374 replies to this topic

[edward]

Interesting. I wonder if NOW would give us a lab report on their Cocoa? I just emailed them requesting a lab report.... So we shall see.

[edward]

WOW I got a report. 2.6 ppm (parts per million) which NOW Foods says is very low, I'm sure it's lower than less conscious companies like Hershey's... Still it doesn't seem that low to me.The government supposedly was talking about limiting Lead levels to 1 ppm for Raw Cocoa and .1 ppm for final product "candy" but apparently that was never approved. Still considering the following most lead statistics I found related to children:

From the FDA:
Average Lead Levels
------------------------EARLY 1970s ------ CURRENT
Infant formula ............ 0.10 ppm ................ 0.01 ppm
Infant juices ............... 0.30 ppm ................ 0.011 ppm
Infant foods ................ 0.15 ppm ................ 0.013 ppm
Evaporated milk ......... 0.52 ppm ................ 0.01 ppm

From an Article on Food Safety:

"California considers candies with lead levels in excess of 0.1 ppm adulterated" .......... http://www.emaxhealt...m/75/12078.html


2.6 ppm for a food item seems pretty darn high.....





*Edit* Note: I use a lot of NOW products and consider them to be great and I'm sure that if there is lower lead Cocoa powder to be had then they would have it.... thus I am lead (no pun intended) to believe that most Cocoa powders are much worse than this certified organic product from this reputable company. I'm not sure if I want to be ingesting at minimum 2.6 ppm lead by the tablespoon...

Edited by edward, 17 May 2007 - 08:43 PM.

[davie1a]

What do you think about the copper levels in cocoa ?

After reading this

http://www.acu-cell.com/choc.html

I am not sure anymore about long term benefits.

Excerpt :

Again - in isolation, polyphenols work well in a test-tube environment, but cocoa also happens to be
very high in Copper, which unfortunately inhibits the action of some flavonoids, particularly hesperidin,
which is an essential flavanone (see also Acu-Cell Nutrition "Bioflavonoids"). This in turn can lead to a
greater incidence of vascular degeneration such as varicose veins, hemorrhoids, aneurysms, bruising,
heart disease, and stroke.
While low copper can be implicated with weak and fragile blood vessel as well, high copper levels
are much more common in many parts of the world, with nearly 90% of patients tested exhibiting a
chemical profile that - in addition to their own unique chemistry - contained an underlying pattern that
reflects the impact of copper overload on various opposing nutrients, which include sulfur, chromium,
molybdenum, nickel, Vitamin C, hesperidin, and others.

The additional consumption of high copper sources such as chocolate and cocoa products, coffee,
cola drinks (also shellfish, liver, soybeans, and many nuts and seeds...), not only aggravates many high
copper-related medical conditions, but it is responsible for contributing to, or creating new ones.

[health_nutty]

Acu-Cell website is trying sell you something. The real world results contradict their conclusion:

"Hollenberg has spent years studying the benefits of cocoa drinking on the Kuna people in Panama. He found that the risk of 4 of the 5 most common killer diseases: stroke, heart failure, cancer and diabetes, is reduced to less then 10% in the Kuna. They can drink up to 40 cups of cocoa a week. Natural cocoa has high levels of epicatechin."

[krillin]

That Acu-Cell site is hilarious! If I drank, I'm sure I could come up with a drinking game for it.

Each electric nerve potential tested varies with the intracellular level of the nutrient it corresponds to and changes as the matching chemical is increased or decreased through supplementation, drugs, diet, and various disease processes.

For instance, phosphorus and zinc have both left-sided cell receptors, so if either level is low in ratio to calcium, calcification would only take place on the left side of the body, whereas the cell receptors of manganese or magnesium are right-sided, as a result, any calcification would develop on the right side of the body only.

He does have a point, though, here. I've never had empty stomach problems, but taking a handful of pills after a meal gives me heartburn.

To avoid stomach problems and promote better tolerance, supplements should always be taken earlier, or in the middle of a larger meal.  When taken on an empty stomach or after a meal, there is a greater risk of some tablets causing irritation, or eventually erosion of the esophageal sphincter, resulting in Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD).

[davie1a]

Thanks guys.

