1708 replies to this topic

[geo12the]

What cranberry are you using, and how much, with what resveratrol, and what quantity? Thanks.

Every morning I take:

2 Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega (EPA and DHA)
1 baby aspirin
2 RevGenetics (Anthony’s product) R500 (I gram res)
1 Cranassure (250 mg of cranberry fruit extract)

Every other day I also take a cinnamon product (CinnaBetic) and Primrose oil pills for GLA. I take a multivitamin once a week.

I also try and eat berries with my cereal in the morning, red wine with dinner, tend to eat a lot of fish, salads and cheese (today I had a hamburger for the first time in probably 3 years) and I’m addicted to dark chocolate.

As I mentioned before, after adding Cranberry to the regimen I noticed effects that I had not previously observed. It’s not the cranberry alone because before I started taking res I occasionally would take cranberry and never noticed any effects. For cranberry, before Cranassure I was taking something called Cranmax and found the same effect when taken together with Resveratrol.

[tintinet]

Certainly worth a trial. I'll get some Cranassure, add it to my supplements, along with approximately 3 grams t-resveratrol/day I've been taking, and follow up.

[kenj]

>>> I also try and eat berries with my cereal in the morning, red wine with dinner, tend to eat a lot of fish, salads and cheese (today I had a hamburger for the first time in probably 3 years) and I’m addicted to dark chocolate. <<<

That's funny, I need at least 10-20G (low-fat) cheese everyday now, no questions asked.

[stephen_b]

Just a thought: Cranassure contains

• 500 mg of cranberry fruit extract
• 40 mg of Vitamin C (67% of Daily Value)
• 2766 IU of Vitamin A, 100% as Beta Carotene (55% of Daily Value)
• 33 mcg of Selenium (47% of Daily Value)

If there is a synergy with resveratrol, it could be one of the other ingredients too. Selenium anyone?

Stephen

[foodoo]

Just a thought: Cranassure contains

• 500 mg of cranberry fruit extract
• 40 mg of Vitamin C (67% of Daily Value)
• 2766 IU of Vitamin A, 100% as Beta Carotene (55% of Daily Value)
• 33 mcg of Selenium (47% of Daily Value)

If there is a synergy with resveratrol, it could be one of the other ingredients too. Selenium anyone?

Stephen

not to speak for geo12the, but I do not think the other product he listed contains any of those compunds (has cranberry extract of course though).

via this link it markets some additional additives though:
http://www.cranmax.com/bioshield.shtml
"Cran-Max® uses the patented Bio-Shield® system, the all natural protector which delivers the bioactivates through the stomach acids without deterioration. Each Max product uses the whole fruit- the fruit solids, seeds, skins and concentrated juices, to maintain the full synergistic, concentrated spectrum of this herb.
The condensed tannins infused into the Bio-Shield® carrier helps carry the product to the lower intestines over a 12-16 hour period where your enzymes release, on a sustained natural basis, the condensed tannins into the blood stream. The sites of actions are continually bombarded with small quantities of berry bioactivates. In the case of Cran-max®, this means any E. coli is physiologically changed so that attachment is not possible. They just wash away."

also:
"made from 100% cranberry fruit solids. It is made through a proprietary process that intensifies the natural benefits of the whole cranberry, without the use of any solvents, preservatives, sugars, water, flavorings or colour.
Cran-Max® Cranberry Supplement incorporates a patented Bio-Shield® Technology that protects the cranberry from destruction by gastric acid, delivering the nutrients to the lower gastrointestinal tract where they can be absorbed through a time-released mechanism."

I couldn't find an actual listing of the ingredients though...perhaps if someone has a bottle they can confirm.

The ingredients of cranassure:
Soybean Oil, Cranberry fruit extract, Gelatin (non-bovine), Glycerin, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Soy Lecithin, Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Water, Artificial Colors (Carmine, Titanium Dioxide, Caramel), Beta Carotene, Selenium Dioxide.

[tintinet]

Just a thought: Cranassure contains

• 500 mg of cranberry fruit extract
• 40 mg of Vitamin C (67% of Daily Value)
• 2766 IU of Vitamin A, 100% as Beta Carotene (55% of Daily Value)
• 33 mcg of Selenium (47% of Daily Value)

If there is a synergy with resveratrol, it could be one of the other ingredients too. Selenium anyone?

Stephen

Doubt selenium is synergistic ingredient. Amount in Cranassure is relatively low, and selenium is found in most multivitamins,
Brazil nuts, etc. I take AOR Ortho•Selenium/Se-methylselenocysteine daily.

