1084 replies to this topic

[drmz]

So, in a nutshell, it's a waiste of money to take 300 mg trans-res every day without using the techniques described in this topic ?


note with the PEG it seems to be a waiste as well ??

Because resveratrol is so extensively metabolized in the gut before it even has a chance to reach the bloodstream (see the other sidebar), it’s tempting to think that one might improve its bioavailability by bypassing the digestive tract in favor of a more direct route to the blood. Indeed, such a route is available through the use of PEGylated liposomes, which are manmade cells that encapsulate drugs or nutritional supplements so that they can be delivered to the blood without interference from agents that might alter them. Formulated as a liquid suspension, the liposomes can easily be absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth. (For a discussion of the advantages of delivering nutrients in this novel way, see “Better Supplementation with PEGylated Liposomes” on page 4 of this issue.)
Because this technique promises good delivery of free (unmetabolized) resveratrol to the blood, it can produce higher blood levels of resveratrol—briefly. The problem here, though, is that the liver will still rapidly metabolize the resveratrol as soon as it’s released by the liposomes, as indicated by a study that compared oral and intravenous delivery of resveratrol to human subjects.1 With oral delivery, no free resveratrol was detectable in the blood at any time (its metabolites were readily detectable, however); with IV delivery, there were measurable levels initially, but they dropped quickly and were gone after half an hour

Edited by drmz, 14 November 2007 - 03:11 PM.

[stephen_b]

maxwatt, can we get you to do a trial using cod liver oil as your resveratrol solution?

Stephen

[maxwatt]

maxwatt, can we get you to do a trial using cod liver oil as your resveratrol solution?

Stephen

No.

[missminni]

RE: resveratrol in alcohol

Can Jack Daniels be used?
If so
Should it be dissolved in Jack first
or put powder in mouth and then drink Jack?

[stephen_b]

missminni, I've put in a tablespoon or two of vodka and scooped the resveratrol into that -- much easier than trying to mix it in your mouth.

Stephen

[missminni]

missminni, I've put in a tablespoon or two of vodka and scooped the resveratrol into that -- much easier than trying to mix it in your mouth.

Stephen

thanks.
do you let it sit for a few minutes before swallowing to get a sublingual absorption?

[missminni]

So, in a nutshell, it's a waiste of money to take 300 mg trans-res every day without using the techniques described in this topic ?


note with the PEG it seems to be a waiste as well ??

Because resveratrol is so extensively metabolized in the gut before it even has a chance to reach the bloodstream (see the other sidebar), it’s tempting to think that one might improve its bioavailability by bypassing the digestive tract in favor of a more direct route to the blood. Indeed, such a route is available through the use of PEGylated liposomes, which are manmade cells that encapsulate drugs or nutritional supplements so that they can be delivered to the blood without interference from agents that might alter them. Formulated as a liquid suspension, the liposomes can easily be absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth. (For a discussion of the advantages of delivering nutrients in this novel way, see “Better Supplementation with PEGylated Liposomes” on page 4 of this issue.)
Because this technique promises good delivery of free (unmetabolized) resveratrol to the blood, it can produce higher blood levels of resveratrol—briefly. The problem here, though, is that the liver will still rapidly metabolize the resveratrol as soon as it’s released by the liposomes, as indicated by a study that compared oral and intravenous delivery of resveratrol to human subjects.1 With oral delivery, no free resveratrol was detectable in the blood at any time (its metabolites were readily detectable, however); with IV delivery, there were measurable levels initially, but they dropped quickly and were gone after half an hour

Is this now the consensus of opinion? That resveratrol is a waste of money? What about the positive results Max Watt's toe had?
Was that psychsomatic?
ETA~
In Sinclair's experiment, they just fed the rats/mice/worms resveratrol without any added enhancers...is that correct? And they had the positive results of prolonged life. Correct?
If I am making some foolish assumption here, please tell me. How much actual resveratrol was found in the blood of the test subjects? Forgive me is this is something that has
been discussed, but I have a hard time reading/understanding technical data. What I am trying to say is that perhaps the resveratrol does not necessarily
have to show up in the bloodstream in order to have a positive impact on the body. I just ordered a years supply for my Dad. I would hate to think I just threw out all that money.
Anthony, are you reading?

Edited by missminni, 15 November 2007 - 09:17 PM.

[browser]

So, in a nutshell, it's a waiste of money to take 300 mg trans-res every day without using the techniques described in this topic ?


note with the PEG it seems to be a waiste as well ??