I was just came across it on a google search. I knew the site was trying to sell but thought maybe there was some truth in their statements.

The Kuna people findings are the reason I drink cocoa every day. [lol]

[malbecman]

Thanks guys.

I was just came across it on a google search. I knew the site was trying to sell but thought maybe there was some truth in their statements.

The Kuna people findings are the reason I drink cocoa every day. [lol]

plus this quote by Health_nutty:

"Hollenberg has spent years studying the benefits of cocoa drinking on the Kuna people in Panama. He found that the risk of 4 of the 5 most common killer diseases: stroke, heart failure, cancer and diabetes, is reduced to less then 10% in the Kuna."



So I am curious what the Kuna people do die from and what is their average life expectancy compared to Panamanian and Kuna expats........

[stephen_b]

So I am curious what the Kuna people do die from and what is their average life expectancy compared to Panamanian and Kuna expats........

Paper cuts, every last one of them.

[lol]

From this abstract from "Vascular action of cocoa flavanols in humans: the roots of the story" by Hollenberg]:

On migration to Panama City, blood pressure rises with age, and the frequency of essential hypertension matches urban levels elsewhere.

Stephen

[wydell]

All organic means is that they grow the product without pesticides and artificial fertilizers and free from artificial ingredients. There still could be lead in the soil, the air and the water around where the crops grow.

Case in point, Dagoba brand organic chocalate had a massive recall due to lead last year. Their nibs were not part of the recall though.

[Brainbox]

Their nibs were not part of the recall though.

Key seems to be the amount of shell matter in raw cocoa products! (and level of processing in processed products maybe due to mixing shells with cocoa contents of beans?).

[inawe]

This thread started with a reference to the benefits of Epicatechins in cocoa. Let me come back to this since there is a new paper indicating that Epicatechins can benefit not only Panamenians but also mice. Van Praag et al.,"Plant-Derived Flavanol (-)Epicatechin Enhances Angiogenesis and Retention of Spacial Memory in Mice", The Journal of Neuroscience 27(22), May 30, 2007.
From the abstract it seems they were feeding the mice Epicatechins and not cocoa or tea extract. Does anybody know of Epicatechin sources?

[health_nutty]

This thread started with a reference to the benefits of Epicatechins in cocoa. Let me come back to this since there is a new paper indicating that Epicatechins can benefit not only Panamenians but also mice. Van Praag et al.,"Plant-Derived Flavanol (-)Epicatechin Enhances Angiogenesis and Retention of Spacial Memory in Mice", The Journal of Neuroscience 27(22), May 30, 2007.
From the abstract it seems they were feeding the mice Epicatechins and not cocoa or tea extract. Does anybody know of Epicatechin sources?

It's rumored that cocoa powder is an excellent source of epicatechin

[malbecman]

I'm sitting at the airport, waiting for my plane and this article caught my eye. More good cocoa news at normal intake levels and in humans!!



J Nutr. 2007 Jun;137(6):1436-1441. Plasma LDL and HDL Cholesterol and Oxidized LDL Concentrations Are Altered in Normo- and Hypercholesterolemic Humans after Intake of Different Levels of Cocoa Powder. Baba S, Natsume M, Yasuda A, Nakamura Y, Tamura T, Osakabe N, Kanegae M, Kondo K.

Cocoa powder is rich in polyphenols, such as catechins and procyanidins, and has been shown in a variety of subject models to inhibit oxidized LDL and atherogenesis. Our study evaluated plasma LDL cholesterol and oxidized LDL concentrations following the intake of different levels of cocoa powder (13, 19.5, and 26 g/d) in normocholesterolemic and mildly hypercholesterolemic humans. In this comparative, double-blind study, we examined 160 subjects who ingested either cocoa powder containing low-polyphenolic compounds (placebo-cocoa group) or 3 levels of cocoa powder containing high-polyphenolic compounds (13, 19.5, and 26 g/d for low-, middle-, and high-cocoa groups, respectively) for 4 wk. The test powders were consumed as a beverage after the addition of hot water, twice each day. Blood samples were collected at baseline and 4 wk after intake of the test beverages for the measurement of plasma lipids. Plasma oxidized LDL concentrations decreased in the low-, middle-, and high-cocoa groups compared with baseline. A stratified analysis was performed on 131 subjects who had a LDL cholesterol concentrations of >/=3.23 mmol/L at baseline. In these subjects, plasma LDL cholesterol, oxidized LDL, and apo B concentrations decreased, and the plasma HDL cholesterol concentration increased, relative to baseline in the low-, middle-, and high-cocoa groups. The results suggest that polyphenolic substances derived from cocoa powder may contribute to a reduction in LDL cholesterol, an elevation in HDL cholesterol, and the suppression of oxidized LDL.\PMID: 17513403

