374 replies to this topic

[tintinet]

I mix together organic roasted cocoa powder with the raw in a 1:1 ratio. Tastes decent to me, FWIW.

[DukeNukem]

Tintinet, that's exactly what I do too, then at a heaping spoonful to my daily bowl of morning oatmeal (which I add about 10 other powders to, too). I also eat about 50 grams daily of a 70%+ dark chocolate bar.

[stephen_b]

I put in an order from Amazon for Organic Raw Chocolate Powder. I'm thinking of just mixing it with water and was wondering about the dosing. Is there any consensus about how much to take?

Stephen

[trance]

I've taken a hearty teaspoon of the organic chocolate nibs and added it to my coffee beans in the grinder each morning, and it makes a deliciously deep flavored brew.

Trance

[malbecman]

Here is another new study showing the effects of cocoa powder (26 gr/day) on increased HDL and decreased LDL oxidation. [thumb]

Continuous intake of polyphenolic compounds containing cocoa powder reduces LDL oxidative susceptibility and has beneficial effects on plasma HDL-cholesterol concentrations in humans.

* Baba S,
* Osakabe N,
* Kato Y,
* Natsume M,
* Yasuda A,
* Kido T,
* Fukuda K,
* Muto Y,
* Kondo K.

Food and Health R&D Laboratories, Meiji Seika Kaisha Ltd, Saitama, Japan.

BACKGROUND: Cocoa powder is rich in polyphenols such as catechins and procyanidins and has been shown in various models to inhibit LDL oxidation and atherogenesis. OBJECTIVE: We examined whether long-term intake of cocoa powder alters plasma lipid profiles in normocholesterolemic and mildly hypercholesterolemic human subjects. DESIGN: Twenty-five subjects were randomly assigned to ingest either 12 g sugar/d (control group) or 26 g cocoa powder and 12 g sugar/d (cocoa group) for 12 wk. Blood samples were collected before the study and 12 wk after intake of the test drinks. Plasma lipids, LDL oxidative susceptibility, and urinary oxidative stress markers were measured. RESULTS: At 12 wk, we measured a 9% prolongation from baseline levels in the lag time of LDL oxidation in the cocoa group. This prolongation in the cocoa group was significantly greater than the reduction measured in the control group (-13%). A significantly greater increase in plasma HDL cholesterol (24%) was observed in the cocoa group than in the control group (5%). A negative correlation was observed between plasma concentrations of HDL cholesterol and oxidized LDL. At 12 wk, there was a 24% reduction in dityrosine from baseline concentrations in the cocoa group. This reduction in the cocoa group was significantly greater than the reduction in the control group (-1%). CONCLUSION: It is possible that increases in HDL-cholesterol concentrations may contribute to the suppression of LDL oxidation and that polyphenolic substances derived from cocoa powder may contribute to an elevation in HDL cholesterol.

[Athanasios]

26 g cocoa powder and 12 g sugar/d (cocoa group) for 12 wk...A significantly greater increase in plasma HDL cholesterol (24%) was observed in the cocoa group than in the control group (5%).

Interesting, I wonder if there would be greater improvement without the sugar.

from earlier post in this thread:

suggesting that sugar interferes with the beneficial actions of flavonoids

[doug123]

A researcher friend of mine sent me a couple of links that some of you might find useful:

1. natural NON-Alkalized cocoa powders have the highest levels of polyphenolic compounds

J Agric Food Chem. 2006 May 31;54(11):4057-61.

Procyanidin and catechin contents and antioxidant capacity of cocoa and chocolate products. Gu L, House SE, Wu X, Ou B, Prior RL.

Arkansas Children's Nutrition Center, ARS-USDA, and Department of Physiology and Biophysics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, Arkansas 72202, USA.

Cocoa and chocolate products from major brands were analyzed blind for total antioxidant capacity (AOC) (lipophilic and hydrophilic ORAC(FL)), catechins, and procyanidins (monomer through polymers). Accuracy of analyses was ascertained by comparing analyses on a NIST standard reference chocolate with NIST certified values. Procyanidin (PC) content was related to the nonfat cocoa solid (NFCS) content. The natural cocoa powders (average 87% of NFCS) contained the highest levels of AOC (826 +/- 103 micromol of TE/g) and PCs (40.8 +/- 8.3 mg/g). Alkalized cocoa (Dutched powders, average 80% NFCS) contained lower AOC (402 +/- 6 micromol of TE /g) and PCs (8.9 +/- 2.7 mg/g). Unsweetened chocolates or chocolate liquor (50% NFCS) contained 496 +/- 40 micromol of TE /g of AOC and 22.3 +/- 2.9 mg/g of PCs. Milk chocolates, which contain the least amount of NFCS (7.1%), had the lowest concentrations of AOC (80 +/- 10 micromol of TE /g) and PCs (2.7 +/- 0.5 mg/g). One serving of cocoa (5 g) or chocolate (15 or 40 g, depending upon the type of chocolate) provides 2000-9100 micromol of TE of AOC and 45-517 mg of PCs, amounts that exceed the amount in a serving of the majority of foods consumed in America. The monomers through trimers, which are thought to be directly bioavailable, contributed 30% of the total PCs in chocolates. Hydrophilic antioxidant capacity contributed >90% of AOC in all products. The correlation coefficient between AOC and PCs in chocolates was 0.92, suggesting that PCs are the dominant antioxidants in cocoa and chocolates. These results indicate that NFCS is correlated with AOC and PC in cocoa and chocolate products. Alkalizing dramatically decreased both the procyanidin content and antioxidant capacity, although not to the same extent.