[health_nutty]

Wow, I just saw the post count for this thread is over a thousand.

[maxwatt]

I would like to get back to the resveratrol-cranberry synergy topic. Has anyone except for me and Craig tried this? I am convinced that since I started taking both I have noticed some strong effects that I haven’t noticed when taking either of them alone. Here are the effects I’ve noticed: 1) strong stimulant effect all day and increased mental clarity. 2) decreased appetite: After breakfast at 7:00 AM, I am ravenous by 10:00 or 10:30. Since taking the res/cran combo, my hunger has been pushed ahead by about 2 hours or more so I start feeling hungry around 12:00 or 12:30. 3) Increased endurance on the treadmill at the gym, particularly on the days I go after work during the week.

I have noticed a similar effect when doubling resveratrol dosage to 4 gm, or when taking with grapefruit juice, though perhaps somewhat milder than what geo12the has described. It is thought by some researchers that very large doses of resveratrol overwhelm the systems in the intestines that normally dispose of resveratrol, and thus more gets into the blood. Grapefruit contains polyphenols that inhibit sulfonation of resveratrol, and thus also increase bioavailability.

There is little in the literature about cranberry polyphenols, but note hat several different species can be called cranberry, and these may differ in what polyphenols they do contain. But I would hypothesize the cranberry effect is due to increased bioavailability, perhaps due to inhibition of glucoronidation and/or sulfonation of resveratrol in the intestine and in the liver.

[craigb527]

So Max, what would be your best advice for increasing bioavailability of resveratrol. Resveratrol with ? ? ? [glasses]

[maxwatt]

So Max, what would be your best advice for increasing bioavailability of resveratrol.  Resveratrol with  ?  ?  ? [glasses]

Use a surfactant, I prefer lecithin. Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

To inhibit glucononidation, black pepper or an extract thereof. To inhibit sulfonation, possibly grapefruit juice or an extract -- this is surmise based on published sulfonation figures for various polyphenols, but hasn't been directly tested in any lab. I will be experimenting with cranberry to see if I note any effects.

[craigb527]

So Max, what would be your best advice for increasing bioavailability of resveratrol.  Resveratrol with  ?  ?  ? [glasses]

Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

[:o] Not familiar with the use of one or exactly where to get one? I understand the concept.

[maxwatt]

So Max, what would be your best advice for increasing bioavailability of resveratrol.  Resveratrol with  ?  ?  ? [glasses]

Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

[:o] Not familiar with the use of one or exactly where to get one? I understand the concept.

Go through the thread "maximizing resveratrol effectiveness"

No, definitely not that one.  That is a high powered sonicator probe.  Does a great job, no?

The one I used is much more like this one, only smaller:

http://www.hitechtra...utonumber=65088

You fill the top with 2-3" of water and place the items you want sonicated (jewelry, dentures, resveratrol/lecithin in a mug, etc) in the water bath and turn it on.  It makes a high pitched noise which can be irritating but you can cover it with a big box or somesuch and it only takes 1-2 minutes......

This one might be a little cheaper: http://www.wholesale...products_id=101

[craigb527]

OK. Thanks.

[health_nutty]

I took some cranberry extract with my resveratrol this morning. I don't feel any different.

[craigb527]

Interesting report on statements made by Sinclair and company. [lol]

http://www.methusela...hread.php?t=123

Edited by craigb527, 13 October 2007 - 12:39 AM.

[tintinet]

Ya. Michael Rae the eternal skeptic. If he didn't originate the idea, it must be incorrect! Just kidding. He does posit serious critique of the merit of resveratrol supplementation. All is vanity!

[foodoo]

I took some cranberry extract with my resveratrol this morning.  I don't feel any different.

ditto, although I am now prepared if I ever have a UTI (although I never have) - I tried it with two doses now, and did not notice an observable effect - I could only find CranAssure (no CranMax) at my local grocer, suppose I will give it a few more attempts - only $10, but my wife likely now wonders if I secretly have a UTI. I bought a bottle of Knudsen's Cranberry juice too ($7), and will give this a go.

