1084 replies to this topic

[malbecman]

Ok, I did a little more digging on DMSO toxicity and it is pretty low, apparently. My bad, sorry. The No Observed Effects Level (NOEL) which is toxicologist-speak for the level of exposure at which you are considered safe is pretty high, esp for dermal exposures-2.6 gram/kg bodyweight . Here is a quote from one of the studies:

The oral NOEL of 1,000mg/kg is equal to the tested dose just described (0.2
lb/175 lb human) and the dermal NOEL is 2600 mg/kg is over 2½ times the tested dose in
these studies. Case No. 3 (Figure 9) showed that topical (dermal) application of mixtures of
DMSO and Penicillin G almost doubles the skin penetration rate of the Penicillin, but did not
enhance the penetration rate of higher molecular weight substances such as the “allergic
chemicals” associated with house dust, animal hair, and grasses and weeds. Finally, in case
No. 4 (Figure 10) direct toxicity testing using 100% DMSO both inside the human body
(invivo) and on human organs and tissue outside the body (invitro), showed that the “toxicity
of DMSO is exaggerated”, it is really quiet low, and in fact it is useful in treating muscle and
joint inflammation, as well as other pharmaceutical uses. DMSO is present in many of the
foods we eat (Figure 11) (17) and the normal human dietary consumption is about 21 mg/day.
In the United States, the average concentration of DMSO in rainwater is between 0.14 and
0.19ppb.


Study title: DIMETHYL SULFOXIDE (DMSO)
A “NEW” CLEAN, UNIQUE, SUPERIOR SOLVENT
AMERICAN CHEMICAL SOCIETY
ANNUAL MEETING
AUGUST 20-24, 2000
WASHINGTON, DC

I"m not sure how comfortable I would be using DMSO long term. You may want to look into any potential chronic effects......

so far this was the worst I could find:
http://www.dnd.ca/he...heet_dmso_e.asp
I'm not worried, but if you know something else about it, please let me know.
more info:
http://www.mskcc.org.../html/69205.cfm

ETA~I couldn't find anything terribly negative about using DSMO, but since there are no studies I can find on
the prolonged daily use of DSMO, cutaneously or otherwise, I am a bit concerned about using it on a
prolonged indefinite daily basis.
It is now 12 hours since I used it and my experience so far has been this:

1. It absorbs very quickly and I felt it hit my bloodstream within a few minutes of application.

2. I don't know if I felt the Res or the DMSO (?) but I knew something was happening and continued to feel visceral effects
for at least 5 to 6 hours. I used about 1/8th of a teaspoon of res. thinking this would be about 200 mg. I already had
taken my daily oral dose (1.2 g) earlier, so yesterday I got a lot of res in my system.

3. I applied it to the inside of my arm. I think I used more DMSO than I need to. Today I am going to try using as little DSMO as possible.

4. A couple of hours after spraying the DSMO on my arm, I had the garlic taste in my mouth. I can't tell if my body smells
from it, because I haven't really perspired yet. I'm afraid to go the gym and find out. The taste in the mouth didn't last that long
and is gone this morning.

5. I also sprayed the DSMO on my toes where I have Mortons Nueroma. That was very effective in relieving the slight numbness
I usually have there. I am not going to spray my toes today because I want to use as little DMSO as possible. My Nueroma has improved over
the past week of taking res orally, but, as I mentioned before, I started using arch support at the same time so I really
don't know what to attribute the improvement to. Probably everything has contributed to it.

6. I am trying to figure out if one application a day (with aprx. 200 mg res - one eighth of a teaspoon) is sufficient for the res to be
effective. I'd rather not use the DSMO more than once a day, and I want to use it very sparingly.

Does anyone know if res has been tried this way before? What advantages, besides using less res, would one get from having it go
directly into the bloodstream. What advantages might one miss by not taking it orally? Are there any?

[missminni]

I know. The more I read about DMSO the more I like it. It's good stuff.
I put some on my problem toe that kills me when I wear high heels and
I walked about all night with no pain or discomfort. Used in moderation there is no garlic
aftertaste. You don't have to use much to get results. The spray is great, and so affordable.

