1084 replies to this topic

[missminni]

We have all these new nifty ways of taking t-res now! I had a dream last night that I was Tony Montana with 20lbs of pure t-res on my desk...

It does draw a parallel, doesn't it.
I just hope they don't make it illegal.
If they do, Maxwatt, you da man.

[sUper GeNius]

We have all these new nifty ways of taking t-res now! I had a dream last night that I was Tony Montana with 20lbs of pure t-res on my desk...

It does draw a parallel, doesn't it.
I just hope they don't make it illegal.
If they do, Maxwatt, you da man.

The candy man!

[maxwatt]

We have all these new nifty ways of taking t-res now! I had a dream last night that I was Tony Montana with 20lbs of pure t-res on my desk...

It does draw a parallel, doesn't it.
I just hope they don't make it illegal.
If they do, Maxwatt, you da man.

The candy man!

Actually almost everything reported as to beneficial resveratrol effects on this forum is consistent with the placebo effect, or is purely anecdotal. The exception is the pain relief and reduction in inflammation seen in some users. I believe it is time to start, or (restart) a thread on resveratrol effects, for effects beyond "I felt stronger", or "I had less pain", but more like "Before taking resveratrol I could produce 250 watts on an ergonometer for at most 60 seconds; after a year taking resveratol, I can do it for four minutes." Maybe later today.

[missminni]

Actually almost everything reported as to beneficial resveratrol effects on this forum is consistent with the placebo effect, or is purely anecdotal. The exception is the pain relief and reduction in inflammation seen in some users. I believe it is time to start, or (restart) a thread on resveratrol effects, for effects beyond "I felt stronger", or "I had less pain", but more like "Before taking resveratrol I could produce 250 watts on an ergonometer for at most 60 seconds; after a year taking resveratol, I can do it for four minutes." Maybe later today.

I think the placebo effect itself is pretty amazing. Mind over matter - the strongest medicine of all.

[tintinet]

The only effects one might not be able to attribute to placebo effect, ISTM, would have to be the result of a blinded, controlled placebo vs. t-resveratrol study in humans. As missminni notes, placebo effect is mighty!

[maxwatt]

The only effects one might not be able to attribute to placebo effect, ISTM, would have to be the result of a blinded, controlled placebo vs. t-resveratrol study in humans. As missminni notes, placebo effect is mighty!

But not as mighty as popular belief would have us believe.

I was thinking of my before and after foot photos, but again, N = 1. Anecdotally, Missminni's father had similar relief of arthritic pain. Not up to the double-blind gold standard.

The hallmark of the placebo effect in larger groups is that the "cure" rate is very close to 33 per cent. Just like a surprising number of commonly performed surgical procedures.

Perhaps Bixbyte could amend his poll to add a column: "positive effect noted- yes/no"

[missminni]

The only effects one might not be able to attribute to placebo effect, ISTM, would have to be the result of a blinded, controlled placebo vs. t-resveratrol study in humans. As missminni notes, placebo effect is mighty!

But not as mighty as popular belief would have us believe.

I was thinking of my before and after foot photos, but again, N = 1. Anecdotally, Missminni's father had similar relief of arthritic pain. Not up to the double-blind gold standard.

The hallmark of the placebo effect in larger groups is that the "cure" rate is very close to 33 per cent. Just like a surprising number of commonly performed surgical procedures.

Perhaps Bixbyte could amend his poll to add a column: "positive effect noted- yes/no"

That's incredible! 33% is great for the placebo effect and pathetic for a surgical procedure. I would prefer to pursue the mechanism of the placebo effect and how to enhance it. I actually believe (my personal belief) that we have the ability to regenerate ourselves at a cellular level if we can tap into that part of our cellular memory. Does that sound crazy? I have had this belief ever since I learned as a kid that we only use 10% of our brain. I figured if worms could grow new heads, why wouldn't people, so much more evolved than worms, have that same inherent ability to regenerate. Afterall, there was 90% of unused brain matter just waiting to be challenged. Not having a science background, I can allow myself to have these illogical thoughts. But I wonder if they are really that far fetched. It was Arthur Clark who said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law). Maybe my fanciful wishful thinking might not be so illogical in another 100years.