Because resveratrol is so extensively metabolized in the gut before it even has a chance to reach the bloodstream (see the other sidebar), it’s tempting to think that one might improve its bioavailability by bypassing the digestive tract in favor of a more direct route to the blood. Indeed, such a route is available through the use of PEGylated liposomes, which are manmade cells that encapsulate drugs or nutritional supplements so that they can be delivered to the blood without interference from agents that might alter them. Formulated as a liquid suspension, the liposomes can easily be absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth. (For a discussion of the advantages of delivering nutrients in this novel way, see “Better Supplementation with PEGylated Liposomes” on page 4 of this issue.)
Because this technique promises good delivery of free (unmetabolized) resveratrol to the blood, it can produce higher blood levels of resveratrol—briefly. The problem here, though, is that the liver will still rapidly metabolize the resveratrol as soon as it’s released by the liposomes, as indicated by a study that compared oral and intravenous delivery of resveratrol to human subjects.1 With oral delivery, no free resveratrol was detectable in the blood at any time (its metabolites were readily detectable, however); with IV delivery, there were measurable levels initially, but they dropped quickly and were gone after half an hour

Is this now the consensus of opinion? That resveratrol is a waste of money? What about the positive results Max Watt's toe had?
Was that psychsomatic?
ETA~
In Sinclair's experiment, they just fed the rats/mice/worms resveratrol without any added enhancers...is that correct? And they had the positive results of prolonged life. Correct?
If I am making some foolish assumption here, please tell me. How much actual resveratrol was found in the blood of the test subjects? Forgive me is this is something that has
been discussed, but I have a hard time reading/understanding technical data. What I am trying to say is that perhaps the resveratrol does not necessarily
have to show up in the bloodstream in order to have a positive impact on the body. I just ordered a years supply for my Dad. I would hate to think I just threw out all that money.
Anthony, are you reading?

We have cured baldness in rats many times, doubled the life span of fruit flies and yeast, cured cancers in rats. But rats/mice/worms aren't humans. Yes, we have a very small number of human trials Yet the debate goes on about how much, how to provide it, how much to take. Frankly, we're still floundering for answers on something which might not be an answer for humans. I'm not down on resveratrol, I've just seen all the many rat experiments, including the one done by a company in Colorado which ran a pump and dump on a supplement which was supposed to raise levels of anti-oxidants produced by our bodies. Many drugs show great promise, yet the FDA has the lowest approval rate of new drugs this year than in a long time. Then there are the drugs which get approved, kill a bunch of people then get taken off the market. Resv may just not be a winner for humans, despite all of our hopes.

[maxwatt]

So, in a nutshell, it's a waiste of money to take 300 mg trans-res every day without using the techniques described in this topic ?


note with the PEG it seems to be a waiste as well ??

Because resveratrol is so extensively metabolized in the gut before it even has a chance to reach the bloodstream (see the other sidebar), it’s tempting to think that one might improve its bioavailability by bypassing the digestive tract in favor of a more direct route to the blood. Indeed, such a route is available through the use of PEGylated liposomes, which are manmade cells that encapsulate drugs or nutritional supplements so that they can be delivered to the blood without interference from agents that might alter them. Formulated as a liquid suspension, the liposomes can easily be absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth. (For a discussion of the advantages of delivering nutrients in this novel way, see “Better Supplementation with PEGylated Liposomes” on page 4 of this issue.)
Because this technique promises good delivery of free (unmetabolized) resveratrol to the blood, it can produce higher blood levels of resveratrol—briefly. The problem here, though, is that the liver will still rapidly metabolize the resveratrol as soon as it’s released by the liposomes, as indicated by a study that compared oral and intravenous delivery of resveratrol to human subjects.1 With oral delivery, no free resveratrol was detectable in the blood at any time (its metabolites were readily detectable, however); with IV delivery, there were measurable levels initially, but they dropped quickly and were gone after half an hour

Is this now the consensus of opinion? That resveratrol is a waste of money? What about the positive results Max Watt's toe had?
Was that psychsomatic?
ETA~
In Sinclair's experiment, they just fed the rats/mice/worms resveratrol without any added enhancers...is that correct? And they had the positive results of prolonged life. Correct?
If I am making some foolish assumption here, please tell me. How much actual resveratrol was found in the blood of the test subjects? Forgive me is this is something that has
been discussed, but I have a hard time reading/understanding technical data. What I am trying to say is that perhaps the resveratrol does not necessarily
have to show up in the bloodstream in order to have a positive impact on the body. I just ordered a years supply for my Dad. I would hate to think I just threw out all that money.
Anthony, are you reading?

No, that is not the consensus. That is one man's frustration at his own confusion, being unable to sort out the progression of ideas that has been presented here, or distinguish the misinformation some post here and elsewhere. Hopefully the soon-to-be-implemented poster-rating-system will one day help readers sort things out.

The consensus here among the more technically inclined is that the most effective way to use resveratrol is with a surfactant (lecithin or Miralax) and the smallest particle size possible. Micronized is preferred, but some of the 98%+ powders have sufficiently fine particles that the method should work. The use of ethanol to dissolve resveratrol before adding lecithin obviates the need to micronize the powder. This emulates what we believe is Sirtris' method with their formulation, as we have inferred from their patents and various reportage that has leaked from their lab.

The other issue is bioavailability once ingested, and whether a sufficiently high level is attained to have any effect. Here things are murkier, but not hopeless. Measurable serum levels are attained in humans. These have not been so high as the amount needed to kill certain cancer cells in a test tube, but may be high enough to activate sirtuins in at least some cells in the body. This is complicated by the fact that there may be an active transport mechanism in humans via blood cells. Some here are seeking to increase the amount of resveratrol to reach the bloodstream with various polyphenols (quercetin, piperine, at al., but note that Sirris do net seem to be doing this (no formulation patents.) I don't think it is necessary, and its effectiveness is unknown.