[lucid]

Yay great news And that is after only 4 weeks. Imagine a life time

Cocoa powder is right at the top of my list as one of the most important sups to take.

[zoolander]

I think you missed the point of Chocomind. It's meant to be a stimulant (Hence caffeine/theobromine) and not just an antioxidant with high ORAC. That's why it's called Chocomind, The Brain Capsule.

[health_nutty]

I think you missed the point of Chocomind. It's meant to be a stimulant (Hence caffeine/theobromine) and not just an antioxidant with high ORAC. That's why it's called Chocomind, The Brain Capsule.

Why not just take cocoa powder in large quantities and get the benefits of both?

[Brainbox]

Lead?

As far as I understand lead is an issue with cocoa. Especially in case you use the raw product that contain shell parts or a processed form like powder. The supplier of the nibs I use was not able to give an estimate on amount of shell matter or a COA that specifies heavy metal content. Based upon the data found in the article that can be found under the link above (I assume you already read it), raw cocoa with a small amount of shell residue seems safe in moderate quantities. I stopped taking it every day.

I think you missed the point of Chocomind. It's meant to be a stimulant (Hence caffeine/theobromine) and not just an antioxidant with high ORAC. That's why it's called Chocomind, The Brain Capsule.

Why not just take cocoa powder in large quantities and get the benefits of both?

[health_nutty]

Very good read on flavanoid content of different kinds of chocolate.

http://www.worldcoco...dants191KB).pdf

[tedsez]

As someone who's trying to cut down on his daily caloric intake, I would appreciate a cocoa-extract supplement that had high levels of epicatechins but left out the fat (and the lead, and possibly the caffeine).

[lucid]

Raw cocoa powder doesn't have a ton of calories. A serving of 28g has 77 calories (45 from fat, and rest from protien). 11g of fiber! 7g of protien. Plus all the flavanoids and stimulants. Unless you are CR'ing I think cocoa powder is the way to go. That said I don't know of any extracts...

[health_nutty]

As someone who's trying to cut down on his daily caloric intake, I would appreciate a cocoa-extract supplement that had high levels of epicatechins but left out the fat (and the lead, and possibly the caffeine).

cocoa powder is virtually fat free. Not sure about the lead though...

[zoolander]

A girl in the lab a few stories up from the lab I'm in made chocolate with higher levels of catechin in it. I think that she's definiately onto something. My partner in crime is currently running HPLC tests on the stuff. I might suggest that she try and synthesize some white chocolate with catechins

[inawe]

Of the different catechins there was some focus recently on
(-)Epicatechin. Interesting effects (at least on mice) were seen.
I already made reference in this thread to a paper. Here is the
abstract:

J Neurosci. 2007 May 30;27(22):5869-78
Plant-derived flavanol (-)epicatechin enhances angiogenesis and retention of spatial memory in mice.van Praag H, Lucero MJ, Yeo GW, Stecker K, Heivand N, Zhao C, Yip E, Afanador M, Schroeter H, Hammerstone J, Gage FH.
Laboratory of Genetics, The Salk Institute for Biological Studies, La Jolla, California 92037, USA.

Diet and exercise have a profound impact on brain function. In particular, natural nutrients found in plants may influence neuronal survival and plasticity. Here, we tested whether consumption of a plant-derived flavanol, (-)epicatechin, enhances cognition in sedentary or wheel-running female C57BL/6 mice. Retention of spatial memory in the water maze was enhanced by ingestion of (-)epicatechin, especially in combination with exercise. Improved spatial memory was associated with increased angiogenesis and neuronal spine density, but not newborn cell survival, in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus. Moreover, microarray analysis showed upregulation of genes associated with learning and downregulation of markers of neurodegeneration in the hippocampus. Together, our data show that ingestion of a single flavanol improves spatial memory retention in adult mammals.

