1708 replies to this topic

[tintinet]

According to the small study reported in LEF Magazine recently, apparently beneficial genetic changes are effected by relatively very low resveratrol doses, so, perhaps, relatively large doses (greater than 100 mg?) may be unnecessary.

[Ghostrider]

I do not feel as energetic as I did last week.  I am suspecting that my effects might have been mostly placebo, but I know my mood was better and I recall having more energy. 

I had the same effect - about three weeks of amazing energy and lost appetite, which then went away and hasn't returned. I suspect it may not have been entirely placebo, but in the absence of any additional evidence that's where I'm classifying it.

That being said I still find I have a higher tolerance for exercise now than I've had in a while.

I dunno, maybe it was not placebo effect. I experimented with about 18 supplements ranging from vitamin C to piracetam to modafinil for more energy, mood boost, cognitive enhancement. Aside from modafinil and adrafinil which only served to keep me up all night, none of the other supps did anything noticable. I still take many, but not for cognitive enhancement, for overall health -- Ortho Core, CoQ10, Bacopa, Vitamin C, Fish Oil, Centrophexine, piracetam, etc. So if I was susceptible to placebo, I think I would have also found the placebo effect when experimenting with these other supps as well. But I did not.

[health_nutty]

I dunno, maybe it was not placebo effect.  I experimented with about 18 supplements ranging from vitamin C to piracetam to modafinil for more energy, mood boost, cognitive enhancement.  Aside from modafinil and adrafinil which only served to keep me up all night, none of the other supps did anything noticable.  I still take many, but not for cognitive enhancement, for overall health -- Ortho Core, CoQ10, Bacopa, Vitamin C, Fish Oil, Centrophexine, piracetam, etc.  So if I was susceptible to placebo, I think I would have also found the placebo effect when experimenting with these other supps as well.  But I did not.

Ditto for me.

The only other supps I feel something from are the one's I'm supposed to: ginseng, ALCAR, etc.

[Ghostrider]

Yeah, ginseng is pretty good too. ALCAR might do something very subtle for me, but it's too hard to tell to justify the cost. I use it for longevity though.

[markymark]

I found this article in the most recent issue of Nutraceuticals World
http://www.nutraceut...nch-paradox.php

[tintinet]

Nice that more supplement/food suppliers are taking an interest in high purity resveratrol supplements, albeit liberally seasoned with Sardi propaganda!

[rfarris]

ALCAR might do something very subtle for me...

You wouldn't find it subtle if you took enough of it. Try a couple of grams once, just to find out. If you are feeling flush, get a bottle of GeroNova's CarnitinePlus, which is a combination of ALCAR and L-Carnitine-Orotate. Two capsules of that will make you whistle while you work.

[shadowrun]

Try this, if you don't mind. Take 300 mg / 130 lbs of Country Life Resveratrol Plus just once in the morning for one day and tell me how you feel compared to your usual dosage. On the second week of taking my higher than usual dosage of 200 mg (tried 300 mg for first time today), I do not feel as energetic as I did last week. I am suspecting that my effects might have been mostly placebo, but I know my mood was better and I recall having more energy. Or maybe I am building up tolerance to the stuff

Ghostrider -

I have only tried BAC and Country Life and I only "feel" better with the Country Life
- I'm going to try out your experiment with another brand soon just to test this effect

[hormoneman]

RevGenetics is selling me 1kg of Resveratrol 50% powder for 520. This allows me to make about 1000 capsules, or a little more than 8(120 capsule) bottles of RevGenetics R500. At 1000mg per day yielding 500mg trans-resveratrol that will last my wife and myself 500 days - cost will be $1.00per day pp


Anyone else interested??

[Ghostrider]

Ghostrider -

I have only tried BAC and Country Life and I only "feel" better with the Country Life
- I'm going to try out your experiment with another brand soon just to test this effect

I tried Nature's Way before trying Country Life. I felt nothing from Nature's Way (although the dosage was lower). I think I only went up to about 90 mg on that stuff. Still, felt nothing.