I believe there is evidence of activation in humans for the following reasons:

-Sirtuin activation inhibits nf-Kappa P.
-Inhibition of nf-Kappa P reduces inflammation.
-nf-Kapa P is a main cause of inflammation in arthritis
-I have observed alleviation and reversal of arthritis symptoms in a manner superior to any NSAID in myself, and others, in addition to reports from a doctore who is working with it. (500 mg daily or more needed for this effect, no surfactant used, and no polyphenol coadministration, though surfactant use seemed ti increase the effective resveratrol dose.)

Though resveratrol is a COX-2 inhibitor, the effect was not immediate, as with other COX-2 inhibitors, but took several days before major (and dramatic) improvement occurred.

I think the chances of resveratrol doing some good are far better than injecting oneself in the butt with some questionable animal extract.

Welcome to the real world. It's messy. If you want certainty, go elsewhere.

[missminni]

Max Watt
Thanks. I know its a messy world and I am not looking for certainty.
That's a useless endeavor. Just a little understanding...as I said, I don't decipher
technical explanations well so thanks for simplifying it.
just a couple more questions:
Do you find res more effective than glucosamine for arthritis?
Have you had other positive results that you attribute to the resveratrol.
TIA

[maxwatt]

Max Watt
Thanks. I know its a messy world and I am not looking for certainty.
That's a useless endeavor. Just a little understanding...as I said, I don't decipher
technical explanations well so thanks for simplifying it.
just a couple more questions:
Do you find res more effective than glucosamine for arthritis?
Have you had other positive results that you attribute to the resveratrol.
TIA

I wasn't referring to you, specifically, but more to the forlorn quality of the post you were responding to.
I found glucosamine to be useless for me, as was MSM.
I have more endurance, measurable on a bicycle ergonometer. I am less sensitive to cold, less bothered by heat. I've had only one cold in a year, since I began taking resveratrol Most years I get two or three. Also my blood lipids improved after four months. (I should remeasure soon.) No change in fasting blood glucose. My hair is still flecked with gray, and I still have wrinkles.

[missminni]

Max Watt
Thanks. I know its a messy world and I am not looking for certainty.
That's a useless endeavor. Just a little understanding...as I said, I don't decipher
technical explanations well so thanks for simplifying it.
just a couple more questions:
Do you find res more effective than glucosamine for arthritis?
Have you had other positive results that you attribute to the resveratrol.
TIA

I wasn't referring to you, specifically, but more to the forlorn quality of the post you were responding to.
I found glucosamine to be useless for me, as was MSM.
I have more endurance, measurable on a bicycle ergonometer. I am less sensitive to cold, less bothered by heat. I've had only one cold in a year, since I began taking resveratrol Most years I get two or three. Also my blood lipids improved after four months. (I should remeasure soon.) No change in fasting blood glucose. My hair is still flecked with gray, and I still have wrinkles.

That's great news about being better than glucosamine - my dad's on glucosamine now and
it helps a bit but not to where he can walk too far or be on his feet too long. He can get from the car to the supermarket but then he needs to lean on the
shopping cart for support. He couldn't continue to walk otherwise. I hope resveratrol makes a difference.

[lucid]

I have more endurance, measurable on a bicycle ergonometer. I am less sensitive to cold, less bothered by heat. I've had only one cold in a year, since I began taking resveratrol Most years I get two or three. Also my blood lipids improved after four months.

I have had quite a few colds (I had strep throat, and then a cold for 2 weeks, it sucked) since being on resv (and I rarely get sick). Since I have started taking 2,000 UI D3 which has things undercontrol. I was worried that resveratrol was acting as an immunesuppressent, but it might have been unrelated.

Here is a study on immune suppression effects of Resv:

Clin Exp Immunol. 2007 Jan;147(1):155-63.
Resveratrol and curcumin suppress immune response through CD28/CTLA-4 and CD80 co-stimulatory pathway.
Sharma S, Chopra K, Kulkarni SK, Agrewala JN.

    Immunology Laboratory, Institute of Microbial Technology, Chandigarh, India.
The role of resveratrol and curcumin is well documented in cancer, inflammation, diabetes and various other diseases. However, their immunosuppressive action on T cells, B cells and macrophages is not well documented. In the present study, we have ascertained the effect of resveratrol and curcumin on T and B cells and macrophages. The most striking findings were that both resveratrol and curcumin suppressed the activity of T and B cells and macrophages, as evidenced by significant inhibition in proliferation, antibody production and lymphokine secretion. Interestingly, curcumin imparted immunosuppression by mainly down-regulating the expression of CD28 and CD80 and up-regulating CTLA-4. Resveratrol also functioned by decreasing the expression of CD28 and CD80, as well as by augmenting the production of interleukin (IL)-10.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

Edited by lucid, 16 November 2007 - 02:23 AM.

