1708 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

Just to be clear I'm taking 1.2g of 50% extract or 600mg of tres without any issues.

Btw, emodin is unfortunately not listed on the COA for the BAC resveratrol. I asked for one and told them I was mostly interested in the emodin content. They responded saying they will mail me the COA but emodin content is not listed. Then they said, "The owner believes it is low, but is not backed up in the COA." I tried one 400mg (200mg tres) dose and got no laxative effect (even though I'm not done with the Country life caps). Not much solid info, but it's what I've got.

[saxiephon]

RevGenetics is selling a 1000 mg capsule containing 500 mg of TR. I asked for the emodin content and they responded with 25 to 65 mg per capsule depending on the batch.

[maxwatt]

RevGenetics is selling a 1000 mg capsule containing 500 mg of TR. I asked for the emodin content and they responded with 25 to 65 mg per capsule depending on the batch.

Their price per gram is considerably higher than Country Life and Bioforte, which are neck in neck for high dose capsules. The emodin content in these seems to be tolerable for people who have posted here, though this may not be so for doses over 800 mg to 1000 resveratrol a day. BAC's powder is the best buy so far, but it's not encapsulated.

[saxiephon]

It will be interesting when we can see the true analyses for these various products side by side.

[tintinet]

[/quote]...If enough people chipped in I could have a sample tested specifically for trans- and cis-resveratrol, and emodin. Bacteria, fungus, and heavy metals are other possibilities, but I trust Country Life completely in this regard, and believe the others are taking reasonable precautions as well. It would probably be a waste of time.

I think that a cooperative purchase of bulk powder can be made (with independent testing), which would bring the final cost/gm to not more than half that of the BAC powder.[/quote]

I've seen reference to several high purity/percentage RSV extracts (~98% or greater). For the bulk powder purchase you mention, are you referring to 50% extract or higher percentage extracts?

[tintinet]

  ...I think that a cooperative purchase of bulk powder can be made (with independent testing), which would bring the final cost/gm to not more than half that of the BAC powder.

50% powder extract, or higher?

[stephen_b]

I have to wonder whether resveratrol might end up improving the performance of distance athletes like marathon runners or cyclists. I'll bet some are trying it out right now.

Maybe I'll renew my aspirations to run a sub 4 hour marathon ...

Stephen

[maxwatt]

50% powder extract, or higher?

50% is cheaper per gram of resveratrol, it's ok if the emodin content is low enough. However, a shortage of material is developing. I'll know next week what is still available.

[valjean]

Hello,

I'm taking resveratrol (~80mg) since December 2006 and like some others here I felt a rather quick mood enhancing effect taking it for the first time (after approx 30 min) but this effect fades away with time but not to the basal level.

My wife laughed about me if I told her (she was initially very sceptic about it). But
when she started taking it she stopped laughing about me, because she felt the same.

Then for two weeks our resveratrol stock runs out and we have to wait for a shipment of Nature's way + Bioforte.

Again I started taking (2) x Nature's + 2 x CL in the 1x morning and 1x evening (with one glass of French red wine) ~600mg. And then there was it again
initially much stronger (dose dependend ?) but fades away after 2-3 days.

Now my mood and energy is enhance through the day but the initial effect is not
present any longer.

In the recent few years I used to wake up 2-3 time and rememering
my dreams tends against zero. This has now changed substantially:
most of the time I sleep all night long with rich and colorful dreams.

Maybe some of you have some opinions about what concerned me about the
mice experiments:

The mice were fed their resveratrol with the diet and I can imagine that some
of the (so little) resv molecules may take their way through mucous membrane
directly (unmetabolized) into the bloodstream. But if I just take a pill all the stuff
is forced to pass the liver before entering circulation. I think I heard some time
that e.g. alcohol can be directly absorbed by the capillary system in the mouth.
What are you thinking of it ?

Edited by valjean, 12 April 2007 - 06:27 AM.

[shadowrun]

I think that a cooperative purchase of bulk powder can be made (with independent testing), which would bring the final cost/gm to not more than half that of the BAC powder.

I'd be interested -

[tintinet]

Hello,

I'm taking resveratrol (~80mg) since December 2006 and like some others here I felt a rather quick mood enhancing effect taking it for the first time (after approx 30 min) but this effect fades away with time but not to the basal level.

My wife laughed about me if I told her (she was initially very sceptic about it). But
when she started taking it she stopped laughing about me, because she felt the same.