Today, I tried 4 capsules of Country Life which should be 400 mg Res. I have had only 1 SOBE fruit drink today and it is 4:30 and I have no appetite. Would not mind eating, but I do not feel hungry. The appetite suppression is definite, it seems to take away my desire to eat. I feel normal though, not as good as I felt last week. Maybe I am not eating enough and this factor is canceling out the energy boost I felt last week.

[shadowrun]

A personal anecdotal story about Resveratrol -

I haven't done Cardio in 2 months - Today it was nice out -
I went down to the beach and ran a 7 min mile

My personal best was 6:30 - 4 years ago - I haven't pushed myself past the 8 min mile mark since then - I haven't ran in over a year - I haven't done meaningful cardio in the gym for over 4 months

I ran a 7 min mile timed while sprinting the last third of the quarter mile!
I was winded but not tired - Its insane!
I usually need a few weeks of running miles to get me into the same spot I am now -

Mr brother and GF are also on Resveratrol and they also completed personal bests today -

...Maybe its the resveratrol...Maybe its placebo - I don't think i'd have a placebo affect months later though - but It definately could be some of my other supplements

[Ghostrider]

A personal anecdotal story about Resveratrol -

I haven't done Cardio in 2 months - Today it was nice out -
I went down to the beach and ran a 7 min mile

My personal best was 6:30 - 4 years ago - I haven't pushed myself past the 8 min mile mark since then - I haven't ran in over a year - I haven't done meaningful cardio in the gym for over 4 months

I ran a 7 min mile timed while sprinting the last third of the quarter mile!
I was winded but not tired - Its insane!
I usually need a few weeks of running miles to get me into the same spot I am now -

Mr brother and GF are also on Resveratrol and they also completed personal bests today -

...Maybe its the resveratrol...Maybe its placebo - I don't think i'd have a placebo affect months later though - but It definately could be some of my other supplements

Yeah, it could be either, but I also did pretty well in the gym today, especially at 3:30 in the afternoon on an empty stomach having had only 1 beverage earlier in the day. I don't eat, nor need to eat much. Just wish I still felt mentally as fit. I am certainly not any worse off, but not as good as last week. Damn tolerance.

[markymark]

I have one question,
can somebody around provide some cutting edge clues about the quercetin-plus resveratrol-yes-or-no? issue? The new LEF-product 100 mg resv. contains 120 mg quercetin for anhanced bioavailability purpose, according to LEF. The connection is competition with, or inhibiting the sulfatation of resv.
did anybody read the LEF-articles on resv. from the march 2007 issue, any coments
see also:
http://www.aapsj.org...art=aapsj080472
it say there that:
"Pharmacological Approaches to Enhance Sirtuin Activity
The activity identified for sirtuins in upregulating stress adaptation pathways and in reducing cell sensitivity to apoptosis has led to attempts to increase the catalytic rate of these enzymes in cells. Howitz et al73 identified a family of molecules from a library screen designed to detect compounds causing sirtuin activation. The screen identified a family of the well-known plant polyphenols, such as quercetin and the trans-stilbenoid resveratrol."

thanks in advane
mm

[maxwatt]

I have one question,
can somebody around provide some cutting edge clues about the quercetin-plus resveratrol-yes-or-no? issue? The new LEF-product 100 mg resv. contains 120 mg quercetin for  anhanced bioavailability purpose, according to LEF. The connection is competition with, or inhibiting the sulfatation of resv.
did anybody read the LEF-articles on resv. from the march 2007 issue, any coments
see also:
http://www.aapsj.org...art=aapsj080472
it say there that:
"Pharmacological Approaches to Enhance Sirtuin Activity
The activity identified for sirtuins in upregulating stress adaptation pathways and in reducing cell sensitivity to apoptosis has led to attempts to increase the catalytic rate of these enzymes in cells. Howitz et al73 identified a family of molecules from a library screen designed to detect compounds causing sirtuin activation. The screen identified a family of the well-known plant polyphenols, such as quercetin and the trans-stilbenoid resveratrol."

thanks in advance
mm

It's been addressed in the following thread, and elsewhere in the forums as welll:
http://www.imminst.o...6&t=13728&st=0

Basically:
quercetin activates SIRT1 in vitro, and according to the test that Biomol provide;
the major quercetin metabolite in humans, quercetin 3-O-glucuronide, slightly inhibits recombinant SIRT1 activity;
its action is opposed to that of resveratrol;
Quercetin DOES NOT prolong the life span of the worm, C. elegans, where resveratrol does.

