1708 replies to this topic

[missminni]

I did some DMSO research and actually am interested in trying it cutaneously,
on the skin, instead of sublingually. It sounds like a perfect transporter for the resveratrol.
They say it smells like garlic which isn't as bad as some other smells it could have been.
Has anyone here tried this method yet? Does the resveratrol powder dissolve in the DMSO?
Does anyone know if it can carry pregnenolone?
I am very interested in the idea of absorbing these supplements through the skin.
Any info anyone has would be much appreciated.
Also, a recommendation for a resource for the DMSO. TIA

I have extensive experience using DMSO in the OzBrew, a Rogaine, MSM, DMSO, L-Arginine mixture applied to the scalp after a week of peeling off the scalp with pure DMSO applied at least several times a day. Yes, the stuff does make you smell and taste garlic. But the amount is dose dependent. There is only one pharmaceutical grade DMSO, RIMSO50, and it's got a single blatter cyst usage. But the industrial grade has been used by athletes, on multi-million dollar horses. Since resveratrol is highly soluble in DMSO, you would not be using enough DMSO to give you much of a smell or taste. Your spouse might not like the smell. If she doesn't have her or you cook with plenty of fresh garlic. Him. If 8 mg. would transdermally would be the equivalent of 500 mg. ingested, I'd buy the purest resveratrol, pull out my gallon jug of DMSO and go to town. Of course wash the area thoroughly before placing DMSO and don't put it on your nads. The stuff can irritate, which is why it's often cut before used in athletics.

"Since resveratrol is highly soluble in DMSO",
This is great news!! Do you know if pregnenolone is? If it dissolves in it, can I assume it will be absorbed too?
Are you familiar with this product?
http://www.jacoblab.com/
So, if I understand correctly, sublingual/cutaneous dosage is usually one tenth of the oral dose. So to get the benefits of the oral dose 1200 mg of resveratrol I would
only have to use 120 mg of the powder dissolved in DMSO. Why hasn't anyone done this yet? or have they? It seems like a win win.
ETA~ I just wrote Dr. Jacobs Lab to see if he can suggest which DMSO product would be appropriate. I will keep you posted as to his reply. This is exciting.
second ETA~I just got a return phone call from Dr. Jacobs sales person and she suggested I talk to Dr. Jacobs himself on Monday and ask him if
it will work. So I will get back with you all on Monday and let you know. Thanks everyone for your input.

Edited by missminni, 09 November 2007 - 11:06 PM.

[browser]

I did some DMSO research and actually am interested in trying it cutaneously,
on the skin, instead of sublingually. It sounds like a perfect transporter for the resveratrol.
They say it smells like garlic which isn't as bad as some other smells it could have been.
Has anyone here tried this method yet? Does the resveratrol powder dissolve in the DMSO?
Does anyone know if it can carry pregnenolone?
I am very interested in the idea of absorbing these supplements through the skin.
Any info anyone has would be much appreciated.
Also, a recommendation for a resource for the DMSO. TIA

I have extensive experience using DMSO in the OzBrew, a Rogaine, MSM, DMSO, L-Arginine mixture applied to the scalp after a week of peeling off the scalp with pure DMSO applied at least several times a day. Yes, the stuff does make you smell and taste garlic. But the amount is dose dependent. There is only one pharmaceutical grade DMSO, RIMSO50, and it's got a single blatter cyst usage. But the industrial grade has been used by athletes, on multi-million dollar horses. Since resveratrol is highly soluble in DMSO, you would not be using enough DMSO to give you much of a smell or taste. Your spouse might not like the smell. If she doesn't have her or you cook with plenty of fresh garlic. Him. If 8 mg. would transdermally would be the equivalent of 500 mg. ingested, I'd buy the purest resveratrol, pull out my gallon jug of DMSO and go to town. Of course wash the area thoroughly before placing DMSO and don't put it on your nads. The stuff can irritate, which is why it's often cut before used in athletics.

