766 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Added T-Rez and Resveratrol 1000 which is really a 50% purity product using two capsules, and only provide 500mg and not 1000mg of resveratrol. It also does not state "trans-resveratrol" on the label.

TamPogo,
If it doesn't state "Trans-resveratrol" on the label, you are not guaranteed to get that according to FDA labeling rules. Trans-resveratrol has been used in most studies, so it is the preferred resveratrol to look for in the labels. The Trans-resveratrol molecule remains the same, whether it comes from a grape or polygonum. However when you take a low purity trans-resveratrol product, the "impurities" of the grape or polygonum come into play, and may cause stomach issues or a rash if you are allergic.

Trans-Resveratrol high purity capsules contain a white powder, while low purity trans-resveratrol capsules contain a dark or brown colored powder. Folks usually prefer the high purity capsules, or powder because of these potential issues.

I hope this helps

A

[Dagon]

Could you also add the following 50% Resveratrol supplement to the list Anthony. It's the Life Smart Labs "Juice Extreem":
http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Also available on Amazon a little cheaper:
http://www.amazon.co...x...6007&sr=8-1

[niner]

If it doesn't state "Trans-resveratrol" on the label, you are not guaranteed to get that according to FDA labeling rules. Trans-resveratrol has been used in most studies, so it is the preferred resveratrol to look for in the labels.

But if it does say "Trans-resveratrol", you are still not guaranteed to get that. These are supplements, not drugs, and we rely on the ethics and reputation of the manufacturer, and the level of testing that they employ, for the quality of the supplement. I think that worrying about whether it says "trans" or not is confusing the issue. There is no natural source for pure Cis-resveratrol. The cis isomer is typically present as a minor component of trans resveratrol, as a result of UV exposure. ALL resveratrol is (mostly) trans, and the only question is does it contain 0.1% cis or 1% cis? It's not like you are getting a bottle of pure cis resveratrol that isn't going to work, just because it doesn't say "trans".

[Anthony_Loera]

Niner,

But if it does say "Trans-resveratrol", you are still not guaranteed to get that.

Technically you are correct because of USP standards (Due to +- 15% over/under filled capsule allowance). However, FDA is pretty exact about their labeling requirements, and documentation regarding active ingredients. Basically it comes down to this...

Say the FDA enters your facility, and asks to see your master batch records (Each is basically collection of documents that where created when a batch was made into a finished product). One of the issues is labeling. If the FDA looks at your label, and it states "Trans-resveratrol" on the label, you best have identity tested for this active ingredient in your labs, otherwise the whole batch is considered adulterated, and the FDA can simply destroy you. We obviously do the right thing, and test for it all the time.

What does this mean to the average Joe looking at products? It simply says to Joe...

"Hey Joe, this label says Trans-resveratrol on it. It means that if the FDA goes to investigate these guys, they must have tested for this and put the right amount in the bottle... otherwise the FDA can rip them to shreds. This other bottle that only says resveratrol on it... well, they are hedging their bets a bit, and may not be testing for trans-resveratrol. The FDA only needs to know the total amount of resveratrol found, regardless of the isomer. So sometimes you will get good stuff, and sometimes... maybe not so good because these guys don't care about the isomer, they care about selling you 'resveratrol'..."

Changing a label is easy niner, why not state "trans-resveratrol" if you test for it anyway, right?.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 August 2009 - 10:42 PM.

[niner]

But if it does say "Trans-resveratrol", you are still not guaranteed to get that.

Technically you are correct because of USP standards (Due to +- 15% over/under filled capsule allowance). However, FDA is pretty exact about their labeling requirements, and documentation regarding active ingredients. Basically it comes down to this...

Say the FDA enters your facility, and asks to see your master batch records (Each is basically collection of documents that where created when a batch was made into a finished product). One of the issues is labeling. If the FDA looks at your label, and it states "Trans-resveratrol" on the label, you best have identity tested for this active ingredient in your labs, otherwise the whole batch is considered adulterated, and the FDA can simply destroy you. We obviously do the right thing, and test for it all the time.

What does this mean to the average Joe looking at products? It simply says to Joe...

"Hey Joe, this label says Trans-resveratrol on it. It means that if the FDA goes to investigate these guys, they must have tested for this and put the right amount in the bottle... otherwise the FDA can rip them to shreds. This other bottle that only says resveratrol on it... well, they are hedging their bets a bit, and may not be testing for trans-resveratrol. The FDA only needs to know the total amount of resveratrol found, regardless of the isomer. So sometimes you will get good stuff, and sometimes... maybe not so good because these guys don't care about the isomer, they care about selling you 'resveratrol'..."

Changing a label is easy niner, why not state "trans-resveratrol" if you test for it anyway, right?.