I take no other 'supplements', not even a multi. Although I do eat fairly 'healthy' (not shy of good pizza) and consume green tea, cocoa, coffee, 1-2 pinots/evening, etc. - I'm not militant about diet, I tried CR several years earlier though. My early experiences with resveratrol seemed similar to CR (i.e great energy, etc.), but it may have been a placebo effect. I thought I noticed a synergy with green tea some time ago, but it may have just been the green tea alone :-) I've taken res for 4+ years now - 99% 4g the last few months, and 1.5g of 50% for 1.5 yrs previous. The greatest 'subjective effects' were while taking the Coutrylife product (energy, etc.) -I tried various other suppliers too, e.g. longevenix, but mostly went with the cheapest product at a given point in time - there are very little subjective effects since moving to the 99% grade. The only difference in the Countrylife is the pine bark extract, but perhaps there are other things in that mystery 50% of knotweed extract. If I had to guess at one effect, and thus the reason I continue to supplement, it is that my immune response seems to generally be dampened, regardless of product. Aged tissue is full of fibrosis, so my leap of faith is that this might be helping to slow the accumulation.

One other note, I experienced several of the symptoms noted by (I believe tintinet, no time to look) while on the 50% grade (e.g. occasional sensory peripheral neuropathy). Since taking the 99% my appetite seemed to increase some (but maybe it was just summer) - I put on 10-15 lbs over the last couple of months -currently 180lb 5'11".

Also, I just purchased this sonicator: http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B000K7PT72/

and will compare the suspension with the stick blender method. This product is listed at the same price as the Haier model listed earlier in this thread (the Haier is also available at Amazon for $15 cheaper than the url pointing to the other vendor), but has twice the transducer size and a larger tank. My assumption was that the larger transducer will be more effective at mixing - several on Amazon complained about the power of the small 35W Haier (dirty jewelry being their metric), although it may be just fine for the purposes of mixing res and lecithin.

malbecman: what is the wattage of your sonicator?

The model listed above is 60W, and the Haier is 35W. Actually all of the Haier models are 35W - the fancier models simply have a slightly larger tank and 'interface features', such as longer timer settings.

for reference, Amazon's Haier: http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B0000BVGNJ/
foo

Edited by foodoo, 13 October 2007 - 07:30 AM.

[kenj]

>>> If I had to guess at one effect, and thus the reason I continue to supplement, it is that my immune response seems to generally be dampened, regardless of product. Aged tissue is full of fibrosis, so my leap of faith is that this might be helping to slow the accumulation. <<<

Can you elaborate on this, thanks.

[foodoo]

>>> If I had to guess at one effect, and thus the reason I continue to supplement, it is that my immune response seems to generally be dampened, regardless of product. Aged tissue is full of fibrosis, so my leap of faith is that this might be helping to slow the accumulation. <<<

Can you elaborate on this, thanks.

Yes, I should have qualified that statement - and the fibrosis comment was likely confusing.

This is anecdotal and a stretch in terms of a relevant observation, so please take it as nothing more. I have a branchial cleft cyst, that will occasionally grow in size if I am sick, or have been eating poorly and not exercising for an extended period of time (i.e. high fat and sugar diet), stressed, etc.. I'm not sure if it's analogous to maxwatt's big toe, but this is my metric. My brother (two years younger than I) had to have his excised it was so inflamed (golf ball size). Mine seems to be so small now that it is unnoticable. Also, I generally had transient back pain (once/month flare up) in the muscles of my upper back after age 23 (probably from years of poor posture, and long hours in front of a computer -I'm 30 now), in the last 2 years of taking higher dose res I cannot remember an incident. The last few months I've been perticularly unhealthy, in part because I was curious if my cyst or back pain would recur, and my appetite was quite strong anyway - I suppose I could have done some exercise though. Thus far I have had no problems, despite no exercise and a fat and sugar filled diet. I plan to drop the 10lbs. though, because I like being at a lower weight - adding some exercise to my routine generally does the trick.

btw, branchial cleft cysts are congenital epithelial cysts, which arise on the lateral part of the neck from a failure of obliteration of the second branchial cleft in embryonic development - they are usually unnoticable, and only a nuisance if they become inflamed

foo

[craigb527]

Once Sirt 1 is activated, would discontinuing use of Resveratrol deactivate it in humans? I realize there isn't much info on this, but what about in animal trials?

Edited by craigb527, 14 October 2007 - 02:03 PM.

[geo12the]

I took some cranberry extract with my resveratrol this morning.  I don't feel any different.

ditto, although I am now prepared if I ever have a UTI (although I never have) - I tried it with two doses now, and did not notice an observable effect

For what it’s worth my significant other is on the same supplement regime as I, and has not noticed an effect since we added the Cranberry. So who knows? Maybe I am just more sensitive to the effects or maybe it is a bit of the placebo effect thing going on.