[health_nutty]

I just received my BAC luteolin (price dropped from $45 to 30 for 20g). It seemed expensive still until I realized it would last quite a while at 50mg per day.

I'm taking around 50mg a day now with my resveratrol cocktail taken on an empty stomach in the morning:
8 oz of grapefruit juice (help absorption)
1 tsp of lecithin (helps absorption)
BAC 50% Resveratrol 1.6g (800mg t-res) (SIRT1 activator)
Activin Grape Seed Extract 250mg (synergist)
BAC 50% EGCG Green Tea Extract 250mg (SIRT1 activator when stabalized with vit C, helps absorption?)
BAC ALCAR 1.5 g (no known synergy, taking for other reasons)
BAC Pomegranate40p 250mg (helps absorption?)
BAC Luteolin 50mg (SIRT1 activator and helps absorption)
Milk Thistle 80% 500mg (SIRT1 activator)
Vitamin C 500mg (stabilizer)
Rhodiola 100mg (no known synergy, taking for other reasons)

See my full regimine here:
http://www.imminst.o...mp;#entry209926

[malbecman]

I did a quick and dirty solubility check with DMSO since it is a polar solvent like water. I was wondering how much t-resveratrol would go into it and whether it would make an effective carrier if one wanted to use the transdermal route of absorption. 200mgs of 99% pure t-resveratrol would almost, but not quite, go into 500ul (1/2 milliliter) of 99.9% DMSO. I was trying to make a guesstimate of a doseage someone might want to use, say in the 100s of mgs, and the maximum volume that someone would want to use for a transdermal application, eg, ~1/2ml. So the solubility is close, I wish it was better, eg, a lower volume, say 100ul, would be easier to work with but it might work for those that might want to try it.....

I know. The more I read about DMSO the more I like it. It's good stuff.
I put some on my problem toe that kills me when I wear high heels and
I walked about all night with no pain or discomfort. Used in moderation there is no garlic
aftertaste. You don't have to use much to get results. The spray is great, and so affordable.

[maxwatt]

I did a quick and dirty solubility check with DMSO since it is a polar solvent like water. I was wondering how much t-resveratrol would go into it and whether it would make an effective carrier if one wanted to use the transdermal route of absorption. 200mgs of 99% pure t-resveratrol would almost, but not quite, go into 500ul (1/2 milliliter) of 99.9% DMSO. I was trying to make a guesstimate of a doseage someone might want to use, say in the 100s of mgs, and the maximum volume that someone would want to use for a transdermal application, eg, ~1/2ml. So the solubility is close, I wish it was better, eg, a lower volume, say 100ul, would be easier to work with but it might work for those that might want to try it.....

Since something like 60% of the resveratrol gets glucoronated by the intestines, and goes from there to the liver where all but maybe 10% gets sulfonated or glucoronated, whereas with DMSO, pure resveratrol goes directly into the blood, by-passing the liver. It does reach the liver pretty quickly, but not before bathing your cells with resveratrol. I don't know the actual ratios, but it is possible that much less will be needed for sirtuin activation. You miss out on the anti-cancer effects on the intestines, but other than that, it looks like it might be useful.

[malbecman]

Ok, we'll, let's play the math game and calculate theoretical blood levels following transdermal application. I'll use 5L as an average total blood volume and a 100mg dose, assuming 100% absorption and rapid distribution in the blood compartment. MW of t-resveratrol is ~228 grams per mole.

100mgs=0.1grams 0.1gr/228 grams per mole = 0.44 mM (millimoles)

0.4mM per 5L blood = 0.088mM or 88 uM (microMolar)

I believe that is in the range for human Sirt-1 activation, correct? (feel free to check my math...)

I did a quick and dirty solubility check with DMSO since it is a polar solvent like water. I was wondering how much t-resveratrol would go into it and whether it would make an effective carrier if one wanted to use the transdermal route of absorption. 200mgs of 99% pure t-resveratrol would almost, but not quite, go into 500ul (1/2 milliliter) of 99.9% DMSO. I was trying to make a guesstimate of a doseage someone might want to use, say in the 100s of mgs, and the maximum volume that someone would want to use for a transdermal application, eg, ~1/2ml. So the solubility is close, I wish it was better, eg, a lower volume, say 100ul, would be easier to work with but it might work for those that might want to try it.....