ETA~my dad and Resveratol update:
It seems that my dad neglected to tell me that although he remains pain free all day, when he wakes up in the morning, he has pain.
So, what he has been doing, is taking a vicadan when he gets up so it will get rid of his pain immediately and then he takes the R300 afterwards. He claims that when he takes Vicadan it only is effective for 3 hours max. But since he has been taking the Res, he reamins pain free the rest of the day.
He takes another R300 at lunchtime and and another before bed. I suggested that in addition to the R300
he takes at bedtime, that he take a 800mg dose of the pure powder Res to see if that mitigates his
morning pain. Will report back on results.

Edited by missminni, 05 December 2007 - 06:45 PM.

[maxwatt]

The only effects one might not be able to attribute to placebo effect, ISTM, would have to be the result of a blinded, controlled placebo vs. t-resveratrol study in humans. As missminni notes, placebo effect is mighty!

But not as mighty as popular belief would have us believe.

I was thinking of my before and after foot photos, but again, N = 1. Anecdotally, Missminni's father had similar relief of arthritic pain. Not up to the double-blind gold standard.

The hallmark of the placebo effect in larger groups is that the "cure" rate is very close to 33 per cent. Just like a surprising number of commonly performed surgical procedures.

Perhaps Bixbyte could amend his poll to add a column: "positive effect noted- yes/no"

That's incredible! 33% is great for the placebo effect and pathetic for a surgical procedure. I would prefer to pursue the mechanism of the placebo effect and how to enhance it. I actually believe (my personal belief) that we have the ability to regenerate ourselves at a cellular level if we can tap into that part of our cellular memory. Does that sound crazy? I have had this belief ever since I learned as a kid that we only use 10% of our brain. I figured if worms could grow new heads, why wouldn't people, so much more evolved than worms, have that same inherent ability to regenerate. Afterall, there was 90% of unused brain matter just waiting to be challenged. Not having a science background, I can allow myself to have these illogical thoughts. But I wonder if they are really that far fetched. It was Arthur Clark who said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law). Maybe my fanciful wishful thinking might not be so illogical in another 100years.

ETA~my dad and Resveratol update:
It seems that my dad neglected to tell me that although he remains pain free all day, when he wakes up in the morning, he has pain.
So, what he has been doing, is taking a vicadan when he gets up so it will get rid of his pain immediately and then he takes the R300 afterwards. He claims that when he takes Vicadan it only is effective for 3 hours max. But since he has been taking the Res, he reamins pain free the rest of the day.
He takes another R300 at lunchtime and and another before bed. I suggested that in addition to the R300
he takes at bedtime, that he take a 800mg dose of the pure powder Res to see if that mitigates his
morning pain. Will report back on results.

How old is his mattress? It's possible that an select comfort or tempurpedic mattress would solve that problem. After 5 or 6 years, most mattresses sag, causing morning back pain.

[missminni]

How old is his mattress? It's possible that an select comfort or tempurpedic mattress would solve that problem. After 5 or 6 years, most mattresses sag, causing morning back pain.

He's got a great bed. One of those that
do everything in every position and he loves it. He only has it a few years.
His pain in the morning is in his side. He had two hip replacements about
7 or 8 years ago and one of them came out of whack and he refused to
go back and be opened up again. I think thats what he is dealing with.
He goes for chiropractic adjustments that hold for awhile but not permanetly.

[niner]

Missminni, I'm glad to hear that resveratrol is working for your dad.

