1708 replies to this topic

[niner]

What are your thoughts of the Holstein Pharmaceutical: www.redwinepatch.com This seems to be an easier way than using DMSO to transport the t-res into the bloodstream.

I agree with Maxwatt; in fact I will go as far as to say that I consider this product fraudulent. From their annoying and buggy website, I found this:

Each Patch contains 100mg of 98% pure Resveratrol. Studies of our patch are ongoing to determine the actual absorption.

"Studies are ongoing". I bet they'll be ongoing for a long time, because if they actually drew blood from someone using the patch, and ran the published HPLC assay for resveratrol, they would find next to nothing there. This experiment would take approximately one day. I don't expect they will be reporting it any time soon.

[sUper GeNius]

Just wanted to relay a significant benefit I can only attribute to my taking 3 to 5 grams of t-res over the last couple of months. I have had *none* of the gingivitis I usually have. Had been taking lesser quantities, about a gram, but this had no effect on occasional but persistent gingivitis I have been having for a few years now. It seems the increase to 3-5 grams did the trick!

I cannot attribute this change to anything else but the t-res.

[vitaminboss]

With a history of chronic fatigue, reactive hypoglycemia (carb intolerance) cancer and successful chemotherapy treatment, body felt like crap needless to say, SO i gave 500mg T-Res a try due to the Mitochondrial genesis findings in muscle among the other beneficial effects i've READ about.. (anti-arrhythmic, neurprotective, antidepressive, insulin sensitizer etc). Lo and behold upon beginning taking 1 5mg capsule before bed i slowly felt i could tolerate carbs easier withoout causing anxiety and weakness. I could wake up out of bed faster and felt lighter on my feet, and the effect built up more and more to the point where i felt more or less great! Stamina improved, and ability to handle stress and sleep deprivation also improved. I believe this molecule to have an adaptogenic effect on the stress response. It strenthens the stress response, while simulating excersize and sensitizing cells to insulin as well as inhibiting insulin secretion by the pancreas..

ANYWAY, 2 months later, something goes drastically WRONG! I over exerted myself after a week of not eating the same amount of calories I normally would. Next thing you know i get irregular heart beats, exhaustion, GI problems begin, so what do i do? I drop it cold turkey and thats when things got WORSE!! I felt DRAINED, i couldnt get out of bed, severe anxiety out of energy depletion! Carb intolerance worse than ever before, I haven't felt this bad in YEARS!! Heart felt like jello, irregular rhythms all over, mood and concentration went down the tubes! No B vitamin oral or injection was able to work! Not even Niacin injections, nothing!! high doses of B vitamins weren't working, regular CoQ10 didnt work either. Hardly any of supplements worked to get me out of this horrific fatigue. I ended up buying UBIQUINOL the reduced active form of Q10 and it did show promise. Added on NADH (which by the way Resveratrol binds and inhibits), aside from that Resveratrol COMPETES with UBIQUINOL at complex III in the electron transport chain!! Basically RESVERATROL hijacks your entire metabolism, overstimulates the mitochondria, thus exhausting all other energetic resources which can cause PROFOUND metabolic disturbances upon withdrawal!! NADH is somewhat pulling me together barely. Its interesting that even ascorbic acid made me feel worse when it used to be my savior prior to Res use. All I can think of is that perhaps the Hydrogen ions in the CoQH2 and NADH catalyze ATP synthesis and thus try to resususciate the cell back to proper metabolism and glucose transport. Oxidized forms of anything don't help, (NIACIN didnt yet NADH does).... Anway, this was an intense experiment, and i wouldn't play with this substance again, it effects too large of a cascade of enzymes within the genome, it literally takes over your entire physiology and rewrites it. I didn't mind cause I thought it would ultimately regenerate new mitochondria and promote DNA repair. Now i feel worse than I felt right after chemotherapy!!! ANY IDEAS ANYONE??

Edited by vitaminboss, 16 June 2008 - 01:47 AM.

[niner]

ANY IDEAS ANYONE??

All this from 500mg/day? I think that you're ascribing more activities to resveratrol than it really has, although it's possible that you're very sensitive to it. When you stopped it and then felt worse, did you consider starting it again?
Were you taking a 50% resveratrol product? That might have had something to do with feeling better at first, if so. Even if you were taking 500mg/day of 99% resveratrol, I don't think that's enough for mitochondrial biogenesis. It does sound like you have very unusual physiology, so again, it's possible that resveratrol has unusual effects on you.

Are you under a doctor's care for these conditions? What does the doctor say?

[maxwatt]

It's also possible that vitaminboss became ill from some other cause, coincidently to having started reseratrol, then stopped taking it. As he slowly recovered, he experimented with other substances (note vitamin C did not have its usual effect on him) and ascribed feeling better to whatever he had tried taking. The problem with a sample size of one is that it doesn't really tell you anything certain.

Many people here have taken this dose and far larger amounts, for far longer periods. AFAIK, none of them have reported such negative effects, and many have reporte continuing positive results.

Edited by maxwatt, 16 June 2008 - 02:48 AM.

[dachshund]

I have been taking 2000 mgs (99%) t-res daily for quite sometime. I do travel internationally, usually 7 - 10 days, from time to time and do not take the t-res powder with me as I have been concerned about having issues with US or international customs asking questions about opened packages containing white powder. I have never had any type of withdrawl symptoms going cold turkey off this dose. One thing I do notice when going back onto the 2000 mg dose is that my word and memory recall seem noticably crisper when taking t-res. I wish Vitaminboss all the best with his health!!

[vitaminboss]

I was taking a 99% pure formula. I took nothing else than what i regularly took before, whole food supplements royal jelly bee pollen, grapeseed extract, pycnogenol, B vitamins, Natural Vitamin C (fermented) and sometimes Ascorbic Acid. It was definetly Resveratrol kicking in. Before taking it, i had muscle weakness and VERY low stamina. I doubt it was purely its Antidepressive effects that gave me strength and stamina. Point being, the reason i stopped taking it was because I reached some sort of plateu and exhausted my system. Perhaps i should have tapered off to a 50% purity and then to an even smaller dosage.. The withdrawal is worse than with some Adaptogens that actually DO NOT nourish the glandular system but exhaust the hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenals, it seems on an organ/system level Resveratrol did the same. (The HPT, HPA axis, liver and pancreas correspond to energy metabolism at the cellular level) Its corresponding effects on enzymes and genes tells me that it revs up and stimulates oxidative phosphorylation in the mitochondria, but it inhibits several key energetic catalysts. I just think that it can wear out someone metabolism and wouldn't suggest it to people with metabolic issues, at least not at such high doses. If it was an endogenous compound, I doubt there would be such withdrawal. At large doses like 500mg it can create a state of dependency of the organism and then G-d knows how to recuperate from that. My system is weird I admit, because of a probably hereditary glucose transport issue (hypoglycemia, reactive). Point being the fact that NADH, NAD or Niacin shouldnt be taken with Resveratrol makes one think. NADH is Coenzyme 1 the body's main energy cofactor for the production of ATP. Resveratrol binds Niacin, NAD, NADH. What about the fact that Resveratrol competes with Ubiquinol at complex III? These are very important endogenous bio-energetic co-enzymes and someone needs to look into this deeper.

