1084 replies to this topic

[malbecman]

Sounds good, bixbyte, enjoy!

I tried an expirement last night

This is the cleaner I own:

http://www.goodmans....lry-cleaner.htm

This ultrasonic cleaner is more $ but, you can purchase a 500 ML beaker attachment for extra $

But back to the expirement:

I added 4 oz of carbon filtered tap water (to remove chlorine)
Mixed in 1.1 grams of miralax (approx 1/4 teap)
Stirred with a plastic spoon until the round crystals appeared to be dissolved
Turn on the ultrasonic cleaner for about 30 seconds till the crystals are fully ultrasonicated into the H2O then,
Added 1.0 grams of 99% RSV (heaping teaspoon)
and stirred with the plastic spoon until the mix almost looks like milk,
Turned on the ultrasonic cleaner for about 2 minutes.
The RSV was completely mixxed into the solution.
Cheers!

Interesting expirement?

[bixbyte]

I tried an expirement last night

This is the cleaner I own:

http://www.goodmans....lry-cleaner.htm

This ultrasonic cleaner is more $ but, you can purchase a 500 ML beaker attachment for extra $

But back to the expirement:

I added 4 oz of carbon filtered tap water (to remove chlorine)
Mixed in 1.1 grams of miralax (approx 1/4 teap)
Stirred with a plastic spoon until the round crystals appeared to be dissolved
Turn on the ultrasonic cleaner for about 30 seconds till the crystals are fully ultrasonicated into the H2O then,
Added 1.0 grams of 99% RSV (heaping teaspoon)
and stirred with the plastic spoon until the mix almost looks like milk,
Turned on the ultrasonic cleaner for about 2 minutes.
The RSV was completely mixxed into the solution.
Cheers!

Interesting expirement?

I name this Experiment

RES MILK

[lol]

[niner]

Bixybte, I've been doing this too. I find that the sonication does help break up the resveratrol particles, but not as much as I'd like to see. If I let the suspension sit for a few minutes after sonication, a lot of the resveratrol settles out, although not as much as if I just stir it without sonication. If you feel like getting quantitative, try timing how long it takes for the bulk of the particles to settle a given distance. I don't know at this point if I'm actually breaking up crystals of resveratrol, or if I'm just getting grains that are stuck together to come apart. I'm sure there's some improvement; I can tell that just by the milky look of the suspension compared to the non-sonicated version. I need to pick up some slides and coverslips and play around with the microscope some more.

[lucid]

I don't think that much is going to beat the EToH + Surfactant + Resv + H2O plan I had pictures of earlier.

The ethanol + PEG (or lectin) makes the suspension look like milk with no particles visible.
If you would rather do this with sonication here are somethings that you are missing out on:

It is unlikely that you will be able to get particles as small as with EToH.
EToH enhances sirtuin activation with Resv.
EToH in very moderate quantities enhances lifespan (5%).
EToH also gives you a nice tiny buzz. (well not really at this dose, but it may help to relax)
EToH in moderation helps cholesterol levels.

I am not sure what ratio of PEG : Resv is best. I have been doing about 1:1. Anyone know?
This site sells a product with resv:lectin @ 1:11, which seems like way too much lectin to me...

It really doesn't taste that great and I haven't had much success mixing it with juices. I'm betting a smoothie will be able to mask the flavor quite nicely, so I'm looking to try that out.

[rabagley]

How much resveratrol can you dissolve in the ethanol? Officially, the solubility is 50g/L, which means that you need 20ml (.67 oz) to dissolve one gram of resveratrol. That's the same amount of alcohol in a shot of 40% liquor.

That becomes a lot of alcohol if you want to take 2g of resveratrol daily. Or, the official solubility numbers are off.

[stephen_b]

I've been dissolving 2 g of resveratrol using a tablespoon of a 40% ethanol solution.

1 tbsp == 14.8 ml (by the way, google "ml in tablespoon" -- did you know that google does math and unit conversions?).

It seems to dissolve just fine in a tablespoon.

