11 replies to this topic

[sub7]

In this latest podcast Matt Kaberlien discusses the potential link between lithium and longevity and the connection seems to be based on fairly solid data (though not yet absolutely conclusive)
 

 

However, it is super frustrating to see that absolutely no mention is made of what might be a possible dose. Any idea at all what kinf of ballpark we are talking about? would you experiment with 3-5 mr or 100 mg of lithium per day? 

 

Thanks

[Mind]

I have used the life extension lithium product for a few years now. I started because of all the positive data, like you mentioned. This particular brand has 1000 mcg lithium orotate (once daily).

[sub7]

I have used the life extension lithium product for a few years now. I started because of all the positive data, like you mentioned. This particular brand has 1000 mcg lithium orotate (once daily).

 

Thanks a lot MIND

 

I am wondering if that dose is kept very low to err on the side of (extreme) caution, since Lithium is sometimes associated with kidney damage (of course this is likely at much much higher doses that are hundreds of times higher than the 1 mg you mention)

 

anyone else at all?

[pamojja]

anyone else at all?

 

I've got about 2.5 mg/d of Lithium, mainly from the high Mg mineral water Rogaska Donat Mg, in average for the last 16 years.

 

If you want a summary of science, of also unusual nutrients, usually Joe Cohen has it: https://selfhacked.c...rt_by=relevance

 

Tested my whole blood a couple of times for lithium. Normal range is 0.01 - 0.05 mg/l.

 

2012 - 0.05

2016 - 0,06

2018 - 0.11

2020 - 0.04

 

Optimal range is unknown. What I do know is that my higher than 'normal' levels at least didn't hinder my major remissions in 2017 (walking disability from PAD) and 2019 (PEMs from ME/CFS).

 

 

By the way, my kidney classified for chronic kidney disease stage 1 at least up to 2012. This year, my kidney markers had been best all those 16 years.

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 17 October 2024 - 04:17 PM.

[sub7]

 

 

 

By the way, my kidney classified for chronic kidney disease stage 1 at least up to 2012. This year, my kidney markers had been best all those 16 years.

 

If I understand correctly, you have been taking lithium from 2008. And you said that until 2012 your kidneys were diagnosed as having stage 1 kidney disease. 

 

now since 2012 to today, your kidney health improved (ether despite of or due lithium) 

but how about between 2008 and 2012? Had your kidney health changed during that particular 4 year span, which I believe is your fisrt 4 years on lithium....

 

thanks a ton for sharing  

[pamojja]

No diagnosis of CKD1 by an MD, but according to an online calculator, since the diagnosis of my main condition of PAD with walking disability16 years ago, until 2012 only. I have no kidney lab results from before 2008. Started with the mineral water with lithium in 2012 only. So absolutely no correlation to CKD, except the lack of lithium intake. Went up to 4.7 mg/d intake of Lithium from the water in the year 2017.

 

I've recorded all my intake of nutrients and lab result in spreadsheets, in such a long time there are large variations. Therefore, I only mentioned the average of the whole 16 years, even though - as in the case of lithium for the first 3 years - I didn't supplement.

 

 

 

 

[pamojja]

The CKD probably originated from the pain-treatment of a spondilodiscitis 24 years ago, where only up to 4.5 g/d of Ibuprofen alleviated the excruciating pain somewhat. Actually a suicidal dose of ibuprofen. But had no access to western medicine at that time. The good in the bad: All who I got to know later in life who experienced a spondilodiscitis with access to western medicine, got the spine mechanically fused and life-long morphine treatment against remaining pains. While for me, it was an 8-month episode only, with no requirement of painkillers afterward. Fused and healed by itself. But the kidney temporarily damaged thereby.

[sub7]

The CKD probably originated from the pain-treatment of a spondilodiscitis 24 years ago, where only up to 4.5 g/d of Ibuprofen alleviated the excruciating pain somewhat. Actually a suicidal dose of ibuprofen. But had no access to western medicine at that time. The good in the bad: All who I got to know later in life who experienced a spondilodiscitis with access to western medicine, got the spine mechanically fused and life-long morphine treatment against remaining pains. While for me, it was an 8-month episode only, with no requirement of painkillers afterward. Fused and healed by itself. But the kidney temporarily damaged thereby.

