82 replies to this topic

[fearfrost]

I am curious what people know about quercetin and its effect on SIRT1. I have read numerous places that the metabolites of quercetin actually inhibit SIRT1 activity, while quercetin itself is an activator. I found this article that I posted below, but I cannot access the full article. Has anyone read it and what can you conclude from it? Basically, I am wondering if the quercetin has a greater activating effect than the metabolites have an inactivating effect. Any information on quercetin and it's role with resveratrol would be appreciated. Thanks!

SIRT1 stimulation by polyphenols is affected by their stability and metabolism. 

Vincent C J de Boer, Marcus C de Goffau, Ilja C W Arts, Peter C H Hollman, Jaap Keijer 
Silent information regulator two ortholog 1 (SIRT1) is the human ortholog of the yeast sir2 protein; one of the most important regulators of lifespan extension by caloric restriction in several organisms. Dietary polyphenols, abundant in vegetables, fruits, cereals, wine and tea, were reported to stimulate the deacetylase activity of recombinant SIRT1 protein and could therefore be potential regulators of aging associated processes. However, inconsistent data between effects of polyphenols on the recombinant SIRT1 and on in vivo SIRT1, led us to investigate the influence of (1) stability of polyphenols under experimental conditions and (2) metabolism of polyphenols in human HT29 cells, on stimulation of SIRT1. With an improved SIRT1 deacetylation assay we found three new polyphenolic stimulators. Epigallocatechin galate (EGCg, 1.76-fold), epicatechin galate (ECg, 1.85-fold) and myricetin (3.19-fold) stimulated SIRT1 under stabilizing conditions, whereas without stabilization, these polyphenols strongly inhibited SIRT1, probably due to H(2)O(2) formation. Using metabolically active HT29 cells we were able to show that quercetin (a stimulator of recombinant SIRT1) could not stimulate intracellular SIRT1. The major quercetin metabolite in humans, quercetin 3-O-glucuronide, slightly inhibited the recombinant SIRT1 activity which explains the lack of stimulatory action of quercetin in HT29 cells. This study shows that the stimulation of SIRT1 is strongly affected by polyphenol stability and metabolism, therefore extrapolation of in vitro SIRT1 stimulation results to physiological effects should be done with caution.

[maxwatt]

The paper is available here: http://tinyurl.com/ycpjzp for $30.
If the major metabolite inhibits SIRT1, I'd say quercetin will not activate SIRT1 in vivo; it gets metabolized before it can bind to the SIRT1 gene, then the metabolite blocks it. A more pertinent question is if it is blocking the SIRT1 activating effect of resveratrol when used in combination.

Here's a very old study, which might indicate Quercetin does not prolong lifespan in mice, but shortens it; yet when combined with other polyphenols (as in black currant juice) the life-shortening effect may be cancelled.

1: Exp Gerontol. 1982;17(3):213-7. Links
Quercetin, flavonoids and the life-span of mice.Jones E, Hughes RE.
A dietary supplement of 0.1% quercetin significantly reduced the life span of mice. The effect was predominantly on the 'shorter living' males. A blackcurrant juice extract, containing a mixture of flavonoids in addition to quercetin, prolonged significantly the life span of the 'older dying' females. The significance of these results vis-a-vis aging mechanisms and the dietary intake of quercetin is discussed.

PMID: 7140862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[smcracraft]

The paper is available here: http://tinyurl.com/ycpjzp for $30. 
If the major metabolite inhibits SIRT1, I'd say quercetin will not activate SIRT1 in vivo; it gets metabolized before it can bind to the SIRT1 gene, then the metabolite blocks it.  A more pertinent question is if it is blocking the SIRT1 activating effect of resveratrol when used in combination. 

Here's a very old study, which might indicate Quercetin does not prolong lifespan in mice, but shortens it; yet when combined with other polyphenols (as in black currant juice) the life-shortening effect may be cancelled.