Then for two weeks our resveratrol stock runs out and we have to wait for a shipment of Nature's way + Bioforte.

Again I started taking  (2) x Nature's + 1 x Bioforte in the 1x morning and 1x evening (with one glass of French red wine) ~600mg. And then there was it again
initially much stronger (dose dependend ?) but fades away after 2-3 days.

Now my mood and energy is enhance through the day but the initial effect is not
present any longer.

In the recent few years I used to wake up 2-3 time and rememering
my dreams tends against zero. This has now changed substantially:
most of the time I sleep all night long with rich and colorful dreams.

Maybe some of you have some opinions about what concerned me about the
mice experiments:

  The mice were fed their resveratrol with the diet and I can imagine that some
  of the (so little) resv molecules may take their way through mucous membrane
  directly (unmetabolized) into the bloodstream. But if I just take a pill all the stuff
  is forced to pass the liver before entering circulation. I think I heard some time
  that e.g. alcohol can be directly absorbed by the capillary system in the mouth.
  What are you thinking of it ?

IME: 1. If any change in energy, it's subtle, if real. Sometimes seems to provide energy,
but not a fast high type- more enduring and sustaining. Right now, post breakfast with ~400 mg
res-v included, I'm quite somnolent, but relaxed, both physically and mentally.

2. Dreams. Mine also seem to be more vivid and I remember them more often and more clearly
since upping dose res-v.

3. ETOH ideas. Res-v bong? Mouthwash? So far, I'm just taking it with food, although my diet
has added omega 3s (including 1 g EPA/day), it falls far short of 60% fat (Sinclair study rodent diet).

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Everyone,

My Name is Anthony Loera from RevGenetics.

I was googling "revgenetics" today while I was eating lunch (yes...I am a Google fanatic), and found this post, along with some others.

I just wanted to post some thoughts that might clear things up regarding our small company:

+ I truly believe RevGenetics was the first company that made R500, thats our single capsule with 500mg of Resveratrol.

+ I read here that much of the conversation is about emodin. Well, our emodin content is between 25mg to 65mg we are working on reducing this. We believe that we will need to have a 90% purity or better to have this be a non-issue for everyone, but the process increases the price. Now I will say that our company started because we couldn't find a good source of Resveratrol, as my partners and I wanted to use it personally. I now use it everyday, at 2 grams a day (thats 4 R500 pills). So what has that done to me? Well, I can say that I am now 'regular' on a daily basis, and some folks may find this as a good thing, and I believe it is the emodin content in the pills. Being regular for me is a good thing, I know when I will be going, and it's never a surprise. My wife finds it pretty funny that I talk about this, but it's true. Now for the folks who just can't live without a Resveratrol capsule that has the lowest amount of emodin, we will see if we can come out with a new product for you, I will say that it will simply cost more that our current selection.

+ Website: Hehe...Fearfrost mentions that our website is ugly and made by a kid or something, and he may be correct, it's probably not the best on the internet. But it is simple, and to the point as our concentration has been on providing Resveratrol. So we may need some tips on the website design if you have any.

+ Our FAQ has the following claim: "provides the best price per milligram of Resveratrol"... if this has changed, please show us. For the average consumer who wants a bottle of 120 pills each conveniently with 500mg of Resveratrol, well... I still believe this still holds true. If you want to buy wholesale by the kilogram, encapsulate it, and bottle it yourself, it may not hold true. But that is the same with most products. If you buy a large amount, you will get better pricing, that's what Wallmart does, as well as so many other businesses.

+ Affiliates: We are still looking for good affiliate mechanisms out there. We currently use salesflurry.com, paydotcom.com (kinda sounds redundant), and have an account with others that appear to be 'software only' affiliate mechanisms. Many affiliate programs out there simply account for electronic ebooks, down loadable software, and basically stuff that a brick and mortar company can't really do, as we tend to have a physical inventory. Please let us know what you believe are programs, that will help folks who like our product, and want to tell the world. We don't have issues with giving affiliates who believe we have a decent product, our marketing dollars, if a sale is generated from their site. This is the internet, and regarding marketing, it's still the wild west.

+ Competition: we try to check what our competition is doing, and change our pricing, strategy, etc... that's what companies do. If you find others that suddenly have better pricing, change in products, etc... that you think will really make a difference in what people want, drop me a line at my email: anthony @ RevGenetics.com...