[VP.]

Grape Powder Blocks Genes Linked To Colon Cancer

ScienceDaily (Nov. 15, 2007) — Low doses of freeze-dried grape powder inhibit genes linked to the development of sporadic colorectal cancer, University of California, Irvine cancer researchers found.

The study suggests that a diet rich in grapes may help prevent the third most common form of cancer, one that kills more than a half a million people worldwide each year. Around 7 percent of all Americans develop colon cancer during their lifetimes.

Led by Dr. Randall Holcombe, director of clinical research at the Chao Family Comprehensive Cancer Center at UC Irvine, the study followed up on previous in vitro studies showing that resveratrol, a nutritional supplement derived from grape extract, blocks a cellular signaling pathway known as the Wnt pathway. The Wnt pathway has been linked to more than 85 percent of sporadic colon cancers, which is the most common form of colon cancer.
The UC Irvine researchers conducted their study with colon cancer patients. One group was given 20 milligrams daily of resveratrol as a pill; another drank 120 grams daily of grape powder mixed in water; and a third drank 80 grams daily of grape powder.
While the supplements did not have an impact on existing tumors, biopsied colon tissue showed that Wnt signaling in the patients taking 80 grams of grape powder was significantly reduced. Similar changes were not seen in patients taking the higher dose of grape powder or the resveratrol pills.

The researchers aren’t certain why the lower dose of grape powder was more effective than the higher one. However, they believe that the active components in the grapes may have different effects at low dose than they do at high dose, which is a fairly common finding in nutritional studies.

Holcombe and his colleagues will present their study results Nov. 16 at the Society for Integrative Oncology’s Fourth International Conference in San Francisco.

“This is truly exciting, because it suggests that substances in grapes can block a key intracellular signaling pathway involved in the development of colon cancer before a tumor develops,” said Holcombe.

The resveratrol chemical is found naturally in grape skins, wine and also in peanuts. It is unclear why resveratrol alone was not as effective, but Holcombe believes that other grape chemicals may supplement or boost resveratrol’s efficacy.
Eighty grams of grape powder equal a half glass of wine or 1 pound of grapes, which is equivalent to three dietary servings of grapes, according to the USDA. Holcombe and his colleagues are currently designing a clinical cancer prevention study to see how a daily diet of 1 pound of grapes affects Wnt signaling.

This study follows an epidemiological survey by Holcombe, Dr. Jason Zell, assistant clinical professor of medicine at UC Irvine, and Dr. Hoda Anton-Culver, chair of epidemiology and director of UC Irvine’s Cancer Surveillance Program. In this study of 499 colorectal cancer patients, they found that moderate wine consumption before developing colon cancer was associated with improved survival outcomes among those patients with family history of colorectal cancer.

The researchers found that 75 percent of such patients were alive after 10 years of initial diagnosis, compared to 47 percent of such patients who did not regularly drink wine. Study results appeared in the October 2007 issue of Nutrition and Cancer.

“Our epidemiologic study suggests that wine consumption may influence survival among a subset of colorectal cancer patients, specifically those with family history of the disease,” Zell said. “These findings could reflect unique genetic and environmental interactions among familial colorectal cancer patients, but further studies are needed to test this theory. Studies such as Dr. Holcombe’s with grape powder extract and resveratrol are important as they offer potential explanations for our findings.”

Holcombe said researchers have known for a long time that there is a link between diet and cancer. “These findings suggest that we should do additional research and clinical studies on grapes and other natural products that may prove effective in helping to prevent cancer,” he said.

The grape study received support from the California Table Grape Commission and the UCLA Bionutrition Unit. The authors declare no financial interest or conflicts of interest.

Adapted from materials provided by University of California - Irvine.

20 mg of resveratrol in a pill once a day is a joke but it does hint that resveratrol mixed with grape extracts might be useful.

[missminni]

20 mg of resveratrol in a pill once a day is a joke but it does hint that resveratrol mixed with grape extracts might be useful.

Maybe higher doses of resveratrol would have been more effective.
Maybe, since it was sponsored by the California Table Grape Commission, they wanted the the grapes to win.

Edited by missminni, 16 November 2007 - 07:17 AM.

[missminni]

I have more endurance, measurable on a bicycle ergonometer. I am less sensitive to cold, less bothered by heat. I've had only one cold in a year, since I began taking resveratrol Most years I get two or three. Also my blood lipids improved after four months.

I have had quite a few colds (I had strep throat, and then a cold for 2 weeks, it sucked) since being on resv (and I rarely get sick). Since I have started taking 2,000 UI D3 which has things undercontrol. I was worried that resveratrol was acting as an immunesuppressent, but it might have been unrelated.

Have you had any positive results from taking resveratrol?
How much are you taking?
Has anybody else noticed a lower resistance?

Edited by missminni, 16 November 2007 - 07:20 AM.