Since something like 60% of the resveratrol gets glucoronated by the intestines, and goes from there to the liver where all but maybe 10% gets sulfonated or glucoronated, whereas with DMSO, pure resveratrol goes directly into the blood, by-passing the liver. It does reach the liver pretty quickly, but not before bathing your cells with resveratrol. I don't know the actual ratios, but it is possible that much less will be needed for sirtuin activation. You miss out on the anti-cancer effects on the intestines, but other than that, it looks like it might be useful.

[missminni]

Since something like 60% of the resveratrol gets glucoronated by the intestines, and goes from there to the liver where all but maybe 10% gets sulfonated or glucoronated, whereas with DMSO, pure resveratrol goes directly into the blood, by-passing the liver. It does reach the liver pretty quickly, but not before bathing your cells with resveratrol. I don't know the actual ratios, but it is possible that much less will be needed for sirtuin activation. You miss out on the anti-cancer effects on the intestines, but other than that, it looks like it might be useful.

I decided to do it both ways and get the benefit of both methods.
I take it once orally dissolved in milk,
and once cutaneously in DMSO.
For cutaneous application I spray one short spritz of DMSO - just one - in the crook of my
arm and sprinkle the powder (about 1/8th tsp which I
think is approx. 200 mg) over the oily skin and it dissolves by itself right into
the DMSO. Then I just rub it in.
With that small amount of DMSO, there is no aftertaste or odor.

[sUper GeNius]

Interesting. Anyone have a source of pure DMSO in glass bottles?

[maxwatt]

Interesting. Anyone have a source of pure DMSO in glass bottles?

DMSO

But it appears to be a plastic bottle.

[missminni]

My DMSO is in a plastic bottle too. Is that a problem? Is the plastic somehow contaminating the DMSO?

[sUper GeNius]

My DMSO is in a plastic bottle too. Is that a problem? Is the plastic somehow contaminating the DMSO?

Really don't know. Just concerned that the DMSO could carry out plasticizers or something.

Anyone know which would be better, the 99% or the 70% solution in water? I read somewhere that 70% passes through skin more easily.

[missminni]

My DMSO is in a plastic bottle too. Is that a problem? Is the plastic somehow contaminating the DMSO?

Really don't know. Just concerned that the DMSO could carry out plasticizers or something.

Anyone know which would be better, the 99% or the 70% solution in water? I read somewhere that 70% passes through skin more easily.

The higher the solution the easier it passes through.
99.9% purity in a 70% solution is what I am using. The other 30% is aloe vera. I like it very much.
DMSO with Aloe Veral
when I spoke with Dr. Jacobs, he said to use a 70% solution below the waist and and 50% solution above the waist.
I know I have very sensitive skin, but the 70% solution is fine for me and I am using it on the inside of my arm
and my feet. Maybe the aloe vera is mitigating the irritating potential.
I think if you used an undiluted 99% solution it might be too strong.
The most important thing is to make sure the
DMSO itself is 99.9%pure.

Edited by missminni, 30 November 2007 - 03:42 AM.

[sUper GeNius]

Who is Dr. Jacobs missminni? You may have started a new preferred method of t-res admin/dosing here.

p.s. Where exactly is the "crook" of my arm?

[missminni]

Who is Dr. Jacobs missminni? You may have started a new preferred method of t-res admin/dosing here.

p.s. Where exactly is the "crook" of my arm?

Dr. Jacobs is a DMSO pioneer and authority from what I gather:
http://www.jacoblab.com/AboutUs.htm
I didn't buy my DMSO from him because it was much more expensive than what I got and
the company I got mine from is totally approachable, which I like. But so was Dr. Jacobs.
Anyway
The crook of the arm is the inside of your elbow...where the veins are close to the surface.
Where the doctor will usually draw blood.
Also, the inside of the wrist has veins close to the surface.

ETA~The DMSO I have comes in a spray bottle which is very convenient. I just do a short spray on the
inside of my arm, very short, and then sprinkle the powder over the sprayed area and it just absorbs
into the oil, becomes colorless and then I just rub the remaining oil into my arm. It absorbs quickly.
The arm is dry in a few minutes.

