1708 replies to this topic

[tintinet]

T-resv, so far, for me, has been a positive experience, albeit emodin induced GI issues with some supplements at higher doses.

Ya really oughta cut back on the junk food and tobacco and start drinking, though, IMO.

[valjean]

Last week I was swimming 20 Lanes (1 Km) without any feeling of exhaustion after
it. 3 month ago I had to quit after 600 m. I didn't do any exercise or sport in
between. I'm on ~7.7 mg/kg/day and have start taking it since 3 month.

[tintinet]

Although I've notice increased resilience in the form of lack of fatigue despite way too little sleep (sub 5 hours/night forever, ISTM), 12 hour/day 7 day work weeks, and social and familial pressures, responsibilities, events, I don't perceive any significant difference in my weight routine performance. Aerobic exercise does seem relatively effortless, though. (~10 mg/kg/day). FWIW, I've been working out, daily, alternating aerobics/yoga and weights/martial arts, for decades.

[rwoodin]

Thanks for the kind thoughts, Tintinet. I gotta do without the alcohol though. I'm allergic to it - makes me break out in handcuffs...I only went back to drinking and other perilous substance ingestion for one year out of the last...20. It was enough to convince me that things were never going to change with that deal.
So, I was thinking....I definately noticed a mild euphoria and increased sense of brain chemical percolating activity with this TRES. Then I remembered that when I first started on the wellbutrin and later the prozac I experienced the same effect to a greater degree. And the whole point with anti-depressants is they are not supposed to make you feel 'high' or euphoric. They are supposed to remove depression. Ideally, you feel nothing except, not depressed, when you take them as needed. The initial 'rush' or 'buzz' is what is called a 'side effect' of whatever the particular medication or substance is. It wears off as the body gets accustomed to the new brain chemical balance and after that you are left with intended result of the med - no depression. It's kinda interesting that a lot of people wrote that they felt great initially and then that faded and they wanted more of that. That is how highly addictive drugs work. They make you fell REALLY GREAT and then let you way down and then if you take more and more you get the REALLY FANTASTICALLY UNBELIEVABLE feeling back for a while until the system becomes so accustomed to the chemical that the body and mind gets sick (withdrawel) when the substance is removed. So...my point in all this is, I'll take the eubilent feeling that comes with TRES for a while. But that was not why I started taking it. I want to see, and hope I do see, that it switches on the SIRT1 gene and makes me live longer without all the drudgery and monotonous routine of calorie restriction. IMO, just because 'I feel Better' doesnt equal 'It must be working'. Cocaine and heroin and all that crack, crank stuff will give you a real blast if that's what your looking for. Most people that make it to forums like this know better than that. They get their dopamine and endorphine rushes from positive activities such as vigorous excersize. If anything, I'd like to see better methods to quantify whether TRES is producing the intended result for people. I'll keeping reading along the threads looking for that type of info.

[rwoodin]

And one more thing....this feeling I have today from the TRES, which is a definate 'stimulation' of mood is no placebo effect. It is an effect from resveratrol. Absolutely.

[tintinet]

I'm sure you're right about the addiction potential, rwoodin. It's tough to write that ebullient euphoric mood boost off as a temporary side effect and let it go, though!

I do recall one of the first days I was taking high dose t-res: cruising through a supermarket, feeling invincible and superior until I recognized the idiocy of such thinking.....

[Ghostrider]

I'm sure you're right about the addiction potential, rwoodin.  It's tough to write that ebullient euphoric mood boost off as a temporary side effect and let it go, though!

I do recall one of the first days I was taking high dose t-res: cruising through a supermarket, feeling invincible and superior until I recognized the idiocy of such thinking.....

It would be useful if someone here could setup a double-blind placebo test and report on their findings. To rule out possible placebo effects.