In short, in terms of activating SIRT1, quercetin is at best useless, and at worst may be counterproductive. As far as I can tell, the whole Quercetin issue arises from Sardi's propaganda for his product. Bill Sardi is a gifted showman, on the lines of P.T. Barnum. He is an authority because he says he is an authority. He repeats outdated speculative assertions of scientists, and continues to cite discredited theories. But if you say something loud enough, after you've said it three times people believe it is true. After five times, it's an axiom.

People have stated that in their experience Longinevex works for them; but would it also work, and perhaps more strongly, without quercetin? I rather think so.

Mechanisms of Ageing and Development
Volume 127, Issue 7 , July 2006, Pages 618-627

SIRT1 stimulation by polyphenols is affected by their stability and metabolism

Vincent C.J. de Boer, Marcus C. de Goffau, Ilja C.W. Arts, Peter C.H. Hollman and Jaap Keijer, 

RIKILT – Institute of Food Safety, Wageningen University and Research Centre, Wageningen, The Netherlands

Received 7 December 2005;  revised 6 February 2006;  accepted 23 February 2006.  Available online 17 April 2006.

Abstract
Silent information regulator two ortholog 1 (SIRT1) is the human ortholog of the yeast sir2 protein; one of the most important regulators of lifespan extension by caloric restriction in several organisms. Dietary polyphenols, abundant in vegetables, fruits, cereals, wine and tea, were reported to stimulate the deacetylase activity of recombinant SIRT1 protein and could therefore be potential regulators of aging associated processes. However, inconsistent data between effects of polyphenols on the recombinant SIRT1 and on in vivo SIRT1, led us to investigate the influence of (1) stability of polyphenols under experimental conditions and (2) metabolism of polyphenols in human HT29 cells, on stimulation of SIRT1. With an improved SIRT1 deacetylation assay we found three new polyphenolic stimulators. Epigallocatechin galate (EGCg, 1.76-fold), epicatechin galate (ECg, 1.85-fold) and myricetin (3.19-fold) stimulated SIRT1 under stabilizing conditions, whereas without stabilization, these polyphenols strongly inhibited SIRT1, probably due to H2O2 formation. Using metabolically active HT29 cells we were able to show that quercetin (a stimulator of recombinant SIRT1) could not stimulate intracellular SIRT1. The major quercetin metabolite in humans, quercetin 3-O-glucuronide, slightly inhibited the recombinant SIRT1 activity which explains the lack of stimulatory action of quercetin in HT29 cells. This study shows that the stimulation of SIRT1 is strongly affected by polyphenol stability and metabolism, therefore extrapolation of in vitro SIRT1 stimulation results to physiological effects should be done with caution.

Keywords: SIRT1; Sir2; Polyphenols; Quercetin; Resveratrol; EGCg

[tintinet]

I think LEF's new resveratrol capsules also contain a form of quercetin. They also state there is evidence to suggest it may slow clearance of resveratrol and thus prolong it's presence and effects in the body, IIRC.

[shadowrun]

Pay half or a third of the price for a non-longinevex (or non quercitin) product and you can add your own quercitin -

If quercitin allows the Resveratrol to stay in the body longer you can use more doses of the cheaper product throughout the day and still come out ahead, as far as money is concerned

If all the quercitin does is allow it stay in my body longer, i'd rather just segment my doses out and pop another country life cap or nab another scoop of BAC powder and save the money

If the money isn't an issue, and you prefer the convenience, i'm sure Longinevex is about effective as everything else that's available

[tintinet]

The only reason to buy Longevinex, ISTM, is if ya buy the theory reveratrol is A. highly unstable and other capsules, tablets, and powders possess less activity, and 2. ya buy the "unified theory of aging" they are selling.

Otherwise, just buy Drs. Best or Country Life caps or bulk powder from BAC, Revgenics, etc.

[VP.]