Edited by missminni, 30 November 2007 - 04:29 AM.

[sUper GeNius]

Thanks Missminni. I'm breaking out the credit card now. I wonder what is next in out t-res sage...

[missminni]

Thanks Missminni. I'm breaking out the credit card now. I wonder what is next in out t-res sage...

I think this is probably the most direct way to get it into your bloodstream short
of intravenous in jection, which I would NEVER do. That's just my boundaries.
I am still taking it orally as well, in milk.

[ilanso]

According to the excellent post by macbelman (mathbelman?)

100mgs=0.1grams 0.1gr/228 grams per mole = 0.44 mM (millimoles)

0.4mM per 5L blood = 0.088mM or 88 uM (microMolar)
.....
200mgs of 99% pure t-resveratrol would almost, but not quite, go into 500ul (1/2 milliliter) of 99.9% DMSO

you would need 1/4 ml of (I assume pure, not 70%) DMSO to get the full 100mg dose in. The spray may be convenient and comfy, but hard to measure for proper titration purposes. If we are to adjust for 70% (again, provided m-man used 99%) you would need approx. 1/4+1/8=3/8ml to fully dissolve the 100mg dose. I would mix first, smear later - are you saying you are entirely free of white residue on your skin post application? Somehow, I have this vision of missminy holding a teaspoon full of this clear liquid simmering over a flame while her elbow (sorry, crook) veins are tightly bound by a rubber hose. Welcome to the age of freebasing resv! :smile:

[sUper GeNius]

Mix first? Why not smear first, then if any white residue is left on the arm, just give another small spray?

[ilanso]

Because you don't know whether it's truly dissolved or just hiding in the superficial layers of the epidermis, waiting to be washed out next time you take a shower. OTOH, if you know you used the right (calculated) DMSO amount, you don't have to rely on visual cues to know it's all in.

[maxwatt]

Ok, we'll, let's play the math game and calculate theoretical blood levels following transdermal application. I'll use 5L as an average total blood volume and a 100mg dose, assuming 100% absorption and rapid distribution in the blood compartment. MW of t-resveratrol is ~228 grams per mole.

100mgs=0.1grams 0.1gr/228 grams per mole = 0.44 mM (millimoles)

0.4mM per 5L blood = 0.088mM or 88 uM (microMolar)

I believe that is in the range for human Sirt-1 activation, correct? (feel free to check my math...)

It's a lot higher serum level than was achieved by oral administration of 5 grams of resveratrol. OF course, this is theoretical, not measured.

Phase I dose escalation pharmacokinetic study in healthy volunteers of resveratrol, a potential cancer chemopreventive agent.Boocock DJ, Faust GE, Patel KR, Schinas AM, Brown VA, Ducharme MP, Booth TD, Crowell JA, Perloff M, Gescher AJ, Steward WP, Brenner DE.
Cancer Biomakers and Prevention Group, Department of Cancer Studies and Molecular Medicine, Leicester Royal Infirmary, Leicester University, Leicester LE2 7LX, United Kingdom.

The red grape constituent resveratrol possesses cancer chemopreventive properties in rodents. The hypothesis was tested that, in healthy humans, p.o. administration of resveratrol is safe and results in measurable plasma levels of resveratrol. A phase I study of oral resveratrol (single doses of 0.5, 1, 2.5, or 5 g) was conducted in 10 healthy volunteers per dose level. Resveratrol and its metabolites were identified in plasma and urine by high-performance liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry and quantitated by high-performance liquid chromatography-UV. Consumption of resveratrol did not cause serious adverse events. Resveratrol and six metabolites were recovered from plasma and urine. Peak plasma levels of resveratrol at the highest dose were 539 +/- 384 ng/mL (2.4 micromol/L, mean +/- SD; n = 10), which occurred 1.5 h post-dose. Peak levels of two monoglucuronides and resveratrol-3-sulfate were 3- to 8-fold higher. The area under the plasma concentration curve (AUC) values for resveratrol-3-sulfate and resveratrol monoglucuronides were up to 23 times greater than those of resveratrol. Urinary excretion of resveratrol and its metabolites was rapid, with 77% of all urinary agent-derived species excreted within 4 h after the lowest dose. Cancer chemopreventive effects of resveratrol in cells in vitro require levels of at least 5 micromol/L. The results presented here intimate that consumption of high-dose resveratrol might be insufficient to elicit systemic levels commensurate with cancer chemopreventive efficacy. However, the high systemic levels of resveratrol conjugate metabolites suggest that their cancer chemopreventive properties warrant investigation.