"Since resveratrol is highly soluble in DMSO",
This is great news!! Do you know if pregnenolone is? If it dissolves in it, can I assume it will be absorbed too?
Are you familiar with this product?
http://www.jacoblab.com/
So, if I understand correctly, sublingual/cutaneous dosage is usually one tenth of the oral dose. So to get the benefits of the oral dose 1200 mg of resveratrol I would
only have to use 120 mg of the powder dissolved in DMSO. Why hasn't anyone done this yet? or have they? It seems like a win win.
ETA~ I just wrote Dr. Jacobs Lab to see if he can suggest which DMSO product would be appropriate. I will keep you posted as to his reply. This is exciting.

OK, resveratrol is not as soluble in DMSO as it is in ethanol. But ethanol doesn't pull things through the skin into the bloodstream. 16g/L is 16 mg/ 1 ml. If we just need 10-20 mg. in transdermal to equal 500 mg. by mouth, then we're looking at 1-2 ml of DMSO: not enough to have the noticeable garlic effect. Now 1200 mg, say 4-5 ml DMSO. Still not much.

Yes, I saw you sourced DMSO. During the life of the OzBrew group (about a year and a half) we debated the perils of DMSO and got some really good COAs from companies. RIMSO50 is a prescription item which has the garlicly non-toxic byproduct of DMSO production filtered out and made of course, under USP conditions. The only way to get it would be from your doctor, and he'd be prescribing it for off-label use.

[rabagley]

Now 1200 mg, say 4-5 ml DMSO. Still not much.

You must have made an arithmetic error. For 1200mg of resveratrol, you'd need 75ml DMSO. About a quarter cup of liquid. That gets expensive and I suspect that that much would cause garlic breath.

[missminni]

browser:
Yes, I saw you sourced DMSO. During the life of the OzBrew group (about a year and a half) we debated the perils of DMSO and got some really good COAs from companies. RIMSO50 is a prescription item which has the garlicly non-toxic byproduct of DMSO production filtered out and made of course, under USP conditions. The only way to get it would be from your doctor, and he'd be prescribing it for off-label use.

From my understanding, Dr. Jacobs is the man who pioneered research on DMSO
https://jacoblab.com/AboutUs.htm
and he offers it as well as MSM for sale in different solutions, no doctor needed.
However, his does have the garlic smell, according to what I was told.
I plan on speaking with him on Monday or Tuesday. I will post what he says.

[missminni]

You must have made an arithmetic error.  For 1200mg of resveratrol, you'd need 75ml DMSO.  About a quarter cup of liquid.  That gets expensive and I suspect that that much would cause garlic breath.

Acutally, that 1200 mg of resveratrol is the oral dose. Cutaneously it would be 120 mg. How much DMSO would one need
for 120 mg.? maybe 7.5ml of DMSO I am guessing.
that would be a tenth of a quarter of a cup. does that sound right?

[browser]

You must have made an arithmetic error.  For 1200mg of resveratrol, you'd need 75ml DMSO.  About a quarter cup of liquid.  That gets expensive and I suspect that that much would cause garlic breath.

True enough. But it's been stated on here (can't find the post right now) that something like 8-20 mg. transdermal would be the equivalent of 500 mg. taken orally. So my math is based on the equivalent of 1200 mg taken by mouth drawn directly into the bloodstream instead.

[rabagley]

I find that the equivalent dose for oral and sublingual pregenolone is about 100mg oral = 5-10mg sublingual and that the exact dosage equivalency depends on the person. 

The smallest sublingual dosage at my local health foods store is 10mg, but I found that to be too much for me, so I cut them in half and have been quite happy.

(added resveratrol discussion)

Could you share with us non-resv-yet people how you knew that dose was too much for you?

Just to make sure we're clear, missmini was asking about sublingual pregnenolone. I have not yet tried sublingual resveratrol, though I did consider dissolving it in DMSO. I hadn't speculated that the dose reduction could be as dramatic as Anthony suggested, so I set it aside as unpractical.

To answer your question: when I first took the entire 10mg sublingual pregnenolone, I had a reaction about an hour later with elevated heart rate, rapid breathing, and a small amount of anxiety. I had one other change to my stack that day: I started taking 325mg of DMAE, and I stopped both, then started the DMAE for several days, then took another pregnenolone. An hour after the preg, I had elevated heart rate, rapid breathing, not as much anxiety. I split the pill in half and had no negative reaction, so I now take 5mg pregnenolone two or three times weekly.