1: Exp Gerontol. 1982;17(3):213-7.  Links
Quercetin, flavonoids and the life-span of mice.Jones E, Hughes RE.
A dietary supplement of 0.1% quercetin significantly reduced the life span of mice. The effect was predominantly on the 'shorter living' males. A blackcurrant juice extract, containing a mixture of flavonoids in addition to quercetin, prolonged significantly the life span of the 'older dying' females. The significance of these results vis-a-vis aging mechanisms and the dietary intake of quercetin is discussed.

PMID: 7140862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

If that were true, about quercetin deactivating, then longevinex would not
get such strong resveratrol-activation.

I don't think much stops resveratrol activating SIRT1 other than

too much light
too much heat
too much oxygen
not having a binding agent that takes it through the liver a few times

Sardi did his homework gents.

Not an apologist, just a scientist,
Stuart

[fearfrost]

I dont think the question is whether quercetin stops resveratrol from activating SIRT1, but rather whether the metabolites of quercetin deactivate SIRT1 in the body. There is a big difference between the two. The potential problem is specifically quercetin 3-O-glucuronide.

So does taking quercetin have a net SIRT1 activating effect (ie: quercetin activates more than quercetin 3-O-glucuronide deactivates)? That is the question.

There is no doubt that quercetin will show SIRT1 activation in an assay, as does resveratrol. That is possibly why longevinex will show such a strong activating effect. However, the in vitro effect is possibly very different from the in vivo effect (due to metabolites and other complications inside the body).

Any thoughts??

[maxwatt]

If that were true, about quercetin deactivating, then longevinex would not
get such strong resveratrol-activation.

I don't think much stops resveratrol activating SIRT1 other than

  too much light
  too much heat
  too much oxygen
  not having a binding agent that takes it through the liver a few times

Sardi did his homework gents.

Not an apologist, just a scientist,
Stuart

What studies demonstrate Longevinex activates the SIRT1 gene?

Both Sinclair's recent study and the French (Auwerx) study, mixed resveratrol into custom chow formulations. Wouldn't taking resv. with food have the same effect? You get a lot of quercetin in onions and many other foods.....

[deftndumb1]

Hi

I posted the following to the resveratrol users group at yahoo, but it's relevant to this thread if we substitute "Green Tea" for "quercetin:"

My question is this: Are green tea supplements working at cross-purposes to resveratrol supplements? It appears from the [study cited at the top of this thread] that "under stabilizing conditions" EGCg stimulated Sirt1, but "strongly inhibited" it when those "conditions" were not met.

Does one have to choose between resveratrol and EGCg? That would suck. And what is meant by "stabilizing conditions?" Is "stabilized" EGCg available on the market? I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.

And while we're on the subject of green tea, it looks like we should be snorting
it. No joke:

http://www.scienceda...61230110309.htm

[deftndumb1]

What studies demonstrate Longevinex activates the SIRT1 gene? 

So far as I know, just the one Longevinex had done by Biomol. I'm pretty sure I saw it posted online a while back. I'll see if I can find it for you. But in the meanwhile let's assume for a moment that Longevinex did indeed appear to activate Sirt1 in the Biomol fluor de lys assay. This raises the perplexing question of why the other products tested didn't. Perhaps it had to do with dosage, although at 40mg Longevinex doesn't seem that potent. Perhaps it's the synergy with the other ingredients, quercetin and OPCs and whatnot, but most resveratrol products contain at least some extra goodies. So, why Longevinex and Longevinex alone? Looking at the products currently on the market, the only ingredients that set Longevinex apart from the rest are IP6 and Lecithin. Could that be the key?

There is also the possibility that Longevinex does not activate Sirt1 at all, but rather, is just good at passing the Biomol test. Here's a link to a study that suggests the Biomol fluor de lys assay may be deeply flawed:

http://www.jbc.org/c...ll/280/17/17038

[fearfrost]

I uploaded the article that should help clear up a lot of the quercetin/resveratrol questions:

http://health.groups...ol-users/files/
Boer et al 2006 - SIRT1 stimulation by polyphenols.pdf
SIRT1 stimulation by polyphenols is affected by their stability and metabolism

You can read it and draw your own conclusions, but I have stopped taking quercetin after reading it. Just sticking with resveratrol for now.