[katzenjammer]

No, that is not the consensus.  That is one man's frustration at his own confusion, being unable to sort out the progression of ideas that has been presented here, or distinguish the misinformation some post here and elsewhere.  Hopefully the soon-to-be-implemented poster-rating-system will one day help readers sort things out.......Welcome to the real world.  It's messy.  If you want certainty, go elsewhere.

Maxwatt, great post. Thank you muchly for it. ~katz

[drmz]

So, in a nutshell, it's a waiste of money to take 300 mg trans-res every day without using the techniques described in this topic ?


note with the PEG it seems to be a waiste as well ??

Because resveratrol is so extensively metabolized in the gut before it even has a chance to reach the bloodstream (see the other sidebar), it’s tempting to think that one might improve its bioavailability by bypassing the digestive tract in favor of a more direct route to the blood. Indeed, such a route is available through the use of PEGylated liposomes, which are manmade cells that encapsulate drugs or nutritional supplements so that they can be delivered to the blood without interference from agents that might alter them. Formulated as a liquid suspension, the liposomes can easily be absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth. (For a discussion of the advantages of delivering nutrients in this novel way, see “Better Supplementation with PEGylated Liposomes” on page 4 of this issue.)
Because this technique promises good delivery of free (unmetabolized) resveratrol to the blood, it can produce higher blood levels of resveratrol—briefly. The problem here, though, is that the liver will still rapidly metabolize the resveratrol as soon as it’s released by the liposomes, as indicated by a study that compared oral and intravenous delivery of resveratrol to human subjects.1 With oral delivery, no free resveratrol was detectable in the blood at any time (its metabolites were readily detectable, however); with IV delivery, there were measurable levels initially, but they dropped quickly and were gone after half an hour

Is this now the consensus of opinion? That resveratrol is a waste of money? What about the positive results Max Watt's toe had?
Was that psychsomatic?
ETA~
In Sinclair's experiment, they just fed the rats/mice/worms resveratrol without any added enhancers...is that correct? And they had the positive results of prolonged life. Correct?
If I am making some foolish assumption here, please tell me. How much actual resveratrol was found in the blood of the test subjects? Forgive me is this is something that has
been discussed, but I have a hard time reading/understanding technical data. What I am trying to say is that perhaps the resveratrol does not necessarily
have to show up in the bloodstream in order to have a positive impact on the body. I just ordered a years supply for my Dad. I would hate to think I just threw out all that money.
Anthony, are you reading?

No, that is not the consensus. That is one man's frustration at his own confusion, being unable to sort out the progression of ideas that has been presented here, or distinguish the misinformation some post here and elsewhere. Hopefully the soon-to-be-implemented poster-rating-system will one day help readers sort things out.

The consensus here among the more technically inclined is that the most effective way to use resveratrol is with a surfactant (lecithin or Miralax) and the smallest particle size possible. Micronized is preferred, but some of the 98%+ powders have sufficiently fine particles that the method should work. The use of ethanol to dissolve resveratrol before adding lecithin obviates the need to micronize the powder. This emulates what we believe is Sirtris' method with their formulation, as we have inferred from their patents and various reportage that has leaked from their lab.

The other issue is bioavailability once ingested, and whether a sufficiently high level is attained to have any effect. Here things are murkier, but not hopeless. Measurable serum levels are attained in humans. These have not been so high as the amount needed to kill certain cancer cells in a test tube, but may be high enough to activate sirtuins in at least some cells in the body. This is complicated by the fact that there may be an active transport mechanism in humans via blood cells. Some here are seeking to increase the amount of resveratrol to reach the bloodstream with various polyphenols (quercetin, piperine, at al., but note that Sirris do net seem to be doing this (no formulation patents.) I don't think it is necessary, and its effectiveness is unknown.

I believe there is evidence of activation in humans for the following reasons:

-Sirtuin activation inhibits nf-Kappa P.
-Inhibition of nf-Kappa P reduces inflammation.
-nf-Kapa P is a main cause of inflammation in arthritis
-I have observed alleviation and reversal of arthritis symptoms in a manner superior to any NSAID in myself, and others, in addition to reports from a doctore who is working with it. (500 mg daily or more needed for this effect, no surfactant used, and no polyphenol coadministration, though surfactant use seemed ti increase the effective resveratrol dose.)

Though resveratrol is a COX-2 inhibitor, the effect was not immediate, as with other COX-2 inhibitors, but took several days before major (and dramatic) improvement occurred.

I think the chances of resveratrol doing some good are far better than injecting oneself in the butt with some questionable animal extract.

Welcome to the real world. It's messy. If you want certainty, go elsewhere.

Despite your whole post i don't understand what is not logical about assuming that taking resveratrol is a waiste of money (as it is now) because it is not bioavailable at all and if you find a way to get it in the bloodstream without interference from the liver it's gone in 30 mins. Or didn't i understand the toe effect ?

and yes, my english is bad so it's hard to put my thoughts about it in words.

[hormesis]

Despite your whole post i don't understand what is not logical about assuming that taking resveratrol is a waiste of money (as it is now) because it is not bioavailable at all and if you find a way to get it in the bloodstream without interference from the liver it's gone in 30 mins. Or didn't i understand the toe effect ?

and yes, my english is bad so it's hard to put my thoughts about it in words.