[rwoodin]

I dont think that TRES has real bad addiction potential. It feels just like prozac or any of the SSRI's when they first 'kick in'. The addictive type of drugs like the opiates, barbituates, amphetamines, alcohol, etc make you feel...real high and in pleasure right away and the more you take, the more buzzed you get - right away. I cant picture a bunch of junkies hanging in the alley talking about scoring some good TRES so they can party serious. You know? It's not that kind of thing. Addicts will do anything to anybody to get more of the drug they are addicted to, regardless of the consequences - that's why it's such a sickness. Drunks will come up with any excuse to go sit a while at the corner tap...But taking it, the TRES that is, I dont know if it's enhanced by the antidepressant's I'm already on but it produces a no doubt about it, antidepressant feeling. At least that is what it's doing to me. It's A mood elevating substance. Like strong coffe, which I drink alot of, but bigger and not as 'speedy'. I'm suprised that aspect of it was not touted more by the suppliers and picked up on more by the general public. Or for that matter, picked up on by the pharmecuetical industry. It does make sense from some of the posts I read on this thread that reprinted an SSRI study were they found it did inhibit re-uptake of seratonin or norepiniphrine or some couple of the feel good brain chemicals. Definately has that laxative thing to. Maybe we mix some beano and kaopecktate with it. Gimme a BTK smoothie, and make it snappy!

[tintinet]

The laxative effect to which you and others (including myself) have referred is attributed to emodin, a substance with well established laxative effects, rather than resveratrol itself. Emodin accompanies resveratrol in extracts derived from Japanese Knotwood/PC, in varying amounts, depending upon extraction and purity of the resveratrol extract. Highly pure resveratrol extracts from JK/PC, extracts from other sources not containing JC/PC, as well as synthetic resveratrol, one should not expect any such symptoms, AFAIK.

[sablystone]

Blood Pressure history with TRes.

Avg of three measurements before Tres: 135/92

started 100mg/day Tres Longevinex early Dec 2006.

Avg of three measurements mid Jan 2007: 130/87

started 300mg daily Tres Longevinex (100mg, 3x day, preferrably on empty stomach) mid Feb 2007.

Avg of three measurements today: 117/77

I am a believer!!

[health_nutty]

Interesting data point. Thanks for sharing. Keep the updates coming.

Blood Pressure history with TRes.

Avg of three measurements before Tres:  135/92

started 100mg/day Tres Longevinex early Dec 2006.

Avg of three measurements mid Jan 2007:  130/87

started 300mg daily Tres Longevinex (100mg, 3x day, preferrably on empty stomach) mid Feb 2007.

Avg of three measurements today:  117/77

I am a believer!!

[mitkat]

I'm curious, what is the lowest dosage anyone has taken so far that has created any kind of noticable, albiet subjective effect? I'm still deciding on what brand to buy, btw!

[tintinet]

WRT low dose effects: Several years ago, a member of the CR Society related to me in conversation their experience with Longevinex in collaboration, IIRC, with David Sinclair and a team of physicians studying the effects of resveratrol.

IIRC, this individual stated they took 1 Longevinex capsule in the AM without food with resultant measured decrease in BP, pulse rate, basal body temperature, fasting glucose, and insulin levels. Don't recall any mention of specific subjective effects, though.

I had just recently also begun taking Longevinex capsules at this time. I don't recall noticing any subjective effects at the dose of 1 Longevinex capsule myself. I only began noticing perceptible effects at a fairly high dose level (~ 2.5 mg/kg/day).

[mitkat]

WRT low dose effects: Several years ago, a member of the CR Society related to me in conversation their experience with Longevinex in collaboration, IIRC, with David Sinclair  and a team of physicians studying the effects of resveratrol. 

IIRC, this individual stated they took 1 Longevinex capsule in the AM without food with resultant measured decrease in BP, pulse rate, basal body temperature, fasting glucose, and insulin levels.  Don't recall any mention of specific subjective effects, though.

I had just recently also begun taking Longevinex capsules at this time.  I don't recall noticing any subjective effects at the dose of 1 Longevinex capsule myself.  I only began noticing perceptible effects at a fairly high dose level (~ 2.5 mg/kg/day).

Thanks, good to know I'm interested because of the range and frequeny of these subjective effects. There is no doubt as to the in vivo efficacy, but all of these..positive feelings? Increased energy? This is good news.