Edited by vitaminboss, 16 June 2008 - 04:54 AM.

[vitaminboss]

I have been taking 2000 mgs (99%) t-res daily for quite sometime. I do travel internationally, usually 7 - 10 days, from time to time and do not take the t-res powder with me as I have been concerned about having issues with US or international customs asking questions about opened packages containing white powder. I have never had any type of withdrawl symptoms going cold turkey off this dose. One thing I do notice when going back onto the 2000 mg dose is that my word and memory recall seem noticably crisper when taking t-res. I wish Vitaminboss all the best with his health!!

I guess your body is extremely resilient at returning to a homeostatic metabolic set point after discontinuation of use. Did anyone ever thing of the genomic consequences of drastically discontinuing use of RESV? I think that would be a major stress on the body's systems to rewire so many various parameters after getting used to this "natural" substance. Maybe it should only be used on generally "healthy" individuals do to their resilience. If this is used in patients with neurological or metabolic issues, they may have problems.

[vitaminboss]

I quote the Journal of Biological Chemistry - Mechanism of Human SIRT-1 Activation by Resveratrol:

'Of all the NAD+-like
metabolites and salvage pathway intermediates analyzed for regulatory activities on Sir2
enzymes, only nicotinamide displayed a level of inhibition that was consistent with a
physiological role (37). Nicotinamide is the most potent inhibitor of Sir2 enzymes to
date (38-40), and was shown to inhibit Sir2-dependent lifespan extension (41). NADH
was previously shown to be a competitive inhibitor of NAD+ in vitro (42), however, the
high mM binding constant for NADH indicates that cellular NADH levels are unlikely to
regulate Sir2 activity under most physiological conditions (37)."

Does this mean taking NADH should not interfere with Resveratrol SIRT-1 activation along with PGC-1alpha?

[Anthony_Loera]

The withdrawal is worse than with some Adaptogens that actually DO NOT nourish the glandular system but exhaust the hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenals, it seems on an organ/system level Resveratrol did the same. (The HPT, HPA axis, liver and pancreas correspond to energy metabolism at the cellular level) Its corresponding effects on enzymes and genes tells me that it revs up and stimulates oxidative phosphorylation in the mitochondria, but it inhibits several key energetic catalysts. I just think that it can wear out someone metabolism and wouldn't suggest it to people with metabolic issues, at least not at such high doses. If it was an endogenous compound, I doubt there would be such withdrawal. At large doses like 500mg it can create a state of dependency of the organism and then G-d knows how to recuperate from that.

My system is weird I admit, because of a probably hereditary glucose transport issue (hypoglycemia, reactive). Point being the fact that NADH, NAD or Niacin shouldnt be taken with Resveratrol makes one think. NADH is Coenzyme 1 the body's main energy cofactor for the production of ATP. Resveratrol binds Niacin, NAD, NADH. What about the fact that Resveratrol competes with Ubiquinol at complex III? These are very important endogenous bio-energetic co-enzymes and someone needs to look into this deeper.

You are making alot of assumptions here... specially with 500mg, what do your doctor's say? It appears that with a history of chronic fatigue, reactive hypoglycemia (carb intolerance) cancer and successful chemotherapy treatment... there might be something else at hand here. You say your system is weird, but are not sure why. It makes me think there is something here that you may not know is going on, I suggest going to the doc instead of guessing it's something you ate.

In contrast to this, I have taken 2000mg a day since Oct 2006, and find no issues.
A

[maxwatt]

I quote the Journal of Biological Chemistry - Mechanism of Human SIRT-1 Activation by Resveratrol:

'Of all the NAD+-like
metabolites and salvage pathway intermediates analyzed for regulatory activities on Sir2
enzymes, only nicotinamide displayed a level of inhibition that was consistent with a
physiological role (37). Nicotinamide is the most potent inhibitor of Sir2 enzymes to
date (38-40), and was shown to inhibit Sir2-dependent lifespan extension (41). NADH
was previously shown to be a competitive inhibitor of NAD+ in vitro (42), however, the
high mM binding constant for NADH indicates that cellular NADH levels are unlikely to
regulate Sir2 activity under most physiological conditions (37)."

Does this mean taking NADH should not interfere with Resveratrol SIRT-1 activation along with PGC-1alpha?

There was a paper last year quoted earlier in this interminable thread, to the effect that the determinant of longevity is the NAD to NADH ration. Taking NADH could be expected to reduce this ratio if it has any effect at all, and this would be counter-productive.

[vitaminboss]

The fact of the matter here is that you couldn't find a better lab rat example to test Resv than myself. CFS is known to be a sub-clinical metabolic disorder, primarily focused on mitochondrial dysfunction. Its a chicken & egg example. Mito's starve, leads to neurological/glandular, cardiovascular, immune and muscular impairment. Once the brain and glands starve of energy for a while, the hypothalamus goes haywire sending the entire system off homeostasis affecting system wide metabolism and ultimately gene expression... Step away from cancer, which then kicked in, followed by CHEMO which threw the cherry on the cake as far as DNA damage.. ANYWAY this isnt a CFS forum.

Back to resveratrol:

This can probably be a great drug candidate for CFS therapy (patent pending for this use), and perhaps post chemotherapy DNA repair and chemoprevention. As far as NADH not having benefit, thats a pretty bad assumption. I've read the latest papers and studies published on NADH supplementation and even cancer therapy. Flooding the body with more ATP precursors can only do a great job at preventing cancers. Not to mention NADH has the highest redox potential acting as a better and longer lasting antioxidant than Ascorbic Acid (probably the strongest anti-oxidant out there). Not to mention supplies Hydrogen which is the essential biological energy catalyst and recycler. As far as resveratrol, its a class act metabolic manipulator. Scariest part is its BROAD encompassing effects. It rewires the entire metabolism. My only concern is how well is the body capable to cope with bringing itself back to a proper set point after discontinuing use of this substance?? Can getting off after long term use potential CAUSE CANCER?? Should some people wean off slowly? Due to a drastic drop in energy production, and dozens of other possibilities this is plausible .. Someone needs to look into it possibly being taken with other Mitochondrial cofactors to make sure it doesn't over-expend any resources that are perhaps DEFICIENT in certain pathological or pre-pathological states. Your either in proper metabolism or pathology or if your in between these 2, your on the way to one of them at all times my friends.. Thats called aging and life..

