1084 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

Forget it. It was intended as a joke. I saw the word vagina and couldn't control myself. I have to learn how to take vaginas more seriously.

They bite when offended.

As for Kristen, I wonder who's Spitz-in-her now.

Edited by maxwatt, 16 March 2008 - 12:45 PM.

[krillin]

Forget it. It was intended as a joke. I saw the word vagina and couldn't control myself. I have to learn how to take vaginas more seriously.

They bite when offended.

I added this to my Netflix queue after reading Camille Paglia's favorable review.

[Shepard]

I added this to my Netflix queue after reading Camille Paglia's favorable review.

Wow, it's got that dude from Nip/Tuck. The guy that is undeniable proof that Michael Jackson has known a woman.

[inawe]

Forget it. It was intended as a joke. I saw the word vagina and couldn't control myself. I have to learn how to take vaginas more seriously.

They bite when offended.

I added this to my Netflix queue after reading Camille Paglia's favorable review.

Are you sure you want to watch that movie?
When Maxwatt wrote that they bite I thought it was just a figure of speech. May be he saw the movie, or better yet he produced it.

[krillin]

Are you sure you want to watch that movie?

If you don't watch it you'll never get desensitized.

[fast turtle]

So has anyone tried the rectal route? I've been kind of thinking about it, in a 5% ethanol solution. That way I get really drunk as I get really healthy administering myself chemical enemas!

I've been able to get all sorts of lipophilic things to high plasma levels through the rectal route in the past.

Edited by fast turtle, 22 March 2008 - 08:15 PM.

[niner]

So has anyone tried the rectal route? I've been kind of thinking about it, in a 5% ethanol solution. That way I get really drunk as I get really healthy administering myself chemical enemas!

I've been able to get all sorts of lipophilic things to high plasma levels through the rectal route in the past.

Resveratrol is not super lipophilic; the logP is about 3. You won't get very much resveratrol to dissolve in 5% EtOH, but you might get buzzed on it if you use enough volume. When I was seven years old, I had to have an enema at the hospital prior to an Xray. It was just me and the cute young nurse in the room at the time, and I looked up and saw this gigantic bottle of solution on the shelf with a hose coming down from it. My eyes got really big and I said "are you going to use ALL of that?" The nurse smiled and said "No, but some adults would like me to."

I never imagined I'd be able to work that story into a resveratrol thread, but this being ImmInst, I suppose it was only a matter of time.

[maxwatt]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

[Mind]

(I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Let me know when you have those ready. I would buy a couple to try out. Not too much sugar though.

[sUper GeNius]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Aren't veggie caps made of HPMC, you know, the caps not using gelatin?

[sUper GeNius]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Aren't veggie caps made of HPMC, you know, the caps not using gelatin?

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

[krillin]

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

Here's a supplier of food grade HPMC.

[sUper GeNius]

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

Here's a supplier of food grade HPMC.

What exactly is it? 4000 cps? Capsules?

[Hedgehog]

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

Here's a supplier of food grade HPMC.

What exactly is it? 4000 cps? Capsules?

HPMC comes in different viscosities. A note for people trying to make HPMC cocktails. If you add to much HPMC you are going to get a very slow release of resveratrol. The resveratrol will be more attracted to the HPMC clump than your cells.

[Hedgehog]

(I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Let me know when you have those ready. I would buy a couple to try out. Not too much sugar though.

Yes I want some as well! would be great for my long bike rides...

[Wulfe]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Hey Maxwatt.. any chance you'll share your source of HPMC powder? I did some googling around and couldn't really find any North American sources.

[sUper GeNius]

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

Here's a supplier of food grade HPMC.

What exactly is it? 4000 cps? Capsules?

HPMC comes in different viscosities. A note for people trying to make HPMC cocktails. If you add to much HPMC you are going to get a very slow release of resveratrol. The resveratrol will be more attracted to the HPMC clump than your cells.

So is it just a matter of a amount? Please elaborate.

[krillin]

This space intentionally left blank.

Edited by krillin, 29 March 2008 - 10:37 PM.

[Hedgehog]

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

Here's a supplier of food grade HPMC.

What exactly is it? 4000 cps? Capsules?

HPMC comes in different viscosities. A note for people trying to make HPMC cocktails. If you add to much HPMC you are going to get a very slow release of resveratrol. The resveratrol will be more attracted to the HPMC clump than your cells.

So is it just a matter of a amount? Please elaborate.

sorta, depends on what you want to achieve? The the higher the % w/v HPMC ratios are the slower the release of resveratrol into your body. You have Surface Area which is increased by smaller particle size and is even increased more if you can solubilize it by adding a certain ratio of HPMC/Water. Or you could go for a the slow release method by adding a lot of HPMC and cause resveratrol to be trapped inside. resveratrol doesn't like water so it will stay close to the HPMC molecules. The more HPMC molecules there are the slower the dissolution rate.

[maxwatt]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Aren't veggie caps made of HPMC, you know, the caps not using gelatin?

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

That's a bit more than double what I get it for. I have both 4000 and 05 viscosity. I prefer 05; the 4000 dissolves more slowly but it works. It just needs more stirring.