Yes, I agree that it would be best if people nailed down the specific isomer, but in the case of resveratrol, it doesn't really matter because there would never be that much cis isomer anyway. Certainly not 15%, the over/underfill bracket. Along with getting the compound claimed on the label, we also want an acceptable level of purity. Depending on the contaminant, that could be more important than getting the labeled compound. And that's not guaranteed by the use of the isomer designation. So something could be called "Trans-resveratrol", and it might be full of contaminants, but indeed be mostly trans-resveratrol. It still wouldn't be something we'd want to take. Likewise a supplement could be labeled "Resveratrol", and it could be very clean trans-resveratrol. It could, indeed, be pure cis-resveratrol, but someone would have had to spend a lot of money to make such a thing. I just don't see it happening as a real world thing. The use of the isomer designation, while it's more precise, can only really guarantee that it isn't majority cis, which I don't think would ever really happen. It does seem like the quality companies use the isomeric designation.

[Anthony_Loera]

Niner,

I think you are mostly correct. However, I certainly wouldn't want to buy from a company that could have left the resveratrol outside, in the sun if they suddenly run out storage space in their warehouse or... in a place that is not protected from UV light, simply because they could get away with it.

You leave those kind of holes open, and people will take advantage of them. Just like Skip-lot testing hole that the FDA leaves open, so people can only test one batch a year, rather than every batch. I was in a room sometime ago with manufacturers, and these folks thought this was a great thing to do... personally I was pretty upset about how happy folks were about this practice..

Cheers
A

[Anthony_Loera]

Dagon,

about Life Smart Labs "Resveratrol Juice Extreem".

The links provided do not show a COA, or the ingredients list. It only states "100mg of trans-resveratrol per serving" on the website, but I don't see any supplemental info from the bottles.

So...
I don't know how much the serving size is.
I don't know what purity of trans-resveratrol they are using.
I don't know how many miligrams to calculate the right cost per gram.

For all I know, the serving size can be 20 capsules, taken once every 10 days, and would not be the best thing to buy if the serving size too large..

So, if you can get me a website that has this information (preferably a picture of the label), then I can add it to the list. At this point, I though it was a juice, but no... these are capsules in a bottle.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 19 August 2009 - 04:28 PM.

[niner]

Just like Skip-lot testing hole that the FDA leaves open, so people can only test one batch a year, rather than every batch. I was in a room sometime ago with manufacturers, and these folks thought this was a great thing to do... personally I was pretty upset about how happy folks were about this practice..

Wow. That really sucks. So people could buy in a completely different batch of ingredients, even from a different supplier, and still not have to test more than once a year? Am I understanding that right?

[Anthony_Loera]

Typically the FDA allows you to skip-lot on a particular supplier for a particular ingredient. Regardless if the supplier is actually a broker or not, or if methods of extraction have changed, or if identity of the active (not purity) is found in a batch a few times... the manufacturer must specify specs for “identity, purity, strength and composition”, however identity is required for the FDA, the others can be spec'd out, or generalized so that almost everything can fit the mold as long as Identity is tested for.

Cheers

A

[TheFountain]

hmm has this been added? Looks like a good deal to me.

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/16905?at=0

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi TheFountain,

thanks for this one, it is on the price watch sheet now so that you can compare prices.

that reminds me, I need to place the R300 back in stock on our website...

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 20 August 2009 - 03:22 PM.

[TheFountain]

Hi TheFountain,

thanks for this one, it is on the price watch sheet now so that you can compare prices.

that reminds me, I need to place the R300 back in stock on our website...

Cheers
A

You did place it back in stock but it was for the 30 cap jars not the one you previously had that was comparable to this one. But I am citing what I saw the day before yesterday.

[Anthony_Loera]

Are you sure Fountain?

have you clicked on the link the the R300-150 in the price watch sheet yet?
It's the very first one listed in the regular resveratrol section.

A

[Dagon]

Dagon,

about Life Smart Labs "Resveratrol Juice Extreem".

The links provided do not show a COA, or the ingredients list. It only states "100mg of trans-resveratrol per serving" on the website, but I don't see any supplemental info from the bottles.

So...
I don't know how much the serving size is.
I don't know what purity of trans-resveratrol they are using.
I don't know how many miligrams to calculate the right cost per gram.

For all I know, the serving size can be 20 capsules, taken once every 10 days, and would not be the best thing to buy if the serving size too large..

So, if you can get me a website that has this information (preferably a picture of the label), then I can add it to the list. At this point, I though it was a juice, but no... these are capsules in a bottle.