[niner]

Once Sirt 1 is activated, would discontinuing use of Resveratrol deactivate it in humans? I realize there isn't much info on this, but what about in animal trials?

If SirT1 is activated in vivo by resveratrol binding, it should only remain active while the resveratrol is bound. Since resveratrol is not a very tenacious binder to SirT1 (EC50 in the vicinity of 10 uM), it will wash out relatively quickly as the concentration of resveratrol in the immediate vicinity of the enzyme drops. I don't know the relationship between the plasma concentration and the concentration in the immediate vicinity of the enzyme. That would be a function of the polarity of the microenvironment and the presence or absence of active transport systems, all of which are question marks. It does seem clear that based on measured plasma concentrations of resveratrol in humans, either a concentrating mechanism, an active metabolite, or a different (non-Sirt) mechanism entirely need to be invoked.

If SirT1 gets activated and deacetylates its targets, then they will remain deacetylated until such time as they are re-acetylated. I don't know how long that is, exactly, but it would likely persist longer than the resveratrol is around. This would be the basis for spike dosing of resveratrol. If the time lag for re-acetylation is long enough, it might be possible to dose less often than once a day. It might be the case that seven grams once a week is far better than one gram daily, but I don't have any basis upon which to specify what time period would or wouldn't work.

[craigb527]

niner, do you have any articles or links to studies on this?

[malbecman]

Not to get into a pissing contest but my sonicator is 100 watts! [tung] I picked it up used from a lab supply house. I think 60W should be plenty and I'd like to hear how it
compares with the stick blender method, foodoo.....

malbecman: what is the wattage of your sonicator?

The model listed above is 60W, and the Haier is 35W. Actually all of the Haier models are 35W - the fancier models simply have a slightly larger tank and 'interface features', such as longer timer settings.

for reference, Amazon's Haier: http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B0000BVGNJ/
foo

[Anthony_Loera]

So Max, what would be your best advice for increasing bioavailability of resveratrol.  Resveratrol with  ?  ?  ? [glasses]

Use a surfactant, I prefer lecithin. Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

To inhibit glucononidation, black pepper or an extract thereof. To inhibit sulfonation, possibly grapefruit juice or an extract -- this is surmise based on published sulfonation figures for various polyphenols, but hasn't been directly tested in any lab. I will be experimenting with cranberry to see if I note any effects.

Maxwatt,

Do you want to suggest a recipe for the sonicator? Sounds like you practically have a pretty complete one there.

Anthony

[maxwatt]

So Max, what would be your best advice for increasing bioavailability of resveratrol.  Resveratrol with  ?  ?  ? [glasses]

Use a surfactant, I prefer lecithin. Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

To inhibit glucononidation, black pepper or an extract thereof. To inhibit sulfonation, possibly grapefruit juice or an extract -- this is surmise based on published sulfonation figures for various polyphenols, but hasn't been directly tested in any lab. I will be experimenting with cranberry to see if I note any effects.

Maxwatt,

Do you want to suggest a recipe for the sonicator? Sounds like you practically have a pretty complete one there.

Anthony

I will be getting my sonicator -- actually, an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner -- and experimenting with lecithin solutions within about 10 days.

Using a sonicator to break up resveratrol into 10 micron sized particles, rather than grinding it, would be an interesting project. I don't think the jewelry cleaner would be suitable, perhaps an industrial grade unit -- these van run $1200 and up. Very much up. The main probem I think would be coupling the energy to the resveratrol, sufficient to get the particles to break up. This is easy in a liquid suspension, I think, not so much with powder.

[malbecman]

Anthony and Maxwatt,

My recipe is pretty simply. I add my 1/2 tsp lecithin into ~1 cup water and let it sit/stir until it dissolved. (some have reported letting it sit overnight). Add resveratrol and stir. I then place my glass into the bath of the sonicator (100W!!) which has ~2-3 inches of H20 in it and it ~1/3-1/2 the height of the liquid in the glass. Power on and I let it sonicate for ~ 5 minutes. 2-3 minutes looked too short for optimal dispersion and I did not want to go longer. Most liposome production methods I have read are along these lines. Then its chugging time.....

I'm looking around to find someone who will let me use their microscope w/ a micrometer and measure particle sizes before and after.........