I was thinking the other day about what kind of people are most susceptible to the placebo effect. First, I figured, would be people who are invested in some way in a positive outcome. People who had personally developed a medicine or method of use would be invested. That could include a lot of us. I'm "invested" to the tune of about a thousand bucks... That probably describes a lot of us as well. Some of us own shares in Sirtris... What about personalities? Any influence there? I would expect intelligent, creative, passionate people to be more susceptible to placebo effects. Check, check, and double check! There we are again. What sorts of endpoints are likely to be associated with placebo effects? Probably those where our mood and emotional state might influence the effort we expend, like me in the gym. I'm sure I'm getting stronger. So sure am I that I've been going to the gym a lot more than I used to, and pushing myself harder. It's working great so far. I really do attribute some of it to the resveratrol (and other things) that I've been taking over the past year or so. But some of it's probably wrapped up in my mind. Not that it matters, since there's no question that I'm lifting more weight, putting out more watts on the ergometer, and have a lower resting heart rate and bp. Those are quantitative measurements. I just can't honestly say they are due to any given substance. Finally, inflammatory conditions wax and wane, and are probably tied to our emotional states in ways that we don't fully understand. Here again, these are tough endpoints to use to decide the efficacy of a drug.

The heck of it is, I really do think that I and others of you are seeing positive effects that are real; it's just that pesky problem of "proof" or "quality of evidence".

If we could get a bunch of dull, uninterested people, and give half of them the drug, and half of them a placebo... We'd be all set.

Disclaimer: My name is niner. I'm a resveratrolic.

[missminni]

Missminni, I'm glad to hear that resveratrol is working for your dad.

I was thinking the other day about what kind of people are most susceptible to the placebo effect. First, I figured, would be people who are invested in some way in a positive outcome. People who had personally developed a medicine or method of use would be invested. That could include a lot of us. I'm "invested" to the tune of about a thousand bucks... That probably describes a lot of us as well. Some of us own shares in Sirtris... What about personalities? Any influence there? I would expect intelligent, creative, passionate people to be more susceptible to placebo effects. Check, check, and double check! There we are again. What sorts of endpoints are likely to be associated with placebo effects? Probably those where our mood and emotional state might influence the effort we expend, like me in the gym. I'm sure I'm getting stronger. So sure am I that I've been going to the gym a lot more than I used to, and pushing myself harder. It's working great so far. I really do attribute some of it to the resveratrol (and other things) that I've been taking over the past year or so. But some of it's probably wrapped up in my mind. Not that it matters, since there's no question that I'm lifting more weight, putting out more watts on the ergometer, and have a lower resting heart rate and bp. Those are quantitative measurements. I just can't honestly say they are due to any given substance. Finally, inflammatory conditions wax and wane, and are probably tied to our emotional states in ways that we don't fully understand. Here again, these are tough endpoints to use to decide the efficacy of a drug.

The heck of it is, I really do think that I and others of you are seeing positive effects that are real; it's just that pesky problem of "proof" or "quality of evidence".

If we could get a bunch of dull, uninterested people, and give half of them the drug, and half of them a placebo... We'd be all set.

Disclaimer: My name is niner. I'm a resveratrolic.

ITA
In every aspect. That's why I find the most interesting chemistry is the one that creates the placebo effect.
It's why I think we really can change ourselves at a cellular level, and that the passion/belief whatever it is that stimulates the placebo effect has to have a hormonal or chemical property in and of itself. Right? Or am I off on that? I'm sorry I didn't even take chemistry in high school.
I think that my Dad might be a good test subject because he not a believer, although that's not entirely true. He is now. But not before he tried it.

If we could get a bunch of dull, uninterested people, and give half of them the drug, and half of them a placebo... We'd be all set.

They do that all the time in universities. I see them advertise for testers.
Maybe the Resveratrol merchants could all get together and organize to fund a private study with paid subjects.
Just have people come in to make a few bucks and be very dispassionate about the product.
Even if they used a small test group. They were talking about doing something together to further consumer
confidence. This would help

Edited by missminni, 06 December 2007 - 03:02 AM.

[malbecman]

Well said, Niner. I think you are totally correct about those of us on the board being invested one way or another in resveratrol and wanting a positive outcome. Still, for a young whippersnapper in his 40s, I feel pretty darn great with my resveratrol supplementation getting close to the 1 yr mark and I still have not caught a cold in that time. With 2 small kids, I consider that nothing short of a minor miracle and I"ll take it, placebo effect or not!!! :thumb:

Missminni, I'm glad to hear that resveratrol is working for your dad.