Thanks a ton to opales for this.

[emerson]

I thought I'd add a quick note to anyone finding this through google, that the yahoo group thread is well worth looking up and soothed my worries about taking green tea with resveratrol. I mention it because I was worried about exactly the same thing, and this thread pops up as the top result for green tea srt1 in google.

[eternalone]

I uploaded the article that should help clear up a lot of the quercetin/resveratrol questions:

http://health.groups...ol-users/files/
Boer et al 2006 - SIRT1 stimulation by polyphenols.pdf
SIRT1 stimulation by polyphenols is affected by their stability and metabolism

You can read it and draw your own conclusions, but I have stopped taking quercetin after reading it.  Just sticking with resveratrol for now.

Thanks a ton to opales for this.

Thanks fearfrost,

For some reason my browser won't load this page. I will look it up at another computer later today.

[fearfrost]

Oh, you do have to be a member of the yahoo group "resveratrol-users" to view the paper. Sorry for the confusion.

[health_nutty]

Interesting that AOR, LEF, and Longivenex all choose to include it in there resveratrol supplements.

[tintinet]

Highly debatable. The above noted study, SIRT1 Stimulation by Polyphenols.... is an in vitro cell culture assay, and what happens metabolically in a highly complex organism (like humans) with digestive tract, liver, etc. may be quite different from the effects witnessed within cells growing on a cell culture plate. Hard to know. Apparently, quercetin is present in red wine, and thus may account, perhaps, for a significant trans-resversatrol effect on humans from relatively minute amounts of t-resv. via quercetin's inhibition of sulfation of t-resv. by the liver (an action touted by Longevinex producers.)

Jury is still "out" on this one, IMO. Tough to totally avoid quercetin, but it still may be best to not supplement in large amounts, perhaps! [huh]

[sUper GeNius]

Highly debatable.  The above noted study, SIRT1 Stimulation by Polyphenols.... is an in vitro cell culture assay, and what happens metabolically in a highly complex organism (like humans) with digestive tract, liver, etc. may be quite different from the effects witnessed within cells growing on a cell culture plate.  Hard to know. Apparently, quercetin is present in red wine, and thus may account, perhaps, for a significant trans-resversatrol effect on humans from relatively minute amounts of t-resv. via quercetin's inhibition of sulfation of t-resv. by the liver (an action touted by Longevinex producers.)

Jury is still "out" on this one, IMO.  Tough to totally avoid quercetin, but it still may be best to not supplement in large amounts, perhaps!  [huh]

With the big names, (LEF, AOR, etc) including quercetin, I suspect that information from someone has leaked. Sirtis?

[maxwatt]

Highly debatable.  The above noted study, SIRT1 Stimulation by Polyphenols.... is an in vitro cell culture assay, and what happens metabolically in a highly complex organism (like humans) with digestive tract, liver, etc. may be quite different from the effects witnessed within cells growing on a cell culture plate.  Hard to know. Apparently, quercetin is present in red wine, and thus may account, perhaps, for a significant trans-resversatrol effect on humans from relatively minute amounts of t-resv. via quercetin's inhibition of sulfation of t-resv. by the liver (an action touted by Longevinex producers.)

Jury is still "out" on this one, IMO.  Tough to totally avoid quercetin, but it still may be best to not supplement in large amounts, perhaps!  [huh]

With the big names, (LEF, AOR, etc) including quercetin, I suspect that information from someone has leaked. Sirtis?

Not necessarily; the 50% extract they all use for resveratrol is relatively expensive compared to other neutraceuticals. Add some cheap quercetin, use less resveratrol, close your eyes and wish it works. They're probably doing it because everyone else is doing it, and marketing says it will sell.

FWIW, many foods contain quercetin. The rodent studies mixed resveratrol with feed. It's as likely as not that taking it with a meal will inhibit glucoronidizization and improve bioavailable.