I currently take 1000mg resveratrol daily (orally in a liquid suspension with grapefruit juice), I do not notice any negative or positive effects (didn't expect to). I have not been analyzing exercise data to see if there is any benefit (endurance, etc.). I have not noticed a reduction in delayed onset muscle soreness (which is good, since that's an important indication of muscular development). I will probably try a daily dose of 32mg t-res in 2ml DMSO and see if I get some of the effects that others have anecdotally reported from higher oral doses (>2000mg/day).

[rabagley]

Anthony speculated that 4mg t-res intravenously might be the same as some unspecified oral dose. I went further along his speculation by assuming an oral equivalent dose of 500mg. Then I speculated that there would be at least a 2x dilution/delayed response for transdermal vs. intravenous.

So, 8mg transdermal being the equivalent of 500mg oral is based on speculation over speculation.

It's certainly not based on an examination of blood plasma levels or any other hard data.

[maxwatt]

You must have made an arithmetic error.  For 1200mg of resveratrol, you'd need 75ml DMSO.  About a quarter cup of liquid.  That gets expensive and I suspect that that much would cause garlic breath.

Acutally, that 1200 mg of resveratrol is the oral dose. Cutaneously it would be 120 mg. How much DMSO would one need
for 120 mg.? maybe 7.5ml of DMSO I am guessing.
that would be a tenth of a quarter of a cup. does that sound right?

Solubility in DMSO 16 g/L

So each millileter would hold 16 milligrams. 120/16 = 7.5. You are spot on.
30 ml = 1 ounce, so thats a quarter ounce, with 8 ounces in a cup, 1/32 cup.
Or one half a tablespoon, which equals one and a half teaspoons.

[missminni]

You must have made an arithmetic error.  For 1200mg of resveratrol, you'd need 75ml DMSO.  About a quarter cup of liquid.  That gets expensive and I suspect that that much would cause garlic breath.

Acutally, that 1200 mg of resveratrol is the oral dose. Cutaneously it would be 120 mg. How much DMSO would one need
for 120 mg.? maybe 7.5ml of DMSO I am guessing.
that would be a tenth of a quarter of a cup. does that sound right?

Solubility in DMSO 16 g/L

So each millileter would hold 16 milligrams. 120/16 = 7.5. You are spot on.
30 ml = 1 ounce, so thats a quarter ounce, with 8 ounces in a cup, 1/32 cup.
Or one half a tablespoon, which equals one and a half teaspoons.

I guess I'm a good guesser, but I just divided by 10. That's sounds very doable.
I was wondering if you have to mix
the DMSO and the substance (preg or resv) per dosage, or could one mix a batch
in advance. Would the product degrade once it was combined? Is there any information
about that.
ETA~The salesperson from Dr. Jacobs said they make a gel and a liguid. They don't make a cream because
the cream slows down absorption. She said the gel would be suitable for cutaneous application.

I am thinking that a gel of DMSO, pregnenlone and resveratrol all in one might be
convenient. Especially if one has joint pain and it was applied on the joint.

[maxwatt]

Resveratrol is relatively stable as a dry powder. In solution, is isomerizes to cis-resveratrol, especially with lab lighting, which contains considerable amounts of ultra-violet. In an acid solution, cis-resveratrol converts to trans-resveratrol.

I would guess that if your solution were midly acidic, and you kept it in a light-proof r amber container, it wold probably be stable for as much as a few weeks, certainly for several days. To truly know, you have to try it.

[browser]

Resveratrol is relatively stable as a dry powder.  In solution, is isomerizes to cis-resveratrol, especially with lab lighting, which contains considerable amounts of ultra-violet.  In an acid solution, cis-resveratrol converts to trans-resveratrol.

I would guess that if your solution were midly acidic, and you kept it in a light-proof r amber container, it wold probably be stable for as much as a few weeks, certainly for several days.  To truly know, you have to try it.

I thought "in solution" meant in water. Do we have proof that resv will flip into cis in DMSO?

[maxwatt]

Resveratrol is relatively stable as a dry powder.  In solution, is isomerizes to cis-resveratrol, especially with lab lighting, which contains considerable amounts of ultra-violet.  In an acid solution, cis-resveratrol converts to trans-resveratrol.