PMID: 17537957 [PubMed - in process]

In another paper it's mentioned that the (-)Epicatechin was obtained
from Sigma. It would be interesting to find more accesible and cheaper
sources.

[malbecman]

In another paper it's mentioned that the (-)Epicatechin was obtained
from Sigma. It would be interesting to find more accesible and cheaper
sources.

I've checked around a bit and not been able to find any good sources. Of course, plenty in cocoa powder and I'm sure there is some in green tea although most people
drink that for the ECGC, that is, the epigallocatechin gallate which is the gallic acid ester of epicatechin. Very similar although likely not the same effects. The 98% green tea supplement from BAC has quite a bit of ECGC although they could not tell me the EC content. I havent had the time to really dig up the EC content in green tea although the EGCG is well characterized......

[krillin]

The 98% green tea supplement from BAC has quite a bit of ECGC although they could not tell me the EC content. I havent had the time to really dig up the EC content in green tea although the EGCG is well characterized......

Here's something that ganeshge posted elsewhere.

Planta Med. 2000 Jun;66(5):444-7.
Oral absorption and bioavailability of tea catechins.
Zhu M, Chen Y, Li RC.
Department of Pharmacy, Chinese University of Hong Kong, Shatin, N.T., Hong Kong.

The absorption characteristics and oral bioavailability of three tea catechins, namely (-)-epicatechin (EC), (-)-epicatechin gallate (ECG), and (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), were assessed in this study. Male Sprague Dawley rats (210-230 g) received either an intravenous (i.v. 50 mg/kg) or oral (5000 mg/kg) dose of decaffeinated catechin-fraction containing EC (5%), EGCG (50%), and ECG (13%). Concentrations of the compounds in plasma, urine, and feces were measured using HPLC. A non-compartmental approach was employed for pharmacokinetic analysis. Results indicated that maximum plasma concentrations for the catechins (15-112 micrograms/ml) were achieved at 2 h post-oral dosing and the apparent volume of distribution (Vd/F) ranged from 30 to 63 l/kg. Absolute bioavailability (F) of EC, EGCG, and ECG was assessed to be 0.39, 0.14, and 0.06, respectively. Estimates of terminal elimination half-life (t1/2, lambda z) of the catechins after oral dosing were 451-479 min and were 1.4-10 fold longer than those observed for the i.v. dosing. The discrepancy in terminal elimination and low rate and extent of absorption indicated the possibility of flip-flop kinetics. Respective urinary recoveries were 0.17-4.72% and 2.11-14.2% after oral and i.v. dosing. In conclusion, the low systemic availability of tea catechins observed could be a result of slow absorption, high first pass effect, and wide tissue distribution.

PMID: 10909265

[trance]

http://www.vpico.com...?article=149866

SAITAMA, Japan—Polyphenols in cocoa powder such as catechins and procyanidins may contribute to a reduction in “bad” low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, an elevation in beneficial high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, and the suppression of oxidized LDL, according to research published in The Journal of Nutrition (137:1436-1441, 2007). A study from Food and Health R&D Laboratories here evaluated plasma LDL cholesterol and oxidized LDL concentrations following the intake of different levels of cocoa powder in normocholesterolemic and mildly hypercholesterolemic humans. The comparative, double-blind study examined 160 subjects who ingested either cocoa powder containing low-polyphenolic compounds (placebo-cocoa group) or 3 levels of cocoa powder containing high-polyphenolic compounds (13, 19.5 and 26 g/d for low-, middle- and high-cocoa groups, respectively) for four weeks. Blood samples were collectedat baseline and four weeks after intake of test beverages forplasma lipid measurement.

Plasma oxidized LDL concentrationsdecreased in the low-, middle- and high-cocoa groups comparedwith baseline. A stratified analysis performed on 131 subjects with LDL cholesterol concentrations of 3.23 mmol/L or higher at baseline showed decreases in plasma LDL cholesterol, oxidized LDL, and apo B concentrations, while plasma HDL cholesterol concentration increased relative to baseline in the low-, middle- and high-cocoa groups.

