1708 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

indeed.

I calculate at 6 grams he is just under the amount likely to cause problems -- extrapolating from toxicity studies in rats. I hope his scale is accurate.

[tom a]

Well, even if resveratrol's effect conforms to a U shaped curve, 6gms/day is pretty close to the amount that Auwerx's mice received, by my calculations, taking the usual adjustments for differences in metabolic rates. Auxwerx mice lost weight even with very high fat diets, and also developed athletic muscles, as well as apparently very healthy tissues in many organs.

On the other hand, the scaling factors between mice and human beings are inexact. Moreover, the Auwerx mice were not followed throughout their lives. Also, obviously, mice are not human beings in any case. It's really very much uncharted territory.

I suppose I couldn't see undertaking such a dose personally unless I felt I was in very desperate circumstances.

[eternaltraveler]

indeed.

I calculate at 6 grams he is just under the amount likely to cause problems -- extrapolating from toxicity studies in rats. I hope his scale is accurate.

please keep in mind that rats and mice have higher metabolisms than humans, also they may metabolize this differently than humans do. Taking 6 grams a day poses an unreasonable risk.

[eternaltraveler]

I suppose I couldn't see undertaking such a dose personally unless I felt I was in very desperate circumstances.

thank you

[health_nutty]

As to heroics, etc., I am not sure it really applies.  If there are any adverse results, I will pull back quickly.  I just can't help but think that the 5mg level is way too low and have been at 11/mg/kg for a year before going over the top with the current dosage.

Opus

What changes have you noticed at 11mg/kg/day? Did you feel more energy? Better sleep? Any changes in resting heart rate, blood pressure, cholesterol levels? I would love to hear about your experiences. Also, do you notice a greater difference (same questions) at 6 grams a day?

[steelheader]

Jack,
I'm interested in people's annecdotal accounts of their experiences with res, and am willing to share my own. And if you write an article based on accounts on this board I would read it with interest.

However....earlier in this thread you stated that you saw a conflict between evidence of "similar content" of brands of res and evidence of differing "biological activity" among brands. (The tests were performed several years ago, the results of one of which is on the Longevinex web site.) You expressed the belief that anecdotal accounts on this forum would break the "tie" in the conflict.

A few points...

1) We have no evidence of similar content of the various brands tested several years ago. We don't even have the names of the brands.

2) If the tests were valid and did show a difference in biological activity among brands, that was evidence that content of the various brands was not similar. There was no conflict between evidence of similarity and evidence of differing biological activity among the brands.

3) The res content of the unknown brands tested several years ago has no bearing on the res content of the brands currently being consumed by people currently posting on this forum. And vice versa.

The annecdotal accounts of people's experiences with res can't tell us anything useful about various brands. An unbiased analysis of content could do that. Hopefully the soon to be released Consumer Labs report will provide some useful information.

[maxwatt]

indeed.

I calculate at 6 grams he is just under the amount likely to cause problems -- extrapolating from toxicity studies in rats. I hope his scale is accurate.

please keep in mind that rats and mice have higher metabolisms than humans, also they may metabolize this differently than humans do. Taking 6 grams a day poses an unreasonable risk.

Of course; Auwerx rats were getting 400 mg/kg a day, without the minor kidney problems in rats receiving 1000 mg/kg a day in toxicity studies. The next highest dose in that study, 3000 mg/kg, was associated with definite abnormalities and some deaths. Dehydration was a major symptom. True, there are uncertainties translating this to a human dose, but scaling for body mass by a 4/3 power, considering a rat weighs about 200 grams, will work out to a dose of 7 or 8 grams a day in a 70 kg human, as equivalent to the 400 mg/kg in Auwerx study. More than that may be safe, or relatively safe. Human volunteers have taken 20 grams with no adverse effect. Human toxicity studies are underway, and then we'll have a better idea for chronic doses.

At this time I think 6 grams a day is the greatest amount likely to be safe, and would caution against going any higher. Our friend seems to be thriving on 6 grams a day, and hasn't yet grown a third eye.

Sidenote: although such a dose in rats increased the number and size of mitochondria, and thus the animals' endurance, it did not restore the mitochondrial membrane potential to youthful levels. Acetyl-l-carnitine would possibly do that.

[health_nutty]

I didn't think it, but I am REALLY adjusting to that emodin. Now, no effects on 5 country life pills per day.

Wow, you're up to 5! Can you report in your experience at that dosage? (energy, sleep, mood, etc?)

[steelheader]

Does anyone know of a reason why Ashwagandha might counter the effects of resveratrol?

I find that rhodiola complements res very well but when I attempt to add Ashwagandha to my regime, it feels like the effects of res are greatly diminished.

