6 replies to this topic

[narcissistic]

Bacopa and dopamine

Modern science has shown that bacopa manly has its effects on:

• Acetylcholine
• Serotonin
• GABA
• Glutamine

The effects intensity probably equivalent to that order as well. It might be worth noting that bacopa also has an inhibiting effect on the positive calcium jons in the brain, quite similar to some drugs used to control epilepsy such as carbamazepine.

The most commonly described effect from long term use of bacopa seams to be:

• Mental clarity
• Increased confidence
• Increased libido
• Increased ability to concentrate
• General well being
• better short and long term memory

It seams to me that these effects mentioned above and the four first in particularly are usually associated with dopamine, and cant be fully explained by the effects modern seines has proven bacopa to have on the monoamins. It appears as if the actual effect of bacopa resembles more to well non dopaminergics sutch as Mucuna; When Increased serotonin and GABA really should give a moderate sedation, how ever no one I have spoken to describe having such an effect from bacopa.

I have even herd from several of persons that bacopa gave them a sense of controlled anger and aggression witch to me seams to be typical for increased dopamine and should defiantly not be associated with GABA or serotonin; How ever bacopa should actually decrease the levels of dopamine in the brain, because all for monoamine associated with bacopa are non to have that effect.

Bacopas effect on libido and sexual ability could partly be explained by its effect on it effect on acetylcholine and glutamine. Still I’m confused by bacoaps actions and have a sense that I’m missing part of the picture, what do you think abbot bacopa and dopamine?

//The Swede

Edited by narcissistic, 17 October 2006 - 12:14 PM.

[ikaros]

First things first. It's considered naive in neuroscience to talk about neurotransmitters and directly associate them with complex human behaviour. E.g. serotonin is the-feel-good-transmitter, gaba the-feel-calm-transmitter etc. In reality it doesn't work so reductionistically. For example you can't associate dopamine with giving one a good ability to focus, in certain instances dopamine impairs focus (depending especially on the level of activity of the transmitter). Pretty much like the ability to forget is actually good for remembering new things, even though it seems plain logical the brain's ability to forget is bad news.

I have even herd from several of persons that bacopa gave them a sense of controlled anger and aggression witch to me seams to be typical for increased dopamine and should defiantly not be associated with GABA or serotonin; How ever bacopa should actually decrease the levels of dopamine in the brain, because all for monoamine associated with bacopa are non to have that effect.

I doubt anger has anything to do with bacopa, perhaps maybe, but when people take psychoactive substances they often blame everything bad happening in their head on the substance without real sceptical analysis what's really causing the felt ill effects. I remeber no literature reporting such effects on bacopa.

The most commonly described effect from long term use of bacopa seams to be:

• Mental clarity
• Increased confidence
• Increased libido
• Increased ability to concentrate
• General well being
• better short and long term memory

My personal experience with healthy scepticism has only registered mild short-term memory boost, weak sedative effect which seems to be around only after acute administration...and well, all the other acclaimed effects...zero. I've been on it for 10 weeks and I'm quitting it after my reserve of bacopa runs out (which is due to 10 more weeks). Of course I might be just too demanding and haven't just considered the mild effects as significant. I'd give it another try maybe when I hit my 40s or 50s unless they haven't figured out immortality by then or found a true substance that really delivers.

[superpooper]

Wouldn't the increase in GABA activity cause at least a small increase in dopamine?

[doug123]

First things first. It's considered naive in neuroscience to talk about neurotransmitters and directly associate them with complex human behaviour. E.g. serotonin is the-feel-good-transmitter, gaba the-feel-calm-transmitter etc. In reality it doesn't work so reductionistically. For example you can't associate dopamine with giving one a good ability to focus, in certain instances dopamine impairs focus (depending especially on the level of activity of the transmitter). Pretty much like the ability to forget is actually good for remembering new things, even though it seems plain logical the brain's ability to forget is bad news.

I doubt anger has anything to do with bacopa, perhaps maybe, but when people take psychoactive substances they often blame everything bad happening in their head on the substance without real sceptical analysis what's really causing the felt ill effects. I remeber no literature reporting such effects on bacopa.

My personal experience with healthy scepticism has only registered mild short-term memory boost, weak sedative effect which seems to be around only after acute administration...and well, all the other acclaimed effects...zero. I've been on it for 10 weeks and I'm quitting it after my reserve of bacopa runs out (which is due to 10 more weeks). Of course I might be just too demanding and haven't just considered the mild effects as significant. I'd give it another try maybe when I hit my 40s or 50s unless they haven't figured out immortality by then or found a true substance that really delivers.