PMID: 16719534 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2. Continuous intake of polyphenolic compounds containing cocoa powder reduces LDL oxidative susceptibility and has beneficial effects on plasma HDL-cholesterol concentrations in humans.

A significantly greater increase in plasma HDL cholesterol (24%) was observed in the cocoa group than in the control group (5%).

Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Mar;85(3):709-17.

Continuous intake of polyphenolic compounds containing cocoa powder reduces LDL oxidative susceptibility and has beneficial effects on plasma HDL-cholesterol concentrations in humans.

Baba S, Osakabe N, Kato Y, Natsume M, Yasuda A, Kido T, Fukuda K, Muto Y, Kondo K.
Food and Health R&D Laboratories, Meiji Seika Kaisha Ltd, Saitama, Japan.

BACKGROUND: Cocoa powder is rich in polyphenols such as catechins and procyanidins and has been shown in various models to inhibit LDL oxidation and atherogenesis. OBJECTIVE: We examined whether long-term intake of cocoa powder alters plasma lipid profiles in normocholesterolemic and mildly hypercholesterolemic human subjects. DESIGN: Twenty-five subjects were randomly assigned to ingest either 12 g sugar/d (control group) or 26 g cocoa powder and 12 g sugar/d (cocoa group) for 12 wk. Blood samples were collected before the study and 12 wk after intake of the test drinks. Plasma lipids, LDL oxidative susceptibility, and urinary oxidative stress markers were measured. RESULTS: At 12 wk, we measured a 9% prolongation from baseline levels in the lag time of LDL oxidation in the cocoa group. This prolongation in the cocoa group was significantly greater than the reduction measured in the control group (-13%). A significantly greater increase in plasma HDL cholesterol (24%) was observed in the cocoa group than in the control group (5%). A negative correlation was observed between plasma concentrations of HDL cholesterol and oxidized LDL. At 12 wk, there was a 24% reduction in dityrosine from baseline concentrations in the cocoa group. This reduction in the cocoa group was significantly greater than the reduction in the control group (-1%). CONCLUSION: It is possible that increases in HDL-cholesterol concentrations may contribute to the suppression of LDL oxidation and that polyphenolic substances derived from cocoa powder may contribute to an elevation in HDL cholesterol.

PMID: 17344491 [PubMed - in process]

Peace.

[luv2increase]

I'm thinking about adding both cocoa and green tea extract to my regimen.


For the green tea extract, how does this look?

I figure it'll cost me $18 for 3 months for this EGCG extract version at 400mg (200mg X 2) of egcg a day.

http://www.bulknutri...roducts_id=2486





For the cocoa, how does this look?

I figure it'll cost me $30 for 3 months for this non-alkalized, organic, & raw cocoa powder at 21.5g a day.

http://www.bulknutri...roducts_id=2562

[health_nutty]

They both look very good. Now is a solid brand. I didn't realize they offered cocoa powder. I'll have to look into it.

[stephen_b]

I've heard that chocolate is a stimulant. Is that really true? I'm thinking of cacao powder here without any added sugar.

Stephen

[Athanasios]

I've heard that chocolate is a stimulant. Is that really true? I'm thinking of cacao powder here without any added sugar.

Stephen

Yep, for me it is quite powerful. It gives me lots of energy without jitters.

[lucid]

Anyone think that there is a problem with taking the caffeine from the cocoa? Speeding up the metabolism seems to be a problem with aging...

[luv2increase]

Isn't the caffeine content of cocoa very minimal?

[lucid]

Cocoa derived from the seeds of the Theobroma cocoa plant (or cocoa beans) is used in making chocolate milk, hot cocoa, and various confections. It contains small amounts of caffeine, plus large amounts of theobromine, another alkaloid in the xanthine family. Theobromine is classified as a mild central nervous system stimulant and has physiological effects similar to those of caffeine, but much weaker. The average cup of hot cocoa contains about 10 mg of caffeine but over 200 mg of theobromine.