We are a growing company that uses it's own product, I do everyday. Some have asked me the questions that everybody wants to know.. "Does it make you feel better? Do you notice a difference? What has it done for you?...

My experience is the following:
I have a one year old, and in the middle of the night, I feel like I can put up with his tantrums better because I am not as groggy... maybe it's the resveratrol, maybe it's that I suddenly love my son even more than I did 5 months ago, I find the latter silly, as I cannot see myself loving him less 5 months ago.

2 weeks ago I helped my brother in-law move, and found myself confused because I was not tired after the heavy lifting... my fingers hurt because they weren't used to lifting heavy furniture, but the rest of my body was ready to go. This really solidified my belief in this product. I am no athlete, I am an office worker, and have helped other folks move... but this was the first time I didn't feel like I wanted to go home and veg out afterwards.

I have been living on less sleep... I am one of those people who NEEDS 8 hours to rest, and recently without aiming for it, I found I was sleeping much less than this, and still feeling ok on a daily basis.

These are the noticeable things I can tell you, that have happened since I have been taking Resveratrol. Oh, yeah, that and being regular... hehe.



Now that you know a little about me, and RevGenetics, I ask you to let me know your thoughts on Resveratrol, and how we can benefit folks while giving them a good product. Like I say in my FAQ, on my website... we aim only to make 25% on this product, so that we can make it available to most people. We aren't in it for the profit, but we certainly want to succeed, help our community by employing new people as it grows, make a living, and help folks with a good product.

I hope you can help us leave our footprints in the sand and email me, or leave a post. Give me your thoughts on RevGenetics and where you think it should go. I will listen.

Thanks

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

[edbear]

What I personally wish for is a slow-release form! Since the metabolization of Resv is rapid and the status of the metabolites in prompting the same activity is uncertain, I'd be much happier with a formulation which released Resv at a slow rate through the day, if such a thing were possible.

Plus the lower emodin would certainly be nice as well.

[health_nutty]

Hi Everyone,
.. I now use it everyday, at 2 grams a day (thats 4 R500 pills). So what has that done to me? Well, I can say that I am now 'regular' on a daily basis, and some folks may find this as a good thing, and I believe it is the emodin content in the pills. Being regular for me is a good thing, I know when I will be going, and it's never a surprise. My wife finds it pretty funny that I talk about this, but it's true. Now for the folks who just can't live without a Resveratrol capsule that has the lowest amount of emodin, we will see if we can come out with a new product for you, I will say that it will simply cost more that our current selection.

That is a hefty dose of trans-resveratrol. [:o]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I hope you continue to visit our forums and give us updates. [thumb]

[Anthony_Loera]

edbear,

we are talking to a german company regarding a new technique that may accomplish this. It's still up in the air at this time, but we hope to see if we can accomplish this...


thanks
Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

[curious_sle]

hm, 2000mg/day? I'd have to guess your weight but reading some on your webpage i kinda guess someone is either not applying some scaling factor to calculate human dosage or someone is trying to emulate the massive dose used in that french experiment with the superathlete mice :-). I mean, even one 500mg cap for me would be close to 9mg/kg/d!

[edbear]

The Baur and Sinclair review from June (PMID: 16732220) mentions Phase I trials of Resv anticancer activity going as high as 7.5 g/person/day - it will be really interesting to see those results one day. I certainly wouldn't try that for the time being, and once (if) the newer derivatives are available the whole argument would probably become academic anyway.

[malbecman]

Sign me up????? ;-)

http://www.clinicalt...how/NCT00098969



Hmm, maybe not. Still, will be interesting to see how high the MTD will be:


Quote:
OUTLINE: This is an open-label, dose-escalation, multicenter study.

Beginning 5 days before study drug administration, participants are put on a controlled diet (avoiding all resveratrol-containing food or drink) for washout. Participants receive oral resveratrol once on day 1.

Cohorts of 10 participants receive escalating doses of resveratrol until the maximum tolerated dose (MTD) is determined. The MTD is defined as the dose preceding that at which 2 of 10 participants experience dose-limiting toxicity. A total of 16 participants are treated at the MTD.

Participants are followed at 2 and 7 days.

PROJECTED ACCRUAL: A total of 10-40 participants will be accrued for this study within 6 months.

Edited by malbecman, 09 February 2007 - 12:37 AM.

[tintinet]

No thanks! Toxicity bites!