I haven't done Cardio in 2 months - Today it was nice out -
I went down to the beach and ran a 7 min mile

I've had similar experiences with cycling. (and running) I am without a doubt the strongest I've ever been on a bike and this is the beginning of the season. I won't rule out placebo yet but I am growing more confident that it's the RSV. I've been riding with a power meter the last few months and I'm finding that my power is only going up moderately but my stamina has made much more noticeable increases. I'm taking about 5-6mg/kg of Natures Way, Longevinex, NSI and Orchid RSV. Other than a very noticeable increase in cycling and running ability, I have not noticed any other significant physical or mental changes since going form 0.5 mg/kg in October to my present dose in November.

[nosher1]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but I have read every post in the "500 club". Thanks for all of the great posts. Based on what I read here over the past few days, I bought a few bottles of the Country Life resveratrol. I'm 33 years old, 5' 6", 200 lbs (about 40 lbs overweight) and I have high cholesterol. I currently take Lipitor to keep it under control.

I took 2 capsules (200 mg RESV) yesterday and 2 more today. I definitely feel some stimulating effects that I think I can attribute to the RESV. I'm planning on ramping up to 5 mg / kg / day which for me is 4 or 5 capsules per day.

I haven't seen many posts about weight loss, which I am hoping RESV will help me with. I have seen posts from people who are not overweight say they haven't lost weight, but that is to be expected given the fact that the rats on the healthy diet weren't wasting away, right?

Have many overweight people out there achieved substantial, sustained weight lost by making no other changes than adding resveratrol? If so, how much weight loss and at what dosage of RESV did that occur? I'm wondering what I can expect in the 400 to 500 mg RESV range.

Thanks!
Norman

[shadowrun]

velopismo - I agree with you!

Slight increases in power but more noticeable in stamina!

I think it was the resveratrol - I've been on it for over 2 months
- The people I brought to the beach that day are your basic couch potatos - I have since recently taken them to my gym and they claim that their heart rates do not get as high + they have more stamina than in the past
(my gf tackled hill mode on the elliptical and cracked 2 miles in 15 mins - she has pooped out half way in the past)

We all take more than 200mg of Resveratrol

[nosher1]

Sorry about that. I did some additional research online and, you are completely right--the mice did not get thinner when given resveratrol, they were just healthier.

I am still looking forward to the increased energy and endurance giving me the ability to work out harder and more often. I guess that is where the weight loss will come in.

So, if I am undestanding everything correctly, 5 mg/kg/day is the same dose and Sinclair's mice, correct? Since the high calorie mice given resveratrol were basically 100% as healthy as the low calorie mice, what is the rationale for taking a higher dose than that?

Thanks,
Norman

[tintinet]

Likely the very high doses were used to A. assess toxicity and 2. to examine effects at much higher level, (as resveratrol is poorly absorbed, or so some studies claim), perhaps also to examine limits of effective dose range (i.e. test for U or J shaped dose response curve, etc.). Just my speculation.

[Ghostrider]

Norman, let us know how it works out for you. My experience at higher dosages 300-400 mg given 125 lbs body weight currently is that I lost most of my desire to eat until around 5-6 PM. It's not that I felt like avoiding food, I just felt no urge to eat. However, the energy boost effect seems to have faded for me. I am going to try cycling resv.

[tintinet]

The at least intitial appetite suppressive effects of resveratrol have been commented upon by several forum members, IIRC, including myself.

I also previously noted I'd had a similar experience with metformin, which has metabolic effects that, to some degree, overlap with those of resveratrol.

I also have experienced diminished overall perceived effects from higher dose resveratrol, including some return of appetite and decreased perception of enhanced energy, mood elevation.

Nonetheless, during the past week I've averaged about 4.5 hours sleep/night and encountered ongoing multiple major social, work, familial stressors, and I still feel pretty dang good, so maybe I'm just used to the elevated state resveratrol seems to confer.

[niner]

So, if I am undestanding everything correctly, 5 mg/kg/day is the same dose and Sinclair's mice, correct? Since the high calorie mice given resveratrol were basically 100% as healthy as the low calorie mice, what is the rationale for taking a higher dose than that?

If I recall correctly, the very high dose mice had better endurance, strength, muscle tone and the like, didn't they?