Hmm guess you are right.

[tintinet]

Isn't the caffeine content of cocoa very minimal?

Ya, relative to coffee, tea:

"Chocolate mg caffeine
baking choc, unsweetened, Bakers--1 oz(28 g) 25
german sweet, Bakers -- 1 oz (28 g) 8
semi-sweet, Bakers -- 1 oz (28 g) 13

Choc chips
Bakers -- 1/4 cup (43 g) 13
german sweet, Bakers -- 1/4 cup (43 g) 15

Chocolate bar, Cadbury -- 1 oz (28 g) 15
Chocolate milk 8oz 8

Desserts:
Jello Pudding Pops, Choc (47 g) 2
Choc mousse from Jell-O mix (95 g) 6
Jello choc fudge mousse (86 g) 12

Beverages
3 heaping teaspoons of choc powder mix 8
2 tablespoons choc syrup 5
1 envelope hot cocoa mix 5

Dietary formulas
ensure, plus, choc, Ross Labs -- 8 oz (259 g) 10
Cadbury Milk Chocolate Bar"


...but cocoa does contain theobromine, a related methylated xanthine:


"Cocoa derived from the seeds of the Theobroma cocoa plant (or cocoa beans) is used in making chocolate milk, hot cocoa, and various confections. It contains small amounts of caffeine, plus large amounts of theobromine, another alkaloid in the xanthine family. Theobromine is classified as a mild central nervous system stimulant and has physiological effects similar to those of caffeine, but much weaker. The average cup of hot cocoa contains about 10 mg of caffeine but over 200 mg of theobromine. A 3 1/2 ounce chocolate bar contains approximately 12 mg of caffeine and 155 mg theobromine."

And, it's not clear increasing metabolism leads to accelerated , necessarily.

[stephen_b]

I'm starting to get attached to the Nature's First Law cacao powder. I put a few heaping spoonfuls in a mug and add water from my tea water heater -- no sugar needed, and it tastes really good. I can see how the Kuna people in Panama might get accustomed to drinking it throughout the day.

I took some last night at about 7pm and slept fairly well, so I don't think that the stimulant effect will keep you up at night if you don't normally have problems getting to sleep. I did notice more dreams than usual.

Stephen

[steelheader]

Stephen, I use the Navitas raw cocoa powder the same way, just wetting the powder and mixing it with hot water. It makes a really nice hot drink, at least as nice as coffee to my buds. I've always accepted that notion that hot cocoa had to be made with sugar and milk. So wrong!

[malbecman]

I've been planning on using this and prepping it the same way, ~20grams right into hot water. Or, it also goes right into a cup of coffee with some stirring if you want a serious mocha.

4lbs at 20gr/day is about a 3 month supply for $30. Not bad!!! [thumb]
You just need a big spot in the fridge or freezer for it.....


http://www.amazon.co...0209649-9287370



Bottoms up!!!


edited:

You are correct, Steelheader, its actually only 1lb for $29.95, my mistake. So that would only be ~23 day supply at $30. Still, not to0 bad. The 2.5lb package would be ~56 days for $60 so closer to $1/day.

Sorry about that, too much typing going on today....

Edited by malbecman, 05 April 2007 - 05:41 PM.

[steelheader]

Malbecman,
Is that price correct? 4lbs for $30? That sounds too good to be true. They aren't clear on the amazon site just what the size of the jar is, saying the shipping weight is 4 lbs., but the enlarged image of the jar looks like it says 16 oz to me. And they are listing a 2.5 lb. package of the same powder for $59.95.

[stephen_b]

A few recent studies. The rate of death for cardiovascular disease and cancer was less by factors of about 9 and 15.5 (!), respectively.

Hypertension, the Kuna, and the epidemiology of flavanols (J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 2006;47 Suppl 2:S103-9; discussion 119-21)

The low blood pressure of island-dwelling Kuna does not seem to be related to a low salt diet. Among dietary factors that varied among migrating Kuna, the notably higher intake of flavanol-rich cocoa is a potential candidate for further study.

Vascular action of cocoa flavanols in humans: the roots of the story (J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 2006;47 Suppl 2:S99-102; discussion S119-21)

The list of candidate conditions that might be influenced is impressive, ranging from atherosclerosis and diabetes mellitus to hypertension and preeclampsia, to vascular dementias and end-stage renal disease. The next decade will be interesting.