Cheers
A

Hi Anthony,

Ok, I've taken some photos of the bottle - hope this helps:
http://picasaweb.goo...feat=directlink

[Anthony_Loera]

Wow, that really helps!!!

thanks Dagon, it is now on line 55 on the Excel sheet.

thanks again
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 24 August 2009 - 03:13 PM.

[Dagon]

Wow, that really helps!!!

thanks Dagon, it is now on line 55 on the Excel sheet.

thanks again
A

Cool, that was quick!!

Nice one Anthony.

[hormoneman]

http://www.bulknutri...=...em&c=082709

At 500mg/day - 2 capsules - a one month supply would only cost $18.99

I've not seen any lower price

Comments

[maxwatt]

http://www.bulknutri...=...em&c=082709

At 500mg/day - 2 capsules - a one month supply would only cost $18.99

I've not seen any lower price

Comments

You really have to look closely at these things. If you click on the picture of the bottle, you get an enlarged view and you can read the label. It says "100 mg resveratrol, 30 mg quercetin." The writeup says 250 mg of "Resverapure" a Polygonum cuspidatum extract. Is Resverapure a less-than-50% extract? Where did the missing 150 mg go? What is the actual dose? I don't think one can accurately price it with this information.

[Anthony_Loera]

Resveratrol Ultra by FWM Labs of Florida has been placed on the price watch.

See this link if you are one of those folks that tried the "Free Trial" and now want to cancel the recurring $87.13 monthly payments:
http://www.imminst.o...abs-t32319.html

By the way, they are on line 74 of the price watch list.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 28 August 2009 - 04:28 PM.

[hormoneman]

The lead defendant named in the suit is FWM Laboratories of Hollywood, Fla., which sells Resveratrol Ultra, Acai Berry Detox, and other supplements. Customers have complained to the Better Business Bureau that FWM makes it difficult to return products, and the company continues to charge their credit cards long after they cancel. FWM is currently under investigation by the Florida Attorney General's economic crimes division.

FWM Blames Its Affiliates
FWM's CEO Brian Weiss was not available to comment, a company spokeswoman said Aug. 20. But in an interview earlier this summer, Weiss told BusinessWeek that he didn't write his own ads. Instead, he said, he worked through networks of "affiliates," which he paid to spread the word about FWM's products through Google (GOOG), Yahoo! (YHOO), and other sites. Weiss said that his employees kept an eye out for inappropriate celebrity endorsements and he asked the affiliates to pull those ads. He declined to name the ad affiliates FWM uses, because "we don't want our competitors to know who we deal with."

http://www.businessw...0820_480635.htm


The company behind the resveratrol ads, FWM Labs, has an "F" rating.

"An F is a flag, an F is a failure. An F is the lowest grade that you can possibly have and that should be a sign to the public not to deal with that company," Galvin said.

The problem is customers don't know who they're dealing with. The company has dozens of Web sites but none of them are registered to FWM. Internet security expert Alex Stamos says it's not how a reputable company would operate.

"I'm guessing it's a very important part of their business model to stay ahead of the customer complaints and stay ahead of people being able to figure out who they are," Stamos said. It took CBS News a while, but we finally tracked down FWM at a warehouse in Hollywood, Fla. where dozens of workers were processing, packing and shipping out pills as fast as the labels would print.

"We have a customer service center," said Brian Weiss, FWM's 29-year-old CEO. "If we have complaints we contact the customer immediately."

But we spoke to dozens of customers who found it next to impossible to get through to FWM. Many vented their frustrations on online forums like complaintsboard.com, calling FWM's business a "fraud" and a "rip-off." A Google search for "FWM" turns up page after page of such complaints.

"We've sold to million and a half customers since November," Weiss said. "So in the overall picture, the number of complaints seems high, but it's low when compared to the number of orders we've shipped out."

In fact, FWM is one of the most complained-about companies in the nation. The Florida Attorney General is investigating the company and the Federal Trade Commission is looking into the marketing tactic they - and companies like them - use. News organizations including CBS have tried to get FWM and others to stop misusing their reports to sell products.

http://www.cbsnews.c...in5193515.shtml


Anthony - This doesn't look like anyone we should be dealing with

Resveratrol Ultra by FWM Labs of Florida has been placed on the price watch.

See this link if you are one of those folks that tried the "Free Trial" and now want to cancel the recurring $87.13 monthly payments:
http://www.imminst.o...abs-t32319.html

By the way, they are on line 74 of the price watch list.

Cheers
A

[Anthony_Loera]

I agree,

I did not place a link for them in the price watch since they have tons of issues. They are there merely for comparison.

The price watch merely shows that they are one of the most expensive on the list...
while the news shows their issues and why they have been given an "F" rating, as a company.