[DukeNukem]

Been taking ~500mg daily for two months (pure synthetic RSV, no emodin). No noticeable effect. Prior to that, was taking about 90mg/day for two years.

[rwoodin]

I took Longevinex for a few months. This was their earlier product, not the 100mg capsules they offer now. I think they were putting 40mg in then? Anyhow, I remember feeling a tiny little, 'whats that' type of feeling at the time, that quickly passed. But it was not anything like I experienced over the last two days. I was taking the same meds then as well. I started taking (approximately) 400mg resveratrol, split in two doses spaced about 10 hours apart. What I'm taking is Doctors Best 100mg capsules and Natures Way 37.5mg capsules. I'll take a couple of the Natures Way and 1 or 2 of the Doc's Best, in one serving. I actually slept like a rock and felt a little groggy today upon awakening. I was reading a post over on the Methusela Foundations forum that really bashes resveratrol in general.

http://www.methusela...hread.php?t=123

I guess as much as I would like to here positive results from studies on life extension being attributed to resveratrol (in higher life forms - like us), the jury is still a long ways out on the subject. I hope that none of the folks taking higher doses of TRES, me included, are doing anything harmful to themselves.

[Ghostrider]

I hope that none of the folks taking higher doses of TRES, me included, are doing anything harmful to themselves.

Yeah, that is why I have stayed at relatively low dosages of 100 or 200 mg so far. I do not think I will have to wait long though until more data on RESV is avail.

[rwoodin]

Right. Now today I took two 37.5mg Natures Way and one 100mg Doc's Best and feel kind of a little worn out, with some of the mood elevation I experienced yesterday but not as much, which is OK. Being that I take an SSRI daily, possibly the resveratrol potentiated that (prozac) already in my system. I think I'll keep the dosages around 300mg for now. I'm also taking this stuff called 'Purple Power' which is dried muscadine grape skins. From what I've read, muscadines have a lot of good stuff in them, including resveratrol. PS. I have no vested interest in Purple Power, I'm a customer who purchased from them twice.

http://paulkvineyards.com/?q=node/7

[tintinet]

Although perhaps not as noticeably continuously hypomanic as when I first increased my resveratrol dose, I still spend the major portion of my day feeling, physically. mentally, and emotionally, fairly close to the top of my "scale."

Perhaps t-resv won't lengthen my life by a large margin, but if it is responsible for the way I have felt lately, and it continues to have this effect without harming my health, it's still worth the price, IMO.

[health_nutty]

Although perhaps not as noticeably continuously hypomanic as when I first increased my resveratrol dose, I still spend the major portion of my day feeling, physically. mentally, and emotionally, fairly close to the top of my "scale."

Perhaps t-resv won't lengthen my life by a large margin, but if it is responsible for the way I have felt lately, and it continues to have this effect without harming my health, it's still worth the price, IMO.

ditto.

[fearfrost]

Although perhaps not as noticeably continuously hypomanic as when I first increased my resveratrol dose, I still spend the major portion of my day feeling, physically. mentally, and emotionally, fairly close to the top of my "scale."

Perhaps t-resv won't lengthen my life by a large margin, but if it is responsible for the way I have felt lately, and it continues to have this effect without harming my health, it's still worth the price, IMO.

ditto.

ditto

[valjean]

Although perhaps not as noticeably continuously hypomanic as when I first increased my resveratrol dose, I still spend the major portion of my day feeling, physically. mentally, and emotionally, fairly close to the top of my "scale." ...

Would be interesting to distinguish if the TRES acts more like a drug in such a way that it affects brain
chemistry directly in a way where the overall good feeling results from no good reason (other than taking
it) or if TRES improves homeostasis/cell function and the good overall feeling is a result of the
'everything is fine" feedback the brain receives from a better functioning body ?

[Mind]

valjean: Would be interesting to distinguish if the TRES acts more like a drug in such a way that it affects brain
chemistry directly in a way where the overall good feeling results from no good reason (other than taking
it) or if TRES improves homeostasis/cell function and the good overall feeling is a result of the
'everything is fine" feedback the brain receives from a better functioning body ?