I was thinking the other day about what kind of people are most susceptible to the placebo effect. First, I figured, would be people who are invested in some way in a positive outcome. People who had personally developed a medicine or method of use would be invested. That could include a lot of us. I'm "invested" to the tune of about a thousand bucks... That probably describes a lot of us as well. Some of us own shares in Sirtris... What about personalities? Any influence there? I would expect intelligent, creative, passionate people to be more susceptible to placebo effects. Check, check, and double check! There we are again. What sorts of endpoints are likely to be associated with placebo effects? Probably those where our mood and emotional state might influence the effort we expend, like me in the gym. I'm sure I'm getting stronger. So sure am I that I've been going to the gym a lot more than I used to, and pushing myself harder. It's working great so far. I really do attribute some of it to the resveratrol (and other things) that I've been taking over the past year or so. But some of it's probably wrapped up in my mind. Not that it matters, since there's no question that I'm lifting more weight, putting out more watts on the ergometer, and have a lower resting heart rate and bp. Those are quantitative measurements. I just can't honestly say they are due to any given substance. Finally, inflammatory conditions wax and wane, and are probably tied to our emotional states in ways that we don't fully understand. Here again, these are tough endpoints to use to decide the efficacy of a drug.

The heck of it is, I really do think that I and others of you are seeing positive effects that are real; it's just that pesky problem of "proof" or "quality of evidence".

If we could get a bunch of dull, uninterested people, and give half of them the drug, and half of them a placebo... We'd be all set.

Disclaimer: My name is niner. I'm a resveratrolic.

[ilanso]

I was thinking the other day about what kind of people are most susceptible to the placebo effect. First, I figured, would be people who are invested in some way in a positive outcome. People who had personally developed a medicine or method of use would be invested.

Definition of placebo effect: a beneficial effect from positive expectations.

A cohort study was made to determine the role of the placebo effect.
The study target (Placebo) was administered to a group of 100 people of various ages and genders suffering from various ills, while another group of 100 (controls) received placebo.
The study was double-blind, meaning that neither patients nor the administering /attending medical staff knew who was getting what.
Results: after two weeks, the difference between the two groups strongly suggested that ...

Fill in your own conclusion.
(There are 10 categories of people: those who understand binary and those who don't).
Placebo is all about life affirmation: me, me!: I'm engaged in a life and death fight against the latter.
The upshot is, it's good for one's health; downside: it gets in the way of evaluating science (a bit like the Chinese herbal medicine).
It also calls to mind the disquieting specter of a life unexamined... (to what do I owe my feeling better?)

Please excuse my waxing, I just figured a little slightly off-topic black humor divagation after midnight might not be entirely bad form.

[sUper GeNius]

I've been trying a 50% DMSO solution with t-res for the last few days. Target area is a finger that I dislocated many years ago. Has given me pain ever since. I tried DSMO alone on the finger about three years ago, no effect.

For the last three days I have used the DMSO/tres solution. From the first application, in eight hours I noticed the difference. Better still after the second day. Today, woke up, grabbed a mug of coffee in a way that always gives me pain in the joint, guess what, no pain! First time in 12 years. Coincidence? Placebo? I hope not.

[missminni]

I've been trying a 50% DMSO solution with t-res for the last few days. Target area is a finger that I dislocated many years ago. Has given me pain ever since. I tried DSMO alone on the finger about three years ago, no effect.

For the last three days I have used the DMSO/tres solution. From the first application, in eight hours I noticed the difference. Better still after the second day. Today, woke up, grabbed a mug of coffee in a way that always gives me pain in the joint, guess what, no pain! First time in 12 years. Coincidence? Placebo? I hope not.

That's great news.
My dad's right hand was numb and he wasn't able to hold a pen and write with it prior to taking the res.
He never told me because he didn't want me to worry. He just told me today, that since taking res, the numbness
has cleared up and he can hold a pen and write again.
He got the DMSO today, but won't try it because he got freaked out by the warning on the label that says it is a solvent.
But he says he is definitely feeling major improvements since using res.
I don't think its placebo, but I don't care whether it is or not. it's working.
I am so happy to hear you had success with the dMSO/res combo.
And you were kind of doubting it if I recall. You were trying to find another method, so you
can't really say it was placebo because you didn't have that much confidence in it.