[maxwatt]

hm, 2000mg/day? I'd have to guess your weight but reading some on your webpage i kinda guess someone is either not applying some scaling factor to calculate human dosage or someone is trying to emulate the massive dose used in that french experiment with the superathlete mice :-). I mean, even one 500mg cap for me would be close to 9mg/kg/d!

There does seem to be a linear dose/response ratio for many of the things they have tested for. I would think increased doses are in some ways beneficial, up to the point where negative effects are seen. In toxicology tests with rats, 300/mg/kg had no downside, but 1000 mg/kg produced increased incidence of nephrological problems, lesions and tumors, if I recall. The Auwerx paper cited increased number and vitality of mitochondria at 400 mg/kg, so we can assume for rats the maximal dose is between 400 mg/kg and 1000 mg/kg. In humans with the appropriate scaling factor for weight and body volume, this would mean that up to 7 gm/day for a 70 kg man would likely have no deleterious effect. This is assuming a lot, and caution would dictate no more than half that, even if you like to live dangerously. Or humans may be able to metabolize higher amounts than the rat/equivalent; certainly we have better cancer repair mechanisms, and might not have the same problems. Chinese herbal literature mentions overdoses of Fo-ti, an herb that at various times has been confounded with Polygonum cuspidatum, our main source of resveratrol. (I cannot translate the amount, 14 grams of root processed to remove the laxative principle, into dosage recommendations in a meaningful way, but the overdose amount in the old herbals is equivalent to 14 grams a day. Today Fo-ti is considered to be a different species of Polygonum.) The symptoms, though, just might be what a resveratrol overdose in humans would look like: peripheral neuropathy, or tingling and numbness of fingers and toes. This was reversed when patients stopped taking the herb. This is from the "New Chinese Pharmacopia", which is 400 years old.

Is anyone taking high doses of resveratrol experiencing tingling in their fingers or toes?

The main obstacle to taking high doses of resveratrol, besides prudence and expense, is the emodin content. Even low-emodin extracts, at 50% resveratrol, contain enough emodin that most people would be uncomfortable taking more than the equivalent of 500 or 600 gm of resveratrol a day. Synthetic resveratrol, or high purity herbal extracts, would forestall that.

Of course we are assuming that Sinclair is correct in his thesis that SIRT activation by resveratrol mimics calorie restriction. Some researchers claim otherwise. In that case all we have is a performance enhancing drug that makes old people feel young and young people feel like atheletes.

[tom a]

In toxicology tests with rats, 300/mg/kg had no downside, but 1000 mg/kg produced increased incidence of nephrological problems, lesions and tumors, if I recall.

I think that those symptoms were at a higher dosage level -- 3000mg/kg as I recall. The symptoms noticed at a lower dosage were, as I recollect, relatively innocous sounding -- the worst being somewhat elevated white cell count.

[tom a]

In general, my own concern about "toxicity" has relatively little to do with the standard types of toxicity -- e.g., liver problems, etc. -- which mostly derive from the metabolization of the substance in question.

Rather, if there's a concern in my mind, it has to do with any bad side effects of the very cell activity we are basically counting on: namely, consequences of the activation of the relevant genes.

I would expect that, at least on occasion, those very activities might in the rare individual actualize bad pre-existing dispositions that might otherwise have been dormant.

This is a little bit like the problem that CR seems to sometimes pose, namely that there are conditions which it actually may aggravate. ALS would seem to be one of them -- and of course Wolford himself died of this ailment.

For all that, it does certainly seem that on balance the upside seems simply to overwhelm the downside in both resveratrol and CR - the simply massive numbers that show up in favor swamp those against, in terms of the things we care about most, namely health and length of life. If the defects introduced were of great number, they too should show up even in these limited studies.

[tom a]

Just as an aside, I do speculate that CR-mimetics such as resveratrol likely hold far greater promise for extending life than does CR itself.

At some point I might present the speculation (and certainly that's all it is) in more detail, but the short argument is that CR-mimetics may likely enable the positive effects of CR without the negative effects of partial or full starvation.

[maxwatt]

"In toxicology tests with rats, 300/mg/kg had no downside, but 1000 mg/kg produced increased incidence of nephrological problems, lesions and tumors, if I recall."

I think that those symptoms were at a higher dosage level -- 3000mg/kg as I recall. The symptoms noticed at a lower dosage were, as I recollect, relatively innocous sounding -- the worst being somewhat elevated white cell count.