Doctors? Are you serious? !st of all my doctors are puzzled, and I don't expect much from these morons. They aren;t educated enough to even be close to understand such syndromes and substances like resveratrol. I communicate with professors and doctors in Europe and Russia. I have colleagues in Russia that have developed a natural substance that makes RESV look like a joke.. But thats a seperate story. RESV is a single molecule which STIMULATES and instructs proper metabolism. The problem is that if their are metabolic deficiencies, this could prove to be disastrous at one point or another. Especially claiming that bad diets would be ok with RESV use. The Russian development is a naturally fermented high metabolite concentrate that is almost identical to the structure of human cell membranes, vital coenzymes and metabolites, polyphenolics, polysacharrides, glycans, other than that also possess a unique low molecular weight poly-peptide that is the main active "conductor" for the entire matrix of constituents. It intiates its actions first on the meso-diencephalic structures of the brain, stabilizing neursecretory functions, stabilizing neuromodulators, cell membranes, neurotraffic, cell to cell communication, proper DNA replication, increasing apoptosis in defective cells while increasing cell regeneration in healthy cells. Possesses a direct and indirect anti-viral component. This substance is classified as a system compound and a Psycho-Neuro-Endocrine-Immune Corrector. It cured me of CFS, but unfortunately cancer was already in the picture when I was on it, and YET it completely restored bioenergetic levels to NORMAL even with a cancer! I felt better than I felt in years.. But post chemo its a different picture. Keep in mind, RESV doesn't promote regenerative capacity, it actually does the OPPOSITE!! Are you all aware that it BLOCKS MOST GROWTH FACTORS??? IT SLOWS DOWN WOUND HEALING!! In essence RESV hits the PAUSE BUTTON ON YOUR BODY!! IT attempts to place your body in suspended animation.. WE HAVE NO IDEA OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS..

Edited by vitaminboss, 16 June 2008 - 04:21 PM.

[Mind]

Keep in mind, RESV doesn't promote regenerative capacity, it actually does the OPPOSITE!! Are you all aware that it BLOCKS MOST GROWTH FACTORS??? IT SLOWS DOWN WOUND HEALING!! In essence RESV hits the PAUSE BUTTON ON YOUR BODY!! IT attempts to place your body in suspended animation.. WE HAVE NO IDEA OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS.

Hmmm. This is an interesting statement from the perspective of how and if resv acts like a CR mimetic. CR is similar in that it puts your body in a protective state, almost like being in suspended animation.

[vitaminboss]

Keep in mind, RESV doesn't promote regenerative capacity, it actually does the OPPOSITE!! Are you all aware that it BLOCKS MOST GROWTH FACTORS??? IT SLOWS DOWN WOUND HEALING!! In essence RESV hits the PAUSE BUTTON ON YOUR BODY!! IT attempts to place your body in suspended animation.. WE HAVE NO IDEA OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS.

Hmmm. This is an interesting statement from the perspective of how and if resv acts like a CR mimetic. CR is similar in that it puts your body in a protective state, almost like being in suspended animation.

Correct!! The ONLY difference is that during calorie restriction and/or starvation, GH (Growth Hormone) secretion increases, however with ResV it has shown to inhibit and decrease GH secretion (as well as its active growth factors IGF-1 & 2). GH is needed for recovery and protein synthesis. RESV haults all forms of regenerative ability. THis isn't something to be thrilled about. Obviously this is the case since it down-regulates p53.. We're hoping it facilitates senescence in ONLY healthy cells, but nobody knows the deeper implications of getting on and off of RESV often. European scientists have mentioned that RESV improves the stress response and turning the body's cells into that of an athlete (your body is fooled to think its in tip top phsyiological shape). THis is how people who developed diabetes from sedentary lifestyle may benefit from the "effects" of RESV. It LIES to your cells and literally hijacks your entire energy metabolism. Anyone can counter this argument??

Resveratrol Improves Mitochondrial Function and Protects against Metabolic Disease by Activating SIRT1 and PGC-1alpha.

Cell. 2006 Dec 15;127(6):1109-22

Authors: Lagouge M, Argmann C, Gerhart-Hines Z, Meziane H, Lerin C, Daussin F, Messadeq N, Milne J, Lambert P, Elliott P, Geny B, Laakso M, Puigserver P, Auwerx J

Diminished mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation and aerobic capacity are associated with reduced longevity. We tested whether resveratrol (RSV), which is known to extend lifespan, impacts mitochondrial function and metabolic homeostasis. Treatment of mice with RSV significantly increased their aerobic capacity, as evidenced by their increased running time and consumption of oxygen in muscle fibers. RSV's effects were associated with an induction of genes for oxidative phosphorylation and mitochondrial biogenesis and were largely explained by an RSV-mediated decrease in PGC-1alpha acetylation and an increase in PGC-1alpha activity. This mechanism is consistent with RSV being a known activator of the protein deacetylase, SIRT1, and by the lack of effect of RSV in SIRT1(-/-) MEFs. Importantly, RSV treatment protected mice against diet-induced-obesity and insulin resistance. These pharmacological effects of RSV combined with the association of three Sirt1 SNPs and energy homeostasis in Finnish subjects implicates SIRT1 as a key regulator of energy and metabolic homeostasis.

PMID: 17112576 [PubMed - in process]

[maxwatt]

Keep in mind, RESV doesn't promote regenerative capacity, it actually does the OPPOSITE!! Are you all aware that it BLOCKS MOST GROWTH FACTORS??? IT SLOWS DOWN WOUND HEALING!! In essence RESV hits the PAUSE BUTTON ON YOUR BODY!! IT attempts to place your body in suspended animation.. WE HAVE NO IDEA OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS.

Hmmm. This is an interesting statement from the perspective of how and if resv acts like a CR mimetic. CR is similar in that it puts your body in a protective state, almost like being in suspended animation.

Correct!! The ONLY difference is that during calorie restriction and/or starvation, GH (Growth Hormone) secretion increases, however with ResV it has shown to inhibit and decrease GH secretion (as well as its active growth factors IGF-1 & 2). GH is needed for recovery and protein synthesis. RESV haults all forms of regenerative ability. THis isn't something to be thrilled about. Obviously this is the case since it down-regulates p53.. We're hoping it facilitates senescence in ONLY healthy cells, but nobody knows the deeper implications of getting on and off of RESV often. European scientists have mentioned that RESV improves the stress response and turning the body's cells into that of an athlete (your body is fooled to think its in tip top phsyiological shape). THis is how people who developed diabetes from sedentary lifestyle may benefit from the "effects" of RESV. It LIES to your cells and literally hijacks your entire energy metabolism. Anyone can counter this argument??

...{snip}...

We just had a study cited in another two threads in this form "A Low Dose of Dietary Resveratrol Partially Mimics Caloric Restriction and Retards Aging Parameters in Mice" which found that Caloric Restriction reduced IGF-1 levels, and resveratrol did not.