PMID: 17548692

[asnufu]

...

0.4mM per 5L blood = 0.088mM or 88 uM (microMolar)

I believe that is in the range for human Sirt-1 activation, correct? (feel free to check my math...)

It's a lot higher serum level than was achieved by oral administration of 5 grams of resveratrol. OF course, this is theoretical, not measured.
.... Consumption of resveratrol did not cause serious adverse events. Resveratrol and six metabolites were recovered from plasma and urine. Peak plasma levels of resveratrol at the highest dose were 539 +/- 384 ng/mL (2.4 micromol/L, mean +/- SD; n = 10), which occurred 1.5 h post-dose. Peak levels of two monoglucuronides and resveratrol-3-sulfate were 3- to 8-fold higher. The area under the plasma concentration curve (AUC) values for resveratrol-3-sulfate and resveratrol monoglucuronides were up to 23 times greater than those of resveratrol. Urinary excretion of resveratrol and its metabolites was rapid, with 77% of all urinary agent-derived species excreted within 4 h after the lowest dose. Cancer chemopreventive effects of resveratrol in cells in vitro require levels of at least 5 micromol/L. .....

PMID: 17548692

holy smokes. Even if the DMSO calculation is off by an order of magnitude, the punch-per-mg is much better than oral ingestion. Missminni deserves a round of applause for directing attention to this form of delivery. Curiously, it has been discussed earlier, but all the forum "wizards" seemed to not pick up on it ;->

Maxwatt, do you think it would be a good idea to mix other putative sirtuin activators into this medium - I'm thinking a silymarin/luteolin/resv in DMSO mode of delivery ?

[missminni]

...

0.4mM per 5L blood = 0.088mM or 88 uM (microMolar)

I believe that is in the range for human Sirt-1 activation, correct? (feel free to check my math...)

It's a lot higher serum level than was achieved by oral administration of 5 grams of resveratrol. OF course, this is theoretical, not measured.
.... Consumption of resveratrol did not cause serious adverse events. Resveratrol and six metabolites were recovered from plasma and urine. Peak plasma levels of resveratrol at the highest dose were 539 +/- 384 ng/mL (2.4 micromol/L, mean +/- SD; n = 10), which occurred 1.5 h post-dose. Peak levels of two monoglucuronides and resveratrol-3-sulfate were 3- to 8-fold higher. The area under the plasma concentration curve (AUC) values for resveratrol-3-sulfate and resveratrol monoglucuronides were up to 23 times greater than those of resveratrol. Urinary excretion of resveratrol and its metabolites was rapid, with 77% of all urinary agent-derived species excreted within 4 h after the lowest dose. Cancer chemopreventive effects of resveratrol in cells in vitro require levels of at least 5 micromol/L. .....

PMID: 17548692

holy smokes. Even if the DMSO calculation is off by an order of magnitude, the punch-per-mg is much better than oral ingestion. Missminni deserves a round of applause for directing attention to this form of delivery. Curiously, it has been discussed earlier, but all the forum "wizards" seemed to not pick up on it ;->

Maxwatt, do you think it would be a good idea to mix other putative sirtuin activators into this medium - I'm thinking a silymarin/luteolin/resv in DMSO mode of delivery ?