Does flavanol intake influence mortality from nitric oxide-dependent processes? Ischemic heart disease, stroke, diabetes mellitus, and cancer in Panama. Int J Med Sci. 2007 Jan 27;4(1):53-8

Substantial data suggest that flavonoid-rich food could help prevent cardiovascular disease and cancer. Cocoa is the richest source of flavonoids, but current processing reduces the content substantially. The Kuna living in the San Blas drink a flavanol-rich cocoa as their main beverage, contributing more than 900 mg/day and thus probably have the most flavonoid-rich diet of any population. We used diagnosis on death certificates to compare cause-specific death rates from year 2000 to 2004 in mainland and the San Blas islands where only Kuna live. Our hypothesis was that if the high flavanoid intake and consequent nitric oxide system activation were important the result would be a reduction in the frequency of ischemic heart disease, stroke, diabetes mellitus, and cancer--all nitric oxide sensitive processes. There were 77,375 deaths in mainland Panama and 558 deaths in the San Blas. In mainland Panama, as anticipated, cardiovascular disease was the leading cause of death (83.4 +/- 0.70 age adjusted deaths/100,000) and cancer was second (68.4 +/- 1.6). In contrast, the rate of CVD and cancer among island-dwelling Kuna was much lower (9.2 +/- 3.1) and (4.4 +/- 4.4) respectively. Similarly deaths due to diabetes mellitus were much more common in the mainland (24.1 +/- 0.74) than in the San Blas (6.6 +/- 1.94). This comparatively lower risk among Kuna in the San Blas from the most common causes of morbidity and mortality in much of the world, possibly reflects a very high flavanol intake and sustained nitric oxide synthesis activation. However, there are many risk factors and an observational study cannot provide definitive evidence.

Of course, I don't know whether these islanders, after leaving their island, went on to live in unhealthy environments, but the mortality reduction is amazing however. By contrast, the US cancer death rate was about 166/100,000 in 2000.

Stephen

[malbecman]

Ok, time for a quick price comparison. (esp. after Steelheader caught my earlier mistake).

Amazon has the 2.5lbs organic raw cocoa powder from Nature's 1st law for $59.95
or 1 lb for $29.95.

You can also get 8oz Sunfood Nutrition Organic Nibs from Amazon for $10.

I can buy Nestle's Cocoa (not dutched, 100% cocoa powder) for about $3/8 oz from my local grocer.

I took a walk at lunch and I can get bulk Ambrosia Natural Cocoa powder from my local food Co-op for $6.60/lb. I talked to the bulk foods manager, this is actually an ADM food product, arguably the largest food processor in the world. This is their most "natural"/unprocessed cocoa product but not organic.

It seems to me that you are paying a large premium for the Nature's 1st law powder or Sunfood nibs. I realize these may have more phenolics but I can intake ~5X the amount for the same price (not sure I want to take in that much cocoa, however).

Anyways, just wanted to point these prices out and give y'all something to think about....

Malbec

[luv2increase]

You can get 3lb of Now Organic non-alkalized raw cocoa powder for $29.94.

[tintinet]

I get NOW Foods Organic cocoa powder, but, AFAIK, it ain't raw....

Didn't see raw cocoa powder on the NOW Foods website, either, but I may not be looking in the right place. Where can you get the NOW Organic raw cocoa powder?

Thanks!

[luv2increase]

I get NOW Foods Organic cocoa powder, but, AFAIK, it ain't raw....

Didn't see raw cocoa powder on the NOW Foods website, either, but I may not be looking in the right place. Where can you get the NOW Organic raw cocoa powder?

Thanks!

I guess it may not be raw. You are right. I just e-mailed them asking if it is raw or not. That is a disappointment. If it isn't raw, I will have to look elsewhere.

[sUper GeNius]

I get NOW Foods Organic cocoa powder, but, AFAIK, it ain't raw....

Didn't see raw cocoa powder on the NOW Foods website, either, but I may not be looking in the right place. Where can you get the NOW Organic raw cocoa powder?

Thanks!

I guess it may not be raw. You are right. I just e-mailed them asking if it is raw or not. That is a disappointment. If it isn't raw, I will have to look elsewhere.

This is what I recently bought. Raw, mixes well with hot water. I love it. Tastes great.

http://www.amazon.co...3670196-0551307

I must have bought too much, as it seems that Amazon does not have any left. I'm sure you could find it elsewhere.

[durandal]

You guys are trying to get antioxidants out of a finely ground powder? That's a lot of surface area to get oxidized.

[luv2increase]

You guys are trying to get antioxidants out of a finely ground powder?  That's a lot of surface area to get oxidized.

Care to elaborate on your statement? I am a little confused.

[Shepard]

Care to elaborate on your statement?  I am a little confused.

Similar to the old "don't put anything into the blender or you'll negate the antioxidant effect" logic that came about a while back.

[luv2increase]

Is this a belief that it will break up the chemical makeup of the antioxidant rendering it useless?

[Shepard]

The blending thing was just a way to jack up the sales of juicers, from anything that I saw.