[vitaminboss]

Keep in mind, RESV doesn't promote regenerative capacity, it actually does the OPPOSITE!! Are you all aware that it BLOCKS MOST GROWTH FACTORS??? IT SLOWS DOWN WOUND HEALING!! In essence RESV hits the PAUSE BUTTON ON YOUR BODY!! IT attempts to place your body in suspended animation.. WE HAVE NO IDEA OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS.

Hmmm. This is an interesting statement from the perspective of how and if resv acts like a CR mimetic. CR is similar in that it puts your body in a protective state, almost like being in suspended animation.

Correct!! The ONLY difference is that during calorie restriction and/or starvation, GH (Growth Hormone) secretion increases, however with ResV it has shown to inhibit and decrease GH secretion (as well as its active growth factors IGF-1 & 2). GH is needed for recovery and protein synthesis. RESV haults all forms of regenerative ability. THis isn't something to be thrilled about. Obviously this is the case since it down-regulates p53.. We're hoping it facilitates senescence in ONLY healthy cells, but nobody knows the deeper implications of getting on and off of RESV often. European scientists have mentioned that RESV improves the stress response and turning the body's cells into that of an athlete (your body is fooled to think its in tip top phsyiological shape). THis is how people who developed diabetes from sedentary lifestyle may benefit from the "effects" of RESV. It LIES to your cells and literally hijacks your entire energy metabolism. Anyone can counter this argument??

...{snip}...

We just had a study cited in another two threads in this form "A Low Dose of Dietary Resveratrol Partially Mimics Caloric Restriction and Retards Aging Parameters in Mice" which found that Caloric Restriction reduced IGF-1 levels, and resveratrol did not.

This information contradicts the study which was published in Nature in 2006 in which it was stated:

"Here we show that resveratrol shifts the physiology of middle-aged mice on a high-calorie diet towards that of mice on a standard diet and significantly increases their survival. Resveratrol produces changes associated with longer lifespan, including increased insulin sensitivity, reduced insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-I) levels, increased AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) and peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma coactivator 1alpha (PGC-1alpha) activity, increased mitochondrial number, and improved motor function. Parametric analysis of gene set enrichment revealed that resveratrol opposed the effects of the high-calorie diet in 144 out of 153 significantly altered pathways.

This latest study is highly contradictive to the one i posted regarding its effetcs on SIRT-1 and PGC-1a. is this because they used a "low Dose"? Whos to say what dose is "low" or not? Are we playing Russian roulette here?

Have you read the published study: "Suppression of angiogenesis, tumor growth,
and wound healing by resveratrol" It reduces EGF, VEGF angiogenesis growth factors that are needed to heal wounds. This alone tells me that RESV IS NOT SELECTIVE to suppressing only pre-neoplastic (pre-cancerous) formation, but it affects normal tissues as well. We should keep in mind that tumros are wounds that could not heal correctly, and donot differentiate terminally, they are of embryonic origin with an aberant inefficient anaerobic metabolism that renders them immortal. That being said, I would also assume that RESV suppresses several other growth factors other than the above mentioned in angiogenesis. Assuming it did reduce IGF-1 levels as per the 2006 study, that would directly impact GH secretion because of the feedback loop to the Hypothalamus. It has been cited in several studies that RESVERATROL ACTS AS AN ENDOCRINE DISRUPTER.

My ultimate point is, that RESV attempts to put the body on "PAUSE", slowing all processes down. Lets use the following analogy in aging: Cells are like VHS Video tapes, the more copies you make, eventually each consecutive copy's quality diminishes due to loss of information (inaccurate DNA replication), a true anti-aging substance would enhance proper DNA replication, INCREASE REGENERATIVE CAPACITY in healthy cells and INCREASE THE RATE OF APOPTOSIS IN DEFECTIVE CELLS, sort of like making REPLICAS of DIGITAL media. Now you dont have copies but replicas.. RESV basically attempts to top the entire duplication process and put EVERYTHING ON HOLD. Our bodies don't live in capsules, we encounter wear and tear DAILY!! What about healing?? WE NEED GROWTH FACTORS TO HEAL!!! We need APOPTOTIC mechanisms to work in an enhances and accelerated way..... THink about this..

Edited by vitaminboss, 16 June 2008 - 09:32 PM.

[kenj]

Vitaminboss, I am puzzled still by resveratrol, or at least it seems to really have powerful effects on the body, IME: when I first took a higher dose it had some kind of immunosuppressive effect, making me more susceptible to colds. I have also experienced it interfering with healing of an injured rib from falling off my bike (took 4 months to go away, - can't say the resveratrol was to blame for me being clumsy at riding a bike though...). And also, I have posted about it causing tendon pains from running. What else: seems to slow any weight loss from mild CR.

Edited by kenj, 16 June 2008 - 09:36 PM.

[vitaminboss]

Sorry for the above rant. ANYWAY, who would advise one 500mg 99% per day or two 50% caps daily?? Is it me or did anyone feel better blood circulation with a 50% product? 99% doesn't give that increased blood flow feeling. Any advise will be appreciated! btw I use Biotivia products. They seem to work. I'm not sure If I'm planning to get back in RESV, but if i continue to feel like crap, i just may try it again...

[Anthony_Loera]

Doctors? Are you serious? !st of all my doctors are puzzled, and I don't expect much from these morons. They aren;t educated enough to even be close to understand such syndromes and substances like resveratrol. I communicate with professors and doctors in Europe and Russia. I have colleagues in Russia that have developed a natural substance that makes RESV look like a joke.. But thats a seperate story. RESV is a single molecule which STIMULATES and instructs proper metabolism. The problem is that if their are metabolic deficiencies, this could prove to be disastrous at one point or another. Especially claiming that bad diets would be ok with RESV use. The Russian development is a naturally fermented high metabolite concentrate that is almost identical to the structure of human cell membranes, vital coenzymes and metabolites, polyphenolics, polysacharrides, glycans, other than that also possess a unique low molecular weight poly-peptide that is the main active "conductor" for the entire matrix of constituents. It intiates its actions first on the meso-diencephalic structures of the brain, stabilizing neursecretory functions, stabilizing neuromodulators, cell membranes, neurotraffic, cell to cell communication, proper DNA replication, increasing apoptosis in defective cells while increasing cell regeneration in healthy cells. Possesses a direct and indirect anti-viral component. This substance is classified as a system compound and a Psycho-Neuro-Endocrine-Immune Corrector. It cured me of CFS, but unfortunately cancer was already in the picture when I was on it, and YET it completely restored bioenergetic levels to NORMAL even with a cancer! I felt better than I felt in years.. But post chemo its a different picture.

Ok,

So you started with:

1- You have/had CFS and Cancer of which CFS was treated by a russian drug, and cured.
2- Cancer was treated by Chemo, while you still were on the russian drug.
3- After the Cancer was gone, the russian drug failed to restore you energy levels to normal (although you believe they did restore your energy back to normal while on Chemo).
4- You looked for something else to help restore your energy, and tried resveratrol.
(Do you think CFS was back at this point and not fully cured?)

