151 replies to this topic

[tintinet]

Personal anecdote, FWIW: I've taken melatonin for over 10 years, almost every night, for putative longevity and long term health benefits, predominantly. Dosage has ranged from 3 mg to 6 mg (mostly 6 mg including 3 mg "regular" and 3 mg "time release"). Occasionally, I miss a night. AFAICT, I notice no difference in my sleep onset, quality, duration, etc., that I can relate directly to melatonin. But, I am fairly "refractory" to most supplements, at least, ISTM, WRT any effects I experience from taking 'em, with a few exceptions (e.g. high dose resveratrol).

[chris_h]

Is it ok to take meltonin with alcohol?

My supplement bottle warns not to, but I question if there is any reason for this beyond the obvious short term cognitive effects?

[Mind]

I take mine with a can of beer (or glass of wine) right before bed. Maybe I shouldn't.

[mitkat]

I take mine with a can of beer (or glass of wine) right before bed. Maybe I shouldn't.

I love this guy!

[tintinet]

Pinot Noir or Shiraz or Syrah for me- great combo!

[mike250]

I'm just curious, even though it is an antioxidant isn't Melatonin's action pro-inflammatory via induction of IL-1?

[tintinet]

Well, it is immunomodulatory, it appears, in vivo, and, in studies I've seen, has a focusing and beneficial effect when used in viral infection or for therapy of "auto-immune" diseases.

[mike250]

so in one sense it can shut down the immune system?

[tintinet]

Apparently. Or re-orient to more appropriate behavior.

[boily]

About 2 weeks ago I switched from 3mg NOW brand melatonin lozenge to the LEF natural sleep melatonin (5mg - 2.5mg immediate, 2.5mg timed release) I now sleep very well indeed, but I have experienced some pretty bad nightmares as well. Will continue to take and see if I get more of the same. I seem to be recovering from resistance training quicker as well, but that could be any number of things. On the same day I started LEF melatonin I also began resveratrol and other fruit extracts(pomegranate, blueberry, bilberry and grapeseed)

I'd like to hear of any other nightmare experiences associated with melatonin.... Anyone?

[boily]

BTW I had been taking the 3mg nightly for a few months with no problems.

[zoolander]

About 2 weeks ago I switched from 3mg NOW brand melatonin lozenge to the LEF natural sleep melatonin (5mg - 2.5mg immediate, 2.5mg timed release) I now sleep very well indeed

I take the same boily except I don't have nightmares. I stack 5 mg melatonin with ashwagandha, L-theanine, 5-htp, L-Arginine and Velarian.

[lucid]

I'd like to hear of any other nightmare experiences associated with melatonin.... Anyone?

Well, I have really vivid dreams when taking melatonin. I don't take it every night and I definitely have more vivid dreams when I do take it. Our endogenous melatonin production peaks at around the age of 11, and I definitely remember having more / worse nightmares as a kid than I do w/o melatonin now.

It would be nice to see the effects of various doses of melatonin on:
1) Endogenous melatonin production while supplementing
2) Endogenous melatonin production after supplementing
3) Effect of supplementation on Melatonin reception (Apparently supplementation may PREVENT receptor degradation: see below)

Melatonin has also been shown to increase the average lifespan of mice by 20%.

A study shows less may be more:

From the age of 3 months until their natural death, female Swiss-derived SHR mice were given melatonin with their drinking water (2 or 20mg/l) for 5 consecutive days every month. Intact mice served as controls. There were 54 mice in each group. The results of this study show that the treatment of melatonin did not significantly influence food consumption, but its administration at lower doses did decrease the body weight of mice; it slowed down the age-related switching-off of estrous function; it did not influence the frequency of chromosome aberrations in bone marrow cells; it did not influence mean life span; and it increased life span of the last 10% of the survivors in comparison to controls. We also found that treatment with low dose melatonin (2mg/l) significantly decreased spontaneous tumor incidence (by 1,9-fold), mainly mammary carcinomas, in mice whereas higher doses (20mg/l) failed to influence tumor incidence as compared to controls. For this reason, we conclude that the effect of melatonin as a geroprotector is dose-dependent.