[tintinet]

NYT article from Sinclair interview:


"One person who is not following this prudent advice, however, is Dr. Sinclair, the chief author of the study. He has long been taking resveratrol, though at a dose of only five milligrams per kilogram. Mice given that amount in a second feeding trial have shown similar, but less pronounced, results as those on the 24-milligram-a-day dose, he said."

And a 400 mg/kg/day dose was used in the endurance study.

[health_nutty]

400 mg/kg per day? Jesus, that's like 27 grams per day for a 150 lb human.

Many people divide by 6 to account for the difference in rodent and human metabolism so we are only talking 5g per day

[Ghostrider]

I've always favored moderation (although this policy, at time, includes moderation), so
I get resveratrol from a variety of sources. 

Recently, I was using Orchid synthetic highly pure (>99% trans-resv) along with Country Life, NSI, Biotest, and BAC sources, depending upon what was handy in the cupboard.

More recently I've been using 98% Purity  Polygonum cuspidatum extract, NOW Natural Resveratrol, and Country Life Resveratrol Plus, with some rotation of the aforementioned components.

Almost always taken with meals, in divided doses to reach a daily total of approx. 1 gram/day (Yeah, I know: not very moderate for most folks!).

I take RSV on an empty stomach an hour or so before eating. Is it better to take with meal instead?

[tintinet]

AFAIK, no one really knows what the "best" way to take resveratrol; however, resveratrol is much more lipid soluble than water soluble, and, in Sinclair's rodent studies, the diet was 60% with resveratrol mixed into the animal's chow. Thus, to best conform to the study, one probably ought take their daily resveratrol in divided doses with lipid containing food. Another factor to consider: Red wine effect- so alcohol may also enhance its absorption and/or alter hepatic metabolism of it to enhance its effects in the body. But, AFAIK, most of the above is predominantly speculation.

[rwoodin]

Hey All,
I read quite a few of the posts in the '500 club'. Lot's of good info so thanks to all. I just started on Doctors Best 100mg and some Natures Way 37.5 mg. I took 3 NW's and 1 DB's earlier today and yeah, there seems to be a subtle mood elevation kind of well being thing going on. Also a little more vivid mental imagery when closing my eye's to take a nap earlier. Getting the cobwebs and dust blown out of the 47 year old synapses, I would hope. I choose the Doctors Best from Iherb because it was the only one (that I saw at the time) stating it contained 100mg Trans-Resveratrol. I also have some Bioforte 250mg that should arrive soon after...quite a while. I already take prozac 20mg and wellbutrin 300mg once a day for depression. They work OK. I'm also on quinapril 20mg and lipitor 20mg for high blood pressure and high cholesterol respectively. I actually just had some bloodwork done this past week before starting the TRES stuff today. The quinapril controls my bp pretty well - usually runs somewhere around 110-130/70-80. My cholesterol came back with total level of around 175 - LDL was around 110 (I think that's what they said)and HDL about 39. The HDL has always been low (=not good). The lipitor dropped the total levels from 220-230 range to what it is now. The nurse told me the results over the phone so they should have the exact numbers. I intend to stay with around 500 mg pr/day of TRES. Maybe the HDL will get better - we'll see in 6 months or so. I excersize with weights a couple times a week and right now am about 190lb/5'10". I was always a skinny 150lb all my life until starting weights regularly - going on 10 years ago. After sticking with weights and eating more for a year or two, until this last year, I ran about 180-185lb and would like to get back down to that. the extra 10-15lbs is definatley concentrated around the middle! No doubt as I also love sweets (and eat them quite regularly - cookies, cake, soda, cupcakes, yodels, little debbie's, you name it as long as it's loaded with sugar) and smoking, which I do about a pack a day of. Only thing I dont do is drink - for last 9 years. It was always something I had trouble with, regardless of countless iterations of repeating the same excersize of consumption while expecting the results to be somehow different. They never were. So, maybe I qualify as a good subject to see if this stuff works while maintaining other unhealthy habits, in the spirit of the French model that helped inspire all the hub-bub in the first place. You know I read that 122 year old lady from France didn't quit smoking until 117 years of age. Now how's that for class-A rationalization!! Anyhow, to stay on topic after the introductory ramble, I'm interested in other peoples experiences with somewhat high dosages of TRES and will be happy to share any of my own.
Thanks,
Ralph (rwoodin)