[niner]

Quercetin is extensively bound to serum albumin. I had neglected to consider that fact about a month ago when I said that I thought dietary sources should be sufficient to inhibit sulfation. I no longer think that dietary sources are necessarily sufficient for this. Quercetin is reported to be a picomolar inhibitor of duodenal and hepatic sulfotransferase, so the idea of including it in a resveratrol formulation is more than marketing spew- in theory it should help. I don't know of any clinical verification of this with resveratrol, however. Did Sardi have some contract research done on this?

[tintinet]

"Moreover, three studies indicate the inclusion of quercetin with resveratrol inhibits sulfation in the liver and improves bioavailability. [Xenobiotica 30: 609-17, 2000; 30: 857-66, 2000; 30:1047-54, 2000]"

The above comes from Longevinex's website.


First:

Sulphation of resveratrol, a natural product present in grapes and wine, in the human liver and duodenum

Authors: De Santi C.1; Pietrabissa A.2; Spisni R.3; Mosca F.2; Pacifici G. M.1

Source: Xenobiotica, Volume 30, Number 6, 1 June 2000, pp. 609-617(9)

Publisher: Taylor and Francis Ltd


Abstract:


1. Resveratrol, a polyphenolic compound present in grapes and wine, has beneficial effects against cancer and protective effects on the cardiovascular system. It is present in the diet, and the hepatic and duodenal sulphation might limit the bioavailability of this compound. The aim was to study the sulphation of resveratrol in the human liver and duodenum.

2. A simple and reproducible radiometric assay for resveratrol sulphation was developed. It employed 3'-phosphoadenosine-5'-phosphosulphate-[35S] as the sulphate donor and the rates of resveratrol sulphation (mean SD, pmol min mg cytosolic protein) were 90±21 (liver, n = 10) and 74±60 (duodenum, n = 10, p = 0.082).

3. Resveratrol sulphotransferase followed Michaelis-Menten kinetics and Km (mean SD; muM) was 0.63±0.03 (liver, n = 5) and 0.50±0.26 (duodenum, n = 5, p = 0.39) and Vmax (mean SD, pmol min mg cytosolic protein) were 125±31 (liver, n = 5) and 129±85 (duodenum, n = 5, p = 0.62).

4. Resveratrol sulphation was inhibited by the flavonoid quercetin, by mefenamic acid and salicylic acid, two commonly used non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. IC50 of resveratrol sulphation for quercetin was 12±2 pM (liver) and 15±2 pM (duodenum), those for mefenamic acid were 24±3 nM (liver) and 11±0.6 nM (duodenum), and those for salicylic acid were 53±9 muM (liver) and 66±4 muM (duodenum).

5. The potent inhibition of resveratrol sulphation by quercetin, a flavonoid present in wine, fruits and vegetables, suggests that compounds present in the diet may inhibit the sulphation of resveratrol, thus improving its bioavailability.

Language: English

Document Type: Research article

Affiliations: 1: Department of Neurosciences, Section of Pharmacology, Medical School, Via Roma 55, I-56126 Pisa, Italy 2: Department of Oncology, Section of Surgery, Cisanello Hospital at University of Pisa, Cisanello, Pisa, Italy 3: Department of Surgery, Medical School, Via Roma 67, I-56126 Pisa, Italy

[fearfrost]

Just an update on my regime:

I was taking quercetin when I started taking resveratrol in December. I have flip flopped many times, sometimes taking it, other times not taking it... based on the research I read, how I felt that day, from what other said, and whether or not the stars were aligned. :-) Basically I had no real basis.

Anyways, now I am sticking with quercetin. Although it is still up in the air, I feel that I have read more about the benefits of adding quercetin to my resveratrol supplementation. So here is what I have been taking for about a week now and plan on taking for the next 3 months when I will again reconsider my mixture:

Morning:
200 mg resveratrol
500 mg quercetin
1200 mg lecithin
daily vitamin

Evening:
200 mg resveratrol
500 mg quercetin
1200 mg lecithin
100 mg ellagic acid (via pomegranate extract)
500 mg Vitamin C
1 glass of wine

[health_nutty]

How did you determine the quercetin dosage? It's a lot higher than AOR or LEF

[fearfrost]

I was influenced by seeing what Bill Sardi takes, by the amount Longevinex has, by reading reports on imminst forum, by publication that talked about quercetin's benefits, and also by what was available (as far as dosage in a pill).