I would guess that if your solution were midly acidic, and you kept it in a light-proof r amber container, it wold probably be stable for as much as a few weeks, certainly for several days.  To truly know, you have to try it.

I thought "in solution" meant in water. Do we have proof that resv will flip into cis in DMSO?

A solute need not be water. Generally, substances are less stable in solution than as a solid; the molecules are mobile and have more chance to react. While I know of no study specifically of the stability of trans-resveratrol in DMSO, we know it is unstable in other solutes, and stability cannot be assumed for DMSO. In fact, it is rather unlikely.

[missminni]

Resveratrol is relatively stable as a dry powder.  In solution, is isomerizes to cis-resveratrol, especially with lab lighting, which contains considerable amounts of ultra-violet.  In an acid solution, cis-resveratrol converts to trans-resveratrol.

I would guess that if your solution were midly acidic, and you kept it in a light-proof r amber container, it wold probably be stable for as much as a few weeks, certainly for several days.  To truly know, you have to try it.

I thought "in solution" meant in water. Do we have proof that resv will flip into cis in DMSO?

A solute need not be water. Generally, substances are less stable in solution than as a solid; the molecules are mobile and have more chance to react. While I know of no study specifically of the stability of trans-resveratrol in DMSO, we know it is unstable in other solutes, and stability cannot be assumed for DMSO. In fact, it is rather unlikely.

That makes sense. The best way to use it would be to mix it before each application.
Otherwise you probably would have to add stabilizers or preservatives and you wouldn't want
those to be absorbed.
ETA~just realized that combining preg and resv in same application was not a good idea. They might
affect one another adversely once they are in a solution.

Edited by missminni, 10 November 2007 - 03:54 PM.

[browser]

Resveratrol is relatively stable as a dry powder.  In solution, is isomerizes to cis-resveratrol, especially with lab lighting, which contains considerable amounts of ultra-violet.  In an acid solution, cis-resveratrol converts to trans-resveratrol.

I would guess that if your solution were midly acidic, and you kept it in a light-proof r amber container, it wold probably be stable for as much as a few weeks, certainly for several days.  To truly know, you have to try it.

I thought "in solution" meant in water. Do we have proof that resv will flip into cis in DMSO?

A solute need not be water. Generally, substances are less stable in solution than as a solid; the molecules are mobile and have more chance to react. While I know of no study specifically of the stability of trans-resveratrol in DMSO, we know it is unstable in other solutes, and stability cannot be assumed for DMSO. In fact, it is rather unlikely.

That makes sense. The best way to use it would be to mix it before each application.
Otherwise you probably would have to add stabilizers or preservatives and you wouldn't want
those to be absorbed.
ETA~just realized that combining preg and resv in same application was not a good idea. They might
affect one another adversely once they are in a solution.

Yes, it does make sense. I was playing devil's advocate. Anything that'll dissolve resveratrol will most likely provide the environment for the trans to become cis. Since guys are mixing this stuff as they go now, it's doesn't seem like it would be such a big deal.

Well, now comes the problem of whether or not it's safe to take a 99% extract in DMSO. I've actually never heard a concern about being infected when using DMSO as a transport medium. Any thoughts? Hmm, it would be cool to take high enough doses to kill off fat cells. Figure taking high doses for a couple weeks. And by high doses I'm talking, say, 500-1gm mg in DMSO. Yes, one would have to put up with some smell and taste problems from the DMSO but I did that before when I was doing the OzBrew regimine.

[missminni]

Browser Well, now comes the problem of whether or not it's safe to take a 99% extract in DMSO. I've actually never heard a concern about being infected when using DMSO as a transport medium. Any thoughts? Hmm, it would be cool to take high enough doses to kill off fat cells. Figure taking high doses for a couple weeks. And by high doses I'm talking, say, 500-1gm mg in DMSO.