From the price watch standpoint, they are expensive compare to many many others on the list... so if folks have not seen the news (or Oprah's lawsuit), maybe they will consider how expensive the "Free Trial" product really is.

BTW: thanks for the summary hormoneman.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 31 August 2009 - 11:58 AM.

[hormoneman]

Anthony

What about these prices

http://www.nutrabio....resveratrol.htm

This is what they say about there purity - I've requested a COA on the resveratrol

http://www.nutrabio.com/coa.htm

[Anthony_Loera]

Nice hormoneman...

Be careful though, even though it says "Pharmaceutical Purity of 99.87%" it is really only 50% Trans-resveratrol according to all the labels shown... so, again it shows that the words "Pharmaceutical" are really for marketing purposes.

When checking the COA page, there is no COA's available for Resveratrol at the time of this posting.
http://www.nutrabio.com/coa.htm

I will add it soon to the Price watch list with the correct price per gram, so that you can compare.

Cheers

[Anthony_Loera]

http://www.bulknutri...=...em&c=082709

At 500mg/day - 2 capsules - a one month supply would only cost $18.99

I've not seen any lower price

Comments

Hi Hormoneman,

I was looking at this, and the stuff in product is called ""Resverapure". But there doesn't seem to be anything pure about it: See link below, as naturex sells it and has a description for it. Sounds like pure marketing to me:
===============================================
http://www.naturex.c...tactiv02_gb.htm

Resverapure®
(Huzhang extract)
Polygonum cuspidatum
Standard: 8% Total Resveratrols
Item #: 331230
===============================================

The final price for resveratrol is actually expensive, it is in between Resveratrol Ultra and ResV toward the bottom of the list. I will get it out there in a bit, as I am adding another one.


<OK, it's up on the list now>

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 08 September 2009 - 02:19 PM.

[newshadow]

Some remarks regarding the evolving structure and contents of this thread.

To keep this thread readable and to allow for a clear overview of contributions that are aimed at discussing pricing, a split from this thread has been created that discusses quality aspects. The readers should be aware of the fact that there could be a trade-off between price and quality. It is very encouraged to read the thread that deals with the quality discussion as well, before making decisions based on price alone.

Hi everyone,

This is Anthony.

I was following many conversations regarding Resveratrol, and I didn't see a topic that simply had folks post resveratrol pricing, where to find the particular price, etc. I posted this in another place on this forum, but I believe it should have a topic all on it's own. So... I think I need to pull a 'Progressive' on you all, and give you a link to an excel file that I have with price comparisons between some products. Please link to this post and not to the webpage below, as I rename these to avoid some caching issues in some of the browsers.

Excel Sheet (If you downloaded this before, you may not get the latest, as IE may open what is in your computer's cache):
Get Excel Here!

Or...

Web Page:
See Webpage List!

I believe some folks may update some items on this excel sheet over the weekend with some prices that may beat our own at RevGenetics [glasses] , and that is quite alright. We think in the long run, it helps you as a community, and it also helps our company (and maybe others) understand what pricing we should be offering, along with services, and maybe allows changes to our current products. [thumb]

Please feel free to download, and let me know what others I should add to it, even if they beat the pants off our products. Please also send links to websites you found the pricing along with any updates to this file.

Anthony Loera

(BTW: When updates are made, this same link here on this first post will always have the latest file with the updates.)

Do they test every batch? I have some from them from like 2 years ago and after hearing about heavy metals in the supps I am thinking of tossing it and buying a bucket from Mr.Anthony here.

Cheers.

[Anthony_Loera]

Interesting that you mention "bucket"... as we now use pouches.
Maybe you have seen an old picture or video of our older container?

Cheers
A

[cytg]

Looking at the spreadsheet, the column SIRT1 tested, what is that?
And why is it only present at RevGenetics?
Couldnt the column just as well be called "RegGenetics"?

[Anthony_Loera]

When Longivenix was on the list, it was relevant as you could see which supplement companies actually took the time and had the SIRT1 Biomol testing done.

However the Longy folks opted not be represented on the price list so it can be compared to others by it's product's price. They asked us to take them off entirely. So now, only one company appears to use that column.

Do you know of others that have done the SIRT1 tests on their supplements, by an independent lab?

I hope this answers your inquiry.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 05 October 2009 - 09:14 PM.

[pycnogenol]

Hi Anthony,

If you haven't already:

Maybe add the Pure Caps brand to your price watch list:

Pure Encapsulations, Resveratrol Extra, 120 Veggie Capsules

SRP: $63.90

- pycnogenol

Edited by pycnogenol, 19 October 2009 - 05:53 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

I am getting there... been quite busy, but I will post this soon.
Should this topic be pinned or is the leadership moving it someplace else?

Cheers
A