Malbec

So Max, what would be your best advice for increasing bioavailability of resveratrol.  Resveratrol with  ?  ?  ? [glasses]

Use a surfactant, I prefer lecithin. Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

To inhibit glucononidation, black pepper or an extract thereof. To inhibit sulfonation, possibly grapefruit juice or an extract -- this is surmise based on published sulfonation figures for various polyphenols, but hasn't been directly tested in any lab. I will be experimenting with cranberry to see if I note any effects.

Maxwatt,

Do you want to suggest a recipe for the sonicator? Sounds like you practically have a pretty complete one there.

Anthony

[niner]

Using a sonicator to break up resveratrol into 10 micron sized particles, rather than grinding it, would be an interesting project. I don't think the jewelry cleaner would be suitable, perhaps an industrial grade unit -- these van run $1200 and up. Very much up. The main probem I think would be coupling the energy to the resveratrol, sufficient to get the particles to break up. This is easy in a liquid suspension, I think, not so much with powder.

Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

I've been looking into this since you guys brought it up, and it looks like a great idea. These guys: http://www.ultrasoni...ics/mill_01.htm have some info on micronization via ultrasonics, and it looks like it works great, even on some very hard compounds. I would expect resveratrol to be relatively soft and easy to ultrasonically mill. As far as the amount of power needed, ultrasonic-systems has a range of benchtop devices ranging from 50 to 250 watts, suggesting that not a huge amount of power is needed. I found a unit from Chicago Electric, at Harbor Freight. It's 160 watts, 2.5 litres, for $100. I've bought some other "Chicago Electric" (cheap Chinese imports) tools, and found them to be somewhat crude but effective. The Haier unit from Amazon is said to have a short duty cycle according to the reviews there- 3 minutes on, 5 minutes off or else it blows up in a few months. You probably want something a bit more robust than that.

[malbecman]

Nice website and link, Niner. They have some nice pics of some compounds being processed into much smaller particles. I agree, the 99% resveratrol powder I have seems pretty soft when compared to many of the compounds they have in the pics, eg, calcium carbonate/chalk. I also noticed no mention of the extremely high temps during cavitation that other posters here were concerned about. Here is their description from the website:

"The particle milling effect is based on intense ultrasonic cavitation. When sonicating liquids at high intensities, the sound waves that propagate into the liquid media result in alternating high-pressure (compression) and low-pressure (rarefaction) cycles, with rates depending on the frequency. During the low pressure cycle, high-intensity ultrasonic waves create small vacuum bubbles or voids in the liquid. When the bubbles attain a volume at which they can no longer absorb energy, they collapse violently during a high pressure cycle. This phenomenon is termed cavitation. The implosion of the cavitation bubbles results in microturbulences and micro-jets of up to 1000km/h. Large particles are subject to surface erosion (via cavitation collapse in the surrounding liquid) or particle size reduction (due to fission through interparticle collision or the collapse of cavitation bubbles formed on the surface). This leads to sharp acceleration of diffusion, mass-transfer processes and solid phase reactions due to crystallite size and structure changing."

Using a sonicator to break up resveratrol into 10 micron sized particles, rather than grinding it, would be an interesting project. I don't think the jewelry cleaner would be suitable, perhaps an industrial grade unit -- these van run $1200 and up. Very much up. The main probem I think would be coupling the energy to the resveratrol, sufficient to get the particles to break up. This is easy in a liquid suspension, I think, not so much with powder.

Ultrasonic device to ensure dispersion in solution, hopefully will break down the particles so micronized resveratrol isn't needed.

I've been looking into this since you guys brought it up, and it looks like a great idea. These guys: http://www.ultrasoni...ics/mill_01.htm have some info on micronization via ultrasonics, and it looks like it works great, even on some very hard compounds. I would expect resveratrol to be relatively soft and easy to ultrasonically mill. As far as the amount of power needed, ultrasonic-systems has a range of benchtop devices ranging from 50 to 250 watts, suggesting that not a huge amount of power is needed. I found a unit from Chicago Electric, at Harbor Freight. It's 160 watts, 2.5 litres, for $100. I've bought some other "Chicago Electric" (cheap Chinese imports) tools, and found them to be somewhat crude but effective. The Haier unit from Amazon is said to have a short duty cycle according to the reviews there- 3 minutes on, 5 minutes off or else it blows up in a few months. You probably want something a bit more robust than that.

[maxwatt]

Got my ultrasonic cleaner, and it works. Five minutes of buzzing, much better dispersion. Very little precipitates out. It also helps dissolve the lecithin faster. Noisy, though. (Note to self: hide wife's hearing aid before use.)