Stephen

[bixbyte]

Bixybte,  I've been doing this too.  I find that the sonication does help break up the resveratrol particles, but not as much as I'd like to see.  If I let the suspension sit for a few minutes after sonication, a lot of the resveratrol settles out, although not as much as if I just stir it without sonication.  If you feel like getting quantitative, try timing how long it takes for the bulk of the  particles to settle a given distance.  I don't know at this point if I'm actually breaking up crystals of resveratrol, or if I'm just getting grains that are stuck together to come apart.  I'm sure there's some improvement; I can tell that just by the milky look of the suspension compared to the non-sonicated version.  I need to pick up some slides and coverslips and play around with the microscope some more.

I've been testing high lignand Flax oil and Bioperine immediately after the Res Milk.

Also, I noticed if I bottle the Res Milk experiment in a small vitamin container with a seal, and carry it in a small bag on my person for many hours, shake every so often, the Res Milk acquires a slightly bitter taste.
Perhaps, testing a slow mag mixer for a couple hours could increase the Res Milk dissolvability?

[lucid]

How much resveratrol can you dissolve in the ethanol? Officially, the solubility is 50g/L, which means that you need 20ml (.67 oz) to dissolve one gram of resveratrol. That's the same amount of alcohol in a shot of 40% liquor.

That becomes a lot of alcohol if you want to take 2g of resveratrol daily. Or, the official solubility numbers are off.

I use about 3/4 of a shot of everclear, 30 ml, to dissolve my 2g. It doesn't disolve it completely but I get about the same end result. Its 1 3/4 shots worth of 40% liquer. (which is one shot for someone my size) This is about the amount that I would take to keep the 'one shot' in me at all times. Studies show keeping one shot in you is money, but moving up to three shots is no good.

As to the mixing problem, I mixed it last night in a blueberry pomegranate juice (the bottle said that but of course its mostly apple juice) and it tasted all right. I think that the problem before was that I had been mixing it with unsweetened concentrates of cranberry and pomegranate which hadn't been working out.

[rabagley]

I would also be curious to know about the stability of resveratrol in solution (both oxidation and isomerization stability). Recent discussions on this site indicate that an acidic solution would favor conversion to the trans isomer and basic chemistry leads me to believe that the right acid could also limit or reverse oxidation.

If so, perhaps some ascorbic or malic acid in your everclear might offer some protection or enhancement for the trans-resveratrol without adversely affecting the solubility or flavor of the resulting concoctions.

(added malic acid)

[bixbyte]

I would also be curious to know about the stability of resveratrol in solution (both oxidation and isomerization stability).  Recent discussions on this site indicate that an acidic solution would favor conversion to the trans isomer and basic chemistry leads me to believe that the right acid could also limit or reverse oxidation. 

If so, perhaps some ascorbic or malic acid in your everclear might offer some protection or enhancement for the trans-resveratrol without adversely affecting the solubility or flavor of the resulting concoctions.

(added malic acid)

Interesting you should mention Malic Acid. This is also good source of Magnesium supplementation.
I've been taking 416 mg of Malic Acid in the am for over 4 years now.
Only problem with MA is it appears to dehydrate and thus cause frequent urination.
So, if I am planning a long trip take the MA afterwards.

I hear grapefruit juice, also, will help in maximizing RSV effectiveness.

[rabagley]

I've been dissolving 2 g of resveratrol using a tablespoon of a 40% ethanol solution.

That's astonishing. My expectation would be that vodka (40% ethanol 60% water) would dissolve less resveratrol than 96% ethanol. But assuming your example (2g/15ml) is near the limit of solubility, that's already 133g/L, or 2 2/3 times the solubility of resveratrol in 96% ethanol. If there's more solubility left...

In fact, I'm going to try to replicate that tonight. If I can, that's how I'll start dosing it for myself. That changes the amount of alcohol needed to dissolve a daily 2g dose from problematic to completely reasonable.

(corrected unit conversion error)

[rabagley]

Okay, I tested mixing 1g resveratrol into 1 tablespoon vodka. No noticeable dissolution occured, but it did make a decent and rapid sludge, or "res milk". Much faster than trying to mix resveratrol directly into juice.

So, a small amount of vodka may be a useful way to get the powder distributed into an easy to consume drink, but it doesn't look like it affects particle size.