[AlbertN]

Let me add my two cents.

About 3 or 4 months ago, I started taking 98% Resveratrol because I had hopes that it would help by hip osteoarthritis. I started small, but quickly upped by dose to 2 grams a day (about a teaspoon) mixed with Lecithin. I would take the resveratrol after eating. After I upped my dosage, I started to get hives. I stopped taking it and my hives went away. When I resumed taking it, my hives returned. Thus, I am fairly sure that my hives came from a reaction to resveratrol. I started taking Claritin, which kept my hives under control, and I resumed taking 2 grams of Resveratrol every day. While my hips have improved recently, I'm not sure how much came from the physical therapy, and how much from the Resveratrol (or other supplements I am taking.)

Also, another thing I had tried about 6 months ago for my hip was DMSO. I had heard that DMSO might be helpful, so I bought some 70% DMSO gel from LEF and applied it to my hip. Also, since I had also heard the Celadrin might be effective, I applied that as well, since DMSO acts as a solvent and helps chemicals go through the skin. (One thing that people here should be careful about is that DMSO is an incredible solvent, and so even dye from clothes may penetrate the skin. Not wanting that, I have been wearing white boxers.) Unfortunately, this was not effective. Furthermore I got no hives from the DMSO. (This will be important as you will see later.)

Recently, I have read here that people were applying DMSO with resveratrol. I also read that 16 mg/ml were the limits of how much resveratrol could be dissolved in DMSO. So I tried mixing a small amount of resveratrol with DMSO (probably less than 200 mg.), and applied it to my hip. I also took my 2 grams of resveratrol mixed with lecithin at the same time. The next morning I wound up with a ton of hives (even with the Claritin that I had been taking, which previously was enough to prevent hives). So the next day I took nothing and my hives went away. Being curious, the next day, I did not apply any resveratrol to my skin, but instead doubled my oral dose to 4 grams. Still no hives.

So the next day I mixed 2 grams of resveratrol with about 30 ml of DMSO. I know that this was way above what should be dissolved, but I figured at worst, I would waste some resveratrol. After mixing, I could discern no particles in the gel (I can however see very small particles when I mix resveratrol with lecithin). I applied it to both my hips (with no oral intake) and the hives returned. They also returned in places no where near my hip, so resveratrol probably got into my system. (I washed my hands after the application and I doubt that the hives were because of accidental contact with the resveratrol/DMSO mixture. Furthermore, although there were a few hives within location where I had applied resveratrol, most of the skin that came into direct contact that did not develop hives.) The amount that I used was small, it was on a couple of fingertips and was enough to cover maybe an eight inch diameter of skin and get completely rubbed in.

Since the resveratrol seemed to be dissolved by the DMSO completely, the next day I added 2 more grams of resveratrol to the mix. Again, it seemed to completely dissolve. I applied a smaller amount to only my left hip and I have continued to get hives. Also, I'm not sure, but I think that my hip might be improving.

Since I know that resveratrol gives me hives and not DMSO, and since the oral intake of up to 4 grams of resveratrol did not cause hives (when taking Claritin), but the much smaller amount applied to my hips did, it seems very likely that much more resveratrol enters the system when combined with DMSO.


Albert

[sUper GeNius]

Albert,

Do you get hives from any other potentially life extending substances that I may want to administer with DMSO? I'll pay for the Clariton, okay?

[niner]

Since I know that resveratrol gives me hives and not DMSO, and since the oral intake of up to 4 grams of resveratrol did not cause hives (when taking Claritin), but the much smaller amount applied to my hips did, it seems very likely that much more resveratrol enters the system when combined with DMSO.

I've heard that resveratrol can cause a contact dermatitis. I'm not sure that having hives distant from the site of application means that you're getting a higher systemic dose of resveratrol. It might also be that inflammatory mediators are migrating systemically. Probably the more important thing is how your hip feels. It does sound like people are having success with topical application at the site of inflammation.