Sorry its not much more specific and I dont have any references right now, but I am not ashamed to say that I didnt really determine the dose based on much solid scientific evidence. Basically I just want to overwhelm my body with quercetin metabolization so the resveratrol can run free and do its magic. Until specific data comes out I think my guess is good enough.

EDIT: if I have more time in the coming weekends, I will try to give a more thorough report with references on exactly why I chose that dose. There are a lot of great papers on quercetin. But right now I am a bit too busy to take the time. my apologies

[health_nutty]

Fearfrost, that makes sense to me.

[steelheader]

Since there is the question of a metabolite of quercetin inhibiting SIRT1, it would be useful if we knew the minimum dose of quercetin which will inhibit sulfation of resveratrol. (And whether or not that dose varies with the amount of resveratrol consumed.)

To subjectively evaluate the effect of adding a small amount of quercetin to my resveratrol dose, every other day I'm mixing 50 to 75 mg (eyeballed) of quercetin into my morning cocktail of 400 mg of resveratrol from BAC powder, red wine, fish oil, apple cider vinegar and water.

[health_nutty]

To subjectively evaluate the effect of adding a small amount of quercetin to my resveratrol dose, every other day I'm mixing 50 to 75 mg (eyeballed) of quercetin into my morning cocktail of 400 mg of resveratrol from BAC powder, red wine, fish oil, apple cider vinegar and water.

Please keep us updated with this as I am very tempted to try the same thing.

[health_nutty]

Red Wine Is a Poor Source of Bioavailable Flavonols in Men1
Jeanne H. M. de Vries*2, Peter C. H. Hollman{dagger}, Ingrid van Amersfoort*, Margreet R. Olthof* and Martijn B. Katan*

* Division of Human Nutrition and Epidemiology, Wageningen University, 6703 HD Wageningen, the Netherlands and {dagger} State Institute for Quality Control of Agricultural Products (RIKILT), 6708 PD Wageningen, the Netherlands

2To whom correspondence should be addressed at Division of Human Nutrition and Epidemiology, Wageningen University, Bomenweg 2, 6703 HD Wageningen, the Netherlands. E-mail: Jeanne.devries@staff.nutepi.wau.nl

Red wine is a source of polyphenolic antioxidants, of which flavonols such as quercetin are representatives. Red wine might therefore prevent LDL oxidation and atherosclerosis. However, data on the bioavailability of flavonols from wine are lacking. Therefore, we compared the bioavailability of flavonols, especially quercetin, from red wine with that from the major dietary sources, yellow onions and black tea. Twelve healthy men consumed 750 mL red wine, 50 g fried onions or 375 mL of black tea, each for 4 d in random order. These supplements provided similar amounts of quercetin (14–16 mg). There was a washout period of 3 d between each period of supplementation. The plasma quercetin concentration after the consumption of wine was lower than that after onions (P < 0.05) and not different from that after tea. Urinary excretion of quercetin after wine did not differ from that after onions and was higher than that after tea (P < 0.05). We conclude that flavonols from red wine are absorbed. However, because one glass of red wine provides fewer available flavonols than one portion of onions or one glass of tea, red wine appears to be a poorer source of flavonols than these other two sources.

[stephen_b]

Interesting study. It makes me wonder if flavonols (alone) are what causes the health benefits.