5- You felt great for a while with resveratrol (would you say less than 6 weeks?)
6- You felt yourself feeling bad, and dropped resveratrol.
7- You then felt horrible after dropping resveratrol.

Do I have this timeline correct so far?

Also, I am concerned that you don't want to talk to doctors at this point, I find it doesn't make sense if you are concerned about your health and are experiencing new symptoms.

A

[vitaminboss]

Doctors? Are you serious? !st of all my doctors are puzzled, and I don't expect much from these morons. They aren;t educated enough to even be close to understand such syndromes and substances like resveratrol. I communicate with professors and doctors in Europe and Russia. I have colleagues in Russia that have developed a natural substance that makes RESV look like a joke.. But thats a seperate story. RESV is a single molecule which STIMULATES and instructs proper metabolism. The problem is that if their are metabolic deficiencies, this could prove to be disastrous at one point or another. Especially claiming that bad diets would be ok with RESV use. The Russian development is a naturally fermented high metabolite concentrate that is almost identical to the structure of human cell membranes, vital coenzymes and metabolites, polyphenolics, polysacharrides, glycans, other than that also possess a unique low molecular weight poly-peptide that is the main active "conductor" for the entire matrix of constituents. It intiates its actions first on the meso-diencephalic structures of the brain, stabilizing neursecretory functions, stabilizing neuromodulators, cell membranes, neurotraffic, cell to cell communication, proper DNA replication, increasing apoptosis in defective cells while increasing cell regeneration in healthy cells. Possesses a direct and indirect anti-viral component. This substance is classified as a system compound and a Psycho-Neuro-Endocrine-Immune Corrector. It cured me of CFS, but unfortunately cancer was already in the picture when I was on it, and YET it completely restored bioenergetic levels to NORMAL even with a cancer! I felt better than I felt in years.. But post chemo its a different picture.

Ok,

So you started with:

1- You have/had CFS and Cancer of which CFS was treated by a russian drug, and cured.
2- Cancer was treated by Chemo, while you still were on the russian drug.
3- After the Cancer was gone, the russian drug failed to restore you energy levels to normal (although you believe they did restore your energy back to normal while on Chemo).
4- You looked for something else to help restore your energy, and tried resveratrol.
(Do you think CFS was back at this point and not fully cured?)

5- You felt great for a while with resveratrol (would you say less than 6 weeks?)
6- You felt yourself feeling bad, and dropped resveratrol.
7- You then felt horrible after dropping resveratrol.

Do I have this timeline correct so far?

Also, I am concerned that you don't want to talk to doctors at this point, I find it doesn't make sense if you are concerned about your health and are experiencing new symptoms.

A

Anthony Timeline is accurate. Yes the CFS returned full blast after chemo. Resveratrol did an amazing job gradually pulling me together, I mean I wouldn't say I was perfect, but manageable. I was able to more or less be a normal person except that stamina wasn't 100% yet. When I DID push myself over the limit, along with unintentional calorie restriction, thats when I crashed. Started feeling tired and my heart which all the while RESV made arrythmia proof, began to skip beats in a SCAREY WAY. I mean it felt as it the heart just stopped. I was getting hypoglycemic ontop. So I decided that it was stimulating an exhausted body and got off.. BAD MOVE!. After I get off, the feeling reminded me of the days I used to be into pumping iron and was a muscular guy taking Creatine. After getting off Creatine, there were days several years ago where I felt i was run over by a truck. Tired, achey, but I used to come out of that within a day (Was in remission from CFS back in 2001-2003). So this feeling felt like that but WORSE.. achy muscles, horrible fatigue, sensitivity to carbs was insane. I think my pancreas was flooding my body with insulin to the point where adrenals were pouring out glucocorticoids in attempt to raise blood sugar after so much insulin release. Basically Endocrine chaos, most probably due to poor glucose transport into the cell and metabolic dysfunction.

CFS is puzzling to doctors because of all the organs seem to be affected, especially those that use the most energy such as the heart, brain, adrenals, pancreas. Its a spiral, they don't know if these organs are the sources of the problem or the victim. My opinion is that they are victims of a cellular metabolic dysfunction. I was tested a few years ago at Ronal Hoffman's clinic in the city (NYC), seemed that my CoQ10 levels were substantially low. I just remembered this recently. Would it seem ok to take Resveratrol WITH Ubiquinol?? Any biochemists on this forum that can help answer this?

The reason i can't get back to a baseline is in my opinion due to the fact that RESV revved up my mitochondria to such a level PREMATURELY, and perhaps the system isn't ready for that yet, or doesn't have the resources to compensate energetically. Now, i was taking RESV thinking it could potentially CURE the problem since it activates DNA repair mechanisms and mitochondrial biogenesis especially after chemotherapy does alot of DNA damage.

The Russian preparation seems to at its therapeutic dose, makes me feel like crap. THey claim its because its accelerating apoptosis in defective cells and after chemo, their are plenty of them. (2 dosages, one that fixes and corrects at the submolecular, proteomic and nano level and another that searches out problems, maintains and stabilizes the neuro-hormonal system).

PS: I monitor myself monthly as far as cancer goes. It was testicular by the way, look at lance armstrong and others..

Edited by vitaminboss, 17 June 2008 - 03:25 PM.

[maxwatt]

Doctors? Are you serious? !st of all my doctors are puzzled, and I don't expect much from these morons. They aren;t educated enough to even be close to understand such syndromes and substances like resveratrol. I communicate with professors and doctors in Europe and Russia. I have colleagues in Russia that have developed a natural substance that makes RESV look like a joke.. But thats a seperate story. RESV is a single molecule which STIMULATES and instructs proper metabolism. The problem is that if their are metabolic deficiencies, this could prove to be disastrous at one point or another. Especially claiming that bad diets would be ok with RESV use. The Russian development is a naturally fermented high metabolite concentrate that is almost identical to the structure of human cell membranes, vital coenzymes and metabolites, polyphenolics, polysacharrides, glycans, other than that also possess a unique low molecular weight poly-peptide that is the main active "conductor" for the entire matrix of constituents. It intiates its actions first on the meso-diencephalic structures of the brain, stabilizing neursecretory functions, stabilizing neuromodulators, cell membranes, neurotraffic, cell to cell communication, proper DNA replication, increasing apoptosis in defective cells while increasing cell regeneration in healthy cells. Possesses a direct and indirect anti-viral component. This substance is classified as a system compound and a Psycho-Neuro-Endocrine-Immune Corrector. It cured me of CFS, but unfortunately cancer was already in the picture when I was on it, and YET it completely restored bioenergetic levels to NORMAL even with a cancer! I felt better than I felt in years.. But post chemo its a different picture.

Ok,

So you started with:

1- You have/had CFS and Cancer of which CFS was treated by a russian drug, and cured.
2- Cancer was treated by Chemo, while you still were on the russian drug.
3- After the Cancer was gone, the russian drug failed to restore you energy levels to normal (although you believe they did restore your energy back to normal while on Chemo).
4- You looked for something else to help restore your energy, and tried resveratrol.
(Do you think CFS was back at this point and not fully cured?)