Being infected? They do warn you to wash your skin before applying it because if there is anything on your skin, the DMSO will transport it. I believe the DMSO from Jacobslab comes in 50% and 70% solutions.
500 to 1 gm resveratrol cutaneously would be such a mega dose, I would worry. If they are suggesting an oral dose 10 mg per 10 lbs of body weight, then a 150 lb person would take 1.5 grams orally. It was stated earlier that sub-lingual or cutaneous doses are 10% of an oral dose. That would mean you would be taking 10 times the highest recommended dosage. IMO that's too extreme.
"kill off fat cells"? Is that one of the mechanisms of resveratrol?

[browser]

Being infected? They do warn you to wash your skin before applying it because if there is anything on your skin, the DMSO will transport it. I believe the DMSO from Jacobslab comes in 50% and 70% solutions.
500 to 1 gm resveratrol cutaneously would be such a mega dose, I would worry. If they are suggesting an oral dose 10 mg per 10 lbs of body weight, then a 150 lb person would take 1.5 grams orally. It was stated earlier that sub-lingual or cutaneous doses are 10% of an oral dose. That would mean you would be taking 10 times the highest recommended dosage. IMO that's too extreme.
"kill off fat cells"?  Is that one of the mechanisms of resveratrol?

Here's a link to the posts about killing fat cells: yet another resveratrol forum. Taking many times the recommended dose appears to be what's needed here. Gosh, keeping track of what's said in each thread is a real chore.

Edited by browser, 10 November 2007 - 08:10 PM.

[missminni]

that link doesn't work. If it "kills" fat cells when mega dosed, that makes me think it might kill something else too.

[browser]

that link doesn't work. If it "kills" fat cells when mega dosed, that makes me think it might kill something else too.

Sorry, too many http's . I fixed the link in my original post and am including it here as well:

Can't we organize the resveratrol fora?

BTW, the Chinese are stinkers but are going after the resveratrol market in a big way. I predict that our esteemed vendors will be switching to much cheaper, analyzed for toxins synthesized resveratrol. I remember the mystique surrounding melatonin and DHEA. We read about the wonders of these substances but only researchers could get their hands on them. If the FDA doesn't step in and declare this stuff a drug (thereby making us in the US import the stuff under their noses like we import other things like glucophage many of us sneak into the country). I suspect we'll have sterile, transdermal and oral 100% pure trans resveratrol flooding the market in the next year or two. I'm healthy enough and young enough (plus I really don't need the stuff for most of its properties, because I don't show many of the symptoms resveratrol is looking to treat) to be able to wait. But, if I'm convinced that I can get sizable safe doses via DMSO using the 99% stuff, I'd be happy to go order capsules of the 99% resveratrol extract from knotweed. I can't purchase from 100% powder from the guy in Canada because we've had words. Not the easiest of people to get along with.

Edited by browser, 10 November 2007 - 09:03 PM.

[missminni]

that link doesn't work. If it "kills" fat cells when mega dosed, that makes me think it might kill something else too.

Sorry, too many http's . I fixed the link in my original post and am including it here as well:

Can't we organize the resveratrol fora?

BTW, the Chinese are stinkers but are going after the resveratrol market in a big way. I predict that our esteemed vendors will be switching to much cheaper, analyzed for toxins synthesized resveratrol. I remember the mystique surrounding melatonin and DHEA. We read about the wonders of these substances but only researchers could get their hands on them. If the FDA doesn't step in and declare this stuff a drug (thereby making us in the US import the stuff under their noses like we import other things like glucophage many of us sneak into the country). I suspect we'll have sterile, transdermal and oral 100% pure trans resveratrol flooding the market in the next year or two. I'm healthy enough and young enough (plus I really don't need the stuff for most of its properties, because I don't show many of the symptoms resveratrol is looking to treat) to be able to wait. But, if I'm convinced that I can get sizable safe doses via DMSO using the 99% stuff, I'd be happy to go order capsules of the 99% resveratrol extract from knotweed. I can't purchase from 100% powder from the guy in Canada because we've had words. Not the easiest of people to get along with.

Thanks. I just read the link and it was like reading a foreign language. I have no idea what I read until the last sentence.
Have they done any studies with obese people yet?
Also,
I think there are others who post here that have the pure powder who seem very easy to get along with (;
You could probably get the powder from them. i think it's 98.7% pure.
What is Knotweed? Is it another source for resveratrol, like polygonum cuspidatum?