There were symptoms at 1000 mg/kg as well, less severe than at 3000 mg/kg but still worrisome. And likely to get worse with continued administration.

[tom a]

maxwatt,

Here's the relevant portion of the abstract of the study in question,

To evaluate the potential toxicity of resveratrol, rats were administered by gavage 0, 300, 1000, and 3000 mg trans-resveratrol per kilogram body weight per day for 4 weeks. Most of the adverse events occurred in the rats administered 3000 mg per kilogram body weight per day. These included increased clinical signs of toxicity; reduced final body weights and food consumption; elevated BUN, creatinine, alkaline phosphatase, alanine aminotransferase, total bilirubin, and albumin; reduced hemoglobin, hematocrit, and red cell counts; and increased white cell counts. Increases in kidney weights and clinically significant renal lesions, including an increased incidence and severity of nephropathy, were observed. Diffuse epithelial hyperplasia in the bladder was considered, equivocal and of limited biological significance. No histological effects on the liver were observed, despite the clinical chemistry changes and increased liver weights in the females. Effects seen in the group administered 1000 mg resveratrol per kilogram body weight per day included reduced body weight gain (females only) and elevated white blood cell count (males only)... Under the conditions of this study, the noobserved adverse effect level was 300mg resveratrol per kilogram body weight per day in rats.

link:

http://171.66.120.17...eprint/82/2/614

The significant effects would seem to be at the 3000mg/kg level.

Of course, you're probably right that if the dosages were continued beyond 4 weeks, the worse effects would be introduced at a lower dosage.

[niner]

My god, 3000 mg/kg is like me eating a half a pound of resveratrol a day! Considering that, I would say it was pretty well tolerated. Can you think of any pure chemical that you could eat a half pound a day of and not have problems? The acute toxicity in rodents is clearly negligable. How this translates to 5 mg/kg in humans is still an open question. Bear in mind that dose responses are not linear things. With enormous doses, you may see effects like depletion of metabolic cofactors or physical injury of the kidneys or bladder that simply have no bearing on normal doses no matter how long you take them. People have been taking resveratrol for several years now, and I haven't heard of any negative outcomes.

[health_nutty]

I'm taking 600mg per day now (1 cap with every feeding).  I haven't noticed any significant laxative effect after the first two days (much less the second day).  The energy boost is also gone (or I've gotten used to it).  No noticable gains in endurance or unusual gains in weightlifting.

I'm still taking the 600mg (have now switched to BAC for cost reasons). The energy is definitely still there, I've just gotten used to it. I've noticed I can get by with less sleep and I don't *need* caffeine like I used to. It's not a caffeine like speeding, its just a lack of fatigue. It is sort of the opposite: I have a Zen like calm and it is easier for me to handle stressful situations. Mood is good too, but that hasn't been a problem. I'm feeling really really great overall. Even if tres does nothing else, it is well worth it for me for these benefits alone.

[Anthony_Loera]

My god, 3000 mg/kg is like me eating a half a pound of resveratrol a day!  Considering that, I would say it was pretty well tolerated.  Can you think of any pure chemical that you could eat a half pound a day of and not have problems?  The acute toxicity in rodents is clearly negligable.  How this translates to 5 mg/kg in humans is still an open question.  Bear in mind that dose responses are not linear things.  With enormous doses, you may see effects like depletion of metabolic cofactors or physical injury of the kidneys or bladder that simply have no bearing on normal doses no matter how long you take them.  People have been taking resveratrol for several years now, and I haven't heard of any negative outcomes.

1 pound = 453.59237 grams
1 pound = 453 592.37 milligrams

3000mg = 3 g

half a pound would actually be more than 220,000 mg

[caston]

>>>  know that Duke Nukem has been taking around 420mg a day for a while.

Ya know, I'm going to try to have the real Duke refer to resveratrol in the next game.  It's just a matter of somehow making fit the game.

I'd love it if you throw in some more references to imminst and life extension. Maybe have the logo somewhere and related books or the dvd lying around

[fearfrost]

revgenetics, maybe you should consider that niner wrote 3000 mg/kg.... not just 3000 mg. Recheck your math and you will see that niner is correct. (To give you a hint: average male weights ~70-90 kg)

side note: be very cautious of RevGenetics and its product (R500). Not that i have to tell most people here that, but I dont want anyone who stumbles upon this site to make a mistake.