[malbecman]

This is the paper I quoted about 14 posts ago.....

http://www.vpico.com...?article=149866

SAITAMA, Japan—Polyphenols in cocoa powder such as catechins and procyanidins may contribute to a reduction in “bad” low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, an elevation in beneficial high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, and the suppression of oxidized LDL, according to research published in The Journal of Nutrition (137:1436-1441, 2007). A study from Food and Health R&D Laboratories here evaluated plasma LDL cholesterol and oxidized LDL concentrations following the intake of different levels of cocoa powder in normocholesterolemic and mildly hypercholesterolemic humans. The comparative, double-blind study examined 160 subjects who ingested either cocoa powder containing low-polyphenolic compounds (placebo-cocoa group) or 3 levels of cocoa powder containing high-polyphenolic compounds (13, 19.5 and 26 g/d for low-, middle- and high-cocoa groups, respectively) for four weeks. Blood samples were collectedat baseline and four weeks after intake of test beverages forplasma lipid measurement.

Plasma oxidized LDL concentrationsdecreased in the low-, middle- and high-cocoa groups comparedwith baseline. A stratified analysis performed on 131 subjects with LDL cholesterol concentrations of 3.23 mmol/L or higher at baseline showed decreases in plasma LDL cholesterol, oxidized LDL, and apo B concentrations, while plasma HDL cholesterol concentration increased relative to baseline in the low-, middle- and high-cocoa groups.

[inawe]

This group in Saitama has been very active in publishing papers lauding the health effects of chocolate. After a closer look, I would say one should take their chocolate with a grain of salt. They work for Meiji Seika, a chocolate manufacturer.
In the following paper they report a HDL increase of 24% (WOW!):

Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Mar;85(3):709-17
Continuous intake of polyphenolic compounds containing cocoa powder reduces LDL oxidative susceptibility and has beneficial effects on plasma HDL-cholesterol concentrations in humans.Baba S, Osakabe N, Kato Y, Natsume M, Yasuda A, Kido T, Fukuda K, Muto Y, Kondo K.
Food and Health R&D Laboratories, Meiji Seika Kaisha Ltd, Saitama, Japan. seigo_baba@meiji.co.jp

BACKGROUND: Cocoa powder is rich in polyphenols such as catechins and procyanidins and has been shown in various models to inhibit LDL oxidation and atherogenesis. OBJECTIVE: We examined whether long-term intake of cocoa powder alters plasma lipid profiles in normocholesterolemic and mildly hypercholesterolemic human subjects. DESIGN: Twenty-five subjects were randomly assigned to ingest either 12 g sugar/d (control group) or 26 g cocoa powder and 12 g sugar/d (cocoa group) for 12 wk. Blood samples were collected before the study and 12 wk after intake of the test drinks. Plasma lipids, LDL oxidative susceptibility, and urinary oxidative stress markers were measured. RESULTS: At 12 wk, we measured a 9% prolongation from baseline levels in the lag time of LDL oxidation in the cocoa group. This prolongation in the cocoa group was significantly greater than the reduction measured in the control group (-13%). A significantly greater increase in plasma HDL cholesterol (24%) was observed in the cocoa group than in the control group (5%). A negative correlation was observed between plasma concentrations of HDL cholesterol and oxidized LDL. At 12 wk, there was a 24% reduction in dityrosine from baseline concentrations in the cocoa group. This reduction in the cocoa group was significantly greater than the reduction in the control group (-1%). CONCLUSION: It is possible that increases in HDL-cholesterol concentrations may contribute to the suppression of LDL oxidation and that polyphenolic substances derived from cocoa powder may contribute to an elevation in HDL cholesterol.

PMID: 17344491 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

[malbecman]

Now I really can't wait for my next blood work-up!!!! [thumb]

In the following paper they report a HDL increase of 24% (WOW!):

[edward]

As brainbox mentioned, lead, is stilll a big issue, I too stopped using cocoa on a regular basis after I got the lab results on lead from a couple of reputable companies with high quality organic product. It's just not worth it, the long-term negative effects of lead far outweigh any short-term or long-term benefits of cocoa especially when there are other sources of catechins and related polyphenols.