HPMC capsules don't appear to disperse resveratrol very well. I tried to simulate digestion by putting a capsule of resveratrol in a zip-lock bag filled with white vinegar. After 20 minutes the capsule had partly dissolved, releasing the resveratrol powder, but most of the capsule remained in a sticky clump. Some of the res stuck to it, most just remained undissolved. I shook the bag, not vigorously, and it didn't seem to make much difference. So even doing somersaults and jumping jacks wouldn't improve dispersion much. That's why I'm premixing it in water. I also think the vegetarian capsules are a different grade, they don't appear to be suitable for this purpose.

Chocolate looks like a winner as a delivery system. Molten chocolate dissolves resveratrol efficiently, most chocolates have a bit of lecithin for flow characteristics (HPMC should work too if it's added) and it makes it a treat to take a few grams at once. It can be made with or without sugar. A very small amount of sugar seems to bring out the innate taste of the chocolate; too much destroys it.

[sUper GeNius]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Aren't veggie caps made of HPMC, you know, the caps not using gelatin?

Here's a link. So I can simply dissolve a few of these in my t-res cocktail?

http://www.capsuline..._...3&head_id=1

That's a bit more than double what I get it for. I have both 4000 and 05 viscosity. I prefer 05; the 4000 dissolves more slowly but it works. It just needs more stirring.

HPMC capsules don't appear to disperse resveratrol very well. I tried to simulate digestion by putting a capsule of resveratrol in a zip-lock bag filled with white vinegar. After 20 minutes the capsule had partly dissolved, releasing the resveratrol powder, but most of the capsule remained in a sticky clump. Some of the res stuck to it, most just remained undissolved. I shook the bag, not vigorously, and it didn't seem to make much difference. So even doing somersaults and jumping jacks wouldn't improve dispersion much. That's why I'm premixing it in water. I also think the vegetarian capsules are a different grade, they don't appear to be suitable for this purpose.

Chocolate looks like a winner as a delivery system. Molten chocolate dissolves resveratrol efficiently, most chocolates have a bit of lecithin for flow characteristics (HPMC should work too if it's added) and it makes it a treat to take a few grams at once. It can be made with or without sugar. A very small amount of sugar seems to bring out the innate taste of the chocolate; too much destroys it.

The only concern that I have with that is the milk. Worried that milk may interfere with absorption, as it does with green tea.

[exotiq]

Use dark chocolate.

Edited by exotiq, 30 March 2008 - 01:46 AM.

[krillin]

My recollection is that we determined that casein's proline groups bind only to polyphenols with a gallate group, like ECG and EGCG and oligomers of these catechins. Resveratrol should be safe.

J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Feb 27;50(5):1184-7.
Interactions between flavonoids and proteins: effect on the total antioxidant capacity.
Arts MJ, Haenen GR, Wilms LC, Beetstra SA, Heijnen CG, Voss HP, Bast A.
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Faculty of Medicine, Maastricht University, P.O. Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. Mariken.Arts@farmaco.unimaas.nl

Flavonoids are potent antioxidants. It is also known that flavonoids bind to proteins. The effect of the interaction between tea flavonoids and proteins on the antioxidant capacity was examined. Their separate and combined antioxidant capacities were measured with the Trolox equivalent antioxidant capacity (TEAC) assay. It was observed that the antioxidant capacity of several components of green and black tea with alpha-, beta-, and kappa-casein or albumin is not additive; that is, a part of the total antioxidant capacity is masked by the interaction. This masking depends on both the protein and the flavonoid used. Components in green and black tea, which show the highest masking in combination with beta-casein, are epigallocatechin gallate and gallic acid. The results demonstrate that the matrix influences the efficacy of an antioxidant.

PMID: 11853501

J Food Sci. 2007 Apr;72(3):S230-3.
The effect of milk protein on the bioavailability of cocoa polyphenols.
Keogh JB, McInerney J, Clifton PM.
CSIRO Human Nutrition, PO Box 10041 Adelaide BC, South Australia 5000, Australia. jennifer.keogh@csiro.au

In order to determine whether milk proteins interact with cocoa polyphenols to modulate the uptake and concentration of polyphenols in plasma, 24 middle-aged men and women consumed 2 g of chocolate polyphenols, plus sugar and cocoa butter in 200 mL water, on 2 occasions. On 1 occasion, the chocolate mix contained 2.45 g of milk proteins. Blood samples were taken fasting and at regular intervals for 8 h. Catechin and epicatechins levels were measured in these samples and no differences were seen in average concentrations between the 2 treatments. Milk protein caused a slight increase in concentration at the early time points and a decrease at the later time points. In conclusion, milk powder did not influence the average concentration of polyphenols. While it slightly accelerated absorption, this is of no physiological significance.