[tintinet]

Energy has been much increased, but it's too soon to say. I've noticed a definite cognitive boost. I find that if I take resveratrol shortly before sleep, I wake up naturally at about 5am, which is why I am making this post. I'd call it a problem sleep disturbance but I'm wide awake as if it were morning. I haven't been describing things at this dose yet because I believe that it is too soon to say for certainty just what all of the effects are.

My sleep has been quite variable. Most of the time since starting resveratrol at higher doses, and
multiple doses throughout the day, my sleep has seemed deeper, with more vividly recalled dreams.

On one occasion, last week, I awoke after about 3 1/2 hours, stayed up all night but never felt tired
all day or on subsequent days.

I usually sleep about 6-7 hours/night.

[tintinet]

indeed.

I calculate at 6 grams he is just under the amount likely to cause problems -- extrapolating from toxicity studies in rats. I hope his scale is accurate.

Given the high doses/amounts of this product being taken, unless I had independent or highly reliable verification of the purity and
lack of contaminants, I'd also be concerned about toxic effects from accompanying substances (heavy metals, etc.).

[jack868]

Jack... Earlier in this thread you stated that you saw a conflict between evidence of "similar content" of brands of res and evidence of differing "biological activity" among brands... [and] that anecdotal accounts on this forum would break the "tie" in the conflict.

A few points...

1) We have no evidence of similar content of the various brands tested several years ago. We don't even have the names of the brands.

2) If the tests were valid and did show a difference in biological activity among brands, that was evidence that content of the various brands was not similar. There was no conflict between evidence of similarity and evidence of differing biological activity among the brands.

3) The res content of the unknown brands tested several years ago has no bearing on the res content of the brands currently being consumed by people currently posting on this forum. And vice versa.

The annecdotal accounts of people's experiences with res can't tell us anything useful about various brands. An unbiased analysis of content could do that. Hopefully the soon to be released Consumer Labs report will provide some useful information.

You make some logical points. But actually, this gets back to my earlier admission that my explanation had put things "somewhat simplistically." Once they were explained in full, I think most of your objection would be answered.

Actually, it turns out that Tom A. brought up most of these same objections earlier in this forum, so I don't think I'll need to explain everything again here. I answered his questions at the time, and I think that he was mostly satisfied with the responses, although you might wanna check with him on that. ...

To review the exchange I had with Tom, please check page 8 of this forum. From the top of the page, until about 3/4 of the way down, much of that is my exchange with Tom. Again, he brought up mostly the same objections you did, & we discussed it in detail. He wanted to know why I expected the products to be different, if the content studies were showing them to be the same (there's no magic! he reasonably pointed out). He also, like you, noted that today's products have changed significantly since those existing at the time of the tests.

I agree he had some valid points -- nothing is black & white here -- but in the end, for a variety of reasons, I still continued to mostly feel that my idea would be useful. Please have a look at that exchange we had, and let me know if you think my answers to him serve as valid answers to your questions. Please note the discussion got a bit complicated, but do give it a look, as I'm interested in your views.

[valjean]

Now I'm on resveratrol since December,
And my current dose is around 600-800 mg.

The effects that I posted recently still remain present.
But now I have something to add that is related to the
apperance of my skin. Especially in the winter season
my face appears very pale, but currently I have a consistent
rose like teint all over the last few weeks. Furthermore I experience
a warm feeling on my face skin through the day and when I'm outside
and it's cold it starts prickling on my cheeks very comfortable.

Also I had some itchy red spots on my feet and hands that began
to spread out every winter season since my early childhood and this
is the first winter season I can rember, they do not appear.

On my physical examination a doctor said something about a reddish
blotchy area on my chest (about 2 inches in diameter) and I ask him
if there is a cure for bringing it to disappear, he laughed and said I it's
not so worse and I will carry this around for the rest of my life.
Ok, he is proven false now ;-)

The effects I described here are not gradually they are total and thus
undeniable and they occur on my (admittedly minor, but for years persistent)
skin problems. I have heard of people that their skin problems diminished
when taking OPCs and I'm not sure if the OPCs (that are part of the RESV
pills I take) will promote this effect or if it is the ResV or a synergistic effect.

[tintinet]

Skin changes:

Interesting. Especially the increased facial rosy glow.

I have had predominantly nasal redness, mostly fairly low grade, until quite
recently (coincides with increasing my resveratrol dose from ~60 mg QD to
~1 gram QD), inciting comments, at times, from observers.

[Anthony_Loera]

Valjean, maybe you have rosacea, which may not come from RSV? Did the doctor mention it?

http://www.rosacea.org/index.php

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

[zoolander]

Male 46yo
6’-0” 170lb <10% BF
BP 130/70
Resting Heart Rate: 40bbm

I would like to see some blood values but most importantly, I would like to see a pre- VO2max that shows your anaerobic threshold.

[xanadu]

It's getting harder to resist the urge to megadose on this stuff. Come on, talk me out of it. Isn't anyone having a bad side effect?