Perhaps the answers to some of your questions might be found by reading my post on sulfation and glucuronidation on page 10 of this thread. While doing so, bare in mind that beta-glucuronidase is highly upregulated in inflamed and damaged tissues (e.g. MaxWatt's toe), and on a separate note, I personally wouldn't worry about the quality of your english. I personally don't think you're having any substantial problems conveying your thoughts in this forum. If you could help us out by doing some more research on pubmed and the internet with regards to beta-glucuronidase's deglucuronidation of various glucuronidated common dietary polyphenols (particularly anything you can dig up on stilbenes and luteolin) I would be greatly interested to hear your thoughts.
Thanks a ton!

[browser]

No, that is not the consensus.  That is one man's frustration at his own confusion, being unable to sort out the progression of ideas that has been presented here, or distinguish the misinformation some post here and elsewhere.  Hopefully the soon-to-be-implemented poster-rating-system will one day help readers sort things out.......Welcome to the real world.  It's messy.  If you want certainty, go elsewhere.

Well now. Exactly how would you rate the person who made this post?

I have had quite a few colds (I had strep throat, and then a cold for 2 weeks, it sucked) since being on resv (and I rarely get sick). Since I have started taking 2,000 UI D3 which has things undercontrol. I was worried that resveratrol was acting as an immunesuppressent, but it might have been unrelated.

Here is a study on immune suppression effects of Resv:

Clin Exp Immunol. 2007 Jan;147(1):155-63.
Resveratrol and curcumin suppress immune response through CD28/CTLA-4 and CD80 co-stimulatory pathway.
Sharma S, Chopra K, Kulkarni SK, Agrewala JN.

    Immunology Laboratory, Institute of Microbial Technology, Chandigarh, India.
The role of resveratrol and curcumin is well documented in cancer, inflammation, diabetes and various other diseases. However, their immunosuppressive action on T cells, B cells and macrophages is not well documented. In the present study, we have ascertained the effect of resveratrol and curcumin on T and B cells and macrophages. The most striking findings were that both resveratrol and curcumin suppressed the activity of T and B cells and macrophages, as evidenced by significant inhibition in proliferation, antibody production and lymphokine secretion. Interestingly, curcumin imparted immunosuppression by mainly down-regulating the expression of CD28 and CD80 and up-regulating CTLA-4. Resveratrol also functioned by decreasing the expression of CD28 and CD80, as well as by augmenting the production of interleukin (IL)-10.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

[hormesis]

I get the sense browser that you're trying to imply that MaxWatt does not fairly evaluate or rate some contributors on the board. I apologize if my spider sense is off. The immune supression information is appreciated (although it might be better placed in another thread), but perhaps the other personal content might be better suited for a PM. I might even be so bold as to propose that this whole thread could benefit from such a practice going forward. Just my two cents and any further replies on this to me would be appreciated in PMs and apologies again if this turns out to be wasted bandwidth.

[maxwatt]

No, that is not the consensus.  That is one man's frustration at his own confusion, being unable to sort out the progression of ideas that has been presented here, or distinguish the misinformation some post here and elsewhere.  Hopefully the soon-to-be-implemented poster-rating-system will one day help readers sort things out.......Welcome to the real world.  It's messy.  If you want certainty, go elsewhere.

Well now. Exactly how would you rate the person who made this post?

I have had quite a few colds (I had strep throat, and then a cold for 2 weeks, it sucked) since being on resv (and I rarely get sick). Since I have started taking 2,000 UI D3 which has things undercontrol. I was worried that resveratrol was acting as an immunesuppressent, but it might have been unrelated.

Here is a study on immune suppression effects of Resv:

Clin Exp Immunol. 2007 Jan;147(1):155-63.
Resveratrol and curcumin suppress immune response through CD28/CTLA-4 and CD80 co-stimulatory pathway.
Sharma S, Chopra K, Kulkarni SK, Agrewala JN.

    Immunology Laboratory, Institute of Microbial Technology, Chandigarh, India.
The role of resveratrol and curcumin is well documented in cancer, inflammation, diabetes and various other diseases. However, their immunosuppressive action on T cells, B cells and macrophages is not well documented. In the present study, we have ascertained the effect of resveratrol and curcumin on T and B cells and macrophages. The most striking findings were that both resveratrol and curcumin suppressed the activity of T and B cells and macrophages, as evidenced by significant inhibition in proliferation, antibody production and lymphokine secretion. Interestingly, curcumin imparted immunosuppression by mainly down-regulating the expression of CD28 and CD80 and up-regulating CTLA-4. Resveratrol also functioned by decreasing the expression of CD28 and CD80, as well as by augmenting the production of interleukin (IL)-10.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

Lucid has made a good many objective and evidence-based contributions to various threads. BTW, I also have been supplementing with D3.