Stephen

[mirian]

Hey stillheader stop wasting your money on fish oil, and taken 3 softgels of Organic Flaxseed oil for only $6.59 for 200 softgels giving at least 1,200mg ALA plus 60mg of lignans. Just take daily with first meal:

http://www.swansonvi...CatalogId=10051

FLAXSEED OIL IS SUPERIOR TO FISH OIL, HERE'S WHY:

Increasing folate may increase blood levels of DHA an omega 3. Folate helps transport stored DHA from the liver into the bloodstream. [Mens Health Magazine, May 2006,p.40]

"A healthy man should get 1.6g of ALA per day."
[Prevention Magazine, May 2006, p.26]

But, supplementation with DHA directly (an omega-3 fatty acid found in fish oil) in healthy young men has been shown to decrease the activity of immune cells, such as natural killer (NK) cells, and to inhibit certain measures of inflammation in the test tube.17

17. Kelley DS, Taylor PC, Nelson GJ, et al. Docosahexaenoic acid ingestion inhibits natural killer cell activity and production of inflammatory mediators in young healthy men. [Lipids 1999;34:317–24]

But, supplementing with veggie Omega 3-ALA has shown to opposite immune system promoting not suppressing like DHA:

"Fight Disease with Flax. A 1-gram increase in daily intake of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA)can reduce a man's risk of developing pneumonia by 31%. ALA is an omega-3 fat that helps decrease infection risk by quelling inflammation and regulating blood sugar."[Mens Health Magazine, Feb 2006,p.40]

Flaxseed Oil Lowers Blood Pressure. The flaxseed
oil participants had on average a drop in their
systolic (top number) blood pressure from 120 to 110
mm Hg. Their diastolic (bottom number) blood pressures
dropped from 80 to 70 mm Hg.[Heart 2006; 92, 166–169]

Dietary supplementation with flaxseed oil lowers blood pressure.[Eur J Clin Nutr, 1/31/07]

"Fish haters can get strong bones too. Diets high in
alpha-linolenic acid may promote strong bones.[Nutrition Journal, January 16, 2007]

Fish Consumption Linked to Heart Abnormality.Fish oil & eating fish may actually boost the risk of atrial fibrillation in healthy people. It's possible that fish may promote the development of atrial fibrillation in healthy people but prevent it in people with heart conditions. American Heart Association only recommends fish or fish oil for those with heart disease.[Physicians' Health Study May 18, 2006]

"Alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) An Omega-3 fat found in a long term French Study to lower the risk of fatal heart attack by over one-third."[Prescription for Natural Healing Third Edition,(2000),p.418]

Men who gradually lose their hair at the front and/or crown of the head, beginning in their mid-twenties, are 50% more likely to develop prostate cancer.[Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2000;9:523-7]

"HAIR-TRIGGER DIABETES. Young men with thinning ahir are at greater risk of diabetes. Those who started balding before age 30 were more likely to be insulin resistant-raising their risk of diabetes- than men with hair to spare. If you see scalp in your 20s, get a fasting blood-glucose test. Levels over 100mg per deciliter signal trouble."[Mens Health Magazine, Mar 2007, p.38]

"FLAXEN HAIR. Men who were losing their hair on 50mg a day of lignans, phytonutrients found in flaxseed. Flax may halt the progress of a receding hairline. Flax lignans help balance the formation of male hormones that are responsible for hair loss."{Mens Health Magazine. Sep 2005, p.54]

Ordinary Flaxseed oil softgels can be bad only because like white bread is to whole grain. The bran which contains the anti-cancer compound IP-6 is in the bran. Well, each 1,000mg flaxseed oil softgel should always be accompanied by 20mg of SDG lignans per softgel thats why many supplement companies now provide 20mg SDG lignans per flaxseed oil softgel like Jarrow Formulas Flax Max sotfgels:

http://www.jarrow.co....php?prodid=220

[mike250]

Hey stillheader stop wasting your money on fish oil, and taken 3 softgels of Organic Flaxseed oil for only $6.59 for 200 softgels giving at least 1,200mg ALA plus 60mg of lignans. Just take daily with first meal:

http://www.swansonvi...CatalogId=10051

FLAXSEED OIL IS SUPERIOR TO FISH OIL, HERE'S WHY:

Increasing folate may increase blood levels of DHA an omega 3. Folate helps transport stored DHA from the liver into the bloodstream. [Mens Health Magazine, May 2006,p.40]