 

Oh Man

Must have been a terrible experience. Glad you dealt with it all so well and are here in good health today to share all of this with us. You are an inspiration

[pamojja]

Must have been a terrible experience. Glad you dealt with it all so well and are here in good health today to share all of this with us.

 

I appreciate. Quite ironic that these 8 month in the horizontal and in unheard of pains were at the center of the Buddhist paradigms in Bodhgaya (India): All compounded things are impermanent, therefore bound to give rise to suffering, and are non-self really. I was sort of prepared by having practiced in that tradition extensively for 5 years already. The speculation, that this might pass too, kept me aloof. And so it did after 8 months.

 

However, the real bill for all my tropical infections presented itself many years later, when innate immunity did a deep dive with older age: with PAD, COPD and ME/CFS. It took so much dedication and neglecting my so varied life-interests, I meanwhile understand everyone well, who surrenders to chronic diseases and let them take their course. But of course I'm glad I tried, to see the most improbable might still become possible under the right conditions.

[sub7]

"the most improbable might still become possible under the right conditions"
this undeniable fact of life should give everyone at least some spark of hope in the worst of times...

 

whoever is reading this and believes that he is at the point of no return: a chance -however small- always exists to prevail.

[pamojja]

You are an inspiration

 
Thought so too, therefore shared (I mean my unbelievable remissions, not myself).
 
What was mind-boggling however: despite reporting here in the forum, or collaborating a summary of my recoveries under the stacks section seven years ago, no-one ever reported back. Of having similar success with an all-encompassing approach (lifestyle changes: like diet, exposure to sun and sea or meditation.., comprehensive Orthomolecular supplementation and monitoring physiological changes with regular lab-tests, since often real health-improvement or worsening thereby can be premeditated long before they happen, at least with uncurable chronic diseases)
 
Also with friends and family in personal life: all really prefer the convenience of trusting in MDs, despite the literature of their interventions having miniscule results with chronic diseases. Mainly at postponing the worst outcomes, only an insignificant bid.
 
I think now, it's a combination of preconditions present in a patient, which makes it possible in rare cases only. Just came across this quote of a psychologist:
 
https://www.instagra...Ap/?img_index=1

@AdamMGrant

The attitude that helps most with intense stress in not mindfulness. It's hope.

In hard times, it's overwhelming to live only in the present. What brings strength is anticipating a brighter future.

Resilience lies in remembering that todays's burden may be lighter tomorrow.

Since mindfulness of the presently experienced - is a key condition of its practice - I have less single items, but its multifactorial preconditions in mind too. Traditionally it's not mindfulness alone, but balanced with other the faculties of confidence (which I prefer to the religiously ambiguous term 'hope') and investigation of phenomena (wisdom), as well as unified mind (concentration) and effort (energetic application). Where each faculty functions as antidote for imbalances in those two pairs too, and where mindfulness is the key at its center.
 

In a study of over 700 musicians during the pandemic lockdown, mindfulness predicted greater distress, whereas hope foreshadowed lower distress and higher resilience.

Source: “Work-related resilience, engagement and wellbeing among music industry workers during the Covid-19 pandemic: A multiwave model of mindfulness and hope”

 
Mindfullness of present pheno- and noumena is therefore not at all of a dreamy partial kind, as perceived in above quotes, but with confidence, investigation, concentration and effort properly balanced, can't but mention everything happening experientially, is of course ever modulating and changing. No need to look for that in the future.
 
However, in my case confidence in change mainly came from childhood. Already at birth I had a deathly disease which went away. Numerous other diseases came and went. Engraining already then this confidence, but in other respects an disadvantage as an unconscious strategy not to go after riches, status or official higher education, since ultimately it would always come to naught.
 
Paradoxically I could recondition myself from such a self-debilitating unconscious strategy through mindfulness meditation, I didn't become a monk (with the ideal of no riches or status), the confidence remained.
 

and believes that he is at the point of no return: a chance -however small- always exists to prevail.

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 20 October 2024 - 05:09 PM.

[ta5]

I take 10mg per day. But, LifeExtension had an article a year ago talking about some of the studies and that only 300mcg showed benefits:
https://www.lifeexte...alzheimers-risk

 

I sure would like to know what the dose response curve looks like. I would take more if it's better.