Trends Neurosci. 2006 Sep 23;

    Neurohormetic phytochemicals: low-dose toxins that induce adaptive neuronal stress responses.

        * Mattson MP,
        * Cheng A.

    Laboratory of Neurosciences, National Institute on Aging Intramural Research Program, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

    Diets rich in vegetables and fruits are associated with reduced risk of several major diseases, including neurodegenerative disorders. Although some beneficial phytochemicals might function solely as antioxidants, it is becoming clear that many of the beneficial chemicals in vegetables and fruits evolved as toxins (to dissuade insects and other predators) that, at subtoxic doses, activate adaptive cellular stress-response pathways in a variety of cells including neurons. Examples of such 'preconditioning' or 'neurohormesis' pathways include those involving cell-survival signaling kinases, the transcription factors NRF2 and CREB, and histone deacetylases of the sirtuin family. In these ways, neurohormetic phytochemicals such as resveratrol, sulforaphanes and curcumin might protect neurons against injury and disease by stimulating the production of antioxidant enzymes, neurotrophic factors, protein chaperones and other proteins that help cells to withstand stress. Thus, as we discuss in this review, highly conserved longevity and survival pathways in neurons are the targets of many phytochemicals.

    PMID: 17000014 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]


For those of you who cannot get access to the full paper (join up) here are the main phytonutrients mentioned:

1. Resveratrol
2. Sulforaphane
3. Curcumin
4. Catechins
5. Allicin
6. Hypercin

If these popular phytonutrients evolved as toxins then I don't know if I want to mega-mega-dose them just yet. Might do more harm than good. I'll personally wait for a bit more evidence.

[Ghostrider]

Has anyone who has used resv for a while actually begun to feel worn out on it? Does it cause extra mental or physical stress?

[tintinet]

Not that I've noticed: just keep on truckin', so far...

Have to wonder, though, if there might be a long term price to be paid for having more energy, feeling less tired, feeling more alert, sleeping more soundly, being in a generally terrific mood and optimistic, despite ongoing multiple stressors (too much GD work, family activities and responsibilities, minimal sleep, etc.).

But so far (on higher dose resveratrol for almost 3 months at this point), no sign of it.

Got a bit of additional sleep yesterday and felt really awesome, BTW.

[valjean]

When starting to take more resveratrol 80 -> 600mg for ~2 weeks I fell
asleep early in front of the TV but this has passed away. But regardless
how early I wake up I have the feeling that I could start the day not having
the symptom of being fatigue. Having some extra sleep (on weekends) I always
feel extra fine. My mood operates above the zero line, having no mental
down since 3 month of taking resveratrol.

[Mind]

Dukenukem: Been taking ~500mg daily for two months (pure synthetic RSV, no emodin). No noticeable effect. Prior to that, was taking about 90mg/day for two years.

From the abstract above: In these ways, neurohormetic phytochemicals such as resveratrol, sulforaphanes and curcumin might protect neurons against injury and disease by stimulating the production of antioxidant enzymes, neurotrophic factors, protein chaperones and other proteins that help cells to withstand stress.

For people who are on a Kurzweilian list of supps (over a hundred), I wonder if there may be little if any positive contribution to healthy lifespan from resveratrol. If resveratrol acts upon the same cell protection pathways as many other phytonutrients then that particular mechanism of extending healthy lifespan may already be “tapped-out” and adding resveratrol may just be a waste of money or at worst – harmful. Dukenukem is already in peak physical condition so I am not surprised that resveratrol did nothing for him.

[spybreak]

Hopefully this has not already been posted, if it has, apologies. Either way I wanted to address the concerns of coupling quercetin with resveratrol. Quercetin may have been indicated as slightly down-regulating SIRT1 expression in one study, however many other studies have shown it to be reasonably effective alongisde resveratrol in activating SIRT1. Furthermore, people might want to consider having half a glass of wine along with their resveratrol doses, as ethanol has been indicated in further attenuating these polyphenols - plus it couldn't hurt to consume other RWPE (red-wine polyphenol extracts) in the wine which almost certainly have synergistic and possibly additive effects.