5- You felt great for a while with resveratrol (would you say less than 6 weeks?)
6- You felt yourself feeling bad, and dropped resveratrol.
7- You then felt horrible after dropping resveratrol.

Do I have this timeline correct so far?

Also, I am concerned that you don't want to talk to doctors at this point, I find it doesn't make sense if you are concerned about your health and are experiencing new symptoms.

A

Anthony Timeline is accurate. Yes the CFS returned full blast after chemo. Resveratrol did an amazing job gradually pulling me together, I mean I wouldn't say I was perfect, but manageable. I was able to more or less be a normal person except that stamina wasn't 100% yet. When I DID push myself over the limit, along with unintentional calorie restriction, thats when I crashed. Started feeling tired and my heart which all the while RESV made arrythmia proof, began to skip beats in a SCAREY WAY. I mean it felt as it the heart just stopped. I was getting hypoglycemic ontop. So I decided that it was stimulating an exhausted body and got off.. BAD MOVE!. After I get off, the feeling reminded me of the days I used to be into pumping iron and was a muscular guy taking Creatine. After getting off Creatine, there were days several years ago where I felt i was run over by a truck. Tired, achey, but I used to come out of that within a day (Was in remission from CFS back in 2001-2003). So this feeling felt like that but WORSE.. achy muscles, horrible fatigue, sensitivity to carbs was insane. I think my pancreas was flooding my body with insulin to the point where adrenals were pouring out glucocorticoids in attempt to raise blood sugar after so much insulin release. Basically Endocrine chaos, most probably due to poor glucose transport into the cell and metabolic dysfunction.

CFS is puzzling to doctors because of all the organs seem to be affected, especially those that use the most energy such as the heart, brain, adrenals, pancreas. Its a spiral, they don't know if these organs are the sources of the problem or the victim. My opinion is that they are victims of a cellular metabolic dysfunction. I was tested a few years ago at Ronal Hoffman's clinic in the city (NYC), seemed that my CoQ10 levels were substantially low. I just remembered this recently. Would it seem ok to take Resveratrol WITH Ubiquinol?? Any biochemists on this forum that can help answer this?

The reason i can't get back to a baseline is in my opinion due to the fact that RESV revved up my mitochondria to such a level PREMATURELY, and perhaps the system isn't ready for that yet, or doesn't have the resources to compensate energetically. Now, i was taking RESV thinking it could potentially CURE the problem since it activates DNA repair mechanisms and mitochondrial biogenesis especially after chemotherapy does alot of DNA damage.

The Russian preparation seems to at its therapeutic dose, makes me feel like crap. THey claim its because its accelerating apoptosis in defective cells and after chemo, their are plenty of them. (2 dosages, one that fixes and corrects at the submolecular, proteomic and nano level and another that searches out problems, maintains and stabilizes the neuro-hormonal system).

PS: I monitor myself monthly as far as cancer goes. It was testicular by the way, look at lance armstrong and others..

I've taken CoQ10 with resveratrol, and see no reason why there should be a conflict. Although I am not a biochemist, I felt fine with or without Q10.

In your case, there seem to be far too many variables to tell what might be going on.

[vitaminboss]

Doctors? Are you serious? !st of all my doctors are puzzled, and I don't expect much from these morons. They aren;t educated enough to even be close to understand such syndromes and substances like resveratrol. I communicate with professors and doctors in Europe and Russia. I have colleagues in Russia that have developed a natural substance that makes RESV look like a joke.. But thats a seperate story. RESV is a single molecule which STIMULATES and instructs proper metabolism. The problem is that if their are metabolic deficiencies, this could prove to be disastrous at one point or another. Especially claiming that bad diets would be ok with RESV use. The Russian development is a naturally fermented high metabolite concentrate that is almost identical to the structure of human cell membranes, vital coenzymes and metabolites, polyphenolics, polysacharrides, glycans, other than that also possess a unique low molecular weight poly-peptide that is the main active "conductor" for the entire matrix of constituents. It intiates its actions first on the meso-diencephalic structures of the brain, stabilizing neursecretory functions, stabilizing neuromodulators, cell membranes, neurotraffic, cell to cell communication, proper DNA replication, increasing apoptosis in defective cells while increasing cell regeneration in healthy cells. Possesses a direct and indirect anti-viral component. This substance is classified as a system compound and a Psycho-Neuro-Endocrine-Immune Corrector. It cured me of CFS, but unfortunately cancer was already in the picture when I was on it, and YET it completely restored bioenergetic levels to NORMAL even with a cancer! I felt better than I felt in years.. But post chemo its a different picture.

Ok,

So you started with:

1- You have/had CFS and Cancer of which CFS was treated by a russian drug, and cured.
2- Cancer was treated by Chemo, while you still were on the russian drug.
3- After the Cancer was gone, the russian drug failed to restore you energy levels to normal (although you believe they did restore your energy back to normal while on Chemo).
4- You looked for something else to help restore your energy, and tried resveratrol.
(Do you think CFS was back at this point and not fully cured?)

5- You felt great for a while with resveratrol (would you say less than 6 weeks?)
6- You felt yourself feeling bad, and dropped resveratrol.
7- You then felt horrible after dropping resveratrol.

Do I have this timeline correct so far?

Also, I am concerned that you don't want to talk to doctors at this point, I find it doesn't make sense if you are concerned about your health and are experiencing new symptoms.

A

Anthony Timeline is accurate. Yes the CFS returned full blast after chemo. Resveratrol did an amazing job gradually pulling me together, I mean I wouldn't say I was perfect, but manageable. I was able to more or less be a normal person except that stamina wasn't 100% yet. When I DID push myself over the limit, along with unintentional calorie restriction, thats when I crashed. Started feeling tired and my heart which all the while RESV made arrythmia proof, began to skip beats in a SCAREY WAY. I mean it felt as it the heart just stopped. I was getting hypoglycemic ontop. So I decided that it was stimulating an exhausted body and got off.. BAD MOVE!. After I get off, the feeling reminded me of the days I used to be into pumping iron and was a muscular guy taking Creatine. After getting off Creatine, there were days several years ago where I felt i was run over by a truck. Tired, achey, but I used to come out of that within a day (Was in remission from CFS back in 2001-2003). So this feeling felt like that but WORSE.. achy muscles, horrible fatigue, sensitivity to carbs was insane. I think my pancreas was flooding my body with insulin to the point where adrenals were pouring out glucocorticoids in attempt to raise blood sugar after so much insulin release. Basically Endocrine chaos, most probably due to poor glucose transport into the cell and metabolic dysfunction.