A study shows long-term potential benefits of melatonin:

Adult rats were treated with either melatonin, the putative melatonin antagonist N-(2,4 dinitrophenyl)-5-methoxytryptamine (ML-23), their combination, or a vehicle for 16 months via the drinking water. The survival rates, serum testosterone and densities of 125I-melatonin binding sites in the medulla-pons and hypothalamus of the animals at the age of 27-29 months were significantly higher in the melatonin than vehicle-treated group. Surprisingly, ML-23 without or with melatonin, also prolonged the life-span of the aged animals. ML-23 treatment greatly increased 125I-melatonin binding in the medulla-pons whereas this increase was prevented by melatonin supplementation. Thus melatonin can attenuate age-related decrease in survival rates, testosterone and brain 125I-melatonin binding sites, while chronic blockade by the putative antagonist also elicits melatonin-mimetic responses, perhaps by effecting supersensitivity.

I would like to see the equivalent human doses for the mice in the studies. How much water does a mouse drink a day and how much do they weigh? I think early melatonin supplementation @ low doses may be best. I'm 22, so looks like I am getting an early start.

[ageless]

See my post above... I believe melatonin has potential, but keep on the safe side and maybe the more effective side by keeping doses similar to what the body naturally produces at night... i use 300mcg-500mcg and time-released preferred.

[resveratrol]

It may be just my own metabolism, but I found that 3mg isn't enough to make a difference. Particularly when I was starting melatonin supplementation, I've found I need 6-10mg to really get the kind of sleep I'm looking for.

[macanizer]

I was having vivid dreams with 3mg. After reading this thread I started taking 750mcg (3mg pill cut into 4.) With the reduce dosage I just sleep 8-9 hours but I don't know if I'm dreaming anything anymore. The only complain is that I talk in my sleep sometimes, at least that's what my roomate is saying.

[lucid]

I've found I need 6-10mg to really get the kind of sleep I'm looking for.

Would that sleep resemble a coma?

[zoolander]

I believe melatonin has potential, but keep on the safe side and maybe the more effective side by keeping doses similar to what the body naturally produces at night... i use 300mcg-500mcg and time-released preferred.

What is the safe side? What is on the other side of safe? Are we talking about known toxicity here or just what you think is a good idea or the safe side?

Re. melatonin "causing" nightmares.......how would this occur? Are you suggesting that taking melatonin can change one's dreams states from good or not bad to nightmares? We all dream. Perhaps the melatonin induces a deeper sleep and a more lucid dream state. If that is the case then the nightmares are there in the first place and all the melatonin does is to induce a sleep that helps you see those dreams. IMHO a more lucid dream state is healthy.

[wydell]

I am not sure about the nightmare mechanism or if the nightmares are already there. However, I can tell you that:

1. No supplement has seemingly had a greater effect, positive or negative, than melatonin on me. The melatonin experience was negative due to the worst nightmares of my life on multiple occasions.

2. I don't believe that I am prone to nightmares or at least I can't recall that I am.


3. There are some others that have had horrible nightmares with melatonin.


4. The last time I tried melatonin was 7 years ago, when I was 31. I am going to give it another try due to the importance that a lot of people here believe this supplement has. I don't have any problems sleeping so I am not sure this a great idea.

What is the safe side? What is on the other side of safe? Are we talking about known toxicity here or just what you think is a good idea or the safe side?

Re. melatonin "causing" nightmares.......how would this occur? Are you suggesting that taking melatonin can change one's dreams states from good or not bad to nightmares? We all dream. Perhaps the melatonin induces a deeper sleep and a more lucid dream state. If that is the case then the nightmares are there in the first place and all the melatonin does is to induce a sleep that helps you see those dreams. IMHO a more lucid dream state is healthy.

[boily]

The nightmares I've had on melatonin are not life affecting, merely unpleasant. Of course it is a conscious decision to let them flow like water off a ducks back. Just last night I awoke after about 6-7 hours with a disturbing dream about twisters laced with lightning bearing down on me. Had no problem getting back to sleep for a few more hours, or perhaps I'm just remembering dreams more easily..... its hard to tell.

I don't believe that I am prone to nightmares or at least I can't recall that I am.

Same here. I'm 32 and have never had sleep problems. Melatonin for me is purely taken for the anti aging reasons.

[lucid]

Melatonin may actually prevent sleep problems later in life too. Peoples brains lose melatonin receptors as they age; supplementation apparently slows this loss. This is very high on my sup list.