[stephen_b]

I'm probably not using the word dissolve the way a chemist would. It does make a slurry (maybe two tablespoons would be better) that seems to me to make the particles stick together less.

Stephen

[niner]

Lucid's recent post motivated me to try his method. I measured 30ml of 95.5% EtOH (Everclear) and dissolved approximately 2g resveratrol (99%, synthetic) into it. It all went in easily. I say approximately because the precision of my scale is not very good. I then stirred it into a solution of 2g Miralax in ~4oz cold water. A white precipitate formed immediately. I then covered the glass and let it sit for 15 minutes to see how much settling occurred. The result was that almost no noticeable settling occurred. In comparison, if I sonicate a suspension of resveratrol in Miralax for 15 minutes, then let it sit, I see significant settling in about 3 minutes. My conclusion here is:

1: The particle size of the resveratrol from this method is smaller than from sonication. (in less time, also)

2: The solubility of resveratrol in 95.5% ethanol appears to be higher than 50mg/ml, but my measurements are hampered by a jive scale.

3: This is enough alcohol to give me a buzz, but I wasn't hammered...

[bentl]

I found that 8 ml of EtOH was enough to get 2g res to produce a milky solution that would readily mix with water, peg water, or juice. I am trying to minimize the EtOH because I just don't want to consume that much EtOH on a daily basis. I am not trying to completely dissolve (produces a clear solution) because someone on the list said that it will come out of solution anyway as soon as it hits the stomach.

[hormesis]

Dissolving Resveratrol in Heated Everclear:

I briefly microwaved 10g of Everclear and when the temperature was probably around 110F I was able to get 1g of a fine particle 99%+ resveratrol (Wakfer's batch) to go completely into solution in it.

1.5g of resveratrol produced a milky suspension.

I'm going to do some more experiments to find out where the solubility limit is in that 100-150mg/g-alcohol range.

I'll also try refrigerating the res/alcohol mix to see if (and how) the resveratrol precipitates out.

Does anyone know if there are any dangers of altering trans-resveratrol by dissolving it in alcohol at some specific sub-boiling temperature?

[stephen_b]

I can suggest another experiment: try mixing 15 ml (a tablespoon) of 100% ethanol (or about 30 ml of vodka) with 2g resveratrol. After stirring, mix in about 100 ml water and let sit. I'm thinking that the amount that settles will be small.

Stephen

[niner]

I am not trying to completely dissolve (produces a clear solution) because someone on the list said that it will come out of solution anyway as soon as it hits the stomach.

That's true, if the resveratrol is in solution in alcohol. What people are trying to do by going from alcoholic solution into water is to create a suspension with a very small particle size. If you don't have enough alcohol to dissolve the resveratrol, then you may not get as small a particle size as you want. I don't really want to drink a lot of alcohol every day either.

[hormesis]

That's true, if the resveratrol is in solution in alcohol.  What people are trying to do by going from alcoholic solution into water is to create a suspension with a very small particle size.  If you don't have enough alcohol to dissolve the resveratrol, then you may not get as small a particle size as you want.  I don't really want to drink a lot of alcohol every day either.

That's true, but I think the main reason for going the alcohol route is to hopefully microencapsulate the resveratrol when the res/alc mix is dumped into a blender of lecithin water (see SIRT501 patent for something similar). If you just want to get the resveratrol in suspension, you probably need far less alcohol if any.

[niner]

Well, yeah, but the encapsulation is going to work a lot better with a small particle size. Being in suspension is just an indicator of small particle size.

[maxwatt]

I found out this weekend that resveratrol dissolves in whole milk. This should result in particle size on the molecular level, and the milk-fat will act as a carrier, getting more resveratrol the the cells in the manner of surfactants such as lecithin or PEG3350, which many here prefer as a method of administration for bio-availability.

It also worked with chocolate milk, combining the benefits of cocoa and resveratrol.

There was no powder residue in the glass, as I've found with incompletely dissolved resveratrol mixed in water or alcohol, even with lecithin.

While excessive milk consumption is not good for most adults, two or three ounces daily should present little risk.

Edited by maxwatt, 05 November 2007 - 02:36 AM.

[tintinet]

Great marketing idea: Trans-resveratrol enriched Chocolate Milk, Cafe Au Lait, Mocha Frappe, etc.?