One study in particular demonstrates that quercetin does in fact have positive effects - although not necessarily in activating SIRT1
"Synergy between ethanol and grape polyphenols, quercetin, and resveratrol, in the inhibition of the inducible nitric oxide synthase pathway" (Marion Man-Ying Chan et al., 2000)

Note: Heavily cropped, if you guys want the full text I'll host it up somewhere

Abstract:
In atherosclerosis and tumor initiation, inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) has been implicated in the damage of vascular walls and DNA, respectively. Moderate consumption of red wine has been ascribed as a preventive for coronary heart disease; however, there has been much debate over whether the beneficial effect is from grape polyphenolic components or ethanol. We studied the interaction of grape compounds on nitric oxide (NO) production by macrophages, mediators of blood vessel damage in atherosclerosis. For the murine macrophage cell line RAW 264.7, stimulation with lipopolysaccharide and interferon-ã led to expression of the iNOS gene and production of NO. The polyphenols quercetin and resveratrol at a micromolar range suppressed iNOS gene expression and NO production, as determined by reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction and nitrite assay. The polyphenols were also found to be scavengers of NO in an acellular system using sodium nitroprusside under physiological conditions. Ethanol, at a moderate level, did not produce any appreciable level of reduction of iNOS or NO activity. However, its presence at 0.1 to 0.75% enhanced the effect of grape polyphenols concentration-dependently. Thus, the interaction between these components plays a significant role in the health effects of red wine, especially with respect to their effect on the NO pathway.

Results:
Synergy between ethanol and quercetin or resveratrol in inhibiting NO production of stimulated macrophages
In the presence of 1% ethanol, quercetin, from 3 to 100 microM, reduced NO production in a concentration-dependent manner by 21.8 to 99% (Fig. 1). The 50 value was 7.6 microM. To examine the synergism between ethanol and quercetin, ethanol was decreased further, titrating from 0.75 to 0.1%. A concentration of 30 vM was at the log phase of the quercetin inhibition curve when 0.1% ethanol was added, and thus was selected to study whether ethanol increases the efficacy of polyphenol (data not shown). When ethanol was at 0.1% and quercetin at 30 microM, nitrite production was reduced to 58% of the control (cells stimulated with LPS and IFN-gamma; only) (Fig. 2). When the ethanol content was increased to 0.25, 0.50, and 0.75% in the culture, in a concentration-dependent manner, the degree of nitrite production was reduced further to 38, 30.7, and 20.7%, respectively (Fig. 2).

Resveratrol, similar to quercetin, also inhibited nitrite production by macrophages, and ethanol potentiated this action in a concentration-dependent manner. In the presence of 1% ethanol, resveratrol (3–100 microM) reduced NO production by 15.6 to 94.7% (Fig. 3). It had an 50 value of 23.4 microM. A higher concentration of resveratrol was needed to achieve the same level of inhibition as quercetin. For examining the synergism between ethanol and resveratrol, similar to the quercetin experiment, ethanol concentration was decreased, from 0.75 to 0.1%. When 0.1% ethanol was added, a concentration of 60 microM was at the log phase of the resveratrol inhibition curve, and thus this concentration was selected for determining the effect of ethanol. Whereas 60 microM reduced nitrite production to 74% of the control (LPS- and IFN-gamma;-stimulated cells), when ethanol were increased to 0.25, 0.50, and 0.75%, nitrite production was reduced further to 55, 45, and 31%, respectively (Fig. 4).

[trance]

Does anyone know of a particular brand & type of wine that qualifies as RSV rich comparatively, relatively cheap, and tastes good? The later being the most important to me. (I'm no wine connoisseur obviously.)

Thanks!
Trance

[malbecman]

One other possible effect I was noticing this weekend:

We are having a warm and early spring out here on the left coast. All the trees, flowers, etc are in bloom withs tons of pollen blowing around. Normally, I suffer some from allergies (itchy eyes, runny nose, etc), typically histamine release stuff and I usually have to pop a loratidine once in awhile. So far, no noticeable allergy troubles and no need to take loratidine. Anecdotal? Placebo?
Anyone else???


Me: 5mg/kg BAC powder since Jan 06.......


-Malbec