[missminni]

Since I know that resveratrol gives me hives and not DMSO, and since the oral intake of up to 4 grams of resveratrol did not cause hives (when taking Claritin), but the much smaller amount applied to my hips did, it seems very likely that much more resveratrol enters the system when combined with DMSO.

I've heard that resveratrol can cause a contact dermatitis. I'm not sure that having hives distant from the site of application means that you're getting a higher systemic dose of resveratrol. It might also be that inflammatory mediators are migrating systemically. Probably the more important thing is how your hip feels. It does sound like people are having success with topical application at the site of inflammation.

I have very sensitive skin and have been using the res on my skin and internally and
have not had any reaction like that.
I usually break out in hives or rashes. If stuff is prone to cause them, I get them.
But maybe res just agrees with me.
Or maybe there is something else that albertn is taking that is causing
the res to have that reaction. But as you point out, it does sound like he is having positive results in regard to his hip.
Full Memeber is too. I don't think this is the placebo effect. If it is, it must be the contagious variety.

[ilanso]

Albert's account was extremely informative.
It also corroborates our previous suspicion that the 16mg/ml saturation figure is probably an order of magnitude too low.
It may just be that he is the first known (to us) person allergic to Res (Mimosa pudica Res.). If that's true, this represents one of the few and far between Res. bio-markers we have come across.
Now hives are nasty, but not impossible to live with. I wish I had the condition - at over 7g/day (orally) for months, I can't say I feel any effect (except in the pocket). Many a time in despair did I reach for the credit card to order an independent lab test only to be informed it would cost many times more than the subject of the assay.
As a Res. barometer of sorts ("resvemeter"), you would never have to spend a dime on it again, were we to snail-mail you our samples (large enough to make it worth your while) and you to email back the verdict. :tung: I am only half-joking - I'd personally do it in a NY minute (as a service to both myself and the imminst community; there's nothing to lose, since you only want to use stuff that gives you hives anyway). Caveat: there is always the risk of having blank days those times when the powder proves not to be legit or a particular member chooses to exercise his right to deliberately test the resvemeter against placebo.

[missminni]

Albert's account was extremely informative.
It also corroborates our previous suspicion that the 16mg/ml saturation figure is probably an order of magnitude too low.
It may just be that he is the first known (to us) person allergic to Res (Mimosa pudica Res.). If that's true, this represents one of the few and far between Res. bio-markers we have come across.
Now hives are nasty, but not impossible to live with. I wish I had the condition - at over 7g/day (orally) for months, I can't say I feel any effect (except in the pocket). Many a time in despair did I reach for the credit card to order an independent lab test only to be informed it would cost many times more than the subject of the assay.
As a Res. barometer of sorts ("resvemeter"), you would never have to spend a dime on it again, were we to snail-mail you our samples (large enough to make it worth your while) and you to email back the verdict. :tung: I am only half-joking - I'd personally do it in a NY minute (as a service to both myself and the imminst community; there's nothing to lose, since you only want to use stuff that gives you hives anyway). Caveat: there is always the risk of having blank days those times when the powder proves not to be legit or a particular member chooses to exercise his right to deliberately test the resvemeter against placebo.

That's a lot of Res. Why keep taking it if you don't think it's effective?
what ailment or condition do you have that you are looking for Res to have an effect on? If I didn't have particular
issues (knee joints, mortons neuroma,back pain etc) that I notice are relieved by the Res, I don't know that I would
notice anything all that different. I definitely have a feeling of well being, but that can be from anything. Why take so
much? I only take (max) 2g a day. My Dad is only taking 900mg a day and getting excellent results and he weighs 180 lbs.

[AlbertN]

Full Member,

I don't think I have gotten hives from anything else that I have taken. Furthermore, other things may also be contributing to my hives but it is clear that when I take the resveratrol I get hives, and when I stop taking resveratrol my hives go away.