The following may elucidate effect of resveratrol on immune function:

Transplant Proc. 2005 Jun;37(5):2354-9. Links
Immunosuppression by combined use of cyclosporine and resveratrol in a rat liver transplantation model.Wu SL, Pan CE, Yu L, Meng KW.
Department of Hepatobiliary, No. 1 Hospital of Xi'an Jiaotong University, #1 Jianking Road, Xi'an City, Shaanxi Province 710061, People's Republic of China. shengliyili@hotmail.com

INTRODUCTION: Despite continued progress in the development of immunosuppressive agents, allograft rejection remains an important cause of morbidity and mortality after liver transplantation. We examined the effect of intraperitoneal injection of cyclosporine (CsA) and resveratrol (Res) on allograft rejection after liver transplantation in rats. METHODS: Male Sprague-Dawley rats were selected as donors and male Wistar rats as recipients for a rejection model. The recipients were divided into three groups after orthotopic liver transplantation (OLTx): in the combination group both Res (100 mg/kg) and CsA (20 mg/kg) were given by intraperitoneal route once a day, whereas in the CsA group or control group CsA (20 mg/kg) or vehicle buffer was given. The survival period, serum chemistry, production of some cytokines, activation of transcription factor NF- kappaB, and histopathological findings were then compared among them. RESULTS: The mean survival period after OLTx in the combination group was significantly longer than that in the CsA group or control group (P < .05 and P < .01). On posttransplant day 7, the serum albumin level significantly improved, the serum total bile acid and alanine aminotransferase levels were significantly lower, the serum interleukin-2 and interferon-gamma levels were significantly lower, and the activation of transcription factor NF-kappaB in peripheral blood T lymphocytes was significantly suppressed in the combination group in comparison with those in the CsA group (all P < .05) or control group (all P < .01), and a histological examination revealed apparent difference in the severity of rejection between the combination group and CsA group (P < .05) or control group (P < .01). CONCLUSION: The combined use of CsA and Res has a stronger immunosuppressive effect on hepatocytes under allograft rejection in comparison with the sole use of CsA. Res might serve as a novel supplementary immunosuppressive agent for reducing the severity of hepatic allograft rejection in rats.

PMID: 15964415

Res acts through suppressin of inflammation, by suppressing NF-KappaB. This is one known effect of SirT1 activation.

[niner]

Grape Powder Blocks Genes Linked To Colon Cancer

While the supplements did not have an impact on existing tumors, biopsied colon tissue showed that Wnt signaling in the patients taking 80 grams of grape powder was significantly reduced. Similar changes were not seen in patients taking the higher dose of grape powder or the resveratrol pills.

Well, hell, this is just about random. No dose response?

ps: Lucid's post was on topic. I think it was fine in this thread.

[lucid]

Hmm apparently my post has been graded... I don't understand why exactly, it seemed straight forward. Max commented on having fewer colds, I gave my personal experience and related a study I had read.

Have you had any positive results from taking resveratrol?
How much are you taking?
Has anybody else noticed a lower resistance?

I take 2g a day mixed with PEG and sometimes ETOH. I have also recently started taking it with milk on occasion.
I have lost 10 pounds since starting taking resv, but that is likely more attributed to more careful dieting and more rigorous exercise. I'm going to get blood work done soon which should say much more definitively whether I am benefiting.

[missminni]

Hmm apparently my post has been graded... I don't understand why exactly, it seemed straight forward. Max commented on having fewer colds, I gave my personal experience and related a study I had read.

Have you had any positive results from taking resveratrol?
How much are you taking?
Has anybody else noticed a lower resistance?

I take 2g a day mixed with PEG and sometimes ETOH. I have also recently started taking it with milk on occasion.
I have lost 10 pounds since starting taking resv, but that is likely more attributed to more careful dieting and more rigorous exercise. I'm going to get blood work done soon which should say much more definitively whether I am benefiting.

I thought your post was totally appropriate. Anyway,I don't know if you read
the resveratrol 500 thread,
http://www.imminst.o...20
but yesterday my Dad had excellent results with 300 mg. the minute he took it.
Previously he was taking 100 mg (jarrow's 100 - 20% res) three times a day with meals and got no result.
When he took 3 together first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, although he did have the laxative effect from the emodin,
he had total pain relief from his arthritis, which he usually takes a vicodan for on a daily basis. He is a die hard cynic so
I doubt its the placebo effect. He was pain free for 10 hours. I am getting him a purer product so he
can take it without the laxative effect. I can't handle the emodin when I take jarrow's 100 x 3, but I will be getting the powder
this week and let you know the difference I feel when i take it. I workout regularly so it will be interesting to see if
it increases endurance. I'm excited about it. Does it really have to show in your blood to prove it a benefit? Can't it just act as a catalyst for change
without having to show up in the blood? I don't have a science background so if I sound ignorant, forgive me.

[browser]

Hmm apparently my post has been graded... I don't understand why exactly, it seemed straight forward. Max commented on having fewer colds, I gave my personal experience and related a study I had read.

I used your post as an example of a sincere contributor to these fora that there are both pro and con results from resveratrol experiences and studies. It was not at all meant as an attempt to get you graded, but to fend off the pronouncement that things regarding resveratrol intake in humans are crystal clear and anyone who doesn't see it just can separate negative from positive reports, musings, hypotheses and statements.