[lucid]

It also worked with chocolate milk, combining the benefits of cocoa and resveratrol.

Mix a little vodka in with the cocoa, resveratrol, and wholemilk; and you have an immortal white russian with a heavy sun tan.

Tried it with 1% a few minutes ago and it seemed to work moderately well, ill give it a shot tomorrow with 2% or whole.

[niner]

Is it possible that the resveratrol is getting bound by milk proteins? There's a history of milk interfering with other phenolics, like compounds in tea.

[maxwatt]

Is it possible that the resveratrol is getting bound by milk proteins?  There's a history of milk interfering with other phenolics, like compounds in tea.

Maybe, more likely not.

The Effect of Milk Protein on the Bioavailability of Cocoa Polyphenols

J.B. Keogh, J. McInerney, and P.M. Clifton

ABSTRACT: In order to determine whether milk proteins interact with cocoa polyphenols to modulate the uptake and concentration of polyphenols in plasma, 24 middle-aged men and women consumed 2 g of chocolate polyphenols, plus sugar and cocoa butter in 200 mL water, on 2 occasions. On 1 occasion, the chocolate mix contained 2.45 g of milk proteins. Blood samples were taken fasting and at regular intervals for 8 h. Catechin and epicatechins levels were measured in these samples and no differences were seen in average concentrations between the 2 treatments. Milk protein caused a slight increase in concentration at the early time points and a decrease at the later time points. In conclusion, milk powder did not influence the average concentration of polyphenols. While it slightly accelerated absorption, this is of no physiological significance.

[VP.]

I found out this weekend that resveratrol dissolves in whole milk.  This should result in particle size on the molecular level, and the milk-fat will act as a carrier, getting more resveratrol the the cells in the manner of surfactants such as lecithin or PEG3350, which many here prefer as a  method of administration for bio-availability.

It also worked with chocolate milk, combining the benefits of cocoa and resveratrol.

There was no powder residue in the glass, as I've found with incompletely dissolved resveratrol mixed in water or alcohol, even with lecithin.

While excessive milk consumption is not good for most adults, two or three ounces daily should present little risk.

Great find Maxwatt! I found it works better then Mirilax for dissolving resveratrol, leaving only a slight residue. I have no idea why it works though. I'll try it with cocoa powder tomorrow.

[rabagley]

The protein in milk that usually causes the problem is casein. Not that I know if it would cause any issues here. We'll let maxwatt's toes tell us if the milk is interfering with the resveratrol.

That's an amazing little science experiment you have in your feet there maxwatt. There's some strange part of me that almost wants a case of arthritis so that I can do efficacy tests myself. Almost.

[rwoodin]

I usually make a 'breakfast shake' containing 2 scoops (~35g) whey protein, 5g creatine, tblspoon of metamucil (psyillium fiber), ~500mg quercetin and anywhere from .5g-5g resveratrol. I'll start mixing in some milk when I'm home...to much hassle to do that at work all the time...I'm hoping the whey protein mix has been helping with the absorption of the tres as I'm pretty sure there is lethicin in it for mixability. I also thought that creatine helps move water into muscle cells so maybe it helps move tres in there too? I take the fiber for digestive regularity. I'm hoping that does not detract from absorption by holding on to the tres and flushing through the intestines without allowing for absorption. Any comments, tweeks or critiques to this mix would be appreciated. I think the milk discovery is great! The best solutions to problems are usually the simple ones... when they are finally discovered. Kudos to maxwatt.

[rabagley]

The Quercetin in your concoction may be inhibiting SIRT1. More specifically, the primary glucorination metabolite of Quercetin seems to inhibit SIRT1. Resveratrol does a lot more than just activate SIRT1, but in theory, the big reason most of us are taking resveratrol is to mimic CR by activating SIRT1.

As to your fiber and absorption question, the unscientific consensus here is to try to get as much t-res into the bloodstream as quickly as possible. Empty stomach, large dose, small particles. So putting it into the breakfast shake seems to rule out the empty stomach part of that.

[yucca06]

Maybe could you rename this discussion into "The ultimate alcoholic thread", or "How to become an alcoholic for dummies" ?