Thanks.
I still think oral administration is good and will continue to do both since I think they both have
benefits that might be missed if only one method is used.
The only thing to be careful of with cutaneious application is that whatever else you have on your skin at the time will be transported
into your bloodstream too. In other words if you have sunblock or insect repellent on your skin, you wouldn't want that to get
into your bloodstream.
I found that only one minimal spray..a short spritz...dissolves an eighth of a teaspoon of powder very quickly. But do the spray first.
If you do the powder first, and then spray it, it can push the powder off your arm. I tried it that way and ended up with
powder all over the floor. Spraying your arm, and then sprinkling the powder over the oily area works great. The powder
sticks to the spray and dissolves unassisted. Then rub it afterwards.
Another thing I noticed, and I am not sure if it is related or not, but I seem to fall asleep and stay asleep longer since
doing the cutaneous method. I am taking it orally in the morning and cutaneously at night.
Is there some property of DMSO that encourages sleep? And how much Res can one safely have in their bloodstream?
I am only doing about 200mg cutaneously thinking it would be equivalent of 2 grams orally, but would it be
advantageous to have more in the bloodstream? Is their a toxic level? IIRC I thought 7 grams was toxic in rats.
I might be totally off on that. Maxwatt, please advise.

[maxwatt]

...
...
holy smokes. Even if the DMSO calculation is off by an order of magnitude, the punch-per-mg is much better than oral ingestion. Missminni deserves a round of applause for directing attention to this form of delivery. Curiously, it has been discussed earlier, but all the forum "wizards" seemed to not pick up on it ;->

Maxwatt, do you think it would be a good idea to mix other putative sirtuin activators into this medium - I'm thinking a silymarin/luteolin/resv in DMSO mode of delivery ?

Thanks.
I still think oral administration is good and will continue to do both since I think they both have
benefits that might be missed if only one method is used.
The only thing to be careful of with cutaneious application is that whatever else you have on your skin at the time will be transported
into your bloodstream too. In other words if you have sunblock or insect repellent on your skin, you wouldn't want that to get
into your bloodstream.
I found that only one minimal spray..a short spritz...dissolves an eighth of a teaspoon of powder very quickly. But do the spray first.
If you do the powder first, and then spray it, it can push the powder off your arm. I tried it that way and ended up with
powder all over the floor. Spraying your arm, and then sprinkling the powder over the oily area works great. The powder
sticks to the spray and dissolves unassisted. Then rub it afterwards.
Another thing I noticed, and I am not sure if it is related or not, but I seem to fall asleep and stay asleep longer since
doing the cutaneous method. I am taking it orally in the morning and cutaneously at night.
Is there some property of DMSO that encourages sleep? And how much Res can one safely have in their bloodstream?
I am only doing about 200mg cutaneously thinking it would be equivalent of 2 grams orally, but would it be
advantageous to have more in the bloodstream? Is their a toxic level? IIRC I thought 7 grams was toxic in rats.
I might be totally off on that. Maxwatt, please advise.

Thanks for the detailed description of the method of application. (Youtube video, anyone?)

To answer asnafu first: I would not necessarily mix other sirtuin activators for application via DMSO. Silymarin is not available in sufficient purity. Luteolin appears to be better absorbed orally (subject to experimental validation.) The resveratrol moleule is the most potent activator in vitro so I think it's the molecule we would want in our blood.

missminni: No one knows much Res can one safely have in their bloodstream, but it is almost certainly a lot more than you are putting in. The rat study, 300 mg/gk was safe, and 400 mg/kg was used safely in another study. 1000 mg/kg caused kidney lesions which were reversible. The problems were probably more due to mechanical problems in excreting high volumes of this molecule. Recommending 7 g as a maximum safe dose was chosen by 'translating' the rat dose to a human dose based on difference in surface area, and dividing by two for a safety factor.

Secondly, you only have such high levels in the blood briefly; All you blood completely circulates and passes through the liver in a matter of minutes. There the res is almost completely sulfonated and glucoronated, so levels drop to little moe than if you had taken that amount orally. But the spike in peak levels, we hope have activated your cells' sirtuin genes.

Bear in mind the above is based on chains of inference by myself and others. It is reasonable, even likely, but not certain, and not confirmed with studies. It seems safe if not done to excess, but you are assuming a risk, though it appears slight. I wouldn't drink, ingest or bath in DMSO laced with resveratrol. I myself am proceeding cautiously. I will try DMSO administration , in small amounts at first, and self-monitor.

