The good thing about these anhedonic and extreme boredom states is that they usually don't last longer than a few hours. I guess it's the temporary nature of many mental states. Still, I'd prefer not feeling half a zombie daily even if I don't feel like that all the time. Time starts to pass very slowly in that state and it sometimes feels like mild torture. I need to have closer look to your advice and apply it. 

 

Some have speculated in anhedonia there is a chronic primal "freeze reaction" that has been usually caused by trauma or stress. But I don't know if there are methods to unprogram that freeze reaction?

 

I recently started taking Rhodiola, I find it decreases my anhedonia again so the boredom bothers me less as I find things more interesting and joyful. But I'm afraid tolerance will build at some point. But good thing is that these adaptogens don't leave me feeling worse when they stop working.

 

And yeah, finding new hobbies despite the lack of interest in everything is probably a good idea, push through the first steps and see what happens. I do go to outdoor gym few times a week and find it enjoyable, maybe I should apply the same discipline to some other hobby.

[pamojja]

I feel some tension in my head, in my brain even, when the worse anhedonic states enter. This has gotten me to think there's something in fact wrong with my brain, and maybe there is, but no amount of researching neurotransmitters etc. has really gotten me out of it. Surely taking rewarding drugs or alcohol can sort of relieve things, but it's temporary and those lows tend to become even worse long term. So your approach seems definitely better, or at least a novel way to deal with the anhedonic boredom.

 
Had a similar experience in my throat on the fourth day of a mindfulness retreat. The first 3 days are just preparatory, learning to stay with a sensation for 8 hours a day. Below my throat: no body sensations at all! Thought well, that must be how my repression of emotions, like fear or anger I never expressed, came about. And was sure that was so ingrained in me, it would take years to get past that blockage. Alas, already the next day a whole universe of body-sensation opened up.
 
The usual problem is, we learn only on retreat how to give such ephemeral stuff our deep and unfaltering attention. Or under the guidance of a very skilled Therapist (which is rare),
 

. The good thing about these anhedonic and extreme boredom states is that they usually don't last longer than a few hours. I guess it's the temporary nature of many mental states

 

Ups, then strict mindfulness-retreats are nothing for you. Usually such superficial emotions are just at the surface protecting us, with our low psychonautic resilience, to dive even deeper into terrible abysses present in every human. Sort of a self-protection. In there it could last days, not hours, of hell.

 

A rare phenomenon is first-timers going psychotic or suicidal on such first retreats. Which interestingly never happened to those, who went to more than one, 20, or 100 of such 10-day retreats.

 

Therefore, I would recommend finding something much more gentle. For example a focusing practitioner. Focusing works on the same principles, but much gentler, abridged to in average a 20 minutes session: https://focusing.org...e/what-focusing

 

Though with the short-time gentle setting I personally never reached the terrible abysses as in years of mindfulness practice during focusing training again, it is still very efficient to self-empower a client to handle more pressing issues. Than heaven or hell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 18 July 2024 - 09:58 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

Usually such superficial emotions are just at the surface protecting us, with our low psychonautic resilience, to dive even deeper into terrible abysses present in every human. Sort of a self-protection. In there it could last days, not hours, of hell.

 

I suspect my psychotic episodes were somewhat traumatizing. I am afraid of going "that route" again, diving to the deep end of human psyche. What happened to me I felt like a fall in the surreal limbo, to a nightmare where nothing is real and that is going to last forever. Reminds me of some of the scenes in the movie Inception (2010).

 

So perhaps these emptiness states of anhedonia and boredom are sort of a coping mechanism, unwillingness to face difficult things/trauma. "At least I'm not psychotic" is a thought that sometimes emerges.

 

Therefore, I would recommend finding something much more gentle.

 

I agree I should be cautious. I've managed to get my life quality in pretty good shape despite all the struggles of the past decade or so. Don't want to endanger that, but neither do I want to stop evolving. 

 

I'm in bit of a confused state at the moment though. I haven't set long term goals. Another things is that I haven't really had any dreams for a very long time because of anhedonia. I often hear what keeps people going is pursuing their dreams, so I feel sort of like an outsider. Last few years after graduating from Uni I've been sort of drifting, not really knowing what it is that I really want to do. I know that I have potential and that I am quite smart, but then again the years of struggling with mental health problems feels like a baggage that I drag along. It's about a time to let some things go?

[pamojja]

Excuse my enthusiasm ;-)
 

So perhaps these emptiness states of anhedonia and boredom are sort of a coping mechanism, unwillingness to face difficult things/trauma. "At least I'm not psychotic" is a thought that sometimes emerges.
 
I agree I should be cautious. I've managed to get my life quality in pretty good shape despite all the struggles of the past decade or so. Don't want to endanger that, but neither do I want to stop evolving. 

 
Since your bouts of anhedonia last only a few hours, day-long retreats are anyway out of question, so why not start with mindfulness practice at least in part of those few hours? In a more playful attempt, where others set a certain time of the day for practice. With such a superficial approach, you would not have to fear going in unmanageable depth.
 

I often hear what keeps people going is pursuing their dreams, so I feel sort of like an outsider.

See, I feel a real outsider, because I had the impression everyone around just pursuing what is given with socialization: build income and possessions (however one hates it), a family, social status, possible divorce again, get old, weak, possibly sick, and lose everything again.
 

It's about a time to let some things go?

 

Actually life always bring new unexpected things. So it's never not time to let go, especially of old conceptualized identities, and attend to the new.

 

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 19 July 2024 - 11:15 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

 

Excuse my enthusiasm ;-)
 

 
Since your bouts of anhedonia last only a few hours, day-long retreats are anyway out of question, so why not start with mindfulness practice at least in part of those few hours? In a more playful attempt, where others set a certain time of the day for practice. With such a superficial approach, you would not have to fear going in unmanageable depth.
 

See, I feel a real outsider, because I had the impression everyone around just pursuing what is given with socialization: build income and possessions (however one hates it), a family, social status, possible divorce again, get old, weak, possibly sick, and lose everything again.
 

 

Actually life always bring new unexpected things. So it's never not time to let go, especially of old conceptualized identities, and attend to the new.

 

No problem, you seem to have good insight. Nice to discuss these things. 

 

Yes my anhedonia has a fluctuating nature, a lot of the time I feel somewhat "normal" these days, emotionally flat to some extent but definitely more functional than years ago. But indeed I have those bouts where I feel worse, sort of blasts from the past when I was heavily anhedonic. I agree mindfulness practice seems like something to level them out, get through them without anger and angst of "why is this happening". So i'll start with the mindfulness, you're not the first one to recommend it to me.

 

I've definitely questioned what it is that I'm "supposed to pursue". But I then tend to have the tendency to start questiong everything so a lack of purpose arises, everything feels meaningless. Not sure why I have this tendency to go to the extremes, it has been kinda part of my personality though.

 

Change is refreshing, I've noticed unexpected things happening as I age, whether I like them or not - so it's better not to resist them.