Edited by missminni, 11 November 2007 - 03:43 AM.

[browser]

that link doesn't work. If it "kills" fat cells when mega dosed, that makes me think it might kill something else too.

Sorry, too many http's . I fixed the link in my original post and am including it here as well:

Can't we organize the resveratrol fora?

BTW, the Chinese are stinkers but are going after the resveratrol market in a big way. I predict that our esteemed vendors will be switching to much cheaper, analyzed for toxins synthesized resveratrol. I remember the mystique surrounding melatonin and DHEA. We read about the wonders of these substances but only researchers could get their hands on them. If the FDA doesn't step in and declare this stuff a drug (thereby making us in the US import the stuff under their noses like we import other things like glucophage many of us sneak into the country). I suspect we'll have sterile, transdermal and oral 100% pure trans resveratrol flooding the market in the next year or two. I'm healthy enough and young enough (plus I really don't need the stuff for most of its properties, because I don't show many of the symptoms resveratrol is looking to treat) to be able to wait. But, if I'm convinced that I can get sizable safe doses via DMSO using the 99% stuff, I'd be happy to go order capsules of the 99% resveratrol extract from knotweed. I can't purchase from 100% powder from the guy in Canada because we've had words. Not the easiest of people to get along with.

Thanks. I just read the link and it was like reading a foreign language. I have no idea what I read until the last sentence.
Have they done any studies with obese people yet?
Also,
I think there are others who post here that have the pure powder who seem very easy to get along with (;
You could probably get the powder from them. i think it's 98.7% pure.
What is Knotweed? Is it another source for resveratrol, like polygonum cuspidatum?

Knotweed is polygonum cuspidatum. I did start a new topic about the assertion, which I believe is promoted by the vendors of polygonum cuspidatum (I've seen the scare on at least one of the websites which uses this website as a marketing tool) asking whether or not one should worry about "genetic byproducts" in the synthetic stuff. You and I eat genetic material all the time yet we continue to stay human. Genetic byproducts is not the same as eating birds with the flu or meat of cows with wasting syndrome.

Tested on humans? This is the cocaine of a century ago. This cures all ills. Why bother with human tests when every researcher has jumped on the band wagon? It was tough going there when the only thing researchers had as the next miracle was ALT-721

Edited by browser, 11 November 2007 - 03:52 AM.

[missminni]

Knotweed is polygonum cuspidatum. I did start a new topic about the assertion, which I believe is promoted by the vendors of polygonum cuspidatum (I've seen the scare on at least one of the websites which uses this website as a marketing tool) asking whether or not one should worry about "genetic byproducts" in the synthetic stuff. You and I eat genetic material all the time yet we continue to stay human. Genetic byproducts is not the same as eating birds with the flu or meat of cows with wasting syndrome.

What is the synthetic stuff made from?
I always prefer to take something that is derived from a natural source, although with pollution being what it is and genetic engineering of food, I'd be hard pressed to figure out which is more dangerous to our health.
How is knotweed processed to produce resveratrol?
ETA~
I found this article from Aug 7th, 2007 which I thought might be of interest if not seen yet:
Sabinsa Issued Patent for Process of Manufacturing Resveratrol and Related Polyphenols
click here to read

Edited by missminni, 11 November 2007 - 03:44 AM.

[browser]

The US patent office doesn't have to have proof that something works. There are numerous anti-gravity devices/machines which have been patented. Though more than likely a chemical company actually did research (in the lab, we don't know if the process scales or what the cost to manufacture would be). I used to work at Dupont's Pioneer Engineering Laboratory. We patented every result we got just in case someone else came along and found the same thing and decided to take it to market. Hopefully this patent brings real production and we'll be swimming in these compounds. By that time we'll have turned away from this miracle and be pursing the next one or we'll be picking up the bodies of people currently taking these compounds.

BTW, I'm not all that keen on natural things. For as far back as family history goes every member of my family has died of NATURAL CAUSES. <G>

Edited by browser, 11 November 2007 - 04:16 AM.

[niner]

It was stated earlier that sub-lingual or cutaneous doses are 10% of an oral dose.

Let's all bear in mind that this is a Wild Guess. Maybe it's one percent, maybe it's 1000 percent. We Don't Know.