CFS is puzzling to doctors because of all the organs seem to be affected, especially those that use the most energy such as the heart, brain, adrenals, pancreas. Its a spiral, they don't know if these organs are the sources of the problem or the victim. My opinion is that they are victims of a cellular metabolic dysfunction. I was tested a few years ago at Ronal Hoffman's clinic in the city (NYC), seemed that my CoQ10 levels were substantially low. I just remembered this recently. Would it seem ok to take Resveratrol WITH Ubiquinol?? Any biochemists on this forum that can help answer this?

The reason i can't get back to a baseline is in my opinion due to the fact that RESV revved up my mitochondria to such a level PREMATURELY, and perhaps the system isn't ready for that yet, or doesn't have the resources to compensate energetically. Now, i was taking RESV thinking it could potentially CURE the problem since it activates DNA repair mechanisms and mitochondrial biogenesis especially after chemotherapy does alot of DNA damage.

The Russian preparation seems to at its therapeutic dose, makes me feel like crap. THey claim its because its accelerating apoptosis in defective cells and after chemo, their are plenty of them. (2 dosages, one that fixes and corrects at the submolecular, proteomic and nano level and another that searches out problems, maintains and stabilizes the neuro-hormonal system).

PS: I monitor myself monthly as far as cancer goes. It was testicular by the way, look at lance armstrong and others..

I've taken CoQ10 with resveratrol, and see no reason why there should be a conflict. Although I am not a biochemist, I felt fine with or without Q10.

In your case, there seem to be far too many variables to tell what might be going on.

Maxwatt, actually nothing is confusing here. Read this link about what PGC-1alpha is responsible for and keep in mind that there is plenty of substantiated work proving that Resveratrol activates PGC-1a (Resveratrol Improves Mitochondrial Function and Protects against Metabolic Disease by Activating SIRT1 and PGC-1alpha. - Cell. 2006 Dec 15;127(6):1109-22)

http://advan.physiol...t/full/30/4/145

I probably have some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction which caused my fatigue and reactive hypoglycemia, psycho-neurological, muscular, and cardiac rhythm disturbances (would explain possible inclination to developing cancer according to warburgs theory, a cell which lacks proper respiratory metabolism will become cancerous) CANCERS are a degenerative phase of a disease initiated by poor oxidative cell respiration/or energy metabolism, primarily involving mitochondria. RESV seemed to have managed all of the above symptoms but then I believe I exhausted nutrients, resources and many other bioenergetic catalysts when physically exerting myself. In panic, I dropped resveratrol instead of staying on it and replenishing my system with nutrients and coenzymes, which led to a worse withdrawal reaction upon discontinuing use.

Edited by vitaminboss, 18 June 2008 - 03:10 AM.

[kenj]

>>> I probably have some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction which caused my fatigue and reactive hypoglycemia <<<

Perhaps part of the exhaustion is very low norepinephrine.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Oct;59(4):790-3.

Low plasma norepinephrine responses to acute hypoglycemia in children with isolated growth hormone deficiency.
Voorhess ML, MacGillivray MH.

Norepinephrine (NE) is a neurotransmitter of the sympathetic nervous system which is important in GH secretion. It also is a counterregulatory hormone which is released in response to insulin hypoglycemia. We measured the plasma NE, epinephrine, GH, and cortisol responses to insulin-induced hypoglycemia in 29 short healthy children. The 8 patients (5 males and 3 females) which had isolated GH deficiency had no plasma NE response to insulin hypoglycemia, whereas mean plasma NE increased 2-fold in the 21 GH-sufficient children. Plasma epinephrine concentrations increased in both groups, but were lower in the GH-deficient patients. While these findings do not permit us to determine whether the reduced plasma catecholamine responses to acute hypoglycemia are the cause, the consequence, or unrelated to the GH deficiency, we speculate that there is a relationship between the NE and GH deficiencies.

PMID: 6384256 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Anthony_Loera]

I probably have some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction which caused my fatigue and reactive hypoglycemia, psycho-neurological, muscular, and cardiac rhythm disturbances

You stated you didn't get enough calories as well, would you have been fasting?

Again, as Max points out, there are to many factors that you are attributing to 500mg of resveratrol because of how much gets absorbed. I also believe you are assuming too many things because you believe 500mg is a high dose.

One last item... "The Placebo Period" which I believe usually ends at about 4-6 weeks, is the period where folks are taking res and feeling great. I believe this maybe more of a placebo effect as resveratrol is not a quick stimulant. While I agree it is an interesting period, I don't expect folks to come to an honest conclusion as to what resveratrol maybe doing for them until after 6 weeks.

In my last post I asked if the timeline was correct, and you said yes. I then realized where you were in this "Placebo period" (as I like to call it). It appears you were not through it, and possibly attribute too many things to Resveratrol at this time.

Please consider going to see your doctor again.

A

[vitaminboss]

I probably have some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction which caused my fatigue and reactive hypoglycemia, psycho-neurological, muscular, and cardiac rhythm disturbances

You stated you didn't get enough calories as well, would you have been fasting?

Again, as Max points out, there are to many factors that you are attributing to 500mg of resveratrol because of how much gets absorbed. I also believe you are assuming too many things because you believe 500mg is a high dose.

One last item... "The Placebo Period" which I believe usually ends at about 4-6 weeks, is the period where folks are taking res and feeling great. I believe this maybe more of a placebo effect as resveratrol is not a quick stimulant. While I agree it is an interesting period, I don't expect folks to come to an honest conclusion as to what resveratrol maybe doing for them until after 6 weeks.

In my last post I asked if the timeline was correct, and you said yes. I then realized where you were in this "Placebo period" (as I like to call it). It appears you were not through it, and possibly attribute too many things to Resveratrol at this time.

Please consider going to see your doctor again.

A

Anthony, "placebo period"???? Are you joking?? Buddy this isn't bee pollen, spirulina, or grapeseed extract, this is a molecule thats found in tiny quantities in red wine and never used by itself alone in chinese medicine in such large doses as an isolated molecule. Relatively speaking, 500mg is an ENORMOUS DOSE for a compound that has such broad effects on various systems. Point being, sensitive individuals with obvious metabolic issues are the best candidates to test compounds like RESV. Just because your body is reslient enough not to feel anything from it, doesn't mean its not working! My mother and friends have taken it and another friend still takes it and doesn't feel much. As a matter of fact, I didn't have much hope in it when first taking it. The effects were gradual yet profoundly marked. I wasn't sure at first if it was totally attributed to RESV. When i took it for shorter durations, no withdrawal was noted because its effects seem to build up over time gradually. 6-8 weeks of taking, i reached a peak of its effects. To be honest, I would NOT BE SURPRISED if those who are on it for a long period of time, don't develope congestive heart failure soon after getting off of it as a rebound affect on the heart muscle... The body does not like to to be decieved or lied to.. It developes tolerance to ANYTHING.. Point being RESV is far from a "nutritional" supplement, this is at worst a non-toxic multi-systemic DRUG.. Our body needs to be trained to be what it was meant to be; a properly functioning AUTONOMOUS biological system.