Wow, ikaros. You are a budding psychiatrist! Or perhaps neuroscientist?

[ikaros]

Wow, ikaros. You are a budding psychiatrist! Or perhaps neuroscientist?

Nope [lol] ...I just don't like when people talk mumbojumbo, considering myself also.

PS. didn't someone here mention that things should be kept as scientifical as possible. Oh well, maybe I'm just having one of those low dopamine days right now and should stick a selegiline patch on my forehead.

[narcissistic]

Hello, I really did manages to forget righting this. Any way:

ikaros: I do now it’s a bit rach to link behaviour/abilities to specific monoamines yet there is a clear connection; fore instance cocaine will defiantly, if you don’t have a bipolar disorder, increase you’re ability to focus/concentrate and clarify you’re perception maybe even perform better in cognitive tests. DMEA on the other hand will make you emphatic perhaps even case you to making strange phone calls to people you at the time feel that you let down or treated unfair; maybe a sover vose in youre hed tels you not to you might eaven have a sens of the stupidity of youre actions, even tow if you clearly hypothetically wude be on DMEA you might do it, this is becos youre brain is bathing in serotonin.

To day its clear that cocaine effect mostly are due to its ability to increase dopamine by inhibit reuptake. DMEA on the other hand acts on the realise of serotonin. This is of cores a shadow of reality yet behaviour as well as mental disorders can defiantly be linkt to specific “monoamines” or to be more paresis: substances that scientists has manages to identify distinct to something ells and than given a name.

The effect of nootropics on the brains monoamines is more subtil however all nootropics works by cangching levels of monoamines (by different actions) leading, if the change is big anafe, to a direct change in: the individuals wellbeing, ability to cope with life, ability to salve problems etc. that’s way we are taking them, right?

the reason way I posted this is because bocopa doesn’t match my expectations, what I really expected was a mild sedation how ever the effect I maintained was really the opposite.

At the point being I’m studying law second year. during the first semester of the firs year I hade a pretty tuff time coping with all the work necessary to perform awrights in my class. studying hard hade never really bin my strong side as I was more interested in athletic and artistically activities in the "gymnasiet" (similar to American high Scholl) really I hade bin gliding throw all my previous education, so this was something new.

A friend of my recommended me taking bacopa I lookt in to it and made sure that it was safe then started taking it, the results was remarkable, with in 7 weeks the time I hade to put in to my studies was clearly reduced. Placebo, or a natural increase learning capacity, or real effect from bacopa, or perhaps a combination of all three? No one now, this is yeast one happy story.

yet the effect I associate with bacopa doesn’t end with better performance in my education, I believe that: my sex drive has bin improved remarkably, my need for sleep has bin clearly reduced, and general wellbeing has significantly bin improved. One might think that I was severely depressed before, and that that would explain the improments, but actually I felt real good before taking bacopa as well.

What I really would like to now is what experiences the people on x has of bacopa?

ikaros mentioned, as I interpret it, that the effect he maintained from bacopa (in contrast to mine) was some wear mild. its interesting how different the same herb/chemical can effect different people, for instance I ones tried the Nordic herb rosenrot the inuits make sop of it and the Russians has a history of using it as well as the Vikings how ust it to cope with cold weather now days its mostly known for its ability to increase sex drive witch the Chinese pries it for. Yeast for fun I did try it for that specific purpose, and nothing what so ever happened I even doubled the dos and still didn’t have any effect.

A copel of weeks later I hade a real bad cold like I haven’t had sins I was a kid. Howe ever I consider my self lucky because an old girlfriend lockout fore me and mad me food, she also gave me a the she called pau d arco I really expected nothing at all drinking it how ever it increased my sex drive in a way I yeast couldn’t amadien (I’m sure it wasn’t old feelings for the girl).

Its seams as if the effect is weary individual some times a herb fits like a kea in a lock and some times nothing happens, maybe bacopa and pau d arco is my two golden grails.

[ikaros]

It all depends on numerous factors which determine whether you'll concentrate better or feel good, e.g. LSD boosts also serotonin release and activity in general, but can't be comparable to for example SSRIs which also in general do the same (that is to boost serotonin activity in the brain). The former makes you go nuts and see things that are deeply stored in your psyche, the latter dulls emotions and lessens anxiety. These two compounds do have similarities to certain extent, but serotonin doesn't always mean being emphatic and loving etc, it can have opposite effects depending on what and where it's doing it's job and how much also. Monoamines are modulators, not emotions or abilities, they modulate those phenomenons and only through complex interaction with different brain parts and other neurotransmitter systems, they bring about behavioural changes.