[stephen_b]

Here's a change I've noticed: slight weight loss. I was at 151 lb (I'm 5' 8 3/4" tall), and I'm now weighing about 144 pounds and in general looking trimmer and healthier. I haven't noticed that I've been eating less.

Stephen

[health_nutty]

It's getting harder to resist the urge to megadose on this stuff. Come on, talk me out of it. Isn't anyone having a bad side effect?

Having some inflammation of the lining of the heart, had to back off to 200 mg.

Woah! Do you think this is resveratrol related or did you cut it back as a precaution? Hope everything is okay.

[health_nutty]

Precaution. It's very mysterious.

Have you cut back your vitamin D as well?

[zoolander]

Revgenetics/Anthony if you really want to put your company ahead of the others then how about sponsoring some research. I'm a researcher/biochemist and could quiet easily introduce you to the right people. My main area of research is aging and muscle metabolism. There's a large group of academics at the university that I belong to who's main area of focus is aging/nutrigenomics.

If interested, simply PM me matey

[health_nutty]

Precaution. It's very mysterious.

Have you cut back your vitamin D as well?

Yeah, down to 10,000 IU.

Holy smokes, what were you taking before?

[niner]

Having some inflammation of the lining of the heart, had to back off to 200 mg.

Addison, have you talked to a cardiologist? My brother had this once, with a viral etiology, and his doctors wouldn't even let him get out of bed to pee. (He's fine now, and is in great shape)

[tintinet]

Valjean, maybe you have rosacea, which may not come from RSV? Did the doctor mention it?

http://www.rosacea.org/index.php

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

You may be correct (likely) about the Rosacea, at least in my
case, if not for Valjean, but, the "Rudolf effect" was much less
pronounced prior to my recently increasing my resveratrol dosage.

Edited by tintinet, 27 February 2007 - 09:26 AM.

[sablystone]

Just can't help but comment that some of the members are acting like Tres is a quick fix supplement ... not a bad idea to take 300+, but time is generaly on your side. Why not take time for personal reflection via blood work, before and after, instead of just haphazardly ramping based on someone's comment on whether they're getting the runs etc. etc.

[valjean]

Valjean, maybe you have rosacea, which may not come from RSV? Did the doctor mention it?

http://www.rosacea.org/index.php

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

Obviously you misunderstood me,

My face skin looks much more healthier than before, an I have the
feeling that it is better supplied with blood. The thing that the doctor
noticed was located on my chest an looks more like psoriasis and
worsened when I drank alcohol or eat too much sweets. But this
isn't currently an issue because dissapeared without a trace.

[jack868]

Revgenetics/Anthony if you really want to put your company ahead of the others then how about sponsoring some research. I'm a researcher/biochemist and could quiet easily introduce you to the right people. My main area of research is aging and muscle metabolism. There's a large group of academics at the university that I belong to who's main area of focus is aging/nutrigenomics.

If interested, simply PM me matey

I recall that Anthony a couple of days ago offered to "bow out" of this forum after someone complained of people hijacking the thread, and he assumed that referred to him, being as he is a seller. I think he hasn't been seen here since then. But I think you brought up a great idea so it's worth pestering him about this if he comes back. If not, he listed his email address here awhile back -- anthony @ revgenetics . com. I'll be happy to second your idea.

What kind of research are you interested in doing? I would love to see a study where mice were fed with resv. supplements of different brands, to see which works best, or whether they're all the same, as some argue. I suggested trying to figure this out through anecdotal reports, for lack of anything better, but a controlled animal study would obviously be light-years better.

[Anthony_Loera]

Revgenetics/Anthony if you really want to put your company ahead of the others then how about sponsoring some research. I'm a researcher/biochemist and could quiet easily introduce you to the right people. My main area of research is aging and muscle metabolism. There's a large group of academics at the university that I belong to who's main area of focus is aging/nutrigenomics.

If interested, simply PM me matey

Hi, as a small we have limited funds, but I also have a partner who has notified me of a bit of research he will be doing.

Thats all I can really state at this point.

BTW: I checked out BAC pricing on powder, and I believe we can meet the price without a problem, and to make things interesting we will do one better and throw in a couple of... ejem, 'accessories'. More to come as I review these in the next couple weeks.

Thanks for the post,
Anthony Loera

[Anthony_Loera]

Valjean, maybe you have rosacea, which may not come from RSV? Did the doctor mention it?

http://www.rosacea.org/index.php

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

Obviously you misunderstood me,

My face skin looks much more healthier than before, an I have the
feeling that it is better supplied with blood. The thing that the doctor
noticed was located on my chest an looks more like psoriasis and
worsened when I drank alcohol or eat too much sweets. But this
isn't currently an issue because dissapeared without a trace.

Ahh, ok... thanks for the update.

[jlgibbons]

I just want to give a BIG THANKS to everyone who contributed to this thread!!! I've found it very interesting and informative.

THANKS.

Jim