Missminni,

I'm 6'1" and weight 200 pounds. My hips are a complicated problem because I have both arthritis and bursitis. Over the past few months my hips have improved significantly. The things that I have been doing differently from the past are: 1) getting myofascial release of the hip and thigh (mostly along the IT band), 2) doing leg raises 3 times a week from various angles with ankle weights, and 3) taking resveratrol mixed with lecithin.

I have no doubt that the first two things above have helped me. I'm not yet sure how much the resveratrol has. It may have or it may not have, but I'm reluctant to change anything yet because of my improvement. (I didn't notice the immediate relief that some others here have.) I may have noticed a bigger improvement from the topical application, but honestly I'm not sure of that either.

The reason I was taking 2 grams daily is because that's where Max Watt and others have noticed relief. I only went to 4 grams orally for 1 day, because I was curious to see if I could replicate the effect of the oral and topical application on my hives by doubling my oral dose. (I could not.) Finally, I'm no longer taking resveratrol orally. I'm currently only taking it topically. It's much cheaper that way and it may be having more effect. (I estimate that the 4 grams of resveratrol I mixed in with 30 ml of DMSO should last at least 2 weeks to a month.)

And finally, even if it's not helping my arthritis (something that I am not sure about), I hopefully am receiving the other benefits of resveratrol.

Albert

[malbecman]

Missminni,

If it helps your dad at all, you can tell him that water is one of the best solvents known. I know the word "solvent" has dirty chemical like connotations but all it really means is that it (the solvent) has the abillity to dissolve (solvate) a compound in it. Life as we know it on this Earth would not be possible without the wonderful solvating ability of water.....

That's great news.

He got the DMSO today, but won't try it because he got freaked out by the warning on the label that says it is a solvent.

[missminni]

Missminni,

If it helps your dad at all, you can tell him that water is one of the best solvents known. I know the word "solvent" has dirty chemical like connotations but all it really means is that it (the solvent) has the abillity to dissolve (solvate) a compound in it. Life as we know it on this Earth would not be possible without the wonderful solvating ability of water.....

That's great news.

He got the DMSO today, but won't try it because he got freaked out by the warning on the label that says it is a solvent.

I know I tried to explain it to him but he didn't want to hear it. The label warning was in very strong terms
and he wouldn't hear different. At this point I have to let him form his own routine so that he can feel he is pro-active instead
of taking direction from his over-bearing daughter. He's doing very well, so I don't want to pressure him.
And Albert
I had excellent results using the dmso/res on my toes that are affected by Morton's Neuroma. So I wouldn't be
surprised if it helps with your hips. How many times a day do you apply it? Also, I wonder if pre-mixing the res in
the DMSO affects the Res in anyway that lessens it's effectiveness. I always mix the two together at the time of
application.

[malbecman]

OK, so I had a little more time to play in the lab today. I just got 200 mgs (weighed out) dissolved into 750 ul (microliters) of pure DMSO. So that is a measured solubility of ~266 mgs/ml and I actually think its a bit higher than that, eg, I could have used less volume. The hard part that has been alluded to before is that the resveratrol makes a real sticky sludge/paste at first when you add the DMSO and so getting all the last little bits dissolved takes a lot of stirring and/or time. Actually, as I type this out and time passes, all the last little bits have totally dissolved. I think the method that Missminni proposed of spraying the DMSO on your skin and then dropping the resveratrol works well for this as the initial sludge/paste starts out on your skin and not in your mixing bottle. Just my 2 cents....

[valjean]

Hello

I read all the latest DMSO posts and ordered some 99.5% DMSO that arrived me today.
And I planned to dilute it to 70%, but then I wast shocked when I read all the warnings
on the package insert: Liver demage, contact dermatitis, kidney problems ... and so on.

Can anyone explain why all the people here in the forum don't seem to question the
use of DMSO. Have I missed something ???

[missminni]

OK, so I had a little more time to play in the lab today. I just got 200 mgs (weighed out) dissolved into 750 ul (microliters) of pure DMSO. So that is a measured solubility of ~266 mgs/ml and I actually think its a bit higher than that, eg, I could have used less volume. The hard part that has been alluded to before is that the resveratrol makes a real sticky sludge/paste at first when you add the DMSO and so getting all the last little bits dissolved takes a lot of stirring and/or time. Actually, as I type this out and time passes, all the last little bits have totally dissolved. I think the method that Missminni proposed of spraying the DMSO on your skin and then dropping the resveratrol works well for this as the initial sludge/paste starts out on your skin and not in your mixing bottle. Just my 2 cents....