[krillin]

Maxwatt, actually nothing is confusing here. Read this link about what PGC-1alpha is responsible for and keep in mind that there is plenty of substantiated work proving that Resveratrol activates PGC-1a (Resveratrol Improves Mitochondrial Function and Protects against Metabolic Disease by Activating SIRT1 and PGC-1alpha. - Cell. 2006 Dec 15;127(6):1109-22)

http://advan.physiol...t/full/30/4/145

It requires a large dose to activate SIRT1. 500 mg is closer to the dose that replicates some of CR's effects on gene expression through non-SIRT1 pathways. See Maxwatt's link above. (Unless your conjugation capacity has been wrecked by cancer/chemo. Does that happen?)

[vitaminboss]

>>> I probably have some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction which caused my fatigue and reactive hypoglycemia <<<

Perhaps part of the exhaustion is very low norepinephrine.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Oct;59(4):790-3.

Low plasma norepinephrine responses to acute hypoglycemia in children with isolated growth hormone deficiency.
Voorhess ML, MacGillivray MH.

Norepinephrine (NE) is a neurotransmitter of the sympathetic nervous system which is important in GH secretion. It also is a counterregulatory hormone which is released in response to insulin hypoglycemia. We measured the plasma NE, epinephrine, GH, and cortisol responses to insulin-induced hypoglycemia in 29 short healthy children. The 8 patients (5 males and 3 females) which had isolated GH deficiency had no plasma NE response to insulin hypoglycemia, whereas mean plasma NE increased 2-fold in the 21 GH-sufficient children. Plasma epinephrine concentrations increased in both groups, but were lower in the GH-deficient patients. While these findings do not permit us to determine whether the reduced plasma catecholamine responses to acute hypoglycemia are the cause, the consequence, or unrelated to the GH deficiency, we speculate that there is a relationship between the NE and GH deficiencies.

PMID: 6384256 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Kenj, good thinking, but that doesn't make complete sense either. At first, I was suspecting the same, since RESV has NA/5-HT uptake and MAO inhibitory activity. That also would explain how I it replaced my normal daily doses of 4.5 grams of ascorbic acid (Ascorbic acid facilitates NE production). Question is, after getting off RESV, ascorbic acid only exacerbated the condition. Its interesting that the above study correlates GH with NE. Its been known that CFS sufferers have insufficient GH output after exertions and during sleep, aside from that NE production is low in the adrenal medulla of these patients. . Once again, chicken and the egg scenario. I still do believe that RESV is responsible for the lack of carb intolerance I felt while taking it. I believe its due to its inhibiting effect on insulin secretion. Also, the fact that my heart became strong as a rock while on it, without any arrythmias regardless of stressor PROVES that it was indeed RESV's effect on PGC-1alpha activation that was responsible. That would probably include other muscles as well. Basically, RESV makes your body think its an athlete thats worked out for months and has normal glycemic control. Its the excersize pill everyone has been searching for..

[vitaminboss]

Maxwatt, actually nothing is confusing here. Read this link about what PGC-1alpha is responsible for and keep in mind that there is plenty of substantiated work proving that Resveratrol activates PGC-1a (Resveratrol Improves Mitochondrial Function and Protects against Metabolic Disease by Activating SIRT1 and PGC-1alpha. - Cell. 2006 Dec 15;127(6):1109-22)

http://advan.physiol...t/full/30/4/145

It requires a large dose to activate SIRT1. 500 mg is closer to the dose that replicates some of CR's effects on gene expression through non-SIRT1 pathways. See Maxwatt's link above. (Unless your conjugation capacity has been wrecked by cancer/chemo. Does that happen?)

This is an interesting theory.. I don't think my conjugation is slow due to chemo, but its been slow for years, probably because of the lack of physical activity and VERY SLOW metabolism in general. My liver tends to always be in a state of slow functioning.. Lab tests have normalized several months ago. Could it be that RESV accumulated and compounded in my system to produce such effects at that small dose? I've had history of over-reacting to small doses of drugs quicker than others would suspect.. I also took the capsule with a phosphatidylcholine softgel which i noticed enhanced its effect. I am also underweight, could that be a factor?

[krillin]

This is an interesting theory.. I don't think my conjugation is slow due to chemo, but its been slow for years, probably because of the lack of physical activity and VERY SLOW metabolism in general. My liver tends to always be in a state of slow functioning.. Lab tests have normalized several months ago. Could it be that RESV accumulated and compounded in my system to produce such effects at that small dose? I've had history of over-reacting to small doses of drugs quicker than others would suspect.. I also took the capsule with a phosphatidylcholine softgel which i noticed enhanced its effect. I am also underweight, could that be a factor?

Take a look at Figure 3. Plasma resveratrol is dwarfed by its conjugates in healthy people. Interfere with conjugation and you could get a vastly enhanced response.

Some people use lecithin to increase absorption, but they have to exert a lot of effort to get it mixed before consumption.

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony, "placebo period"???? Are you joking?? Buddy this isn't bee pollen, spirulina, or grapeseed extract, this is a molecule thats found in tiny quantities in red wine and never used by itself alone in chinese medicine in such large doses as an isolated molecule. Relatively speaking, 500mg is an ENORMOUS DOSE for a compound that has such broad effects on various systems.

Take a look at Figure 3. Plasma resveratrol is dwarfed by its conjugates in healthy people. Interfere with conjugation and you could get a vastly enhanced response.

Some people use lecithin to increase absorption, but they have to exert a lot of effort to get it mixed before consumption.

vitaminboss,

I have seen normal folks that don't have issues go through this period. We do have many customers, and do not rely on what one person says.

As for 500mg, Kenj points out (by linking to the human escalation study), not much gets into the human system at all unless you increase dose, or absorption. Of course if you are the exception because you have a screwed up system due to CFS, Chemo damage, or some other unknown issue (because you refuse to see doctors anymore). Then I ask you not to take resveratrol at all until you figure out what is happening.

As a matter of fact, I would ask you not to take anything until you see if your liver is working properly. How you are going to find this out, without a doctor... I have no idea. But that is my suggestion. It amazes me how you can feel things happening to you on a cellular level, while others sometimes do not realize when they have just passed gas. It leads me to think there is a mental element to this that hasn't been explored. Most folks on a long term regimen will feel "good" when first starting the regimen, then as time goes by this feeling usually dwindles which leads to older habits kicking in... then they may miss taking their vitamins one day, and start "skipping" them... until they fully stop taking them.

Resveratrol is not a stimulant, if you believe it will make you feel great from day one, and that is your purpose for taking it... then I will ask you to stop taking it. Most honest descriptions of benefits I have heard, come after 6 weeks. If that is too long a time period for you (or anyone reading this post) then it may that some personal habits need to be extended to encompass the longer regimen needed to see if Resveratrol will help provide you good health benefits.

A