"A healthy man should get 1.6g of ALA per day."
[Prevention Magazine, May 2006, p.26]

But, supplementation with DHA directly (an omega-3 fatty acid found in fish oil) in healthy young men has been shown to decrease the activity of immune cells, such as natural killer (NK) cells, and to inhibit certain measures of inflammation in the test tube.17

17. Kelley DS, Taylor PC, Nelson GJ, et al. Docosahexaenoic acid ingestion inhibits natural killer cell activity and production of inflammatory mediators in young healthy men. [Lipids 1999;34:317–24]

But, supplementing with veggie Omega 3-ALA has shown to opposite immune system promoting not suppressing like DHA:

"Fight Disease with Flax. A 1-gram increase in daily intake of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA)can reduce a man's risk of developing pneumonia by 31%. ALA is an omega-3 fat that helps decrease infection risk by quelling inflammation and regulating blood sugar."[Mens Health Magazine, Feb 2006,p.40]

Flaxseed Oil Lowers Blood Pressure. The flaxseed
oil participants had on average a drop in their
systolic (top number) blood pressure from 120 to 110
mm Hg. Their diastolic (bottom number) blood pressures
dropped from 80 to 70 mm Hg.[Heart 2006; 92, 166–169]

Dietary supplementation with flaxseed oil lowers blood pressure.[Eur J Clin Nutr, 1/31/07]

"Fish haters can get strong bones too. Diets high in
alpha-linolenic acid may promote strong bones.[Nutrition Journal, January 16, 2007]

Fish Consumption Linked to Heart Abnormality.Fish oil & eating fish may actually boost the risk of atrial fibrillation in healthy people. It's possible that fish may promote the development of atrial fibrillation in healthy people but prevent it in people with heart conditions. American Heart Association only recommends fish or fish oil for those with heart disease.[Physicians' Health Study May 18, 2006]

"Alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) An Omega-3 fat found in a long term French Study to lower the risk of fatal heart attack by over one-third."[Prescription for Natural Healing Third Edition,(2000),p.418]

Men who gradually lose their hair at the front and/or crown of the head, beginning in their mid-twenties, are 50% more likely to develop prostate cancer.[Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2000;9:523-7]

"HAIR-TRIGGER DIABETES. Young men with thinning ahir are at greater risk of diabetes. Those who started balding before age 30 were more likely to be insulin resistant-raising their risk of diabetes- than men with hair to spare. If you see scalp in your 20s, get a fasting blood-glucose test. Levels over 100mg per deciliter signal trouble."[Mens Health Magazine, Mar 2007, p.38]

"FLAXEN HAIR. Men who were losing their hair on 50mg a day of lignans, phytonutrients found in flaxseed. Flax may halt the progress of a receding hairline. Flax lignans help balance the formation of male hormones  that are responsible for hair loss."{Mens Health Magazine. Sep 2005, p.54]

Ordinary Flaxseed oil softgels can be bad only because like white bread is to whole grain. The bran which contains the anti-cancer compound IP-6 is in the bran. Well, each 1,000mg flaxseed oil softgel should always be accompanied by 20mg of SDG lignans per softgel thats why many supplement companies now provide 20mg SDG lignans per flaxseed oil softgel like Jarrow Formulas Flax Max sotfgels:

http://www.jarrow.co....php?prodid=220

what about the idea that flaxseed oil can potentially increase your estrogen levels.

[maxwatt]

Hey stillheader stop wasting your money on fish oil, and taken 3 softgels of Organic Flaxseed oil for only $6.59 for 200 softgels giving at least 1,200mg ALA plus 60mg of lignans. Just take daily with first meal:
.....

There are two problems with flaxseed oil; the first is rancidity. It is so prone to oxidation and crosslinking, that the usual safeguards in handling a vegetable oil are insufficient. These properties are what make it the best natural vehicle for paints (it's also known as linseed oil.) It is not an ideal supplement for this reason. The seeds, however, do not go rancid until the seed-coat is broken. Grinding and eating the seeds would be better than taking pills whose freshness is suspect despite the most careful handling.