[kenj]

I would think melatonin causing nightmare is too much catecholamine activity in the brain, affecting the otherwise gradual, slower serotonin-melatonin conversion, responsible for a restful sleep through the five or so sleep cycles. Thus supplemental melatonin may cause arousals during the transitional phases, triggering nightmares, and early awakenings (if it's not time-released).
Luckily we got 5-HTP, GABA, the B vitamins (and inositol), magnesium and calcium, to strengthen the serotonin production, to secure a restful sleep, without nightmares.
I never take melatonin alone, FWIW. Only a few times I've taken rapid releasing 3mg to sleep 4 hours.

[buck1s]

Best dreams/nightmares I've ever had occurred when I started taking P5P. Wow!

[ageless]

What is the safe side? What is on the other side of safe? Are we talking about known toxicity here or just what you think is a good idea or the safe side?

Re. melatonin "causing" nightmares.......how would this occur? Are you suggesting that taking melatonin can change one's dreams states from good or not bad to nightmares? We all dream. Perhaps the melatonin induces a deeper sleep and a more lucid dream state. If that is the case then the nightmares are there in the first place and all the melatonin does is to induce a sleep that helps you see those dreams. IMHO a more lucid dream state is healthy.

True enough, i am making a judgement on what i would consider safe and with less risk by using lower dosage. As with any drug, vitamin, etc... the dose often makes the difference in what is effective and what is harmful. Most studies seem to show a good safety profile with melatonin, but i simply prefer to err on the side of caution and use a dose that more reflects natural release of melatonin.

[resveratrol]

Would that sleep resemble a coma?

Nope, not in the slightest. 3mg really makes no difference for me at all; I'm surprised so many people notice an effect with a dose like that.

[tintinet]

Ya. I take 6 mg regular and 6 mg time release melatonin every night I remember to, but I sleep just as well when I forget to take any!

[shifter]

I tried 15mg melatonin and 500mg Rhodiola Rosea once.... slept like a baby

If I am working all through the night under constant light, should I take melatonin? Even though I should be awake? Because as I am under constant lighting I assume my body wont be making its own

[maestro949]

I don't think melatonin introduces nightmares but simply amplifies what you are dreaming such that it feels more real and is treated by the brain as an actual memory rather than one that is wiped upon waking as most dreams are.

[zoolander]

Most studies seem to show a good safety profile with melatonin, but i simply prefer to err on the side of caution and use a dose that more reflects natural release of melatonin.

You can take melatonin therapeutically for a multitude of situations

1. As antioxidant
2. To aid normal sleep
3. To aid sleep in daytime hours
4. Jet lag
5. Age related insomnia
6. Insomnia

I've heard people talking melatonin to mimic normal physiological levels but this dosage regime would only apply when you are somehow deficient or out of wack as in examples 3,4,5,and 6 above.

Looking at the stats, most people that come to these forums are young and healthy. Correct me if I am wrong but most are also here to find way to optimise their already young and healthy bodies.

So, my point is, if you are young and healthy and simply want to increase your quality of sleep and do not fall under examples 3, 4, 5, and 6 above, then taking melatonin to mimic normal physiological levels sort of defeats the purpose considering that you are physiologically healthy to begin with and the amount you take (if taken at bed time) will just be summed with your own endogenous secretion of melatonin making the melatonin concentration greater than physiological.

Personally I take melatonin for it's non-sleep inducing properties. I can sleep without it.

[wydell]

I started it up for its non-sleep benefits at 1mg. My pill also has has niacine, b6 and magnesium in it. Two nights, no nightmares.

I am not sure about the nightmare mechanism or if the nightmares are already there. However, I can tell you that:

1. No supplement has seemingly had a greater effect, positive or negative, than melatonin on me. The melatonin experience was negative due to the worst nightmares of my life on multiple occasions.

2. I don't believe that I am prone to nightmares or at least I can't recall that I am.


3. There are some others that have had horrible nightmares with melatonin.


4. The last time I tried melatonin was 7 years ago, when I was 31. I am going to give it another try due to the importance that a lot of people here believe this supplement has. I don't have any problems sleeping so I am not sure this a great idea.

What is the safe side? What is on the other side of safe? Are we talking about known toxicity here or just what you think is a good idea or the safe side?

Re. melatonin "causing" nightmares.......how would this occur? Are you suggesting that taking melatonin can change one's dreams states from good or not bad to nightmares? We all dream. Perhaps the melatonin induces a deeper sleep and a more lucid dream state. If that is the case then the nightmares are there in the first place and all the melatonin does is to induce a sleep that helps you see those dreams. IMHO a more lucid dream state is healthy.

Edited by chrono, 08 October 2010 - 09:29 PM.
fixed quote tag