[maxwatt]

Hmm apparently my post has been graded... I don't understand why exactly, it seemed straight forward. Max commented on having fewer colds, I gave my personal experience and related a study I had read.

Have you had any positive results from taking resveratrol?
How much are you taking?
Has anybody else noticed a lower resistance?

I take 2g a day mixed with PEG and sometimes ETOH. I have also recently started taking it with milk on occasion.
I have lost 10 pounds since starting taking resv, but that is likely more attributed to more careful dieting and more rigorous exercise. I'm going to get blood work done soon which should say much more definitively whether I am benefiting.

I thought your post was totally appropriate. Anyway,I don't know if you read
the resveratrol 500 thread,
http://www.imminst.o...20
but yesterday my Dad had excellent results with 300 mg. the minute he took it.
Previously he was taking 100 mg (jarrow's 100 - 20% res) three times a day with meals and got no result.
When he took 3 together first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, although he did have the laxative effect from the emodin,
he had total pain relief from his arthritis, which he usually takes a vicodan for on a daily basis. He is a die hard cynic so
I doubt its the placebo effect. He was pain free for 10 hours. I am getting him a purer product so he
can take it without the laxative effect. I can't handle the emodin when I take jarrow's 100 x 3, but I will be getting the powder
this week and let you know the difference I feel when i take it. I workout regularly so it will be interesting to see if
it increases endurance. I'm excited about it. Does it really have to show in your blood to prove it a benefit? Can't it just act as a catalyst for change
without having to show up in the blood? I don't have a science background so if I sound ignorant, forgive me.

Because maximum resveratrol blood levels in humans in one study, were about half that needed to kill cancer cells in a test tube in another study, some have incorrectly concluded that resveratrol cannot work in any context. The main effect life-exentionists have been looking for is activation of the sirtuin genes, on the theory this mimics at least some of the effects of caloric restriction. No one knows the necessary concentration to accomplish this in humans, but it is likely not an all-or-nothing effect. There are measurable serum levels in humans, so the odds look good there is sirtuin activation. Whether this is life extending or not, we will have to wait and see. The odds look a lot better than for many other things, and resveratrol is not toxic in any dose anyone has taken so far.

I'm glad your father feels better with 300 mg in a single dose. It's more like likely this is due to COX2 inhibition, a known effect of resveratrol, than to sirtuin activation. Judging by my own experience, he is likely to see further improvement over several weeks.

[bentl]

Luteolin: (Posted:  Nov 14 2007-08:22)
Hormesis discussed in his prior gargantuan post, the use of luteolin to increase resveratrol bioavailability.  I asked if luteolin also activated SirT1.  I can now answer my own question:YES!

I am in the processes of vetting a source of 98 and 99.9 per cent pure luteolin.

maxwatt, are you by any chance going to try Luteolin instead of t-res for awhile to test its' effectiveness?

[asnufu]

  No one knows the necessary concentration to accomplish this in humans, but it is likely not an all-or-nothing effect.  There are measurable serum levels in humans, so the odds look good there is sirtuin activation.

If true, this banishes a concern of mine; I was worried that indeed, it is an all-or-nothing effect: either you achieve threshold plasma levels or nothing happens. Maxwatt, what do you base your belief in a concentration dependent response on ?

[missminni]

Because maximum resveratrol blood levels in humans in one study, were about half that needed to kill cancer cells in a test tube in another study, some have incorrectly concluded that resveratrol cannot work in any context.  The main effect life-exentionists have been looking for is activation of the sirtuin genes, on the theory this mimics at least some of the effects of caloric restriction.  No one knows the necessary concentration to accomplish this in humans, but it is likely not an all-or-nothing effect.  There are measurable serum levels in humans, so the odds look good there is sirtuin activation.  Whether this is life extending or not, we will have to wait and see.  The odds look a lot better than for many other things, and resveratrol is not toxic in any dose anyone has taken so far. 

I'm glad your father feels better with 300 mg in a single dose.  It's more like likely this is due to COX2 inhibition, a known effect of resveratrol, than to sirtuin activation.  Judging by my own experience, he is likely to see further improvement over several weeks.

How much resveratrol was necessary to kill the cancer cells?
Is the amount of res needed to kill cancer cells the same as the amount that would prevent them from forming?
I would imagine that once cancer cells are reproducing in the body, it would make sense to take resveratrol intravenously at
the necessary strength to kill the cells. Is it that simple?

As for my Dad, he didn't have the same success the following day, which he attributes to the fact that he took less magnesium
the night before than he did the first time. Who knows. I am sure that is not the reason, buy since my Dad knows everything
concerning "his body" he is now doing his own experiment by taking more magnesium to see if he duplicates
the initial result. He will switch to the R300 as soon as he gets them, hopefully this week, and take two at a time, so maybe he will
have more consistent resuts then.

maxwatt - Judging by my own experience, he is likely to see further improvement over several weeks.

Is it a cumulative effect?