[browser]

Let's all bear in mind that this is a Wild Guess.  Maybe it's one percent, maybe it's 1000 percent.  We Don't Know.

True enough. But we have comparisons. B12 oral vs. B12 sublingual (genetic predisposition and medication [e.g. glucophage] can make oral B12 unavailable). Pregnonolone, most likely comparison, 10 mg. sublingual = 100 mg. oral.

[missminni]

browser: BTW, I'm not all that keen on natural things. For as far back as family history goes every member of my family has died of NATURAL CAUSES.

LOL
RE:sublingual dosage: Is there ever a case where the dosage would be higher sublingually?
I have heard they are usually 10% of the oral dose elsewhere as well.

[maxwatt]

LOL
RE:sublingual dosage: Is there  ever a case where the dosage would be higher sublingually?
I have heard they are usually 10% of the oral dose elsewhere as well.

Sublingual bioavailability is very complex, depending on solubility, molecular weight, polar area, number of rotatable double bonds, et al..
The most exstensive treatment of the topic I could find is a Phd dissertation from the University of Utrecht: Physicochemical properties required for an optimal systemic availability of drugs in relation to the route of administration

Sublingal/buccal, nasal, transdermal, rectal and vaginal delivery bypass first pass metabolism (by the liver) but subject the substance administered to different local processes of administration, that vary from oral administration. The relationship is not a constant percentage, but quite variable, depending on the specific metabolization of the drug in question, and can vary among individuals.

[browser]

LOL
RE:sublingual dosage: Is there  ever a case where the dosage would be higher sublingually?
I have heard they are usually 10% of the oral dose elsewhere as well.

Sublingual bioavailability is very complex, depending on solubility, molecular weight, polar area, number of rotatable double bonds, et al..
The most exstensive treatment of the topic I could find is a Phd dissertation from the University of Utrecht: Physicochemical properties required for an optimal systemic availability of drugs in relation to the route of administration

Sublingal/buccal, nasal, transdermal, rectal and vaginal delivery bypass first pass metabolism (by the liver) but subject the substance administered to different local processes of administration, that vary from oral administration. The relationship is not a constant percentage, but quite variable, depending on the specific metabolization of the drug in question, and can vary among individuals.

Well, now we're in a pickle because folks here can't decide the best oral way to take the stuff. Milk, vodka, PEG, cocoa, multiple doses, one big dose, with or without other polyphenols.

[maxwatt]

LOL
RE:sublingual dosage: Is there  ever a case where the dosage would be higher sublingually?
I have heard they are usually 10% of the oral dose elsewhere as well.

Sublingual bioavailability is very complex, depending on solubility, molecular weight, polar area, number of rotatable double bonds, et al..
The most exstensive treatment of the topic I could find is a Phd dissertation from the University of Utrecht: Physicochemical properties required for an optimal systemic availability of drugs in relation to the route of administration

Sublingal/buccal, nasal, transdermal, rectal and vaginal delivery bypass first pass metabolism (by the liver) but subject the substance administered to different local processes of administration, that vary from oral administration. The relationship is not a constant percentage, but quite variable, depending on the specific metabolization of the drug in question, and can vary among individuals.

Well, now we're in a pickle because folks here can't decide the best oral way to take the stuff. Milk, vodka, PEG, cocoa, multiple doses, one big dose, with or without other polyphenols.

If you're not confused, you haven't been following the topic. At least if you're male, you don't have to worry about taking it vaginally.

Sinclair knows more than perhaps anyone on methods of administration. He has apparently chosen micronized resveratrol with a surfactant, Tween80, and oral administration, to achieve serum levels about 4 times higher than oral resveratrol. PEG (miralax) and lecithin are alternate surfactants, and appear to work as well according to those who use them. Vodka (or better Everclear, 95% ethanol) are used to dissolve the resveratrol, obviating the need for micronization. Tween80 (Polysorbate 80) tastes awful. PE3350 is a laxative. Lecthin adds calories. Cocoa is irrelevant. Various polyphenols are hoped to improve bioavailability by limiting sulfonation and glucoronidation, Sinclair does not use them. Quercetin may help that way, but too much counteracts resveratrol's SirT activation, and no one is sure of the proper dose to use, if any. Milk, I've noted, is a very effective solute, but we don't know if it binds resveratrol, thus inactivating it. Judging by my own response (decreased arthritic symptoms, probably from blocking nf Kappa P) milk probably increases bioavailability. Hormeosis has indicated he will come up with a formula of polyphenols to increase bioavailability.