DMSO may have some effect on slee. In rats "DMSO 15% increased mean episode duration of light slow wave sleep (SWS), decreasing mean episode duration of deep SWS and of quiet wake (QW). " Paper HERE

[missminni]

DMSO may have some effect on slee. In rats "DMSO 15% increased mean episode duration of light slow wave sleep (SWS), decreasing mean episode duration of deep SWS and of quiet wake (QW). " Paper HERE

Okay, I read the paper. Please help me out.

DMSO 20% increased light SWS enhancing number of episodes, while decreased deep SWS mean episode duration. EEG power spectra of sigma and delta activity were also affected by DMSO. Therefore, DMSO at 15% and 20% affects sleep architecture in rats, increasing light SWS and reducing deep SWS.

Does this mean you stay in a light sleep stage longer than is normal or fall into a light sleep more readily, and the deep sleep stage is cut short?
I'm sorry I have a really hard time understanding scientific explanations.
Since I am using 70% DMSO, I would assume it would make this even more pronounced.
I actually did notice I fell asleep really fast.

[maxwatt]

DMSO may have some effect on slee. In rats "DMSO 15% increased mean episode duration of light slow wave sleep (SWS), decreasing mean episode duration of deep SWS and of quiet wake (QW). " Paper HERE

Okay, I read the paper. Please help me out.

DMSO 20% increased light SWS enhancing number of episodes, while decreased deep SWS mean episode duration. EEG power spectra of sigma and delta activity were also affected by DMSO. Therefore, DMSO at 15% and 20% affects sleep architecture in rats, increasing light SWS and reducing deep SWS.

Does this mean you stay in a light sleep stage longer than is normal or fall into a light sleep more readily, and the deep sleep stage is cut short?
I'm sorry I have a really hard time understanding scientific explanations.
Since I am using 70% DMSO, I would assume it would make this even more pronounced.
I actually did notice I fell asleep really fast.

Light slow wave sleep is the stage of sleep where memory formation takes place. If I recall, the hippocampus transfers short term memories to the cortex where they are more permanently encoded.
It also appears the rats were more active; less quiet wake state.
Better than Ambien?

Did you obtain the whole paper, or just the abstract?

[missminni]

DMSO may have some effect on slee. In rats "DMSO 15% increased mean episode duration of light slow wave sleep (SWS), decreasing mean episode duration of deep SWS and of quiet wake (QW). " Paper HERE

Okay, I read the paper. Please help me out.

DMSO 20% increased light SWS enhancing number of episodes, while decreased deep SWS mean episode duration. EEG power spectra of sigma and delta activity were also affected by DMSO. Therefore, DMSO at 15% and 20% affects sleep architecture in rats, increasing light SWS and reducing deep SWS.

Does this mean you stay in a light sleep stage longer than is normal or fall into a light sleep more readily, and the deep sleep stage is cut short?
I'm sorry I have a really hard time understanding scientific explanations.
Since I am using 70% DMSO, I would assume it would make this even more pronounced.
I actually did notice I fell asleep really fast.

Light slow wave sleep is the stage of sleep where memory formation takes place. If I recall, the hippocampus transfers short term memories to the cortex where they are more permanently encoded.
It also appears the rats were more active; less quiet wake state.
Better than Ambien?

Did you obtain the whole paper, or just the abstract?

The abstract.
I never took a sleep aid except for Excedrin PM once.

[malbecman]

Wow, I missed a lot on this thread since yesterday evening.

Maxwatt is correct, the theoretical blood level I calculated is just that; a theoretical maximum concentration which would quickly be distributed throughout the body and metabolized by the liver. Still, the peak serum level is what many of us have been seeking since that should more readily find there way into the nucleus of cells, bind and activate the sirtuin genes. Missminni-think of it as a concentration gradient; Since resveratrol is so rapidly metabolized and cleared and a relatively poor sirtuin activator, you need a higher concentration in your blood to get into your cells and activate the genes.

Funny, I used to occasionally use DMSO back in my cross country running days as our coach recommended using it as a way to deliver ibuprofen/tylenol, etc, directly to your knee/shin/toe/site of pain and inflammation. I'll try it for resveratrol....

DMSO may have some effect on slee. In rats "DMSO 15% increased mean episode duration of light slow wave sleep (SWS), decreasing mean episode duration of deep SWS and of quiet wake (QW). " Paper HERE

Okay, I read the paper. Please help me out.