The second problem with flaxseed oil's use as a supplement is that the omega-3 oils in flax do not bypass processing by delta-5 desaturase, so their uptake is rate-limited by the the body's natural supply of this enzyme. This is probably why it does not have the deleterious effects Miriam's reference noted for DHA. However, as one ages, or if one takes other substances that block delta-5 desaturase (aspirin, other NSAIDS, certain drugs), in the case of some disease states, or as one ages -- the body's supply of delta-5 desaturase diminishes, decade by decade-- then one will benefit with EPA supplements, and not so much from flaxseed.

The only vegetable source of omega-3 I know of that possibly bypasses delta-5 desaturase rate-limitation is steatic acid, found in expensive supplements as black currant oil. Cold-water fish such as tuna, salmon, sardines and others, contain hefty amounts of EPA, and lesser amounts of DHA. So does wild game, and farmed venison and buffalo. One nutritionist recommended eating fish three times a week instead of supplementing. I follow this advice; when I don't eat these foods, after three days I'll start taking EPA capsules. Like anything else, it is possible to get too much, but people's needs vary. An 18 year-old could probably get enough through a diet that contained adequate amounts of any omega-3. But an 80-year old would have to supplement with EPA for optimal health. Lots of fish, or fish-oil capsules. You have to determine for yourself what is optimal for your body.

I suspect it is excess intake of EPA and or DHA that is accounting for the effects Miriam warned of.

(edited for clarity)

Edited by maxwatt, 16 May 2007 - 01:28 PM.

[edward]

Back to quercetin...

In reference to fearfrost's posted regimine with quercetin:

I agree with health nutty that that seems like a lot of quercetin, simply because if it is not stabilized it has been shown to inhibit SIRT and I wouldn't want that kind of resveratrol to quercetin ratio (activator to potential inhibitor). I don't want to destroy the positives of my Resveratrol supplementation by being overzealous with a potential synergist. I'm leaning towards AOR's ratio of 2 to 1 as in two parts Resveratrol to one part Quercetin (or less) with a good dose of vitamin c.

I haven't added quercetin as a part of my daily Resveratrol stack, though when I have tried the two together I do get a greater subjective effect and I am finally being convinced by what I have read that adding it would be a good thing. So I am thinking about adding it at a ratio of 2 to 1 or less.

So possibly with my AM and PM dosing of Resveratrol at 400mg adding 200mg quercetin with 800 mg Vit C

What do other people think? What dosages of quercetin with Resveratrol is everyone taking?

Edited by edward, 17 May 2007 - 04:24 AM.

[sUper GeNius]

Back to quercetin...

In reference to fearfrost's posted regimine with quercetin:

I agree with health nutty that that seems like a lot of quercetin, simply because if it is not stabilized it has been shown to inhibit SIRT and I wouldn't want that kind of resveratrol to quercetin ratio (activator to potential inhibitor). I don't want to destroy the positives of my Resveratrol supplementation by being overzealous with a potential synergist. I'm leaning towards AOR's ratio of 2 to 1 as in two parts Resveratrol to one part Quercetin (or less) with a good dose of vitamin c.

I haven't added quercetin as a part of my daily Resveratrol stack, though when I have tried the two together I do get a greater subjective effect and I am finally being convinced by what I have read that adding it would be a good thing. So I am thinking about adding it at a ratio of 2 to 1 or less.

So possibly with my AM and PM dosing of Resveratrol  at 400mg adding 200mg quercetin with 800 mg Vit C

What do other people think? What dosages of quercetin with Resveratrol is everyone taking?

I am taking the AOR product. Trust me, (read my last few posts in the 500mg club thread,) the quercitin/luteolin/piperine mix definitely was inhibiting my P450 'zimes, just as intended. Hopefully it is increasing my free t-res levels as well.

I can happily report that today I took my Paxil 8 hours after my morning does of AOR acta-tres, and I had no problems.

Edited by tobar8, 17 May 2007 - 05:12 AM.