I know. When I tried to mix it on a plate, most of it stayed on the plate.
this is my method
Try bending your arm and spraying a little dmso in the crevice, than sprinkle a little res powder in there...
not too much at a time or it falls all over the place, and then sort of bend your arm closed on the mixture
so it gets mushy and then you can rub it in your skin with your fingers or a little plastic spatula or something.
and you can add more res as the white disappears if there is still some oil left on your arms or add a little
more DMSO if there is still white left. I rub it along where my veins show through my skin and then I rub
whatever is left on my fingers on my hurt toes. It works well. I also like the idea of mixing it up fresh each time
I apply it.

[ilanso]

missminni: That's a lot of Res. Why keep taking it if you don't think it's effective?
what ailment or condition do you have that you are looking for Res to have an effect on?

I don't know about yours, but mine is congenital mortality, dammit. So, not noticing any effect is like being lulled into: "I want to live forever - so far, so good". Which doesn't quite mean it doesn't work.
Why am I taking it? We are gathered in one of the the imminst fora, aren't we? Like I said before, I'm engaged in a life to death struggle against the latter.
But I need to make sure the stuff is real. Or end up dead on time :ang: , like all my ancestors, with, as epitaph "Here lies another dishonest Resv. vendor dupe".
So, Albert, seriously, can I send you a couple of samples from my sources for my eternal peace of mind? :whis: Thanks.

[missminni]

Hello

I read all the latest DMSO posts and ordered some 99.5% DMSO that arrived me today.
And I planned to dilute it to 70%, but then I wast shocked when I read all the warnings
on the package insert: Liver demage, contact dermatitis, kidney problems ... and so on.

Can anyone explain why all the people here in the forum don't seem to question the
use of DMSO. Have I missed something ???

I never heard of liver damage, or kidney problems, but
I guess if you abuse it or take too much of it, it might do that. The worst side effect reported, which was
later found to not be the case but already but an onus on DMSO back in the 60's was some sort of
retina or eye damage. I think the best thing to do is research DMSO so that you know exactly what
you are using. Dr. Jacobs, the Dr. who pioneered it is actually available to talk to about it.
Just go to his website. Google him. That's not who I bought it from, but I did talk to him about it.
At full strength it
might cause a rash, but the one I have was already diluted to 70% DMSO with 30% aloe.
There was a warning that it was to only be used as a solvent because I think it might be illegal
to sell it making any medicinal claims and the seller has to make sure that they
are not liable for any misuse of the product. That's why my Dad won't try it and I sent him
the same thing I have. I did my research on it, so I know it is harmless and from what I've
experienced, it is a bit of an anti-coagulant, so that if you have thin blood or are taking blood thinners, you should
be aware that it will have that action.

[VP.]

Hello

I read all the latest DMSO posts and ordered some 99.5% DMSO that arrived me today.
And I planned to dilute it to 70%, but then I wast shocked when I read all the warnings
on the package insert: Liver demage, contact dermatitis, kidney problems ... and so on.

Can anyone explain why all the people here in the forum don't seem to question the
use of DMSO. Have I missed something ???

The MSDS says: DMSO has shown very few toxic symptoms in humans. The most common
are nausea, skin rashes and an unusual garlic-onion-oyster smell on body
and breath. .... Stinging and burning of the skin as well as rashes and vesicles have been
seen. A heat reaction may occur if applied to wet skin. Avoid contact with
DMSO solutions containing toxic material or materials whose toxicological
properties are not known. DMSO easily penetrates the skin and may
enhance the rate of skin absorption of skin-permeable substances. But
because of DMSO's low toxicity and its inability to carry less-permeable
substances with it through the skin, it can be concluded that DMSO does
not pose a significant threat by skin absorption. ... A low ingestion hazard.
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