PMID: 17995820

J Agric Food Chem. 2007 Oct 31;55(22):9235-40. Epub 2007 Sep 12.
Interactions between flavan-3-ols and poly(L-proline) studied by isothermal titration calorimetry: effect of the tannin structure.
Poncet-Legrand C, Gautier C, Cheynier V, Imberty A.
UMR1083 Sciences pour l'Knologie, INRA, Université Montpellier 1, France. celine.poncet@supagro.inra.fr

Interactions of proline-rich proteins (PRPs) with flavan-3-ols was studied using poly(L-proline) as a model protein by means of isothermal titration calorimetry (ITC). Several parameters were varied: (i) the galloylation and B-ring trihydroxylation of the flavan-3-ols (catechin, epicatechin, epicatechin gallate, and epigallocatechin gallate) and (ii) the degree of polymerization (monomers were compared to a mixture of oligomers with average degree of polymerization of 3.85). Large differences were observed between the flavan-3-ol monomers: no enthalpy change was measured when catechin and epicatechin were titrated by poly(L-proline), whereas thermodynamic parameters were determined in the case of galloylated monomers and mixture of oligomers. Stoichiometry ranged from 1 oligomer bound for each 12 proline units to 1 galloylated monomer for each 8 or 10 proline units. Association constants were in the range of 10(4)-10(5) M(-1), indicating a relatively high affinity of galloylated flavanols toward poly(L-proline), and the coexistence of both enthalpy- and entropy-driven phenomena was suggested. Finally, the binding of grape seed tannins to proteins was shown to be a cooperative process.

PMID: 17850090

[Hedgehog]

The only concern that I have with that is the milk. Worried that milk may interfere with absorption, as it does with green tea.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18351302

The interaction of trans-resveratrol (TRES) and bovine serum albumin (BSA) was investigated using fluorescence spectroscopy (FS) with Tachiya model. The binding number maximum of TRES was determined to be 8.86 at 293.15 K, 23.42 at 303.15 K and 33.94 at 313.15 K and the binding mechanism analyzed in detail. The apparent binding constants (K (a)) between TRES and BSA were 5.02 x 10(4) (293.15 K), 8.89 x 10(4) (303.15 K) and 1.60 x 10(5) L mol(-1) (313.15 K), and the binding distances ® between TRES and BSA were 2.44, 3.01, and 3.38 nm at 293.15, 303.15, and 313.15 K, respectively. The addition of TRES to BSA solution leads to the enhancement in RLS intensity, exhibiting the formation of the aggregate in solution. The negative entropy change and enthalpy change indicated that the interaction of TRES and BSA was driven mainly by van der Waals interactions and hydrogen bonds. The process of binding was a spontaneous process in which Gibbs free energy change was negative.

[maxwatt]

....

The only concern that I have with that is the milk. Worried that milk may interfere with absorption, as it does with green tea.

"Milk chocolate" is not chocolate, it's a travesty.

[maxwatt]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Hey Maxwatt.. any chance you'll share your source of HPMC powder? I did some googling around and couldn't really find any North American sources.

There are several sources of HPMC 4000, which works, but HPMC 05 is harder to find. I found HPMC 05 was easier to work with; it dissolved faster and more completely. If enough people from Imminst ask me for HPMC 05, I'll source it. Not for profit, I just want to break even. 100 grams at 25 mg a day should last you for 10 years. The price will probably be around $20.

[tintinet]

Getting back on topic, how to maximize resveratrol effectiveness.

We know form the Nature paper cited in this thread on Sirtris' NCE compounds THREAD that HPMC was consistently used in their formulations for resveratrol (SRT501) and other compounds. It acts as a dispersant allowing resveratrol to be dispersed in water, which increases absorption.

I've been taking resveratrol with lecithin to accomplish this, but it has to be pre-dissolved in ethanol or vodka to disperse, and dissolving the lecithin in water is a nuisance.

I've acquired some food grade HPMC, and find it's far superior. Very little is needed. Sirtris use 2% solutions. I added half of an eighth of a teaspoon of HPMC powder to 250 ml of water. It dissolved with vigorous stirring after about 30 seconds. I then added two grams of 98% resveratrol powder. It dispersed except for a few large crystals, and remained dispersed as a cloudy solution, not settling. I find this the most convenient and probably the most effective way to take resveratrol so far. (I'm still working on resveratrol chocolate bars.)

Hey Maxwatt.. any chance you'll share your source of HPMC powder? I did some googling around and couldn't really find any North American sources.

There are several sources of HPMC 4000, which works, but HPMC 05 is harder to find. I found HPMC 05 was easier to work with; it dissolved faster and more completely. If enough people from Imminst ask me for HPMC 05, I'll source it. Not for profit, I just want to break even. 100 grams at 25 mg a day should last you for 10 years. The price will probably be around $20.

I'm in, for kicks, at least. Chocolate has more appeal, though!

[Anthony_Loera]

I think a viscosity of 50 may be better...

just my 2 cents...
Anthony

[shadowrun]

I'm imagining the taste of Resv mixed with pure Cocoa powder...(gags)

I think I can handle it...I'll try it in a shot glass mixed with water tonight

[tintinet]

I'm imagining the taste of Resv mixed with pure Cocoa powder...(gags)

I think I can handle it...I'll try it in a shot glass mixed with water tonight

High purity resveratrol has almost no taste, IME.