DMSO 20% increased light SWS enhancing number of episodes, while decreased deep SWS mean episode duration. EEG power spectra of sigma and delta activity were also affected by DMSO. Therefore, DMSO at 15% and 20% affects sleep architecture in rats, increasing light SWS and reducing deep SWS.

Does this mean you stay in a light sleep stage longer than is normal or fall into a light sleep more readily, and the deep sleep stage is cut short?
I'm sorry I have a really hard time understanding scientific explanations.
Since I am using 70% DMSO, I would assume it would make this even more pronounced.
I actually did notice I fell asleep really fast.

Light slow wave sleep is the stage of sleep where memory formation takes place. If I recall, the hippocampus transfers short term memories to the cortex where they are more permanently encoded.
It also appears the rats were more active; less quiet wake state.
Better than Ambien?

Did you obtain the whole paper, or just the abstract?

The abstract.
I never took a sleep aid except for Excedrin PM once.

Edited by malbecman, 30 November 2007 - 04:56 PM.

[missminni]

Wow, I missed a lot on this thread since yesterday evening.

Maxwatt is correct, the theoretical blood level I calculated is just that; a theoretical maximum concentration which would quickly be distributed throughout the body and metabolized by the liver. Still, the peak serum level is what many of us have been seeking since that should more readily find there way into the nucleus of cells, bind and activate the sirtuin genes. Missminni-think of it as a concentration gradient; Since resveratrol is so rapidly metabolized and cleared and a relatively poor sirtuin activator, you need a higher concentration in your blood to get into your cells and activate the genes.

Funny, I used to occasionally use DMSO back in my cross country running days as our coach recommended using it as a way to deliver ibuprofen/tylenol, etc, directly to your knee/shin/toe/site of pain and inflammation. I'll try it for resveratrol....

What amount would you suggest doing cutaneously. Would it still be 100mg for every 10 lbs of body weight?
Anecdotal observation:
right before going to the gym today, I did about a quarter teaspoon of Res (I am getting a scale soon so bear with me)
cutaneously with DMSO ... I made a mess too...
anyway I felt stronger than usual during my workout . In fact I was able to do something with ease
that I have been struggling with recently.

[malbecman]

Good question on what would be the proper doseage. If a 5 gram oral dose gave a measured blood level of ~2.4 uM from the paper Maxwatt referenced and a 100 mg dermal dose that I calculated gave a ~88uM dose, then you should need to really scale down your doseage. 50-100 mgs should be plenty for everyone.

I tried the DMSO, I think the spray bottle is the way to go. I just had a small bottle of it and tried to drip it onto my arm. Very messy way to go and its feels oily (DMSO is a high boiling point solvent). I sprinkled ~100mgs on it, it covered approx. 1/2 my inside forearm by the time I spread it all around. I had to drip a little more DMSO on as all the t-res did not go into solution right away and made more of a paste. Again, I think its just the messiness of my method of application. 10-15 minutes later, its all gone. Some small white powder marks at the edges of the original DMSO smear which I take to be t-resveratrol that did not get into solution but the rest of my inner forearm is clean and no signs of dermatitis (skin irritation).

edit: after another 30-45 minutes all the DMSO sheen is gone and my arm is dry. There is now just a little white residue all over my forearm where I had applied the DMSO so not all of the resveratrol apparently went in. Still, nothing like the 100mgs I applied and prolly just needs to be played around with.....

What amount would you suggest doing cutaneously. Would it still be 100mg for every 10 lbs of body weight?
Anecdotal observation:
right before going to the gym today, I did about a quarter teaspoon of Res (I am getting a scale soon so bear with me)
cutaneously with DMSO ... I made a mess too...
anyway I felt stronger than usual during my workout . In fact I was able to do something with ease
that I have been struggling with recently.

Edited by malbecman, 30 November 2007 - 07:49 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

To Sum Up:

99.9% DMSO in a small spray bottle
50-100mg 99% t-resveratrol powder


I had the impression that 99% DMSO would give someone a rash, and the dermatologist we worked with had issues mixing it into a cream. I guess I have to try it our for myself.

thanks
Anthony Loera