As for area-under-the-curve versus peak-levels (divided doses versus one big dose), niner and others theorize the highest peak dose is needed, but Sirtris (in one of the investor presentations on their website) indicate they are going for area-under-the-curve. Perhaps a minimum threshold serum concentration is needed, and the longer it is maintained, the better it works. Also in that presentation is a reference to resveratrol extending life span in mice by 30%; perhaps a reference to the as yet unpublished paper complementing the one last year with over-fed mice with and without resveratrol; he said he had a group of mice on normal diet plus resveratrol, but was waiting for them to die before he could publish a comparison. This is worth a separate post, perhaps with a new topic. When and if he publishes, expect Sirtris' share price to jump.

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If you're not confused, you haven't been following the topic.  At least if you're male, you don't have to worry about taking it vaginally. 

Sinclair knows more than perhaps anyone on methods of administration.  He has apparently chosen micronized resveratrol with a surfactant, Tween80, and oral administration, to achieve serum levels about 4 times higher than oral resveratrol.  PEG (miralax) and lecithin are alternate surfactants, and appear to work as well according to those who use them.  Vodka (or better Everclear, 95% ethanol) are used to dissolve the resveratrol, obviating the need for micronization.  Tween80 (Polysorbate 80) tastes awful.  PE3350 is a laxative.  Lecthin adds calories.  Cocoa is irrelevant.  Various polyphenols are hoped to improve bioavailability by limiting sulfonation and glucoronidation,  Sinclair does not use them.  Quercetin may help that way, but too much counteracts resveratrol's SirT activation, and no one is sure of the proper dose to use, if any.  Milk, I've noted, is a very effective solute, but we don't know if it binds resveratrol, thus inactivating it.  Judging by my own response (decreased arthritic symptoms, probably from blocking nf Kappa P) milk probably increases bioavailability.  Hormeosis has indicated he will come up with a formula of polyphenols to increase bioavailability.

As for area-under-the-curve versus peak-levels (divided doses versus one big dose), niner and others theorize the highest peak dose is needed, but Sirtris (in one of the investor presentations on their website) indicate they are going for area-under-the-curve.  Perhaps a minimum threshold serum concentration is needed, and the longer it is maintained, the better it works.  Also in that presentation is a reference to resveratrol extending life span in mice by 30%; perhaps a reference to the as yet unpublished paper complementing the one last year with over-fed mice with and without resveratrol; he said he had a group of mice on normal diet plus resveratrol, but was waiting for them to die before he could publish a comparison.  This is worth a  separate post, perhaps with a new topic.  When and if he publishes, expect Sirtris' share price to jump.

Maxwatt, thanks for the review. Interesting that Sinclair, who's done the most work, takes a reasonable dose and isn't agonizing over how to mix/take resveratrol for his own use. If the French paradox exists (the French eat smaller portions than Americans and do eat like rural people I've met in the southern US, sometimes making an entire meal out of whatever just sprouted in the garden). If the paradox is due to resveratrol, it's due to small doses over a long period of time. While it's interesting to read accounts of actually killing fat cells and making mice muscle bound, we're still basing most of what we believe to be a wonder substance on experiments with rats. These are less complex creatures that aren't exposed to the perils of pollution and everyday life us humans are. If what expands lifespan in fruitflies applied to humans, we'd all be waiting to write our wills when we got to be 250 years old. I remember the promise of DHEA and melatonin and how excited everyone was to get their hands on these things as quickly as they could. There's still a craze over ALT-711 even though Alteon hasn't been all that succesful. If Alteon's substances worked so well in cosmetics, we'd be hearing more about the cosmetics which contain the analogs than we have (I've heard that it increase hydration, period). It looks like a lot more research, particularly in humans, is in order here. I'd be willing to bet that when that research is done we'll find that there's a whole lot less to resveratrol in humans than meets the hype.